Lawyers Never Become Successful Partners in the Age of AI without Human Judgement with Sunny Mann

Lawyers Never Become Successful Partners in the Age of AI without Human Judgement with Sunny Mann

In this episode of Beyond Billables: Lessons from Top Law Firm Partners, host Stephen Rodney [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] sits down with Sunny Mann [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sunny-mann-918ba5116/], Global Chair of Baker McKenzie [https://www.linkedin.com/company/baker-&-mckenzie/] and one of the world's leading international trade lawyers. With more than 26 years at the firm, Sunny shares his journey from accidental lawyer to global leader, discussing the skills that drive success in law, the importance of human relationships, and how firms can prepare for a rapidly changing legal landscape. Join us as we explore leadership, client relationships, lateral hiring, AI, resilience, and the future of global law firms. Sunny Mann is the Global Chair of Baker McKenzie, one of the world's largest law firms with more than 13,000 employees across 70 offices. A specialist in international trade law, Sunny built one of Europe's leading trade practices and has advised major global companies on geopolitical challenges, sanctions, and international trade issues. He is also a passionate advocate for mentoring, inclusion, leadership development, and building strong global teams. Expect to Learn: * How Sunny Mann built a successful career in international trade law and rose to become Global Chair of Baker McKenzie. * Why human relationships remain at the heart of successful client service, even in the age of AI. * The key qualities that make a successful law firm partner and effective leader. * How Baker McKenzie approaches lateral hiring, integration, and global collaboration. * Why curiosity, resilience, and finding enjoyment in your work are essential for long-term success. Episode Breakdown with Timestamps: * [00:00] – Teaser * [01:03] – Welcome & Introduction of Sunny Mann * [05:03] – The importance of curiosity and staying ahead of geopolitics * [10:33] – AI will drive efficiency, but human judgment and humanity remain critical * [17:33] – The billable hour will materially shift to alternative pricing models * [23:33] – Election process with 600+ voting partners; role is to stay connected to clients and people * [29:33] – Baker McKenzie’s global culture (“cultural friendship”) attracts outward‑looking lawyers * [35:29] – Best moment: mobilising global trade practice for Russia‑Ukraine crisis * [38:32] – Proud of supporting Kiev office; first town hall as chair was with Kiev team * [43:03] – “Find the fun in your role” – advice to junior lawyers and to himself as chair * [49:34] – Three non‑negotiable behaviours: communication, care, fun * [53:31] – Golden rule: keep the human at the heart of everything we do * [54:44] – Host’s golden rule: treat clients as people, not as clients * [55:45] – Closing thanks and episode wrap‑up Connect with Sunny Mann: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sunny-mann-918ba5116/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sunny-mann-918ba5116/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/baker-&-mckenzie/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/baker-&-mckenzie/] * Company’s Website: https://www.bakermckenzie.com/en/ [https://www.bakermckenzie.com/en/] Connect with Stephen Rodney: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] * Company’s Website: https://www.linkedin.com/company/booxkeepingfranchise/https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Connect with IntoGreat Coaching: * Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Listening Links: * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4 [https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4] * Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8lhttps://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l [https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l]

What Makes a Successful Law Firm Partner for Lawyers to Become Trusted Advisers with Jane Caskey

