Divergent Dialogues

Episode #48 That’s All, Folks! Our Final Episode

After 2.5 years and 48 episodes, we’re wrapping up Divergent Dialogues. This final conversation reflects on how the podcast began, what it has meant to create this space, and why this ending feels right. We share our thoughts on growth, changing commitments, meaningful connections with guests and listeners, and the sense of completion that can come with a good goodbye. What started as regular Zoom chats between two neurodivergent social workers grew into something we’re incredibly proud of. We’re so grateful to everyone who listened, shared episodes, sent messages, and engaged with our work along the way. All episodes will remain available, so you can revisit old favourites or catch up on the ones you missed. Thank you for being part of this community. For more information about our podcast hosts check out the links below: * Caitlin Hughes * ⁠⁠Cathartic Collaborations⁠⁠ [https://catharticcollaborations.com.au/] * Social media: @cathartic.collaborations * Teena Mogler * ⁠⁠Balance Centre for Mental Health⁠⁠ [https://www.balancecentreformentalhealth.com.au/] * Social media: @balancecentreformentalhealth Ready to enhance your listening experience and make the most of each episode? Become a paid subscriber and gain access to our specially tailored Episode Guides: https://divergentdialogues.substack.com/ What’s inside? Clear, Concise Summaries: Easily revisit episode highlights to ensure you’ve got the essentials covered, all presented in a straightforward, digestible format. Reflective Questions: Explore thought-provoking prompts that honour diverse thinking styles. Whether you prefer quiet contemplation or lively discussion, these questions invite you to delve deeper at your own pace. Supportive Activities: Discover exercises and gentle strategies designed to foster learning, personal growth, and emotional wellbeing. Build on your unique strengths and nurture a sense of self-understanding. By joining our community of paid subscribers, you’ll unlock practical tools to help you on your journey to understanding and embracing your neurodivergence.

Episode #47 Curiosity Over Assumptions Conversations on Black Neurodivergent Experiences with Sheldon Gay

In this episode, we’re joined by Sheldon Gay for a thoughtful conversation about Black neurodivergent experiences, giftedness, identity, and intersectionality. Together, we explore how systems like education and mental health can misunderstand or overlook neurodivergent people, particularly when race and culture intersect with neurodivergence. Sheldon shares reflections from his own journey as a late-identified gifted Black man, including how bias, assumptions, and systemic barriers can shape who gets recognised, supported, or misunderstood. We also talk about: * The impact of being misread in school and mental health systems * Masking, code-switching, and navigating safety * Why curiosity and genuine listening matter * The importance of understanding intersectional lived experiences * Setting boundaries in spaces not designed for your identity or neurotype This conversation invites us to slow down, stay curious, and reflect on how we can create spaces where all neurodivergent people are truly seen in their full humanity. Sheldon Gay is an entrepreneur, speaker and host of the “I Must Be BUG’N” podcast. Sheldon is a leading advocate for gifted and neurodivergent people, especially those from melanated and marginalized communities. His lived-experience empowers him to help people become curious about their minds, foster community as well as experience peace and joy through authenticity. Find out more about Sheldon here: sheldongayisbugn.com Books & Resources Mentioned Me and White Supremacy: How to Recognise Your Privilege, Combat Racism and Change the World by Layla F. Saad We Are Displaced: My Journey and Stories from Refugee Girls Around the World by Malala Yousafzai Black Disability Politics by Samantha Dawn Schalk Shoshin: Beginner's Mind - The Zen Approach To Grow Faster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nl2_NCY5aik “Love Me In A Gay Way”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCjeYR7NAJ4 For more information about our podcast hosts check out the links below: * Caitlin Hughes * ⁠Cathartic Collaborations⁠ [https://catharticcollaborations.com.au/] * Social media: @cathartic.collaborations * Teena Mogler * ⁠Balance Centre for Mental Health⁠ [https://www.balancecentreformentalhealth.com.au/] * Social media: @balancecentreformentalhealth Ready to enhance your listening experience and make the most of each episode? Become a paid subscriber and gain access to our specially tailored Episode Guides: https://divergentdialogues.substack.com/ What’s inside? Clear, Concise Summaries: Easily revisit episode highlights to ensure you’ve got the essentials covered, all presented in a straightforward, digestible format. Reflective Questions: Explore thought-provoking prompts that honour diverse thinking styles. Whether you prefer quiet contemplation or lively discussion, these questions invite you to delve deeper at your own pace. Supportive Activities: Discover exercises and gentle strategies designed to foster learning, personal growth, and emotional wellbeing. Build on your unique strengths and nurture a sense of self-understanding. By joining our community of paid subscribers, you’ll unlock practical tools to help you on your journey to understanding and embracing your neurodivergence.

