The Vernon Richard Show

This Was Supposed to Be About Testing

This was supposed to be about testing.Instead, it turned into a conversation about burnout, money, leadership, community, AI, and what it actually takes to build a sustainable life in tech.Richard and Vernon kick off 2026 reflecting on what they’re changing, what they’re rebuilding, and how testing and quality fit into a future shaped by intention rather than hustle. Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod: * 05:19 - The Malazan Book of the Fallen [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malazan_Book_of_the_Fallen] by Steven Erikson [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Erikson] * 14:59 - The $1k Challenge [https://aliabdaal.com/the-1k-challenge/] by Ali Abdaal [https://www.youtube.com/@aliabdaal] Vernon took part in last year * 17:23 - The video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q10H5RA3eCA] from Daniel Pink on how to have a successful year * Here's [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q10H5RA3eCA&t=1195s] where Daniel talks about having a Challenger Network (but the whole video is 😙🤌🏾) * 18:46 - Toby Sinclair * Toby's website [https://www.tobysinclair.com/] * Toby's LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobysinclair/] * 19:24 - Keith Klain * Keith's blog [https://qualityremarks.com/] * Keith's podcast [https://www.youtube.com/@KeithKlain] * Keith's LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/keithklain/] * 19:25 - Agile Testing Days [https://agiletestingdays.com/] conference * 35:45 - What is Model Drift [https://www.perplexity.ai/search/6fe7f519-f694-4e4c-8c92-c6304df8cb57]? * 41:06 - Glue work * Tanya's Glue Work presentation [https://noidea.dog/glue] which you can read or watch * Vernon's talk about how glue work impacts Quality Engineers [https://youtu.be/EYTjTiRWrJo], Testers, etc. * 48:06 - Gary "GaryVee" Vaynerchuk * Gary's website [https://garyvaynerchuk.com/] * Gary's YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@garyvee] 00:00 - Intro 00:54 - Greetings & where have we been? 01:32 - The holidays 02:34 - Rest & mood 04:00 - Routines for success 05:59 - Push-up challenge! 08:35 - Dopamine detox 10:28 - THE EPISODE BEGINS! 10:29 - What are our personal 2026 themes (rather than resolutions)? 10:59 - Rich's 2026 themes 13:10 - Vern's themes 17:58 - Friendship, loneliness, and being the initiator 21:28 - Rich has a two itches. One about writing... 21:56 - ...and another about hats 25:23 - Vern's leadership focus and testing foundations 31:06 - AI work: data mindset, agents, and the vibe coding divide 40:11 - Rant about AI testing being stuck in the past 46:37 - Do "cool" shit and "talk" about it. How to stand out from AI Slop 50:10 - Our podcast themes for 2026

Shifting Left: Agile vs. Waterfall in QA

In this episode of the Vernon and Richard show, the hosts engage in light-hearted banter about football before diving into a deep discussion on QA, QE, and testing. They explore the concept of 'shift left' in software development, comparing its application in agile versus waterfall methodologies. The conversation shifts to the evolving roles of QA and QE in the context of AI's impact on the industry, emphasizing the importance of task analysis and building a quality culture within teams. The episode concludes with reflections on managing expectations in QA roles and the future of jobs in the field. 00:00 - Intro 00:48 - Welcome and "Hey" (may contain traces of ⚽️) 04:45 - Olly's first question: Does shift left lend itself more to waterfall (than other methodologies)? 14:41 - Olly's second question: Does this limit how much agile can be used? Is there potentially a new methodology that can emerge from this? 22:31 - Olly's third question (remixed by Rich a little): "...is it more now a case of making people aware that they can, should be considering things ahead of development?" 34:24 - Olly's fourth question: How far can you shift-left before it becomes overstepping? 51:53 - Olly's... which question is this now?! Next question! That works!: Where does the QA role end? Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod: * 04:26 - Olly Fairhall * Olly's LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/olly-fairhall/] * Here's a link to what Olly sent us * 04:45 - Waterfall (in software development) * Wikipedia article [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_model] about the history of the term  * This article [https://www.techtarget.com/searchsoftwarequality/definition/waterfall-model] goes into a little more detail about the different phases and characteristics of the model  * 07:29 - Dan Ashby [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-ashby/]'s (yes DAN'S!) famous diagram is part of his often cited "Continuous Testing [https://danashby.co.uk/2016/10/19/continuous-testing-in-devops/]" post * 07:50 - For folks who don't understand that reference, it's... taken (🥁) scene [https://youtu.be/jZOywn1qArI] from the movie Taken * 08:10 - Rich's Whiteboard [https://www.youtube.com/@WhiteboardTesting/videos] used to get a lot more love😞  * 22:31 - Olly's questions and thoughts [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pFmbfxR731hIDCJ1RKOY-Hw04Bqvnw2SpT93BJaGv24/edit?usp=sharing] that are guiding our conversation. Thanks Olly! * 44:12 - The book "Who Not How [https://www.amazon.co.uk/Who-Not-How-Accelerating-Teamwork-ebook/dp/B0867ZJ151/]" by Dan Sullivan and Dr. Benjamin Hardy [https://whonothow.com/#AboutAuthor] * 46:33 - Elisabeth Hendrickson * Get Elisabeth's excellent book Explore It! [https://pragprog.com/titles/ehxta/explore-it/] * Elisabeth's LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/testobsessed/] * 46:49 - Alan Page * Alan's newsletter [https://angryweasel.substack.com/] * Alan and Brent [https://www.linkedin.com/in/brentmjensen/]'s podcast [https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/abtesting] * Alan's LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/a-l-a-n/] * 51:53 - Kelsey Hightower * Kelsey did a Q&A at Cloud Native PDX [https://www.meetup.com/cloud-native-pdx/events/310310245/?eventOrigin=group_past_events] and you can listen to the question and answer I was trying to describe here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WA1GQV_hyA&t=114s]. * I urge you to listen to the whole thing. Kelsey is an excellent orator, storyteller, and all-around human ❤️ * 55:33 - Rob Sabourin * My quick Perplexity search [https://www.perplexity.ai/search/201e187a-818e-4c66-b1d6-aa58daeacc9d] for Rob's public material on Task Analysis * Rob's Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/robsabamibug/] * 56:59 - Vernon's newsletter "Yeah But Does it Work?!" * The issue mentioned is called "What Is The Vaughn Tan Rule and How Does It Impact Testing? [https://yeahbutdoesitwork.substack.com/p/what-is-the-vaughn-tan-rule-and-how]" and talks about where we might start with unbundling