In this episode of Beyond Billables: Lessons from Top Law Firm Partners, host Stephen Rodney [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] sits down with Jane Caskey [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jane-caskey-30568840/], Global Head of Risk Advisory at Linklaters [https://www.linkedin.com/company/linklaters/]. Jane shares her journey from intellectual property litigation in Canada to leading a global risk advisory practice at one of the world's leading law firms. The conversation explores how client expectations are changing, why lawyers need to think beyond legal advice alone, and what it takes to become a trusted adviser in today's increasingly complex business environment. Jane Caskey leads the risk advisory practice at Linklaters. Originally from Canada, she began her career as an intellectual property lawyer before taking on global leadership roles, including Global Head of Intellectual Property and Chief Client Officer at her previous firm. Jane has helped shape innovative approaches to client service by combining legal, compliance, risk, and operational expertise to deliver integrated solutions for global clients. Expect to Learn: * How Jane transitioned from IP litigation to leading a global risk advisory practice. * Why clients increasingly expect lawyers to provide business-focused advice, not just legal opinions. * The importance of collaboration, client relationships, and cross-selling in building a successful legal practice. * Key lessons for lateral partners on integration, culture, and long-term success. * How AI is changing the legal profession and why mentoring remains critical for future lawyers. Episode Breakdown with Timestamps: * [00:00:00] – Teaser * [00:01:16] – Welcome to Beyond Billables & Introduction of Jane Caskey * [00:05:46] – Clients want proactive horizon scanning and strategic advice * [00:09:03] – How Linklaters approached her – aligned vision * [00:14:46] – Linklaters advanced on AI – Applied Intelligence team * [00:19:16] – Transparency and trust among partners * [00:26:14] – Building relationships through in‑person meetings * [00:30:22] – Echoes colleague’s view – holistic client perspective * [00:36:46] – Formal integration plan at Linklaters – first two weeks intense * [00:42:46] – Less good moments: territorial partners, insecurity * [00:49:16] – Importance of client relationships over metrics * [00:55:16] – Future of partnership: AI changes leverage, raises mentoring concerns * [01:00:09] – Golden rule: no ego – put clients and firm first * [01:00:34] – Closing thanks and episode wrap‑up Connect with Jane Caskey: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jane-caskey-30568840/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jane-caskey-30568840/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/linklaters/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/linklaters/] * Company’s Website: https://www.linklaters.com/ [https://www.linklaters.com/] Connect with Stephen Rodney: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] * Company’s Website: https://www.linkedin.com/company/booxkeepingfranchise/https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Connect with IntoGreat Coaching: * Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Listening Links: * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4 [https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4] * Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8lhttps://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l [https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l]

How Lawyers Struggle to Make Partner Without Skills, Leadership & Relentless Drive – Julian Taylor

In this episode of Beyond Billables: Lessons from Top Law Firm Partners, host Stephen Rodney [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] speaks with Julian Taylor [https://www.linkedin.com/in/julian--taylor/], Senior Partner at Simmons & Simmons [https://www.linkedin.com/company/simmons-&-simmons/]. Julian shares his unusual path into law, from studying history and working as a barrister to becoming a senior leader at one of the world’s leading international law firms. The conversation explores leadership, law firm culture, flexible working, partner success, and how firms can create environments where people prosper. Julian also reflects on mentoring, client relationships, and the future of the legal profession in a rapidly changing world. Julian Taylor is the Senior Partner at Simmons & Simmons, an international law firm with offices across Europe, Asia, the Middle East, and the US. Originally called to the Bar, Julian later moved into private practice and built his career as an employment lawyer. Alongside his client work, he has held several leadership roles within the firm, including International Practice Head for Employment, before becoming Senior Partner. Julian is known for his people-focused leadership style, his advocacy for flexible working, and his strong focus on collaboration and culture within professional services firms. Expect to Learn: * How Julian unexpectedly moved from the Bar into private practice and built a successful legal career. * Why culture, collaboration, and leadership matter so much in law firms. * The importance of flexible working and how it helped Julian balance family life with career progression. * What separates highly successful law firm partners from others in the profession. * How AI and changing client expectations could reshape the future of the billable hour model. Episode Breakdown with Timestamps: * [00:00] – Teaser * [01:10] – Welcome to Beyond Billables & Introduction of Julian Taylor * [04:22] – Why employment law: people, the crazy things people do * [09:40] – Became international practice head for employment in 2016 * [15:01] – What makes a successful partner: understanding clients, solution-focused, drive * [21:14] – Intervening when partners show bad behaviour * [26:55] – Lateral success: fit with values, skills, sometimes recruitment mistakes * [30:40] – Gender balance: from 10% to 33% female partners, female managing partner * [37:40] – Best moment: phone hacking case * [42:40] – Advice to younger self: worry better, don’t catastrophize * [48:40] – Future factors: AI will kill the billable hour, move to output‑based billing * [53:49] – Golden rule: focus * [54:18] – Closing thanks and episode wrap‑up Connect with Julian Taylor: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julian--taylor/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/julian--taylor/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/simmons-&-simmons/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/simmons-&-simmons/] * Company’s Website: https://www.simmons-simmons.com/ [https://www.simmons-simmons.com/] Connect with Stephen Rodney: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] * Company’s Website: https://www.linkedin.com/company/booxkeepingfranchise/https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Connect with IntoGreat Coaching: * Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Listening Links: * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4 [https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4] * Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8lhttps://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l [https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l]

How Big Law Partners Already Have Clients to Start a Firm and Increase Profits with James Hacking