Voices at the Margins: Podcasting as Neuroqueer Collaborative Autoethnography and Epistemic Healing

This conversation forms part of a creative research contribution to Neurodiversity: Towards a Critical Turn in Neurodiversity Studies. It explores podcasting as a neurodivergent way of doing research — one that values voice, connection, and shared meaning. Through dialogue between seven neurodivergent podcasters, we will reflect on how podcasting helps us share knowledge differently: through conversation, emotion, and lived experience rather than traditional academic writing. You can read the journal article here: https://doi.org/10.1177/27546330261437265 Caitlin Hughes (she/they) is a queer, nonbinary, multi-exceptional Australian social worker, researcher, educator, and advocate. Late-identified as Autistic, ADHD, Gifted, and PDA, Caitlin co-hosts the Divergent Dialogues podcast and brings a lived experience-led perspective to their work. They are committed to fostering epistemic healing through relational ethics, narrative reclamation, and accessible, lived experience–driven knowledge creation. Sheldon Gay (he/him) is a Black Gifted speaker and podcast host of I Must Be BUG'N (Black Underrepresented/Unidentified Gifted and otherwise Neurodivergent). Sheldon is guided by the belief that learning to deeply and wholly Love oneSelf, cape and kryptonite, is the path to finding, creating, and maintaining Love everywhere we go. Marni Kammersell (she/her) is a American late-identified neurodivergent (Autistic, ADHD, PDA, gifted) parent of neurodivergent children. She is an educator, researcher, writer, and consultant, and co-hosts the PDA: Resistance and Resilience podcast. Marni is dedicated to honoring neurodivergent experience through relational, self-directed, and nervous-system-informed knowledge practices. bee mayhew (she/her) is a multiply neurodivergent (late-identified AuDHD, former gifted kid) writer, narrative collaborator, and communication coordinator for PDN Media. She co-hosts cosmic cheer squad podcast and has a background as a hospitality specialist and business owner. Bee’s work centers on collective narrative-building and neurodivergent storytelling through activist, community-rooted practice. Teena Mogler (she/her) is an Australian AuDHD social worker, researcher, educator, and advocate, as well as co-host of the Divergent Dialogues podcast. As a mother to neurodivergent children, Teena is passionate about amplifying neurodivergent voices and disrupting epistemic injustice through lived experience-led, neuroaffirming, and critically reflexive knowledge practices. Emma Nicholson (she/her) is a neurodivergent Australian Senior Business Analyst, creative and advocate, identifying as gifted, Dyscalculic, with all five overexcitabilities (psychomotor, sensual, intellectual, imaginational, and emotional), as well as bisexual and Heathen. She co-hosts the Positive Disintegration Podcast and serves as Vice President of the Dąbrowski Center. She is driven by an unkillable passion to demystify positive disintegration and share hard-won truths to help others feel seen and supported. Chris Wells (they/them) is a multi-exceptional, nonbinary, and neurodivergent writer, podcaster, and developmental theorist specialising in Dąbrowski’s theory of positive disintegration. They co-host the Positive Disintegration, cosmic cheer squad, and PDA: Resistance and Resilience podcasts, and are the founding president of the Dąbrowski Center and co-creator of the Positive Disintegration Network. Chris brings lived experience and a deep commitment to reframing neurodivergence through a developmental and relational lens.

Episode #46 Freeing Up Time for What Matters: Reducing the Hidden Load for Neurodivergent Families

