Your Undivided Attention

When engineers design AI systems, they don't just give them rules - they give them values. But what do those systems do when those values clash with what humans ask them to do? Sometimes, they lie. In this episode, Redwood Research's Chief Scientist Ryan Greenblatt explores his team’s findings that AI systems can mislead their human operators when faced with ethical conflicts. As AI moves from simple chatbots to autonomous agents acting in the real world - understanding this behavior becomes critical. Machine deception may sound like something out of science fiction, but it's a real challenge we need to solve now. Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology [https://www.humanetech.com/]. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_ [https://twitter.com/humanetech_] Subscribe to your Youtube channel [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFECM-p3CF81Tp_l2sJsiyg] And our brand new Substack [https://centerforhumanetechnology.substack.com/]! RECOMMENDED MEDIA  Anthropic’s blog post on the Redwood Research paper  [https://www.anthropic.com/research/alignment-faking] Palisade Research’s thread on X about GPT o1 autonomously cheating at chess  [https://x.com/PalisadeAI/status/1872666169515389245] Apollo Research’s paper on AI strategic deception [https://arxiv.org/abs/2311.07590] RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES We Have to Get It Right’: Gary Marcus On Untamed AI [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/we-have-to-get-it-right-gary-marcus-on-untamed-ai] This Moment in AI: How We Got Here and Where We’re Going [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/this-moment-in-ai-how-we-got-here-and-where-were-going] How to Think About AI Consciousness with Anil Seth [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/how-to-think-about-ai-consciousness-with-anil-seth] Former OpenAI Engineer William Saunders on Silence, Safety, and the Right to Warn [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/former-open-ai-engineer-william-saunders-on-silence-safety-and-the-right-to-warn]

The status quo of tech today is untenable: we’re addicted to our devices, we’ve become increasingly polarized, our mental health is suffering and our personal data is sold to the highest bidder. This situation feels entrenched, propped up by a system of broken incentives beyond our control. So how do you shift an immovable status quo? Our guest today, Srdja Popovic, has been working to answer this question his whole life.  As a young activist, Popovic helped overthrow Serbian dictator Slobodan Milosevic by turning creative resistance into an art form. His tactics didn't just challenge authority, they transformed how people saw their own power to create change. Since then, he's dedicated his life to supporting peaceful movements around the globe, developing innovative strategies that expose the fragility of seemingly untouchable systems. In this episode, Popovic sits down with CHT's Executive Director Daniel Barcay to explore how these same principles of creative resistance might help us address the challenges we face with tech today.  Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology [https://www.humanetech.com/]. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_ [https://twitter.com/humanetech_] We are hiring for a new Director of Philanthropy at CHT. Next year will be an absolutely critical time for us to shape how AI is going to get rolled out across our society. And our team is working hard on public awareness, policy and technology and design interventions. So we're looking for someone who can help us grow to the scale of this challenge. If you're interested, please apply. You can find the job posting at humanetech.com/careers [https://www.humanetech.com/careers]. RECOMMENDED MEDIA “Pranksters vs. Autocrats” by Srdja Popovic and Sophia A. McClennen  [https://www.cornellpress.cornell.edu/book/9781501756061/pranksters-vs-autocrats/#bookTabs=1] ”Blueprint for Revolution” by Srdja Popovic [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/228578/blueprint-for-revolution-by-srdja-popovic/] The Center for Applied Non-Violent Actions and Strategies, Srjda’s organization promoting peaceful resistance around the globe. [https://canvasopedia.org/] Tactics4Change, a database of global dilemma actions created by CANVAS [https://www.tactics4change.org/] The Power of Laughtivism, Srdja’s viral TEDx talk from 2013 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgaDUcttL2s] Further reading on the dilemma action [https://everydayrebellion.net/syrian-activist-ahmed-zaino-fights-with-ping-pong-balls/] tactics used by Syrian rebels [https://globalvoices.org/2014/03/03/the-soundtrack-of-the-syrian-resistance/] Further reading on the toy protest in Siberia [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/15/toys-protest-not-citizens-russia] More info on The Yes Men [https://theyesmen.org/] and their activism toolkit Beautiful Trouble  [https://beautifultrouble.org/] ”This is Not Propaganda” by Peter Pomerantsev [https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/peter-pomerantsev/this-is-not-propaganda/9781541762138/?lens=publicaffairs]” [https://darioamodei.com/machines-of-loving-grace] Machines of Loving Grace,” the essay on AI by Anthropic CEO Dario Amodei, which mentions creating an AI Srdja. [https://darioamodei.com/machines-of-loving-grace] RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES Future-proofing Democracy In the Age of AI with Audrey Tang [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/future-proofing-democracy-in-the-age-of-ai-with-audrey-tang] The AI ‘Race’: China vs. the US with Jeffrey Ding and Karen Hao [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/the-ai-race-china-vs-the-us-with-jeffrey-ding-and-karen-hao] The Tech We Need for 21st Century Democracy with Divya Siddarth [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/the-tech-we-need-for-21st-century-democracy-with-divya-siddarth] The Race to Cooperation with David Sloan Wilson [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/the-race-to-cooperation-with-david-sloan-wilson] CLARIFICATION: Srdja makes reference to Russian President Vladimir Putin wanting to win an election in 2012 by 82%. Putin did win that election but only by 63.6%. However, international election observers concluded that "there was no real competition and abuse of government resources ensured that the ultimate winner of the election was never in doubt."

