Netflix CPTO on AI and the future of product and tech roles | Elizabeth Stone

Netflix CPTO on AI and the future of product and tech roles | Elizabeth Stone

Elizabeth Stone is the Chief Product and Technology Officer (CPTO) at Netflix, where she oversees Engineering, Product, and Design. Since her first appearance on the podcast two years ago—which remained my second-most-popular episode for more than a year—she has expanded her role to lead product, in addition to engineering. Before Netflix, Elizabeth was VP of Science at Lyft, Chief Operating Officer at Nuna, an economist at Analysis Group, and a trader at Merrill Lynch. In our in-depth conversation, we discuss: 1. Why “systems thinking” is now the most important skill she looks for 2. How to manage the flood of AI-generated output without losing quality or signal 3. How Netflix thinks about AI fluency as a universal expectation rather than a level-specific skill 4. What “excellence as an operating system” means — Brought to you by: WorkOS [https://workos.com/lenny]—Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more: https://workos.com/lenny [https://workos.com/lenny] Mercury [https://mercury.com/command?utm_source=lennys&utm_medium=sponsored_newsletter&utm_campaign=26q3_brand_campaign]—Radically different banking, now with Command: https://mercury.com/command?utm_source=lennys&utm_medium=sponsored_newsletter&utm_campaign=26q3_brand_campaign [https://mercury.com/command?utm_source=lennys&utm_medium=sponsored_newsletter&utm_campaign=26q3_brand_campaign] — Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/netflix-cpto-on-ai-and-the-future [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/netflix-cpto-on-ai-and-the-future] — Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0 [https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0] — Where to find Elizabeth Stone: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-stone-608a754 [https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-stone-608a754] — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com] • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan [https://twitter.com/lennysan] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/] — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction (02:25) AI and role confusion: the storming phase before the forming phase (07:36) How roles have changed in the past two and a half years (11:55) Will functions survive? The case for craft specialism (13:26) What Netflix is hiring more of—and less of (17:22) Why systems thinking is the rising skill across every function (20:20) Is the design process dead? (22:08) Skills trending down (28:33) AI fluency and Netflix’s career ladder overlay (31:00) AI use cases beyond coding (35:12) Netflix’s AI history (38:36) Excellence as an operating system (41:11) The pillars of the excellence OS (46:41) The keeper’s test—and why it’s mostly a positive conversation (50:21) Attracting top talent in the age of frontier AI labs (52:54) Junior talent, craft mastery, and the mentorship question (56:25) Where engineering goes in 5 to 10 years (59:45) The future of entertainment: beyond film and TV (1:02:18) AI in Hollywood: Netflix’s creator-enablement position (1:06:15) Lightning round and final thoughts — Referenced: • How Netflix builds a culture of excellence | Elizabeth Stone (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-netflix-builds-a-culture-of-excellence [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-netflix-builds-a-culture-of-excellence] • Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach] • The design process is dead. Here’s what’s replacing it. | Jenny Wen (head of design at Claude): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-design-process-is-dead [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-design-process-is-dead] • Claude Code: https://www.anthropic.com/product/claude-code [https://www.anthropic.com/product/claude-code] • Claude Cowork: https://www.anthropic.com/product/claude-cowork [https://www.anthropic.com/product/claude-cowork] • Netflix’s “Keeper Test” and Why You Need It | Lorne Rubis: https://www.highlights.lornerubis.com/2015/08/the-netflix-keeper-test-and-the-courage-to-take-it [https://www.highlights.lornerubis.com/2015/08/the-netflix-keeper-test-and-the-courage-to-take-it] • Innovation for Filmmaking, By Filmmakers: Why InterPositive Is Joining Netflix: https://about.netflix.com/en/news/why-interpositive-is-joining-netflix [https://about.netflix.com/en/news/why-interpositive-is-joining-netflix] • InterPositive: https://weareinterpositive.com [https://weareinterpositive.com] • Netflix Prize: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix_Prize [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix_Prize] • Quarterback on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81482895 [https://www.netflix.com/title/81482895] • The Bill Simmons Podcast on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/82186214 [https://www.netflix.com/title/82186214] • Spencer Pratt on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/spencerpratt [https://www.instagram.com/spencerpratt] • Salman Rushdie’s Substack: https://salmanrushdie.substack.com [https://salmanrushdie.substack.com] • Remarkably Bright Creatures on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81911351 [https://www.netflix.com/title/81911351] • Eight Sleep: https://www.eightsleep.com [https://www.eightsleep.com] • Tour de France: https://www.letour.fr/en [https://www.letour.fr/en] — Recommended books: • Thinking in Systems: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Systems-Donella-H-Meadows/dp/1603580557 [https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Systems-Donella-H-Meadows/dp/1603580557] • Into Thin Air: A Personal Account of the Mt. Everest Disaster: https://www.amazon.com/Into-Thin-Air-Personal-Disaster/dp/0385494785 [https://www.amazon.com/Into-Thin-Air-Personal-Disaster/dp/0385494785] • Liar’s Poker: https://www.amazon.com/Liars-Poker-Norton-Paperback-Michael/dp/039333869X [https://www.amazon.com/Liars-Poker-Norton-Paperback-Michael/dp/039333869X] — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ [https://penname.co/]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com [podcast@lennyrachitsky.com]. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=show-notes-no-free-preview-language]