Measuring Software Testing When The Labels Don’t Fit

This episode is about the struggle to explain, measure, and name the work testers and quality advocates actually do — especially when traditional labels and metrics fall short. Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod: * 05:05 - Defect Detection Rate (DDR) * The rate at which bugs are detected per test case (automated or manual) * No. of defects found by test team / No. of Test Cases executed) *100 * 15:06 - David Evans' LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidevansagilecoach/] * 24:57 - Janet Gregory * Janet's website [https://janetgregory.ca/about/] * Janet's LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/janetgregory/] * 26:01 - Defect Prevention Rate * Perplexity search results here [https://www.perplexity.ai/search/ae7d7e62-f15d-4893-b2d5-e80a48b881ed] * 28:28 - Jerry Weinberg * Jerry's Wikipedia page [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Weinberg] (his books are highly recommended) * 49:33 - Shift-Left: The concept of moving testing activities earlier in the software development lifecycyle. Some resources [https://www.perplexity.ai/search/ff65175c-5f65-4de6-828f-26b7c2edff0f] explaining the Shift-Left concept (Perplexity link) 00:00 - Intro 01:11 - Welcome & "woke" testing 😳 03:15 - QA, QE, Testing… whatever we call it, how do we measure if we're doing a good job? 03:44 - Vernon’s first experience with testing metrics: more = better? 05:00 - Defect Detection Rate enters the chat 06:41 - Rich reverse engineers quality skills needed in the AI era 10:54 - How do we know if we’re doing any of this well? 12:40 - Trigger warning: the topic of coverage is incoming 😅 16:54 - Bugs in production 21:09 - Automation metrics: flakiness, pass rates, and execution time 24:29 - Can you measure something that didn’t happen? (Prevention metrics) 27:43 - Do DORA metrics actually measure prevention? 32:03 - Here comes Jerry! 33:50 - The one metric the business cares about... 36:23 - QA vs QE: whose “quality” are we "assuring"? 39:25 - What's the story behind the numbers? 48:29 - Rich brings in Shift Left Testing 50:14 - Metrics that reach beyond engineering 53:14 - Rich gets a new perspective on QE and the business 56:50 - Who does this work? Testers? QEs? Or someone else?

When Everything Sounds Like Testing… How Do You Explain What You Really Do?

