DI Voices #10: Morgan Hay

What is the Role of Field Testing in Direct Instruction? with Owen Engelmann

Welcome back to The Direct Instruction Podcast — I’m your host, Dr. Zach Groshell. If you’re new here, this show is about Big DI — Direct Instruction as a science of teaching. We look at real implementation, talk with people building and refining DI programs, and get practical about what it takes to engineer instruction that reliably works for students. If this is your first time tuning in, take a look through the back catalogue — there’s a growing library of conversations with researchers, trainers, curriculum developers, and practitioners from across the DI world. Today I’m joined by Owen Engelmann of Engelmann-Becker Corporation, the curriculum development organization founded by Siegfried Engelmann and Wesley Becker that has spent decades designing and field testing Direct Instruction programs. Owen has worked extensively in the development and revision of DI materials, carrying forward the engineering tradition behind some of the most thoroughly tested instructional programs ever created. Direct Instruction itself emerged from the work of Siegfried Engelmann and Wesley Becker in the 1960s and became known for its highly systematic approach [https://www.nifdi.org/what-is-di/basic-philosophy.html] to curriculum design and field testing.   This episode is an inside look at field testing — the process at the heart of how DI programs are actually built. Owen walks us through how an initial field-test version is created, why programs are only written a few weeks ahead of the field, and what happens when real students encounter a script for the very first time. We get concrete about the revision cycles that shape programs lesson by lesson: who’s in the room, what gets recorded, how student errors are interpreted, and how a single moment of confusion can trigger a rewrite of an example, an exercise, or even an entire sequence. We also explore the deeper diagnostic challenges behind the process. How do developers distinguish between a flaw in the script and a flaw in delivery? What kinds of student errors signal a local issue versus a deeper structural problem in the program design? And what standards of evidence are strong enough to justify a revision? Along the way, Owen shares stories from the field — moments where a child’s unexpected response exposed a hidden ambiguity or rewrote an instructional sequence entirely. This conversation offers a rare look at the extraordinary amount of iteration, observation, and engineering discipline required to make Direct Instruction programs appear seamless in the classroom. ---------------------------------------- I’m also looking forward to attending this year’s National Direct Instruction Conference and Institutes in Eugene, Oregon [https://www.nifdi.org/training-events/national-di-conference-eugene.html] — packed sessions, amazing block parties, and the kind of hallway conversations that stay with you. At last year’s event, I filmed a few mini YouTube reflections and quick interviews, and those links are in the show notes. If you’re implementing DI or thinking about getting started, I strongly recommend reaching out to NIFDI — the National Institute for Direct Instruction — at www.nifdi.org [https://www.nifdi.org/]. They are the gold standard for DI coaching, training, and ongoing implementation support. CAN’T GET ENOUGH CONTENT? Over on his Substack [https://douglascarnine.substack.com/p/history-teach-it-and-learn-from-it], Doug Carnine has been writing about one of education’s biggest recurring problems: the field’s inability to preserve and build on what it already knows. In “History: Teach It and Learn from It,” Carnine revisits a 30-year-old research program on teaching U.S. history and argues that today’s debates about knowledge, primary sources, memorization, and inquiry are often rediscoveries of ideas that were already studied decades ago. It’s a fascinating companion piece to this episode’s conversation about field testing, instructional design, and the importance of cumulative professional knowledge. https://douglascarnine.substack.com/p/history-teach-it-and-learn-from-it [https://douglascarnine.substack.com/p/history-teach-it-and-learn-from-it] You may also want to check out the recent NIFDI webinar Science of Reading: Explicit Fundamental Language Instruction to Improve Reading Comprehension, presented by Kurt Engelmann and the NIFDI team, along with my follow-up blog post unpacking the instructional design principles behind the lessons. These focus on the engineering moves that make DI’s approach to language comprehension so distinctive — cumulative review, mediated scaffolding, concept sequencing, and teaching reasoning directly through carefully controlled examples.   https://educationrickshaw.com/2026/04/15/the-instructional-design-behind-dis-approach-to-language-comprehension/ [https://educationrickshaw.com/2026/04/15/the-instructional-design-behind-dis-approach-to-language-comprehension/] CONTACT ZACH GROSHELL FOR SPEAKING AND CONSULTING HERE [https://educationrickshaw.com/contact/]

