The Nonviolent Jesus

#80. John Dear in conversation with author and theologian Fr. Ron Rolheiser: " In my lifetime I've never lived through darker days."

“My mantra now is, ‘Let it go, let it go, let it go,’” theologian Ron Rolheiser tells John Dear On today’s episode I speak with my friend writer and theologian, Fr. Ron Rolheiser, one of the most popular Catholic writers in the world, about his new book, Insane for the Light: A Spirituality for Our Wisdom Years, the conclusion of his trilogy of modern spiritual classics, following The Holy Longing and Sacred Fire. Fr. Ron Rolheiser is the author of many other best-sellers including The Restless Heart, The Shattered Lantern, Forgotten Among the Lilies; Prayer; and The Passion and the Cross. Orbis published an anthology, Ron Rolheiser: Essential Spiritual Writings. He recently retired from his position as President of the Oblate School of Theology in San Antonio, Texas, but continues to write, teach and speak around the country. You can learn more about him at his website: www.ronrolheiser.com [http://www.ronrolheiser.com] Speaking about a spirituality for our wisdom years, Ron invites us to address anger, and other forms of resentment and bitterness, and let it go into softness, forgiveness, and gratitude. “I've spent most of the years of my life in leadership and now nobody's asking for my opinion,” he says. “Letting go of control is difficult. As my health deteriorates, I have to learn to let go. My mantra now is, ‘let it go, let it go, let it go.’ But as I move from full time activity into passivity, I’m asking myself, ‘Who am I when I stop doing? When you're God's beloved, how do we actually own that?’” “In my lifetime I've never lived through darker days,” he adds. “We're trying to solve violence with violence, but violence begets violence. Politicians are openly saying that compassion is weakness. We've never needed the message of nonviolence more than now. "The Sermon on the Mount is the greatest moral code ever written. We have to be the ones who stand up and live in hope! To do that, we have to keep a subversive sense of humor.” Listen in to this great wisdom teacher and be inspired! beatitudescenter.org [http://beatitudescenter.org] ronrolheiser.com [http://ronrolheiser.com] 🌻, John

#79. John Dear in conversation with scripture scholar and author Wes Howard-Brook: "We're faced with the choice between the religion of empire or the religion of creation."

On today’s new episode of “The Nonviolent Jesus Podcast,” I speak with my friend scripture scholar Wes Howard-Brook, author of several great books, including his commentary on the Gospel of John, Becoming Children of God. He also has a free YouTube channel “The Radical Bible,” his study of the Bible as a whole called, Come Out My People!: God’s Call out of Empire in the Bible and Beyond. He also just published a smaller, more accessible version of it called: Creation or Empire: A Choice of Religions in the Bible and Beyond. He tells us: "The Bible is not a bunch of rules or a bunch of pull quotes." “Most Christians treat the Bible like someone who's been on a one-week tourist trip with a bad tour guide, which is to say, they've gotten a superficial overview and had it interpreted wrongly, and then concluded, ‘Why would I want to go there again?’ he says. “The heart of my work is trying to re-establish a passion for biblical literacy, because as all indigenous cultures know, as a people, you are the stories that carry you forward. “The Bible is a set of narratives, poems, proverbs, and other texts that were written by our Israelite and Judean ancestors to get their children to grapple with one central question: what kind of people does God intend us to be? “The Bible proposes two choices: the religion of creation and the religion of empire. Jesus enters into that 2,000 year old argument among his people: are we to be a powerful empire in the name of God, centered in Jerusalem, to which all the nations will stream and bow down to us and our God? Or is creation the temple; do we find the Creator in the creation, and every created being is part of that? Jesus plainly and explicitly sides with the religion of creation and resists empire.” We were so inspired by this Bible scholar to find the Creator in creation and resist empire! Find his book here [https://orbisbooks.com/products/creation-or-empire-a-choice-of-religions-in-the-bible-and-beyond?srsltid=AfmBOopeLSegTYnjRLDHy_1hopSYuZxKK70sq3Zh8PsNkbgbB7eUfZta] Sign up for more podcasts and interactive zooms here beatitudescenter.org [http://beatitudescenter.org] IG @thenonviolentjesus Connect with me on Substack @FatherJohnDear 🌻, John

#78. John Dear with theologian/author/activist Lisa Sharon Harper: "We were three floors below ground, it was hot and the walls and floor were covered with roaches."

