etui.podcast

Counter-app (1/4): Negotiating the algorithm

The Counter-app series explores how app-based workers can counter the power of their algorithmic bosses. Each episode is based on cutting-edge research by the European Trade Union Confederation on platform work and how workers are resisting digitised exploitation. In this first episode, Ben Wray looks at what algorithmic management is, how it affects workers and what data tools and tactics workers can use to 'negotiate the algorithm'. The episode is based on a trade union manual to Negotiating the Algorithm published by the ETUC in September, which you can download here: https://www.etuc.org/en/publication/fair-platforms-project-thematic-reports [https://www.etuc.org/en/publication/fair-platforms-project-thematic-reports] Structure * 00:00 - 00:58: Introduction  * 00:59 - 03:33: Part 1: What is algorithmic management?  * 03:34 - 08:35: Part 2: What problems do workers face from algorithmic management?  * 08:36 - 12:07: Part 3: How do workers ‘negotiate the algorithm’?  * 12:08 - 19:50: Part 4: What are workers’ data tools?  * 19:51 - 22:03: Part 5: How do unions build their data capacities?  * 22:04 - 23:55: Conclusion   Credits  Background music: ‘Embrace’, by Evgeny Bardyuzha (downloaded with a creative commons licence from pixabay.com [http://pixabay.com/])  Interviews were conducted in-person with Fiachra Ó Luain, Lucie Morpurgo and Daniel Cruz in Nicosia, Cyprus, September 2025. Thanks to all.  Ben Wray (2022). ’Data Power in the gig economy: Interview with data expert Jessica Pidoux’. The Gig Economy Project.https://open.spotify.com/episode/0XwcoHYn2FkcmHPU2FQbrU [https://open.spotify.com/episode/0XwcoHYn2FkcmHPU2FQbrU]  Ben Wray (2022). ‘Algorithms, Work and the European Directive: Interview with James Farrar and Sergi Cutillas’. The Gig Economy Project.https://open.spotify.com/episode/3UEBpCVRN3bRjw14Xu1YGX [https://open.spotify.com/episode/3UEBpCVRN3bRjw14Xu1YGX]  Sarah Beckmann (2023), ‘The Shipt Calculator: Crowdsourcing Gig Worker Pay Data to Audit Algorithmic Management’. MIT Media.https://www.media.mit.edu/videos/hd-shipt-app-tracker-2023-02-22/ [https://www.media.mit.edu/videos/hd-shipt-app-tracker-2023-02-22/]  Eric Gardner (2024). 'NEW: We put 7 Uber & Lyft drivers in one room and had them open their apps.’ More Perfect Union.https://x.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1833187863498002850 [https://x.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1833187863498002850]  The Modern Mann (2025). ‘Interview: Revenge Of Gig Worker Armin Samii’. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjgKL7z4Ovw [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjgKL7z4Ovw]  Bethany Staunton, Silvia Rainone (2025). ‘What makes the Platform Work Directive a milestone? (etui.podcast)’. ETUI.https://www.etui.org/news/what-makes-platform-work-directive-milestone-etuipodcast [https://www.etui.org/news/what-makes-platform-work-directive-milestone-etuipodcast]

Labour relations in today's United States w/ Kayla Blado

To close this season, etui.podcast went a little further afield than usual to take a look at the United States labour relations landscape with Kayla Blado, who recently served as Director of Congressional and Public Affairs at the US National Labor Relations Board.   In our chat she offered some insights from her experience at the federal agency, into the recent, particularly volatile chapter in US politics, and into the country’s industrial relations system more broadly.  Interested in hearing some more of our interviews? Take a look back at this and previous seasons of etui.podcast here [https://www.etui.org/Podcasts].

Public procurement for the public good w/ Niklas Bruun and Stan De Spiegelaere

The European Commission recently launched an evaluation of the 2014 directives which shape the rules around public procurement, the process by which public contracts are put out to tender.  Trade unions have called for a revision that ensures the inclusion of criteria based on quality, rather than only price. In particular, they have argued that these rules can be used as a tool to improve labour conditions and promote collective bargaining, rather than allowing some employers to be undercut by those who show less respect for workers’ rights and trade union engagement.   Discussion with Niklas Bruun, professor of law at the Hanken School of Economics in Helsinki, about his recent paper for the ETUI [https://www.etui.org/publications/promoting-collective-bargaining-public-procurement-0] on how EU public procurement law can be improved.  Stan De Spiegelaere, Director of Policy and Research at UNI Europa, the trade union federation of service workers, lends some further insight into how the current problems play out on the ground.   Further reading Promoting collective bargaining in public procurement | etui [https://www.etui.org/publications/promoting-collective-bargaining-public-procurement-0] Collective bargaining and public procurement in Germany | etui [https://www.etui.org/publications/collective-bargaining-and-public-procurement-germany-0] Procuring Decent Work - UNI Europa [https://www.uni-europa.org/eu-affairs/procuringdecentwork/]