What is the Baltimore Curriculum Project? with Laura Doherty

Welcome back to The Direct Instruction Podcast — I’m your host, Dr. Zach Groshell. If you’re new here, this show is about Big DI — Direct Instruction as a science of teaching. We look at real implementation, talk with people running DI in schools around the world, and get practical about delivering faultlessly designed curriculum programs. If this is your first time tuning in, take a look through the back catalogue — there’s a growing library of conversations with DI implementers, trainers, and practitioners. Today I’m joined by Laura Doherty, President and CEO of the Baltimore Curriculum Project (BCP)—Maryland’s largest operator of neighborhood PK–8 public charter schools and one of the longest-running Direct Instruction networks in the United States. Laura and her team have spent decades implementing DI with real fidelity in high-poverty neighborhood schools, building a culture where carefully engineered instruction and warm, community-centered relationships go hand in hand. We get into how BCP first adopted Direct Instruction, what it feels like to walk into a DI classroom in Baltimore, and how students experience the structure, pace, and clarity of DI as something genuinely empowering. Laura talks about the support system around teachers—training, coaching, and data use—which makes high-fidelity DI sustainable rather than brittle. We zoom out to the wider school culture at BCP and talk about what it means to be recognized with NIFDI’s Silver Star Award, and how that recognition shapes their vision for expanding and deepening DI in Baltimore’s neighborhood schools. I’m looking forward to attending this year’s National Direct Instruction Conference and Institutes in Eugene, Oregon [https://www.nifdi.org/training-events/national-di-conference-eugene.html] — packed sessions, amazing block parties, and the kind of hallway conversations that stay with you. At last year’s event, I filmed a few mini YouTube reflections and quick interviews, and those links are in the show notes. If you’re implementing DI or thinking about getting started, I strongly recommend reaching out to NIFDI — the National Institute for Direct Instruction — at www.nifdi.org [https://www.nifdi.org/]. They are the gold standard for DI coaching, training, and ongoing implementation support. CAN’T GET ENOUGH CONTENT? Over on Progressively Incorrect, we have a fascinating conversation with Marty Siegel—Professor Emeritus of Informatics and Instructional Systems Technology and a pioneer whose career bridges early Direct Instruction, PLATO, human–computer interaction, and today’s AI-driven tools. Drawing on decades of work at the intersection of instruction, engineering, and technology, Marty helps connect the dots between Engelmann-style design, large-scale computer-based learning, and the future of edtech. > S5E09: Marty Siegel on Direct Instruction Engineering and the Future of EdTech [https://educationrickshaw.com/2025/11/23/s5e09-marty-siegel-on-direct-instruction-engineering-and-the-future-of-edtech/] CONTACT ZACH GROSHELL FOR SPEAKING AND CONSULTING HERE [https://educationrickshaw.com/contact/]

How Are Educators Worldwide Using Direct Instruction? with Jessica Jessica Colleu Terradas and Jon Owen

