Your Busyness Is a Fear Response: How our Nervous System Responds to Complexity with Jennifer Garvey Berger

The Hidden Wisdom Your Team Isn't Sharing with Jeff Wetzler

What if the answers to some of your biggest leadership challenges are already sitting inside your team, but nobody is saying them out loud? In this episode, I sit down with Jeff Wetzler, founder of Ask Approach, co-founder of Transcend, former Chief Learning Officer at Teach For America, and author of Ask: Tap Into the Hidden Wisdom of People Around You for Unexpected Breakthroughs in Leadership and Life. The reality is that the people around us know things we don't. They have ideas, perspectives, concerns, and feedback that could help us make better decisions, avoid mistakes, and navigate challenges more effectively. Yet so often those insights never get shared. Jeff has spent decades helping leaders understand why this happens and, more importantly, what we can do about it. In this conversation, we explore why people hold back what they're really thinking, how authority changes conversations, and the practical habits leaders can develop to hear more of what matters. We also dive into curiosity, listening, psychological safety, feedback, and what Jeff calls "the unspokens" that exist in every team and organisation. In this episode, we cover: * Why people hold back feedback, concerns, ideas, and perspectives from leaders * The hidden cost of the "unspokens" inside teams and organisations * How power and authority make it harder for leaders to hear the truth * The four things leaders are least likely to hear from their people * Jeff's ASK Approach and the five practices that unlock collective intelligence * Why curiosity is a choice, not a personality trait * How to create environments that feel safe enough for people to speak up * The difference between quality questions and the questions that shut down learning * Why most leaders think they're better listeners than they actually are * How to encourage more honest feedback, especially as you become more senior * The role AI can play in helping leaders become more curious, reflective, and effective Many of the answers we are looking for already exist somewhere in the organisation. The challenge is that people don't always tell us what they know, what they're worried about, or what they're seeing. My favourite part was Jeff's perspective on curiosity. We often think of curiosity as something you either have or you don't. Jeff challenges that idea and offers a much more practical way of thinking about it. I also found myself reflecting on how easy it is, particularly when we're busy or under pressure, to move too quickly into problem-solving mode. Sometimes the most valuable thing we can do as leaders is pause long enough to ask another question. If you're leading a team and want to hear more of what people are really thinking, I think you'll get a lot from this conversation.

The Science of Human Flourishing with Sue Langley

The way we think becomes the way we lead. Our habits, emotions, assumptions, and internal stories shape how we show up every day, often without us even realising it. In this episode, Sue Langley explores the science behind human flourishing and why understanding ourselves may be one of the most important leadership capabilities of all. I’m joined by Sue Langley, one of Australia’s leading experts in positive psychology, emotional intelligence, and neuroscience. Sue is the founder and CEO of The Langley Group and has spent decades helping leaders, teams, and organisations apply the science of human flourishing in practical and meaningful ways. She’s known for translating complex research into tools leaders can actually use every day. This conversation is packed with practical insights, powerful stories, and simple shifts that can help us better understand our emotions, strengthen our relationships, and lead with greater awareness and intention. In this episode, we cover: * Why habits are not just behavioural, but also emotional and cognitive * The neuroscience behind thought patterns and emotional regulation * How leaders can strengthen emotional intelligence over time * Why wellbeing directly impacts performance and decision-making * The difference between powering through versus recognising emotional overload * Why positive psychology is not about “being positive all the time” * The role of psychological safety, empathy and emotional awareness in leadership * How leaders can create healthier conversations and stronger relationships at work through active constructive responding * Why accountability and wellbeing must coexist in thriving teams * The importance of finding wellbeing strategies that genuinely work for you My favourite part of this conversation was Sue's discussion about active constructive responding. The questions we ask matter. When we respond with curiosity instead of judgement, possibility instead of limitation, we create space for better thinking, stronger relationships, and better outcomes. What might change if, instead of asking why something won't work, we started asking what could make it possible? If there’s one idea from this conversation that stayed with you, share this episode with someone who’d appreciate it too. Until next time, keep leading with curiosity and heart.

Your Busyness Is a Fear Response: How our Nervous System Responds to Complexity with Jennifer Garvey Berger

If you've been feeling stretched, reactive, or like you're constantly doing more without actually moving the needle, this episode is for you. I'm joined by Jennifer Garvey Berger, CEO and co-founder of Cultivating Leadership, Harvard-educated developmental psychologist, and one of the world's leading thinkers on adult development, complexity, and leadership. Jennifer is the author of four widely acclaimed books: Changing on the Job, Simple Habits for Complex Times, Unlocking Leadership Mind Traps, and Unleash Your Complexity Genius. I first came across her work through colleagues at Harvard Kennedy School, and I've been a fan ever since. This conversation goes deep on why complexity isn't just a business problem, it's a nervous system problem, and what leaders can actually do about it. We explore how polarity thinking reframes some of the most persistent tensions in organisations, why psychological safety isn't about comfort, and what it means to lead with embodied intelligence in a world where AI is changing everything. So many nuggests of gold in this episode. In this episode, we cover: * Why complexity is experienced as a threat by the nervous system, and how that drives leaders and teams into reactive busyness instead of purposeful action * The honest bind leaders are in right now: needing to project hope while being unable to guarantee anything * What it really means to lead from the body, not just the head, and why Jennifer shifted from being a sceptic to a convert * The power of polarity thinking: how holding two interdependent goods at once transforms cross-functional collaboration and team dynamics * Why psychological safety is not about comfort, it's about the capacity to be in discomfort together * How AI is changing the way we connect (including why nervous systems can't co-regulate through a screen the way they can in person) * What thriving teams actually have in common: genuine liking, not just functional respect I loved this conversation for so many reasons, but the thing that really resonated with me was Jennifer's reframe of busyness. When leaders and team members say 'I'm just so busy right now', she suggests what they're really saying is 'I'm afraid.' And busyness becomes the modern response to a frightening world. It connects to something I see constantly in my work: leaders who are doing a lot, but not necessarily doing the right things. Pushing harder on what no longer works. Jennifer's reminder that doubling down is often a fear response, not a strategy, is one I'll be taking into my work with teams. Teams thrive when leaders slow down enough to actually show up. If this conversation sparked something for you, share it with a leader in your world who's navigating complexity right now. And if you haven't already, follow the Thriving Leaders Podcast so you never miss an episode.