The fight for Europe’s industrial workforce w/ Judith Kirton-Darling and Ludovic Voet

‘Invest now or deindustrialise’ was the recent, stark warning put to the EU by industrial trade unions. Continued heavy losses in manufacturing jobs over the past decades are now culminating in what has been termed a crisis for European industry and the many workers it employs. But how should this crisis be addressed? Is the European Commission taking the right approach with the recently presented Clean Industrial Deal? And what could a worker-friendly European industrial policy look like today? Discussion with Judith Kirton-Darling, General Secretary of the industrial workers’ federation ⁠industriAll Europe⁠ [https://news.industriall-europe.eu/], and Ludovic Voet, Confederal Secretary at the European Trade Union Confederation [https://www.etuc.org/en]. Further reading Industrial policy for quality jobs and a just transition | etui [https://www.etui.org/publications/industrial-policy-quality-jobs-and-just-transition] Benchmarking Working Europe 2024 | etui [https://www.etui.org/publications/benchmarking-working-europe-2024] Green transition and job quality: risks for worker representation | etui [https://www.etui.org/publications/green-transition-and-job-quality-risks-worker-representation] Workers and the climate challenge | etui [https://www.etui.org/publications/workers-and-climate-challenge] The future of the automotive sector | etui [https://www.etui.org/publications/future-automotive-sector] Provisions for social conditionality, employment security and anticipation and management of change in the Clean Industrial Deal  [https://news.industriall-europe.eu/p/policy-brief] ETUC calls for adequate financing and responsible simplification in the Clean Industrial Deal | ETUC [https://www.etuc.org/en/document/etuc-calls-adequate-financing-and-responsible-simplification-clean-industrial-deal]

What's really behind Europe's labour shortages? w/ Wouter Zwysen

Amidst all the current debates in Europe about competitiveness, productivity, migration, and economic transitions – both ‘green’ and ‘digital’ - the ongoing issue of labour shortages has emerged as a major policy concern, intrinsically tied to all of the above. But what are the major factors driving these shortages? Where do we see them the most? And what kinds of solutions would be the most effective?   Discussion with ETUI Senior Researcher Wouter Zwysen, author of multiple recent papers on labour shortages, job quality, and workers' bargaining power. Further reading: ⁠Labour shortages, job quality and workers’ bargaining power | etui⁠ [https://www.etui.org/publications/labour-shortages-job-quality-and-workers-bargaining-power] ⁠Labour shortages – turning away from bad jobs | etui⁠ [https://www.etui.org/publications/labour-shortages-turning-away-bad-jobs] ⁠Monopsony and non-competitive labour markets | etui⁠ [https://www.etui.org/publications/monopsony-and-non-competitive-labour-markets] ⁠Benchmarking Working Europe 2024 | etui⁠ [https://www.etui.org/publications/benchmarking-working-europe-2024] ⁠Wage inequality in Europe | etui [https://www.etui.org/publications/wage-inequality-europe] Lowering wage inequality through collectively negotiated minima | etui [https://www.etui.org/publications/lowering-wage-inequality-through-collectively-negotiated-minima]⁠ [https://www.etui.org/publications/wage-inequality-europe] ⁠Green transition and job quality: risks for worker representation | etui [https://www.etui.org/publications/green-transition-and-job-quality-risks-worker-representation] Industrial policy for quality jobs and a just transition | etui [https://www.etui.org/publications/industrial-policy-quality-jobs-and-just-transition]⁠ [https://www.etui.org/publications/green-transition-and-job-quality-risks-worker-representation] ⁠What are governments doing about low-wage employment – and how successful is it? | etui⁠ [https://www.etui.org/publications/what-are-governments-doing-about-low-wage-employment-and-how-successful-it] ⁠Job quality in turbulent times | etui [https://www.etui.org/publications/job-quality-turbulent-times]