The Changelog: Software Development, Open Source

Jerod is joined by Carson Gross, the creator of htmx –a small, zero-dependency JavaScript library that he says, “completes HTML as a hypertext”. Carson built it because he’s big on hypermedia, he even wrote a book called Hypermedia Systems. Carson has a lot of strong opinions weakly held that we dive into in this conversation. Join the discussion [https://changelog.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/456187-interviews] Changelog++ [https://changelog.com/++] members save 6 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today! Sponsors: * Retool [https://retool.com/agents] – Assemble your elite AI team, arm them with powerful custom tools, and watch them make your to-do list disappear. Start for free or book a demo at retool.com/agents [https://retool.com/agents] * Depot [https://depot.dev] – 10x faster builds? Yes please. Build faster. Waste less time. Accelerate Docker image builds, and GitHub Actions workflows. Easily integrate with your existing CI provider and dev workflows to save hours of build time. * Outshift by Cisco [https://agntcy.org] – AGNTCY is an open source collective building the Internet of Agents. It’s a collaboration layer where AI agents can communicate, discover each other, and work across frameworks. For developers, this means standardized agent discovery tools, seamless protocols for inter-agent communication, and modular components to compose and scale multi-agent workflows. Featuring: * Carson Gross – GitHub [https://github.com/chg20], X [https://x.com/htmx_org] * Jerod Santo – GitHub [https://github.com/jerodsanto], LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerodsanto], Mastodon [https://changelog.social/@jerod], X [https://x.com/jerodsanto] Show Notes: * htmx - high power tools for html [https://htmx.org/] * Why Gumroad Didn’t Choose htmx [https://htmx.org/essays/why-gumroad-didnt-choose-htmx/] * Codin’ Dirty [https://htmx.org/essays/codin-dirty/] * Vendoring [https://htmx.org/essays/vendoring/] * Hypermedia Systems [https://hypermedia.systems/] Something missing or broken? PRs welcome! [https://github.com/thechangelog/show-notes/blob/master/podcast/the-changelog-646.md]

Lukas Mathis tells us to stop uploading our data to Google, Robert Vitonsky wants web devs to not guess his language using his IP, Tom from GameTorch reminds us that software talent is gold right now, Austin Parker from Honeycomb describes how LLMs are upending the observability industry, and Vitess co-creator, Sugu Sougoumarane, joins Supabase to lead their Multigres effort to bring Vitess to Postgres. View the newsletter [https://changelog.com/news/149/email] Join the discussion [https://changelog.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/455469-news] Changelog++ [https://changelog.com/++] members save 1 minute on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today! Sponsors: * Fly.io [https://fly.io/] – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps close to your users — global Anycast load-balancing, zero-configuration private networking, hardware isolation, and instant WireGuard VPN connections. Push-button deployments that scale to thousands of instances. Check out the speedrun [https://fly.io/speedrun/] to get started in minutes. Featuring: * Jerod Santo – GitHub [https://github.com/jerodsanto], LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerodsanto], Mastodon [https://changelog.social/@jerod], X [https://x.com/jerodsanto]

Justin Searls joins Jerod in Apple’s WWDC wake for hot takes about frosty UIs. We go (almost) point-by-point through the keynote, dissecting and reacting along the way. Concentricity! Join the discussion [https://changelog.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/455613-friends] Changelog++ [https://changelog.com/++] members save 5 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today! Sponsors: * Retool [https://retool.com/agents] – Assemble your elite AI team, arm them with powerful custom tools, and watch them make your to-do list disappear. Start for free or book a demo at retool.com/agents [https://retool.com/agents] * Fly.io [https://fly.io/] – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps close to your users — global Anycast load-balancing, zero-configuration private networking, hardware isolation, and instant WireGuard VPN connections. Push-button deployments that scale to thousands of instances. Check out the speedrun [https://fly.io/speedrun/] to get started in minutes. Featuring: * Justin Searls – Website [https://justin.searls.co/], GitHub [https://github.com/searls], Mastodon [https://mastodon.social/@searls], X [https://x.com/searls] * Jerod Santo – GitHub [https://github.com/jerodsanto], LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerodsanto], Mastodon [https://changelog.social/@jerod], X [https://x.com/jerodsanto] Show Notes: * Apple WWDC 2025 Keynote [https://www.rev.com/transcripts/apple-wwdc-2025-keynote] These 4 Code Snippets won WWDC [https://justin.searls.co/posts/these-4-code-snippets-won-wwdc/] * Apple to Let iPhone Users Watch Videos on CarPlay Screen While Parked [https://www.macrumors.com/2025/06/12/carplay-airplay-video-in-the-car/] Something missing or broken? PRs welcome! [https://github.com/thechangelog/show-notes/blob/master/friends/changelog--friends-97.md]

Jerod chats with Richard Feldman about Roc – his fast, friendly, functional language inspired by Richard’s love of Elm. Roc takes many of Elm’s ideas beyond the frontend and introduces some great ideas of its own. Get ready to learn about static dispatch, platforms vs applications, opportunistic mutation, purity inference, and a whole lot more. Join the discussion [https://changelog.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/456187-interviews] Changelog++ [https://changelog.com/++] members save 6 minutes on this episode because they made the ads disappear. Join today! Sponsors: * Retool [https://retool.com/agents] – Assemble your elite AI team, arm them with powerful custom tools, and watch them make your to-do list disappear. Start for free or book a demo at retool.com/agents [https://retool.com/agents] * Fly.io [https://fly.io/] – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps close to your users — global Anycast load-balancing, zero-configuration private networking, hardware isolation, and instant WireGuard VPN connections. Push-button deployments that scale to thousands of instances. Check out the speedrun [https://fly.io/speedrun/] to get started in minutes. Featuring: * Richard Feldman – GitHub [https://github.com/rtfeldman], X [https://x.com/rtfeldman] * Jerod Santo – GitHub [https://github.com/jerodsanto], LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerodsanto], Mastodon [https://changelog.social/@jerod], X [https://x.com/jerodsanto] Show Notes: * The Roc Programming Language [https://www.roc-lang.org/] * Roc Zulip Chat [https://roc.zulipchat.com/] * Software Unscripted [https://pod.link/1602572955] * Elm [https://elm-lang.org/] Something missing or broken? PRs welcome! [https://github.com/thechangelog/show-notes/blob/master/podcast/the-changelog-645.md]

Diwank explains why you should never let AI writes your tests, Apple redesigns all of their software platforms, AI has brought about the rise of judgement over technical skills, Peter Steinberger says Claude Code is now his computer, and the curious case of Memvid. View the newsletter [https://changelog.com/news/148/email] Join the discussion [https://changelog.zulipchat.com/#narrow/stream/455469-news] Changelog++ [https://changelog.com/++] members support our work, get closer to the metal, and make the ads disappear. Join today! Sponsors: * Fly.io [https://fly.io/] – The home of Changelog.com — Deploy your apps close to your users — global Anycast load-balancing, zero-configuration private networking, hardware isolation, and instant WireGuard VPN connections. Push-button deployments that scale to thousands of instances. Check out the speedrun [https://fly.io/speedrun/] to get started in minutes. Featuring: * Jerod Santo – GitHub [https://github.com/jerodsanto], LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerodsanto], Mastodon [https://changelog.social/@jerod], X [https://x.com/jerodsanto]