Today I speak with my friend Lisa Sharon Harper. Lisa is a theologian, speaker, author, activist and trainer who has worked in Ferguson and Charlottesville, as well as South Africa, Brazil, Australia, Ireland and across the U.S. Her 2022 book, Fortune: How Race Broke My Family And The World--And How To Repair It All, was named “Book of the Year” by Word and Way. Her 2016 book, The Very Good Gospel, was named “Book of the Year” by the Englewood Review of Books. After her leadership at Sojourners [https://sojo.net/] magazine, she founded Freedom Road [https://freedomroad.us/], where she is the host of its podcast and column on Substack. The Huffington Post named her one of 50 Women Religious Leaders to Celebrate on International Women’s Day. (See: ) When I asked her about these days of social injustice, white supremacy and permanent warmaking under Trump, she spoke of crying every die. “I actually have hope but I'm grieving like the rest of the country,” she said. “I cry because of the Church's silence during the Obama era and back to the 70s/80s during the rise of the religious right. People didn't know what was right, just and Jesus's way…Evil is embedded in the Constitution and in the 3/4 compromise. I grieve for our inaction in the past. It didn't have to be this way, but in every generation, there is a remnant. There has always been a witness of the actual Jesus way of being in the world." "Right now, that witness is alive and well.” She told three stories: 1. Her time in Ferguson in August, 2014 after Michael Brown was killed by a white policeman; 2. Her time in Charlottesville, VA, when she was present in the protest against Trump’s neo-Nazis who killed Heather Heyer; 3. Our experience when we were arrested and in the D.C. Central Cell block jail after protesting at the Supreme Court on the 40th anniversary of the U.S. death penalty. She shares about her organization, Freedom Road, which trains people of faith to take public action for justice, as well as her recent best-selling books and why she wrote them. “Nonviolence is the only way for people who are not on the upside of empire to fight back,” she concludes. "Nonviolence is the only way to not be at war with God.” Listen in and be inspired by this peacemaker to carry on! Lisa Sharon Harper [https://lisasharonharper.com/] Follow Lisa on Substack [https://substack.com/@lisasharonharper] www.freedomroad.us [http://www.freedomroad.us] beatitudescenter.org [http://beatitudescenter.org] Follow me on Substack [https://substack.com/@fatherjohndear] 🌻, John

#77 John Dear in conversation with Zoughbi Zoughbi of Bethlehem, Palestine: "The West Bank is a prison, Gaza is a concentration camp."