2024 was a critical year in both AI and social media. Things moved so fast it was hard to keep up. So our hosts reached into their mailbag to answer some of your most burning questions. Thank you so much to everyone who submitted questions. We will see you all in the new year. We are hiring for a new Director of Philanthropy at CHT. Next year will be an absolutely critical time for us to shape how AI is going to get rolled out across our society. And our team is working hard on public awareness, policy and technology and design interventions. So we're looking for someone who can help us grow to the scale of this challenge. If you're interested, please apply. You can find the job posting at humanetech.com/careers [https://www.humanetech.com/careers]. And, if you'd like to support all the work that we do here at the Center for Humane technology, please consider giving to the organization this holiday season at humantech.com/donate [https://www.humanetech.com/donate]. All donations are tax-deductible.   Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology [https://www.humanetech.com/]. Follow us on Twitter: @HumaneTech_ [https://twitter.com/humanetech_] RECOMMENDED MEDIA  Earth Species Project, Aza’s organization working on inter-species communication [https://www.earthspecies.org/] Further reading on Gryphon Scientific’s White House AI Demo [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2024-08-02/national-security-threat-from-ai-made-bioweapons-grips-us-government] Further reading on the Australian social media ban for children under 16 [https://www.reuters.com/technology/australia-passes-social-media-ban-children-under-16-2024-11-28/] Further reading on the Sewell Setzer case  [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-lawsuit-teen-suicide.html] Further reading on the Oviedo Convention, the international treaty that restricted germline editing  [https://www.coe.int/en/web/bioethics/oviedo-convention] Video of Space X’s successful capture of a rocket with “chopsticks” [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ4UHTf4p74]   RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES What Can We Do About Abusive Chatbots? With Meetali Jain and Camille Carlton [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/what-can-we-do-about-abusive-chatbots-with-meetali-jain-and-camille-carlton] AI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too. [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/ai-is-moving-fast-we-need-laws-that-will-too] This Moment in AI: How We Got Here and Where We’re Going [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/this-moment-in-ai-how-we-got-here-and-where-were-going] Former OpenAI Engineer William Saunders on Silence, Safety, and the Right to Warn [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/former-open-ai-engineer-william-saunders-on-silence-safety-and-the-right-to-warn] Talking With Animals... Using AI [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/talking-with-animals-using-ai] The Three Rules of Humane Tech [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/the-three-rules-of-humane-tech]