In this episode of Beyond Billables: Lessons from Top Law Firm Partners, host Stephen Rodney [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] speaks with James Hacking [https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-hacking-376b32/], Co-founder and CEO of Kindleworth LLP [https://www.linkedin.com/company/kindleworth-llp/]. The conversation explores how and why top lawyers are choosing to launch their own firms, the realities behind law firm startups, and how the legal market is evolving. They also discuss private equity in law, the role of technology, and why specialisation and independence are becoming more attractive in today’s legal landscape. James Hacking is Co-founder and CEO of Kindleworth LLP, a consultancy that helps launch and manage law firms. With nearly 30 years of experience in legal operations, including roles across HR, compliance, and business strategy, James has supported the creation of over 50 law firms globally. His work focuses on helping partners build high-performing firms while removing operational burdens so they can focus on clients and growth. Expect to Learn: * Why many partners are choosing to leave large firms and start their own practices * The common fears around launching a law firm and how they are addressed * How law firm startups can be profitable from an early stage * The growing role of private equity and external funding in legal services * Why specialisation and new firm models are shaping the future of law Episode Breakdown with Timestamps: * [00:00] – Teaser * [00:54] – Welcome to Beyond Billables * [01:54] – Introduction of James Hacking (Kindleworth) * [05:24] – Signature Litigation and Three Crowns (2014) * [09:43] – Host asks about worries * [14:08] – Margins of 55‑65%, founders can earn more * [19:30] – Exit questions – not yet seen in practice * [23:54] – Larger partnerships find change harder * [29:00] – Not in 12 months, but seems inevitable longer term * [37:26] – US‑UK mergers creating opportunities for teams to leave * [44:23] – AI as a positive driver for law firm founders * [47:32] – US market prospects – opening an East Coast office * [49:08] – Closing thanks Connect with James Hacking: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-hacking-376b32/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-hacking-376b32/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kindleworth-llp/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/kindleworth-llp/] * Company’s Website: https://kindleworth.com/ [https://kindleworth.com/] Connect with Stephen Rodney: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] * Company’s Website: https://www.linkedin.com/company/booxkeepingfranchise/https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Connect with IntoGreat Coaching: * Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Listening Links: * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4 [https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4] * Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8lhttps://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l [https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l]

Why Great Lawyers Still Lose Clients Without Commercial Thinking and Human Trust with Tom Cassels

In this episode of Beyond Billables, host Stephen Rodney [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] speaks with Tom Cassels [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-cassels-8a0a538/], Senior Partner at Linklaters [https://www.linkedin.com/company/linklaters/], about how top litigators build and sustain successful careers. The conversation explores Tom’s unconventional path into law, the evolution of complex litigation, and how the profession is changing with funding models and AI. The episode also focuses on the human side of legal practice, including client relationships, leadership, and building strong teams. Tom Cassels is a Senior Litigation partner at Linklaters, specialising in high stakes disputes, public law, and competition litigation. He began his career at Baker McKenzie, where he developed broad litigation experience before specialising through major cases such as the Camelot judicial review. Over time, he became known for handling complex, high profile matters and has worked with global clients across industries, including sports and international disputes. EXPECT TO LEARN * How strong client relationships shape successful legal outcomes * Why commercial thinking matters more than pure legal arguments * How litigation funding and class actions are changing the legal market * What makes a successful law firm partner beyond technical skills * How AI may increase the value of human judgement in law Episode Breakdown with Timestamps * [00:00] – Teaser * [01:03] – Welcome to Beyond Billables & Introduction of Tom Cassels * [05:14] – Running cases unsupervised, then moving to Australia * [09:40] – What makes a successful litigation partner * [15:19] – Young lawyers afraid to pick up the phone * [21:51] – AI and house‑buying analogy – trust in human judgment * [27:51] – Law firms getting better at management over time * [31:08] – Making sponsoring partners responsible for integration * [36:40] – War story: Lewis Hamilton’s Belgian GP appeal (2007) * [42:32] – Advice to younger self: less time in the bar * [48:37] – Three non‑negotiable behaviours: respect, honesty, enjoyment * [49:31] – Closing thanks and episode wrap‑up Connect with Tom Cassels: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-cassels-8a0a538/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-cassels-8a0a538/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/linklaters/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/linklaters/] * Company’s Website: https://www.linklaters.com/ [https://www.linklaters.com/] Connect with Stephen Rodney: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] * Company’s Website: https://www.linkedin.com/company/booxkeepingfranchise/https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Connect with IntoGreat Coaching: * Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Listening Links: * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4 [https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4] * Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8lhttps://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l [https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l]