How tech workers actually feel about AI in 2026 | Annual AI sentiment survey (Noam Segal)

Noam Segal is a longtime research leader across Airbnb, Meta, Twitter, Zapier, Intercom, and Figma, a certified coach, AI builder, and my community research lead. Together, we run the annual Tech Worker Sentiment Survey, now in its second year and one of the largest of its kind: a quantitative study of how people in tech actually feel about their jobs, AI, burnout, and the future of their careers. This year’s survey captured responses from thousands of workers across product, engineering, design, research, marketing, data, and sales, and the results are striking. In our in-depth conversation, we discuss: 1. Why AI has split the tech workforce almost exactly in half—one half that’s thriving, another that’s shaken 2. The four emotional archetypes defining tech workers right now (the Energized, the Conflicted, the Disoriented, and the Resentful) 3. Why burnout has jumped an alarming 11 points in a single year 4. Why nobody in tech would recommend their job to someone entering the industry today 5. The #1 fear in tech right now (it’s not job loss to AI) 6. Why managers are the single biggest lever for employee well-being 7. Concrete advice for what employees and leaders can do right now — Brought to you by: WorkOS [https://workos.com/lenny]—Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more: https://workos.com/lenny [https://workos.com/lenny] Mercury [https://mercury.com/command?utm_source=lennys&utm_medium=sponsored_newsletter&utm_campaign=26q3_brand_campaign]—Radically different banking, now with Command: https://mercury.com/command?utm_source=lennys&utm_medium=sponsored_newsletter&utm_campaign=26q3_brand_campaign [https://mercury.com/command?utm_source=lennys&utm_medium=sponsored_newsletter&utm_campaign=26q3_brand_campaign] — Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-tech-workers-actually-feel-about [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-tech-workers-actually-feel-about] — Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0 [https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0] — Where to find Noam Segal: • X: https://x.com/noamseg [https://x.com/noamseg] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noamsegal [https://www.linkedin.com/in/noamsegal] — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com] • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan [https://twitter.com/lennysan] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/] — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Noam Segal (02:34) About the survey: methodology and scope (06:04) The core finding: AI has split the tech workforce in half (13:03) The AI identity stance (14:40) The four archetypes: Energized, Conflicted, Disoriented, Resentful (19:35) Burnout is surging (and why shipping faster is making it worse) (22:53) A glimmer of hope (24:55) Layoff worries (29:15) The career recommendation NPS score (36:45) The ladder metaphor: rungs disappearing beneath our feet (45:14) AI is making us faster, not better (52:53) The #1 fear: being squeezed to do more for the same pay (55:55) The emotional landscape and “smiling exhaustion” (01:01:02) Designers and researchers: the most negative group two years running (01:06:27) Who’s happiest (01:12:18) Managers: the single biggest lever on well-being (01:18:47) The industry is “chaotic” (01:24:53) What employees and leaders can do right now (01:31:32) AI guilt and closing thoughts — Referenced: • How tech workers are feeling in 2026: a workforce splitting in two: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-tech-workers-are-feeling-in-2026 [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-tech-workers-are-feeling-in-2026] • How tech’s most resilient workers handle burnout: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-techs-most-resilient-workers [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-techs-most-resilient-workers] • Please stop the AI Confidence Theater: https://www.elenaverna.com/p/please-stop-the-ai-confidence-theater [https://www.elenaverna.com/p/please-stop-the-ai-confidence-theater] • Velocity over everything: How Ramp became the fastest-growing SaaS startup of all time | Geoff Charles (VP of Product): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/velocity-over-everything-how-ramp [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/velocity-over-everything-how-ramp] • NPS Is The Worst: https://www.npsistheworst.com [https://www.npsistheworst.com] • The Terminator: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088247 [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088247] • Skynet: https://terminator.fandom.com/wiki/Skynet [https://terminator.fandom.com/wiki/Skynet] • Inside Devin: The world’s first autonomous AI engineer that’s set to write 50% of its company’s code by end of year | Scott Wu (CEO and co-founder of Cognition): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-devin-scott-wu [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-devin-scott-wu] • Devin: https://devin.ai [https://devin.ai] • An AI state of the union: We’ve passed the inflection point, dark factories are coming, and automation timelines | Simon Willison: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-ai-state-of-the-union [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/an-ai-state-of-the-union] • Redeploying Fable 5: https://www.anthropic.com/news/redeploying-fable-5 [https://www.anthropic.com/news/redeploying-fable-5] • Why half of product managers are in trouble | Nikhyl Singhal (Meta, Google): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-half-of-product-managers-are-in-trouble [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-half-of-product-managers-are-in-trouble] • Inside Linear: Building with taste, craft, and focus | Karri Saarinen (co-founder, designer, CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-linear-building-with-taste [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-linear-building-with-taste] • Building beautiful products with Stripe’s Head of Design | Katie Dill (Stripe, Airbnb, Lyft): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-beautiful-products-with [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-beautiful-products-with] • The design process is dead. Here’s what’s replacing it. | Jenny Wen (head of design at Claude): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-design-process-is-dead [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-design-process-is-dead] • OpenAI Codex lead on the new shape of product work | Andrew Ambrosino: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/openai-codex-lead-on-the-new-shape [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/openai-codex-lead-on-the-new-shape] • Elon Musk: ‘Chances are we’re all living in a simulation’: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/02/elon-musk-tesla-space-x-paypal-hyperloop-simulation [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/jun/02/elon-musk-tesla-space-x-paypal-hyperloop-simulation] — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ [https://penname.co/]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com [podcast@lennyrachitsky.com]. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=show-notes-no-free-preview-language]