What happens when AI is built with neurodivergent people, not about us? Caitlin and Teena are joined by Laetitia Andrac (CEO/co-founder of Understanding Zoe) for a grounded, hope-filled conversation about AI, ethics, and easing the invisible work carried by neurodivergent families. Together, we explore how AI can support scripting, communication, advocacy, and admin, while staying mindful of risks like bias and deficit-based language. Laetitia shares findings the 2025 Making the Invisible Visible [https://understandingzoe.com/white-paper] report that includes research with data from 1,091 families, including the reality that many parents are carrying an extra 33 hours per week—with around 10 hours often swallowed by admin. We also unpack what “non-negotiables” look like for ethical AI in care spaces: privacy and security, lived experience design, and using AI as an extension of human connection, not a replacement. If AI can take some of the hidden load, families can reclaim time for what matters most: connection. In this episode, we cover: * AI as a “second brain” (and why critical thinking still matters) * Bias in AI outputs and why neuroaffirming design is essential * The hidden load of parenting neurodivergent kids (and what the data says) * NDIS prep, advocacy, and practical ways AI can support * Ethics + privacy: frameworks, data protection, and trust * The emerging “AI gap” and equity in access * A sneak peek at Understanding Zoe’s upcoming app update (including support for adults) Laetitia Andrac is CEO and co-founder of Understanding Zoe [https://understandingzoe.com/], an AI-powered platform providing neuroaffirmative support for families raising neurodivergent children. A neurodivergent woman and mother of two neurodivergent daughters, Laetitia brings over 15 years of experience in strategy and innovation, including her role as former General Manager at Telstra and as a strategy consultant with Monitor-Deloitte. She's a bestselling author, international speaker, and host of The Neurodivergent Pulse Podcast. Understanding Zoe recently completed Australia's largest study on neurodivergent families (1,091 participants), published as the white paper "Making the Invisible Visible" in November 2025. Through her work, Laetitia champions moving from deficit to strength-based models, creating neuroaffirming systems rather than compliance-based solutions. Website: www.understandingzoe.com [http://www.understandingzoe.com/] LinkedIn (personal): https://www.linkedin.com/in/laetitiaandrac/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/laetitiaandrac/] LinkedIn (company): https://www.linkedin.com/company/understandingzoe/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/understandingzoe/] Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/understanding.zoe/ [https://www.instagram.com/understanding.zoe/] Email: laetitia@understandingzoe.com For more information about our podcast hosts check out the links below: * Caitlin Hughes * Cathartic Collaborations [https://catharticcollaborations.com.au/] * Social media: @cathartic.collaborations * Teena Mogler * Balance Centre for Mental Health [https://www.balancecentreformentalhealth.com.au/] * Social media: @balancecentreformentalhealth Ready to enhance your listening experience and make the most of each episode? Become a paid subscriber and gain access to our specially tailored Episode Guides: https://divergentdialogues.substack.com/What’s inside?Clear, Concise Summaries: Easily revisit episode highlights to ensure you’ve got the essentials covered, all presented in a straightforward, digestible format.Reflective Questions: Explore thought-provoking prompts that honour diverse thinking styles. Whether you prefer quiet contemplation or lively discussion, these questions invite you to delve deeper at your own pace.Supportive Activities: Discover exercises and gentle strategies designed to foster learning, personal growth, and emotional wellbeing. Build on your unique strengths and nurture a sense of self-understanding.By joining our community of paid subscribers, you’ll unlock practical tools to help you on your journey to understanding and embracing your neurodivergence.

Episode #45 Holding Space for Yourself and Your Kids with Michael Coles

In this thoughtful and heartfelt conversation, we’re joined by autistic advocate, podcast host and dad, Michael Coles, for a discussion about the lived experience of neurodivergent parenting. Together, we explore the complexities and joys of raising neurodivergent children as neurodivergent adults, especially through the lens of fatherhood.Michael shares how his self-understanding evolved through parenting, the sensory and emotional dynamics of a neurodivergent household, and the ongoing process of self-compassion, co-regulation and community connection.We discuss:The reality of differing neurotypes within the same familyChallenges and wins with school systems and advocacyThe power of support networks and peer connectionThis episode is a gentle yet powerful reminder that neurodivergent parents are doing brave, beautiful work…often while healing themselves. Whether you’re a parent, professional, or simply seeking deeper understanding, there’s wisdom here for all of us.Michael Coles is an autistic advocate, speaker, and host of The Deep Dive Podcast. Drawing on lived experience and professional practice, Michael explores topics including autistic burnout, neurodiversity in the workplace, and inclusive systems that genuinely support neurodivergent people. His work focuses on bridging understanding between autistic and non-autistic communities, with a strong emphasis on safety, dignity, and sustainable participation.Website: http://www.deepdiveau.netLinktree: http://linktr.ee/michaelcolesInstagram & TikTok: @thedeepdiveauYouTube and Facebook: @TheDeepDiveAUThere is a substack that you can subscribe to, but email Michael for the link admin@deepdiveau.netFor more information about our podcast hosts check out the links below:Caitlin HughesCathartic Collaborations - https://www.catharticcollaborations.c...Social media: @cathartic.collaborationsTeena MoglerBalance Centre for Mental Health - https://www.balancecentreformentalhea...Social media: @balancecentreformentalhealthReady to enhance your listening experience and make the most of each episode? Become a paid subscriber and gain access to our specially tailored Episode Guides: https://divergentdialogues.substack.com/What’s inside?Clear, Concise Summaries: Easily revisit episode highlights to ensure you’ve got the essentials covered, all presented in a straightforward, digestible format.Reflective Questions: Explore thought-provoking prompts that honour diverse thinking styles. Whether you prefer quiet contemplation or lively discussion, these questions invite you to delve deeper at your own pace.Supportive Activities: Discover exercises and gentle strategies designed to foster learning, personal growth, and emotional wellbeing. Build on your unique strengths and nurture a sense of self-understanding.By joining our community of paid subscribers, you’ll unlock practical tools to help you on your journey to understanding and embracing your neurodivergence.