Today I speak with one of the great peacemakers of our time, my friend Zoughbi Zoughbi of Bethlehem, Palestine. Zoughbi is a lifelong Catholic Palestinian activist, organizer and teacher of Gospel nonviolence. Long ago he founded the Wi’am Center, the Palestinian Conflict Transformation Center in the center of Bethlehem. Wi'am is widely recognized as a place of nonviolent conflict resolution that helps Palestinians in the day to day struggle for justice and peace (www.alaslah.org [http://www.alaslah.org]) For the last few years, he has also served as the president of the International Fellowship of Reconciliation, which is the oldest peace group in the world (www.ifor.org [http://www.ifor.org]). Whenever you think you are working too hard for justice and peace, remember Zoughbi! “This is the first time in history that Bethlehem and Jerusalem are separated, that you cannot travel between them,” he says. “We are living in reservations, separated from each other. Bethlehem is becoming a smaller reservation surrounded by 23 settlements and many outposts. The West Bank is a prison; Gaza is a concentration camp. Every day, we see more prisoners, houses being demolished, state violence, settler violence, environmental violence. The situation is moving from worse to the worst.” “I want my people to live their life and know their rights, to work for a culture of acceptance, to resolve conflict nonviolently. We are exposing the atrocities of the Occupation, and ask people to be in solidarity for us. We are all global citizens of a global world. I want all Christian brothers and sisters to walk in our shoes. Come and visit! Stop aiding and supporting Israel, its weapons, wars and occupation. "I don't want the Holy Land to become a museum without people.” When asked about the International Fellowship of Reconciliation, he says, “Our dream is to educate all children in the world in peace and nonviolence, to get all religious leaders to preach the refusal of war, terrorism and violence, to get everyone to work for a world without war and nuclear weapons.” Zoughbi reminds us of how Jesus was during Roman occupation: “Jesus was soft on people, but hard on the system,” he concludes. “He asks us to love each other and to struggle against injustice…. Be the salt, the yeast and the light… Hope for me is a form of nonviolent struggle. We are going to become the Beloved Community one day!” Listen to the voice of a Palestinian peacemaker in Bethlehem speaking words of encouragement for all of us and be transformed! beatitudescenter.org [http://beatitudescenter.org] https://substack.com/@fatherjohndear [https://substack.com/@fatherjohndear] 🌻, John

#76 John Dear with Mel Duncan, co-founder of Nonviolent Peaceforce about his work all over the world, more recently in Palestine and St. Paul, MN: "Organized nonviolence led to ICE leaving Minneapolis."

Dear friends, This week I speak with one of the great peacemakers of our times, my friend Mel Duncan about unarmed civilian protectors and the Nonviolent Peaceforce that has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2016. Mel has been a leader in developing the practice of unarmed civilian protection for over two decades: He started providing nonviolent protective presence along Nicaragua’s northern border in 1984 during the Contra war. In 2002 along with David Hartsough and Mary Lou Ott he co-founded Nonviolent Peaceforce nonviolentpeaceforce.org [http://www.nonviolentpeaceforce.org] Nonviolent Peaceforce’s “nonviolent civilian protectors” provide direct protection to civilians caught in violent conflict and work with local groups to prevent further violence and sustain peace in a variety of conflict areas including South Sudan, Ukraine, the Philippines and the United States. Mel has represented Nonviolent Peaceforce at the United Nations where the group has been granted Consultative Status. Recent UN global reviews as well as Security Council and General Assembly Resolutions have cited and recommended unarmed civilian protection. The American Friends Service Committee nominated Nonviolent Peaceforce for the 2016 Nobel Peace Prize. In 2018 Nonviolent Peaceforce received the Luxembourg Peace Prize. Since retiring in 2023, Mel has helped organize a team of unarmed civilian protectors who are now working in Palestine as “Unarmed Civilian Protection.” He worked there for six months in 2025. For the past few months during the ICE occupation, he has been providing protective presence in St. Paul where he lives. When I asked about Palestine, he said, “The violence has intensified greatly since the attacks on Iran and Lebanon. It's provided a cover for Israelis to brutally attack Palestinian civilians. What can people do? As Rabbi Abraham Heschel said, we pray with our feet. Know that the Kingdom of God is here and now; it's a consciousness in all of us. Even when it's hopeless, we can continue on.” Mel tells us how thousands of people over the last 25 years have learned Nonviolent Peaceforce skills to take back to their own communities. There are now over 60 other civil society groups now doing this kind of work in 24 areas of the world. Mel says: "We stress the two hand approach: we resist the injustice with one hand while we reach out to the humanity in every one of us with the other.” Listen in and be inspired to step up your Gospel nonviolence! ucpip.org [https://www.ucpip.org/] beatitudescenter.org [http://beatitudescenter.org] 🌻, John