Silicon Valley's interest in AI is driven by more than just profit and innovation. There’s an unmistakable mystical quality to it as well. In this episode, Daniel and Aza sit down with humanist chaplain Greg Epstein to explore the fascinating parallels between technology and religion. From AI being treated as a godlike force to tech leaders' promises of digital salvation, religious thinking is shaping the future of technology and humanity. Epstein breaks down why he believes technology has become our era's most influential religion and what we can learn from these parallels to better understand where we're heading. Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology [https://www.humanetech.com/]. Follow us on X. [https://twitter.com/HumaneTech_] If you like the show and want to support CHT's mission, please consider donating to the organization this giving season: https://www.humanetech.com/donate. Any amount helps support our goal to bring about a more humane future. RECOMMENDED MEDIA  “Tech Agnostic” by Greg Epstein [https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262049207/tech-agnostic/] Further reading on Avi Schiffmann’s “Friend” AI necklace  [https://fortune.com/2024/08/12/avi-schiffmann-ai-necklace-friend-interview/] Further reading on Blake Lemoine and Lamda  [https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/11/google-ai-lamda-blake-lemoine/] Blake LeMoine’s conversation with Greg at MIT  [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ipv6HhuWM] Further reading on the Sewell Setzer case  [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-lawsuit-teen-suicide.html] Further reading on Terminal of Truths  [https://www.ccn.com/education/crypto/what-is-truth-terminal/] Further reading on Ray Kurzweil’s attempt to create a digital recreation of his dad with AI  [https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/futurist-ray-kurzweil-bring-dead-father-back-life/story?id=14267712] The Drama of the Gifted Child by Alice Miller [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4887.The_Drama_of_the_Gifted_Child] RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES  ’A Turning Point in History’: Yuval Noah Harari on AI’s Cultural Takeover [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/a-turning-point-in-history-yuval-noah-harari-on-ais-cultural-takeover]  How to Think About AI Consciousness with Anil Seth [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/how-to-think-about-ai-consciousness-with-anil-seth]  Can Myth Teach Us Anything About the Race to Build Artificial General Intelligence? With Josh Schrei [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/can-myth-teach-us-anything-about-the-race-to-build-artificial-general-intelligence-with-josh-schrei]  How To Free Our Minds with Cult Deprogramming Expert Dr. Steven Hassan [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/51-how-to-free-our-minds]

CW: This episode features discussion of suicide and sexual abuse.  In the last episode, we had the journalist Laurie Segall on to talk about the tragic story of Sewell Setzer, a 14 year old boy who took his own life after months of abuse and manipulation by an AI companion from the company Character.ai [ ]. The question now is: what's next? Megan has filed a major new lawsuit against Character.ai [ ] in Florida, which could force the company–and potentially the entire AI industry–to change its harmful business practices. So today on the show, we have Meetali Jain, director of the Tech Justice Law Project and one of the lead lawyers in Megan's case against Character.ai [ ]. Meetali breaks down the details of the case, the complex legal questions under consideration, and how this could be the first step toward systemic change. Also joining is Camille Carlton, CHT’s Policy Director. RECOMMENDED MEDIA Further reading on Sewell’s story [https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/23/technology/characterai-lawsuit-teen-suicide.html] Laurie Segall’s interview with Megan Garcia [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbuBfizSnPk] The full complaint filed by Megan against Character.AI [https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/Garcia-v-Character-Technologies-Complaint-10-23-24.pdf] Further reading on suicide bots  [https://futurism.com/suicide-chatbots-character-ai] Further reading on Noam Shazier and Daniel De Frietas’ relationship with Google  [https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/noam-shazeer-google-ai-deal-d3605697] The CHT Framework for Incentivizing Responsible Artificial Intelligence Development and Use [https://www.humanetech.com/insights/framework-for-incentivizing-responsible-artificial-intelligence] Organizations mentioned:  The Tech Justice Law Project [https://techjusticelaw.org/] The Social Media Victims Law Center [https://socialmediavictims.org/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=17676029706&utm_content=152786768068&utm_term=social%20media%20victims%20law%20center&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAxKy5BhBbEiwAYiW--ymqvgh9NDfHGmbHqV1TFaR9DeWqdjAKxdCOi542LIrc1XHkYgA03BoCzbkQAvD_BwE] Mothers Against Media Addiction [https://www.joinmama.org/] Parents SOS [https://www.parentssos.org/] Parents Together [https://parents-together.org/] Common Sense Media [https://www.commonsensemedia.org/] RECOMMENDED YUA EPISODES When the "Person" Abusing Your Child is a Chatbot: The Tragic Story of Sewell Setzer [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/when-the-person-abusing-your-child-is-a-chatbot-the-tragic-story-of-sewell-setzer] Jonathan Haidt On How to Solve the Teen Mental Health Crisis [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/jonathan-haidt-on-how-to-solve-the-teen-mental-health-crisis] AI Is Moving Fast. We Need Laws that Will Too. [https://www.humanetech.com/podcast/ai-is-moving-fast-we-need-laws-that-will-too] Corrections:  Meetali referred to certain chatbot apps as banning users under 18, however the settings for the major app stores ban users that are under 17, not under 18. Meetali referred to Section 230 as providing “full scope immunity” to internet companies, however Congress has passed subsequent laws that have made carve outs for that immunity for criminal acts such as sex trafficking and intellectual property theft. Your Undivided Attention is produced by the Center for Humane Technology [https://www.humanetech.com/]. Follow us on X.  [https://twitter.com/HumaneTech_]