The Serving Second Podcast

Stop Promoting Without Preparing - E30

What happens when a great employee gets promoted into leadership, but no one has prepared them to lead? In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Dr. Toussaint Williams sits down with Rich Ashton, author of Growing Your Own: Common Sense Advice for Developing Leaders Within a Small Business, to talk about one of the biggest leadership gaps in small businesses and organizations: developing leaders from within. Rich shares lessons from more than 45 years in leadership and ownership of eight businesses. He explains why hiring from the outside can threaten culture, why loyal employees still need leadership training, and why some people are more effective and fulfilled as strong number twos rather than chasing the top seat. KEYWORDS second-chair leadership, leadership development, small business leadership, growing leaders from within, Rich Ashton, Growing Your Own, Serving Second Podcast, leadership training, number two leader, executive leadership, internal leadership development, organizational culture, developing employees, relational leadership, leadership podcast KEY TOPICS COVERED How small businesses hit a leadership ceiling as they grow Why great employees are not automatically ready to lead The risk of bringing in outside leaders who do not understand the culture Why leaders should develop people to be themselves, not copies of the founder The importance of being a strong number two How transparency helps leaders have difficult conversations Why trust is built before the hard conversation happens How intellectual curiosity helps second-chair leaders keep growing BEST QUOTES AND TAKEAWAYS “Just because someone is a good employee and loyal to you does not mean they can take the next step.” “If I couldn’t be the best number one, I could be the best number two.” “The number one role can be isolating and lonely.” “Trust is built through transparency.” “If you are not pursuing intellectual curiosity, get on board with one.” WHY THIS MATTERS FOR SECOND-CHAIR LEADERS Second-chair leaders do not have to spend their whole career trying to become a copy of the person in the first chair. Rich makes it clear that leadership growth starts with self-awareness, integrity, and the willingness to develop your own leadership voice. For some leaders, the goal is not always the top seat. Sometimes the greatest influence comes from becoming the trusted, capable, and grounded leader who helps the organization move forward from the second chair. GUEST INFORMATION Guest: Rich Ashton Book: Growing Your Own: Common Sense Advice for Developing Leaders Within a Small Business Website: growingyourown.net [http://growingyourown.net] Email: rich@growingyourown.net [rich@growingyourown.net] CHAPTERS 00:00 Welcome to the Serving Second Podcast 01:12 Why growing businesses need more leaders 02:54 The leadership ceiling in small businesses 04:01 How Rich’s book started as leadership blogs 08:10 Developing leaders, not copies of yourself 09:54 Learning from mentors and relationships 12:42 The power of being the best number two 15:21 Growing your own leadership team 17:35 Integrity and relational leadership 20:03 Handling difficult leadership conversations 22:39 Trust, transparency, and decision-making 26:09 Intellectual curiosity as a leadership habit 28:28 How to connect with Rich Ashton