Adam Mosseri: AI is a tailwind for authenticity

Adam Mosseri is the Head of Instagram, where he oversees an app used by over 3 billion people. He also leads the team building Threads. Adam has run Instagram for longer than its founders did, after taking over from Kevin Systrom and Mike Krieger in 2018. A designer by training, he spent over 15 years at Meta, starting as a designer on Facebook’s mobile app, rising to lead Facebook’s News Feed, and eventually chosen to lead Instagram. During his tenure, Instagram’s user base has more than tripled. In our in-depth conversation, we discuss: 1. How the canonical product team structure is changing in 2026, from baker’s-dozen specialist teams to lean pods of four to six generalists 2. The rise of the “product staff” role—a blending of PM, design, data science, and research into one generalist operator 3. Why Adam is bullish on designers even as functional boundaries dissolve, and which roles are most at risk 4. What the Instagram algorithm knows about you, and why it’s only now catching up to what people assumed it knew years ago 5. Why the rise of AI-generated content is a tailwind for Instagram, and how the company is thinking about creator identity in a synthetic-content world 6. The two biggest product failures of Adam’s career—Facebook Home and the first version of Reels — Brought to you by: WorkOS [https://workos.com/lenny]—Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more: https://workos.com/lenny [https://workos.com/lenny] Mercury [https://mercury.com/command?utm_source=lennys&utm_medium=sponsored_newsletter&utm_campaign=26q3_brand_campaign]—Radically different banking, now with Command: https://mercury.com/command?utm_source=lennys&utm_medium=sponsored_newsletter&utm_campaign=26q3_brand_campaign [https://mercury.com/command?utm_source=lennys&utm_medium=sponsored_newsletter&utm_campaign=26q3_brand_campaign] — Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/adam-mosseri-ai-is-a-tailwind-for [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/adam-mosseri-ai-is-a-tailwind-for] — Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0 [https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0] — Where to find Adam Mosseri: • X: https://x.com/mosseri [https://x.com/mosseri] • LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/mosseri [http://linkedin.com/in/mosseri] • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mosseri [https://www.instagram.com/mosseri] • Threads: https://www.threads.com/@mosseri [https://www.threads.com/@mosseri] — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com] • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan [https://twitter.com/lennysan] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/] — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Adam Mosseri (02:09) How product teams are changing inside Meta (05:48) Blurring roles and career anxiety (14:01) Hiring traits that matter now (16:48) How AI is resetting who succeeds at work (19:38) How Meta thinks about token spend and AI costs (23:23) Where human judgment still matters (25:56) Why AI is not automatically great at strategy (30:36) Why great product leaders are curators (34:23) What Instagram’s algorithm actually knows about you (38:08) Why chronological feeds often disappoint users (40:56) Why AI content may be a tailwind for Instagram (43:42) The future of AI and human content in the feed (48:00) What Adam admires about other social platforms (52:05) How he handles public criticism (56:31) Lessons from the Instagram feed redesign backlash (01:00:21) Adam’s biggest failure: Instagram on iPad (01:03:03) His approach to kids, screens, and social media (01:06:56) What Adam wants listeners to remember — Referenced: • What happens after coding is solved? | Fiona Fung (Manager of the Claude Code and Cowork Teams): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-the-most-ai-pilled-engineering [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-the-most-ai-pilled-engineering] • Claude Code: https://www.anthropic.com/product/claude-code [https://www.anthropic.com/product/claude-code] • Claude Cowork: https://www.anthropic.com/product/claude-cowork [https://www.anthropic.com/product/claude-cowork] • Head of Claude Code: What happens after coding is solved | Boris Cherny: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/head-of-claude-code-what-happens [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/head-of-claude-code-what-happens] • A rational conversation on where AI is actually going | Benedict Evans: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-rational-conversation-on-where [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-rational-conversation-on-where] • OpenAI’s CPO on how AI changes must-have skills, moats, coding, startup playbooks, more | Kevin Weil (CPO at OpenAI, ex-Instagram, Twitter): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai] • Mythos: https://www.anthropic.com/claude/mythos [https://www.anthropic.com/claude/mythos] • Fable: https://www.anthropic.com/claude/fable [https://www.anthropic.com/claude/fable] • Pluralistic: The Reverse-Centaur’s Guide to Criticizing AI: https://pluralistic.net/2025/12/05/pop-that-bubble [https://pluralistic.net/2025/12/05/pop-that-bubble] • Plastic Dream Sequence on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/plasticdreamsequence [https://www.instagram.com/plasticdreamsequence] • TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com [https://www.tiktok.com] • Facebook–Cambridge Analytica data scandal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Analytica_data_scandal [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Analytica_data_scandal] • Facebook Home: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_Home [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook_Home] — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ [https://penname.co/]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com [podcast@lennyrachitsky.com]. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=show-notes-no-free-preview-language]

OpenAI Codex lead on the new shape of product work | Andrew Ambrosino

Andrew Ambrosino leads development of the Codex desktop app at OpenAI. Nearly 100% of OpenAI employees—not just engineers—now use Codex weekly. A lifelong builder with a background spanning engineering, design, product management, and founding companies, he is now responsible for turning the Codex desktop experience into what he calls “the best desktop app that has ever existed, full stop.” In our in-depth conversation, we discuss: 1. Why AI has completely flipped the product development process 2. What “taste” really means as a professional skill, and why it is emerging as the most valuable capability in an AI-first workplace 3. Why Andrew believes the Codex app would have failed if they launched it last November (vs. in February) 4. The “zone defense” model for how product managers at OpenAI operate when everyone can build anything 5. How roles are collapsed on Andrew’s team, and why eliminating the concept of roles entirely is a big mistake 6. How Andrew uses Codex to run his own workflows 7. The vision for a home base that coordinates work across ChatGPT, Codex, and the tools people already use. — Brought to you by: WorkOS [https://workos.com/lenny]—Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more Mercury [https://mercury.com/command?utm_source=lennys&utm_medium=sponsored_newsletter&utm_campaign=26q3_brand_campaign]—Radically different banking, now with Command — Episode transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/openais-codex-lead-on-the-new-shape [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/openais-codex-lead-on-the-new-shape] — Archive of all Lenny's Podcast transcripts: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0 [https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/yxi4s2w998p1gvtpu4193/AMdNPR8AOw0lMklwtnC0TrQ?rlkey=j06x0nipoti519e0xgm23zsn9&st=ahz0fj11&dl=0] — Where to find Andrew Ambrosino: • X: https://x.com/ajambrosino [https://x.com/ajambrosino] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajambrosino [https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajambrosino] • Website: https://ambrosino.io [https://ambrosino.io] — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com] • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan [https://twitter.com/lennysan] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/] — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Andrew Ambrosino (02:30) How AI is changing the shape of product work (06:32) When to use documents vs. prototypes (10:25) What “taste” actually means (12:06) Why AI is still bad at design (16:18) Is the design process really dead? (21:35) What the design process looks like on the Codex team (23:41) Are product functions disappearing? (27:22) Team structure (30:12) IC vs. management (31:37) Planning roadmaps (35:16) Building features that don’t work yet (38:13) The ambition problem: when you’re too AGI-pilled (39:17) The latest frontier: loops and autonomous development (52:05) How Andrew uses Codex to automate his entire job (46:52) The power of computer use and browser automation (49:10) Will we run all our SaaS apps inside Codex? (52:05) The future vision for Codex (57:20) The videographer who built a Premiere Pro extension with Codex (59:30) Failure corner (1:01:50) Lightning round (1:07:03) BTS: How our producer uses Codex for editing — References: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/openais-codex-lead-on-the-new-shape [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/openais-codex-lead-on-the-new-shape] — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ [https://penname.co/]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com [podcast@lennyrachitsky.com]. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=show-notes-no-free-preview-language]