Working with People You Don't Agree With, Like, or Trust with Adam Kahane

Most of us know the feeling. There's someone at the table we don't agree with, don't particularly like, or don't quite trust, and the situation isn't going away. Whether it's a difficult peer, a misaligned executive, a stakeholder relationship that's gone a bit stale, or a cross-functional partnership that feels like it's going nowhere, the instinct is often the same: work around it, avoid it, or wait it out. And as Adam Kahane will tell you, that rarely works. Adam Kahane is founding partner of Reos Partners, a global organisation specialising in collaborative approaches to complex challenges. Over more than 35 years, he has worked in over 50 countries supporting governments, corporations, and civil society through some of the world's most difficult situations, from the democratic transition in post-apartheid South Africa to peace processes in Colombia. He is the author of six books, including the newly revised Collaborating with the Enemy: How to Work with People You Don't Agree with or Like or Trust (Second Edition, 2025), which carries a foreword from Nobel Peace Laureate Juan Manuel Santos. Nelson Mandela described his earlier work as addressing "the central challenge of our time: finding a way to work together to solve the problems we have created". In this conversation, Adam unpacks why working across difference is becoming harder just as it's becoming more essential, and what leaders can actually do about it. We explore his concept of "enemyfying", the limits of conventional collaboration, and why the real breakthrough in any difficult collaboration is rarely about changing the other person. In this episode, we cover: * Why our capacity to work across difference is declining just as the need for it is increasing, and what's driving that gap * What "enemyfying" actually means, why we all do it, and why it's such an unhelpful starting point for getting anything done * The difference between conventional collaboration and stretch collaboration, and how to know which one your situation actually calls for * Why telling people to "think of the whole" or "leave your interests at the door" is often unrealistic, and in many cases manipulative * How complexity and conflict change the rules of collaboration entirely * The four options we have in any difficult situation, and why collaboration is just one of them * What Adam calls "The Click", the turning point moment that shifts a stuck group toward real progress * The most practical thing you can do when you're tempted to keep telling someone they're wrong I loved Adam's framing that working with people we don't agree with, like, or trust is not a new idea at all. What's new is how much we've retreated from it, and how much the quality of our leadership, our teams, and our organisations depends on us getting better at it again. If this conversation resonated, share it with a leader or team navigating a difficult stakeholder relationship, a silo situation, or a collaboration that feels more stuck than it should be.

Rebecca Sutherns on Team Alignment, Strategy, and Smarter Decisions

What if your team is using the same words, but imagining completely different futures? This conversation is a powerful reminder that alignment is not about sameness, it is about helping people see clearly, think together, and move forward with intention. In this episode, I’m joined by Rebecca Sutherns, trusted advisor, bestselling author, master facilitator, certified coach, and someone I deeply admire for the way she helps people unlock courage, clarity and momentum. With more than 25 years of experience, Rebecca works with mission-driven organisations to help leaders reimagine what’s next and get aligned on what matters most. In our conversation, we explore what it really takes to get people “watching the same movie” in teams and organisations. Rebecca shares why strategy needs more imagination, why leaders need to get clearer about the problem they are actually solving, and why waiting for perfect information can become the very thing that keeps teams stuck. This is such an important conversation right now because so many leaders are navigating complexity, competing perspectives, and decision fatigue. Rebecca brings a grounded, practical lens to all of it, and I think you’ll walk away with fresh ways to lead better conversations and better decisions. Let’s dive in. In this episode, we cover: * Why teams can use the same words but still be picturing completely different futures * How to create a vivid shared vision, not just another polished vision statement * Why “what problem are we solving?” is one of the most important questions a leader can ask * How to clarify decision-making criteria before people get attached to their preferred solution * Why waiting for full information is often just a stall tactic in disguise * How facilitation slows teams down at the beginning so they can move faster later * Why thriving teams do not just predict the future, they help create it I loved this conversation because Rebecca puts language to something so many leaders experience but struggle to name. My favorite part was her reminder that alignment is not about making everyone the same, it is about making thinking visible so people can understand each other, challenge well, and move forward with intention. The future does not just happen to teams. The strongest teams help shape it. If this episode resonated with you, share it with a leader, facilitator or executive team who is working through complexity and trying to make better decisions together.