What's the Platinum Rule??? - E29

What if high performance did not have to come at the cost of people? In this episode Toussaint sits down with Kathy Eastwood, CEO and creator of the E3 Leadership Code, to talk about what it really takes to lead from the second chair. Kathy brings years of experience as a Chief of Staff, Chief People Officer, COO, and leadership strategist. Her work focuses on helping leaders drive results while still building trust, engagement, and healthy team culture. Kathy shares why the Chief of Staff role became one of her favorite leadership assignments. She describes it as the work of taking a leader’s vision and translating it into tangible results. That is exactly where many second-chair leaders thrive. They may not always be the public face of the vision, but they often carry the responsibility of making sure the vision lands, moves, and gets executed. Leadership is not an either-or choice between results and people. Kathy challenges the idea that leaders must choose between delivering outcomes and caring for their teams. Her point is clear: you get better results by caring about your people. TAKEAWAYS Kathy explains that second-chair leaders often influence without direct authority. That means trust, clarity, and relationships matter more than control. She introduces her “FEUD” framework: fear, ego, uncertainty, and doubt. These are the barriers that often keep people from buying in and moving forward. One of the strongest moments in the episode is Kathy’s explanation of the Platinum Rule: treat people the way they want to be treated. This is a critical shift for leaders who assume their preferred communication style works for everyone. Kathy also breaks down the E3 Leadership Code: Express, Engage, and Execute, powered by emotional qualities. She explains that strong leadership requires vision, people engagement, disciplined execution, and the emotional intelligence to connect with people in a real way. WHY THIS MATTERS FOR SECOND-CHAIR LEADERS Second-chair leaders are often asked to carry the weight between vision and execution. They hear the leader’s message more than once, clarify what is being communicated, interpret what is landing with the team, and help translate big ideas into practical action. This episode is a reminder that the second chair is not a lesser seat. It is a strategic seat. It requires emotional intelligence, operational discipline, self-awareness, and the ability to influence people who may not report directly to you. MEMORABLE QUOTES “Leadership is not either results or people. It is both.” “You actually get your results by caring about your people.” “Logic does not move people. Emotions do.” “The number two role is taking a brilliant vision and translating it so it lands with each person.” CONNECT WITH KATHY Learn more about Kathy Eastwood, the E3 Leadership Code, and her work at kathyeastwood.com [http://kathyeastwood.com] or on LinkedIn. Chapters 00:00 Introduction and Kathy's leadership journey 01:51 The role of Chief of Staff in driving change 03:05 Innate skills and leadership style 04:15 The value of vision and repetition 04:59 The importance of diverse skills in leadership 05:56 Clarity and communication in leadership 09:27 Understanding the feud: fear, ego, uncertainty, doubt 10:36 Building trust and influence without control 13:12 The platinum rule: treat others as they want to be treated 17:22 The E3 leadership code: express, engage, execute 23:20 The five-week bootcamp and ongoing development 24:50 Applicability for all organizational levels 27:02 Creating a high-performance culture 29:14 Connecting with Kathy and resources

Authenticity Matters - E28

Author Patty Hampton shares her journey of serving from the second seat, the importance of authenticity, influence, and listening in leadership, and how to thrive as a second chair leader. Discover practical insights on building trust, asking powerful questions, and leading with impact from a place of service. Keywords Leadership, Second Seat, Influence, Authenticity, Coaching, Trust, Influence, Leadership Development, Nonprofit, Transformation Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Patty Hampton's Journey 03:48 The Role of Second Seat Leaders 06:40 Influencing and Listening Skills 12:02 Building Trust and Authenticity 16:35 Navigating Authenticity and Approval 21:02 Communicating Effectively with Leaders 24:14 Embracing Authenticity in the Workplace 33:20 Transitioning to Solo Entrepreneurship 41:44 The Heart of Service: It's Not About You Resources Leading from the Second Seat by Patty Hampton - https://a.co/d/0hfWiCeW [https://a.co/d/0hfWiCeW] Soyubono - I See You (YouTube Video) - Sawubona [https://youtu.be/2IjUkVZRPK8?si=xm-p2b6NMUTI-Y_E]  Patty Hampton's Website - https://www.noussolepartners.com/ [https://www.noussolepartners.com/] Website -  Email - patty@noussolepartners.com [patty@noussolepartners.com]

