Navigating the Complexity of Cult Recovery with Elise Heerde

What Now? Reconstructing Identity After Cults with Chris Shelton

In this episode, Rachel welcomes back Chris Shelton, a former Scientologist and author of the new book, What Now? They dive deep into Chris's experiences, discussing the complexities of recovery from high-control groups and the importance of understanding one's own moral framework. Chris shares insights from his extensive studies in coercive control and introduces his REM model, which explores the layers of consciousness, morality, emotions, and rationality that influence human behavior. Chris reflects on his journey of escaping Scientology, the challenges of grappling with guilt and moral injury, and the transformative power of education in recovery. He emphasizes the significance of self-compassion and the idea that most people are well-intentioned, even when caught in harmful systems. As they navigate these profound topics, Chris offers practical advice for those seeking to rebuild their lives after cult experiences, highlighting the necessity of agency in the recovery process. Join Rachel and Chris for a thought-provoking conversation that sheds light on the path to healing and the tools needed to foster a fulfilling life post-cult. Chris’s Links: Website: https://chrissheltonmsc.org/ [https://chrissheltonmsc.org/] YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ChrisSheltonMsc [https://www.youtube.com/@ChrisSheltonMsc] Connect with us on social media:  ⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠ [http://https//linktr.ee/indoctrination%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0] Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more:  https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠ [https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination] Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION [https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATIO] Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here: ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠ [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS] Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation:  https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm [https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm] Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4 [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4] Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore: https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign [https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign] Journal App:  https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html [https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html] Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here: https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html [https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html] IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant: ⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about [https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about] Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands [https://redcircle.com/brands]

BONUS EPISODE PREVIEW - The Power of Consent: Navigating Boundaries in Healing Spaces

This is just a preview of our Patreon-exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination [https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination]  In this exclusive Patreon bonus episode, Rachel shares her reflections on the importance of agency and consent in our interactions with others. Drawing from a seemingly casual conversation with a yoga instructor at a music festival, Rachel explores the deeper implications of how we communicate and engage with each other, particularly in contexts that involve personal boundaries. Through this insightful dialogue, listeners are encouraged to recognize their own boundaries and the importance of being asked for consent in all areas of life. Rachel urges everyone to be vigilant about the dynamics of their relationships, especially when faced with pressure from others who may not prioritize their well-being. Connect with us on social media:  ⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠ [https://linktr.ee/indoctrination] Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION [https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATIO] Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here: ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠ [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS] Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation:  https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm [https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm] Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4 [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4] Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore: https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign [https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign] Journal App:  https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html [https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html] Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here: https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html [https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html] IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant: ⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about [https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about] Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands [https://redcircle.com/brands]

Manifestation Myths: A Deep Dive into the Law of Attraction with Andrew Jasko

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein welcomes back Andrew Jasko, a religious trauma and cult specialist, for a thought-provoking discussion on the potential pitfalls of the Law of Attraction, also known as manifestation. Andrew delves into the historical roots of this philosophy, tracing its connections to the New Thought Church movement, and examines how its teachings can lead to psychological harm and victim-blaming. As they explore the nuances of spirituality and personal responsibility, Rachel and Andrew address the dangers of magical thinking and the misconceptions surrounding the idea that one's thoughts alone can shape reality. They discuss the implications of this belief on mental health, including the pressure it creates for individuals to take sole responsibility for their circumstances, often leading to denial and shame when things go wrong. Through this engaging conversation, listeners will gain insight into the complexities of manifestation, the importance of critical thinking, and the necessity of acknowledging all emotions—both positive and negative. Andrew emphasizes the value of integrating various aspects of our experience to foster genuine healing and empowerment, rather than succumbing to the oversimplifications of the Law of Attraction. Andrew’s Links: Website: https://lifeafterdogma.org/ [https://lifeafterdogma.org/] Connect with us on social media:  ⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠ [http://%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0https://linktr.ee/indoctrination%E2%81%A0%E2%81%A0] Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more:  https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠ [https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination] Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION [https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATIO] Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here: ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠ [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS] Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation:  https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm [https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm] Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4 [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4] Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore: https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign [https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign] Journal App:  https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html [https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html] Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here: https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html [https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html] IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant: ⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about [https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about] Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands [https://redcircle.com/brands]

Navigating the Complexity of Cult Recovery with Elise Heerde

In this episode, Rachel welcomes back Elise Heerde, a mental health practitioner and co-director of the Religious Trauma Collective in Australia. Together, they delve into the complexities of religious trauma, cult recovery, and the ethical considerations surrounding exit counseling. Elise shares her journey and insights gained from her work with survivors, emphasizing the importance of agency and choice during the recovery process. Elise discusses the evolution of terminology in the field, moving from 'deprogramming' to 'exit counseling,' and the implications of these terms on the approach to helping individuals leave high-control groups. They explore the nuanced dynamics involved in supporting both survivors and their families, highlighting the need for long-term scaffolding and community support to facilitate healing. The conversation also touches on the potential pitfalls of media portrayals of cults and the importance of trauma-informed practices when sharing survivor stories. Join Rachel and Elise as they navigate these vital topics, providing valuable insights for practitioners and families alike, while advocating for a compassionate and ethical approach to recovery. Elise’s Links Website: https://www.eliseheerde.com/ [https://www.eliseheerde.com/] Religious Trauma Collective: https://religioustraumaandcults.com/ [https://religioustraumaandcults.com/] Connect with us on social media:  ⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠ [https://linktr.ee/indoctrination] Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more:  https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠ [https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination] Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION [https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATIO] Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here: ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠ [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS] Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation:  https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm [https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm] Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4 [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4] Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore: https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign [https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign] Journal App:  https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html [https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html] Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here: https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html [https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html] IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant: ⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about [https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about] Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands [https://redcircle.com/brands]

BONUS PREVIEW: The Courage to Stand Alone

This is just a preview of our Patreon-exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination [https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination]  In this Patreon bonus episode, Rachel Bernstein discusses how difficult it can be to be the lone dissenting voice when others admire a narcissistic partner or cult leader. She describes serving on a jury involving an unhoused African American man accused of a store break-in based on grainy security footage, where other jurors argued the evidence was “close enough” and pushed for a quick unanimous verdict to avoid discomfort. When Rachel insisted there wasn’t enough evidence, they faced shunning and personal attacks, which strengthened their resolve. The experience is used to illustrate scapegoating, social pressure, and how crucial it is for friends and family to reassure isolated people in controlling or cultic situations that they’re not alone and safe to change their minds.  Connect with us on social media:  ⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠ [https://linktr.ee/indoctrination] Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more:  https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠ [https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination] Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION [https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATIO] Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here: ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠ [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS] Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation:  https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm [https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm] Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4 [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4] Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore: https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign [https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign] Journal App:  https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html [https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html] Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here: https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html [https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html] IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant: ⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about [https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about] Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands [https://redcircle.com/brands]