What happens after coding is solved? | Fiona Fung (Manager of the Claude Code and Cowork Teams)

Fiona Fung leads the teams behind Claude Code and Cowork at Anthropic (overseeing Boris Cherny and the entire engineering and PM team). Before Anthropic, she spent 11 years at Microsoft building Visual Studio and TypeScript and then moved to Meta, where she started Facebook Marketplace (now generating over $100 billion in GMV annually), worked on Meta’s first smart glasses and AR glasses, and led infrastructure, growth, integrity, and safety teams at Instagram. She’s been an engineer for over 25 years and has a unique perspective on how the role of building software is changing. In our in-depth conversation, we discuss: 1. What she’s learned about running a team that’s shipping 8x more code than before 2. Which roles AI will transform next 3. Specific ways her team uses AI 4. How Claude “routines” have changed how she operates as a manager 5. The context-switching problem no one has solved yet 6. The biggest unsolved problem in AI 7. What keeps her up at night — Brought to you by: WorkOS [https://workos.com/lenny]—Make your app enterprise-ready, with SSO, SCIM, RBAC, and more: https://workos.com/lenny [https://workos.com/lenny] Mercury [https://mercury.com/command?utm_source=lennys&utm_medium=sponsored_newsletter&utm_campaign=26q3_brand_campaign]—Radically different banking, now with Command: https://mercury.com/ [https://mercury.com/] — Where to find Fiona Fung: • LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/fionafung [http://linkedin.com/in/fionafung] — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com] • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan [https://twitter.com/lennysan] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/] — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Fiona Fung (02:31) How the engineering role has transformed over 25 years (09:28) What an AI-pilled software team looks like in 2026 (12:26) Using Claude to manage and review team output (14:40) The evolution of code review and verification (16:55) Who to hire: creative builders and deep systems experts (18:18) The shift to ambitious thinking (19:40) The growth mindset required to thrive in AI-native teams (25:52) Helping small businesses adopt AI tools (31:46) How Anthropic spots latent demand and builds for it (35:08) The next frontier: asynchronous work with AI routines (38:06) Agency and accountability in AI-native teams (39:40) The vibe shift from token-maxing to ROI measurement (44:24) The “bad vs. sad” quality framework (49:34) Why all managers start as ICs at Anthropic (55:24) Preventing skill atrophy (58:43) Managing context switching with 20 AI agents running (1:00:08) How PM and data science roles are transforming (1:03:40) The importance of dogfooding and using your own product (1:08:36) Outstanding questions (1:12:48) The future of engineering jobs and education (1:17:59) What keeps Fiona up at night: team culture at scale (1:22:53) From six-month roadmaps to JIT (just-in-time) monthly planning (1:27:03) Lightning round — References: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-the-most-ai-pilled-engineering [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-the-most-ai-pilled-engineering] — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ [https://penname.co/]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com [podcast@lennyrachitsky.com]. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=show-notes-no-free-preview-language]