In this episode, Richard and Vernon delve into the complexities of Quality Assurance (QA), Quality Engineering (QE), and testing in software development. They explore the evolution of these concepts, their interrelations, and the importance of metrics in assessing quality. The conversation highlights the need for a holistic approach to quality, emphasizing that both prevention and detection of bugs are essential. The hosts also discuss the challenges of defining these terms and the future of quality in the industry. Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod: * 08:50 - Dan Ashby * We're referring to Dan's [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dan-ashby/]'s excellent post called "Continuous Testing [https://danashby.co.uk/2016/10/19/continuous-testing-in-devops/]" (featuring his famous diagram!) * 17:13 - Jit Gosai * Jit's blog [https://www.jitgo.uk/]  * Jit's Quality Engineering Newsletter [https://qualityeng.substack.com/]  * Jit's LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jitgo/] * 19:24 - Quality Talks Podcast * Stu's Quality Talks podcast [https://www.youtube.com/@QualityTalksPodcast] that he co-hosts with Chris Henderson * Stu's LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stuart-day-77155330/] * Chris's Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-henderson-344231156/] * 19:55 - The Testing Peers podcast [https://testingpeers.com/] * 22:00 - DORA Metrics: DORA metrics are a set of key performance indicators developed by Google’s DevOps Research and Assessment team to measure the effectiveness of software delivery and DevOps processes, focusing on both throughput and stability * 26:13 - A link from Episode 10 [https://thevernonrichardshow.com/10#t=28m40s] where Vern discusses Glue Work (be sure to check out the show notes on that episode) * Quick overview [https://dora.dev/guides/dora-metrics-four-keys/] of DORA metrics * 34:43 - The Credibility Playbook * A video course [https://stan.store/testerfromleic/p/speak-up-be-heard-get-taken-seriously-at-work] by Vernon as he experiments with building digital products. * Check it out and let him know what you think of it! 😊 * 46:24 - Ali Abdaal * Ali's website [https://aliabdaal.com/] * Ali's YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/aliabdaal] 00:00 - Intro 01:36 - Welcome 02:40 - Today's topic: What the hell is QA? QE? Testing? And is it all changing? 03:00 - Why is this bugging Rich? 05:11 - Fruit fly tangent 🍌🍊🍎🪰🐝🦋 06:27 - Rich's take on QA, QE, and Testing 08:31 - Vern's take on QA, QE, and Testing 11:15 - Is shift-left testing the same as QE? 13:05 - When the team tests early... is that QE then?! 16:18 - What's the big deal if we can’t define QE clearly? 19:27 - Why the Efficiency Era makes this even harder 22:55 - Trying to draw the Testing, QA, QE, Venn diagram 27:24 - Getting the QA, QE, Testing blend just right. What's the right mix? 29:52 - The kinds of work we take on as our careers grow 34:08 - What Testers get rewarded for 45:34 - How Ali Abdaal helped Vern think differently about quality 48:18 - Rich talks measurement

Embedding Quality Using AI

In this conversation, Vernon and Richard explore the evolving role of AI in quality engineering and software development. They discuss how AI can enhance quality control processes, the importance of embedding quality early in the development cycle, and the potential challenges and opportunities that arise from integrating AI tools. The conversation also touches on the need for skill development and community engagement in adapting to these changes, as well as the implications for roles within the industry. Description and Thumbnail made with AI to assess the quality, we had to! 00:00 - Intro 01:02 - Welcome and footy ⚽️ 02:15 - Today's topic: The impact that AI may or may not have on Quality Engineering 03:22 - Rich's wild idea about AI and software quality 14:10 - Vern asks a clarifying question 22:45 - Communities of excellence… for machines?! 24:03 - Vern thinks there's an obvious risk that follows from this idea... 31:31 - Rich addresses the risk (Oracles, prompts, and tester superpowers) 36:13 – Reflection: the hidden skill AI forces on us 41:40 – Shifting in all directions (not just left) 43:04 - Feeding your past self into an AI: smart or scary? 45:53 – Operation 400 subscribers (and bot listeners) 47:13 – Tony Bruce calls us out on sloppy show notes and outro Links to stuff we mentioned during the pod: * 04:18 - Shift-Left: The concept of moving testing activities earlier in the software development lifecycyle. * Some resources [https://www.perplexity.ai/search/ff65175c-5f65-4de6-828f-26b7c2edff0f] explaining the Shift-Left concept (Perplexity link) * 25:35 - Rob Bowley * Rob's LinkedIn * The post [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/robertbowley_typing-is-not-the-bottleneck-illustrated-activity-7363460996352327680-af7B?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAACJLG0BQTHTewSrvVgR_kl1D1z_Hk0JA_g] Vernon referred to... * ...a follow-up [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/robertbowley_yet-another-study-showing-that-ai-assisted-activity-7364190534636032003-uO0X?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAACJLG0BQTHTewSrvVgR_kl1D1z_Hk0JA_g] post not long after that one too! * 26:40 - Alan Page * Alan and Brent [https://www.linkedin.com/in/brentmjensen/]'s podcast [https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/abtesting] * Alan's LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/a-l-a-n/] * 34:43 - Saskia Coplans * Digital Interruption [https://www.digitalinterruption.com/] Saskia's cybersecurity consultancy * REXscan [https://www.rexscan.com/] Saskia's automated mobile application vulnerability scanner * Saskia's LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/saskiacoplans/] (highly recommended follow) * 41:49 - Paul Coles * Paul Coles published 3 of his 4 part series "The Subtle Art of Hearding Cats [https://dev.to/paul_coles_633f698b10fd6e]" over on Dev.To [https://dev.to] Recommended reading! * Paul's LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-c-268a8a24/] * 43:09 - Maaret Pyhäjärvi * Maaret's website [https://maaretp.com/] * Maaret's blog [https://visible-quality.blogspot.com/] * Maaret's LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/maaret/]