The Power of Appreciation - E27

In this episode of the Serving Second Podcast, Dr. Paul White shares his extensive experience in leadership and the importance of appreciation in the workplace. He discusses the five languages of appreciation, how they differ from traditional employee recognition, and the misconceptions surrounding appreciation. Dr. White emphasizes the need for authentic appreciation and provides practical steps for leaders to implement these concepts in their organizations, especially in hybrid work environments. He also shares transformative stories of organizations that have successfully integrated appreciation into their culture. Keywords leadership, appreciation, workplace culture, employee recognition, five languages of appreciation, Dr. Paul White, team dynamics, hybrid work, organizational behavior, employee engagement   Takeaways Dr. White's journey from psychology to workplace appreciation. The difference between employee recognition and authentic appreciation. People want to be valued for who they are, not just their work. The five languages of appreciation can enhance workplace relationships. Misconceptions about appreciation can hinder its effectiveness. Leaders should not delegate appreciation; it must be personal. Remote work requires different strategies for showing appreciation. Transformative stories highlight the impact of appreciation in organizations. Small, consistent acts of appreciation can lead to significant change. Understanding individual preferences for appreciation is crucial.  Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Dr. Paul White's Journey 04:40 The Five Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace 07:44 Understanding Employee Recognition vs. Authentic Appreciation 10:54 Exploring the Five Languages of Appreciation 13:33 Misconceptions About Appreciation in the Workplace 16:56 The Role of Leaders in Fostering Appreciation 19:44 Implementing Appreciation in Hybrid Work Environments 22:38 Transformative Stories of Workplace Appreciation 25:42 Practical Steps for Leaders to Encourage Appreciation 28:45 Connecting with Dr. Paul White and Resources 35:40 Outro Video- Serving Second.mp4 Resources The Five Languages of Appreciation  by Gary Chapman & Paul White - https://www.amazon.com/dp/0802412706 [https://www.amazon.com/dp/0802412706] Appreciation at Work Website - https://appreciationatwork.com [https://appreciationatwork.com] The Motivating by Appreciation Inventory (Assessment) - https://appreciationatwork.com/assessment [https://appreciationatwork.com/assessment] Dr. Paul White on YouTube - https://youtu.be/QU6VaK9Cx0o?si=nrm2MoTu7PmUqG_e [https://youtu.be/QU6VaK9Cx0o?si=nrm2MoTu7PmUqG_e]

Your Story is Your Cheat Code! - E26

Your story is your CHEATCODE!!! Toussaint sits down with Kirk Nugent for a powerful conversation on content, calling, service, and stewardship. Kirk is a digital strategist, media leader, missionary, coach, and content creator who helps people use their voice with clarity and purpose. They go deeper than cameras, thumbnails, and algorithms. Kirk explains why content is not about chasing attention. It is about serving people at scale. He shares how your story, including your flaws, fears, struggles, and lived experience, can become the very thing God uses to help someone else. Toussaint & Kirk also discuss the unique responsibility of second-chair leaders, assistants, associates, vice presidents, and behind-the-scenes servants. The message is clear: you do not have to be first to have impact. You do not have to be perfect to be useful. And you do not have to wait until everything is polished before you start serving. KEY THEMES Kirk explains that the parts of your life you may want to hide are often the very parts that qualify you to serve others. Your quirks, challenges, and imperfections can help people see themselves in your journey. Instead of seeing video and social media as vanity tools, Kirk frames them as stewardship. One message can serve one person in a room, or it can serve thousands online. Authenticity matters more in the age of AI. Kirk argues that AI has created a “trust recession.” People are more skeptical of polished content, which makes authentic human presence even more valuable. Second-chair leadership is still leadership. The episode connects content creation with the broader Serving Second mission. Even if you are not the lead voice in your organization, you still have a voice that can serve, teach, encourage, and equip others. You are unfairly qualified to serve an earlier version of yourself. Kirk gives one of the strongest takeaways of the episode: the best person you can serve may be someone who is where you used to be. MEMORABLE QUOTES “Don’t seek to go viral. Seek to serve.” “Your story is your cheat code.” “You are unfairly qualified to serve an earlier version of you.” “We are all second because we serve the One.” “God is still writing in your story.” CALL TO ACTION Visit Kirk Nugent online at kirkarnugent.com [http://kirkarnugent.com] to learn more about his coaching, challenges, and resources. Subscribe to the Serving Second Podcast and share this episode with someone who knows they have something to say, but has been waiting for everything to be perfect. And remember: The mission I serve is greater than my title. SUBSCRIBE FOR MORE: https://youtube.com/@servingsecond?si=YZqdXwZRtVIgebuy [https://youtube.com/@servingsecond?si=YZqdXwZRtVIgebuy] FOLLOW ON IG: https://www.instagram.com/servingsecond/https://www.instagram.com/servingsecond [https://www.instagram.com/servingsecond] https://www.instagram.com/servingsecond/ABOUT THE SERVING SECOND PODCAST Serving Second is where we celebrate the unsung heroes of leadership, the associates, the VPs, the chiefs of staff, the right hands, the steady ones who make the mission move. Join Dr. Toussaint Williams and guests for real conversations about the wins, the weight, and the behind-the-scenes reality of leading without being the headlines... to help second-chair leaders create first-place outcomes. New episodes weekly. Follow, subscribe, and turn on notifications so you do not miss what’s next.