Welcome back to The Direct Instruction Podcast — I’m your host, Dr. Zach Groshell. If you’re new here, this show is about Big DI — Direct Instruction as a science of teaching. We look at real implementation, talk with people running DI in schools around the world, and get practical about delivering faultlessly designed curriculum programs. If this is your first time tuning in, take a look through the back catalogue — there’s a growing library of conversations with DI implementers, trainers, and practitioners. I’ve just returned from the National Direct Instruction Conference and Institutes in Eugene, Oregon [https://www.nifdi.org/training-events/national-di-conference-eugene.html] — packed sessions, amazing block parties, and the kind of hallway conversations that stay with you. I filmed a few mini YouTube reflections and quick interviews, and those links are in the show notes. If you’re implementing DI or thinking about getting started, I strongly recommend reaching out to NIFDI — the National Institute for Direct Instruction — at www.nifdi.org [https://www.nifdi.org/]. They are the gold standard for DI coaching, training, and ongoing implementation support. With the momentum still fresh from Eugene, today we launch a special two-part international episode with two guests doing serious Direct Instruction work across the globe: First up is Jessica Colleu Terradas [https://youtu.be/ZWgcJhEGWm4?si=0tj-Mt8MMekuKNG8], joining us from Australia. She supports DI at a system level, and she’s been leading Spelling Mastery and other literacy work using Direct Instruction programs. She’s deeply involved in helping schools build teacher precision and DI fidelity in real classrooms. Then we’ll hear from Jon Owen [https://x.com/JonOwenDI]in the UK, who leads Corrective Mathematics groups and works with schools to bring DI interventions to students. He’s part of a growing movement to deliver high-fidelity DI math instruction to learners who’ve been underserved by traditional approaches, and we get into what that rollout looks like in a UK context. It’s a sharp look at how Engelmann’s design travels, adapts, and stays rooted in student outcomes across very different systems. Let’s get into all this and more with Jessica and Jon. CAN’T GET ENOUGH CONTENT? Over on Progressively Incorrect, we have a powerful episode with two of the most influential voices in literacy education today—Linda Diamond and Paige Pullen. With decades of experience in education and Direct Instruction, Linda and Paige bring clarity to the evidence-based education movement and the science of reading in particular. > S5E02: Linda Diamond & Paige Pullen on Connecting Learning, Literacy, and Instruction [https://educationrickshaw.com/2025/09/15/s5e02-linda-diamond-paige-pullen-on-connecting-learning-literacy-and-instruction/] CONTACT ZACH GROSHELL FOR SPEAKING AND CONSULTING HERE [https://educationrickshaw.com/contact/]

DI Voices #11: Kurt Engelmann

I’m thrilled to share a new project straight from the heart of this year’s National Direct Instruction Conference and Institutes — a new YouTube playlist I’ve put together called DI Voices. Armed with just my phone and a little persistence, I tracked down educators between sessions (no small feat at this amazing, high-energy event!) to capture bite-sized, on-the-ground conversations about what Direct Instruction looks like in real schools, with real students, and real support. In this mini-episode, Kurt Engelmann, President and CEO of the National Institute for Direct Instruction, offers his closing reflections on another incredible NIFDI Conference. From celebrating the global DI community to reaffirming the mission of high-fidelity implementation, Kurt shares a message of gratitude, clarity, and continued commitment to the work ahead. 🌐 [https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/1f310.png] Learn more about NIFDI support: www.nifdi.org [https://www.nifdi.org] These mini-episodes aren’t slick or scripted — they’re raw, real, and packed with insight. You’ll hear from teachers, principals, researchers, and NIFDI team members who are doing the work and generously sharing their experiences. 🎬 [https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/1f3ac.png] Watch the playlist here: DI Voices on YouTube [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh1xxmQ8V6XJfKP8UhIslNzbi7ByNYAsk&si=8PYVOhVjtqQvwNHL] ---------------------------------------- DI Voices is part of The Direct Instruction Podcast: * 🎧 [https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/1f3a7.png] Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/search/The%20Direct%20Instruction%20Podcast] * 🍎 [https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/1f34e.png] Apple [https://podcasts.apple.com/] * ▶ [https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/25b6.png] YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh1xxmQ8V6XJfKP8UhIslNzbi7ByNYAsk] * 📦 [https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/1f4e6.png] Amazon [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/]

DI Voices #10: Morgan Hay

I’m thrilled to share a new project straight from the heart of this year’s National Direct Instruction Conference and Institutes — a new YouTube playlist I’ve put together called DI Voices. Armed with just my phone and a little persistence, I tracked down educators between sessions (no small feat at this amazing, high-energy event!) to capture bite-sized, on-the-ground conversations about what Direct Instruction looks like in real schools, with real students, and real support. In this mini-episode, Morgan Hay of the Baltimore Curriculum Project offers a behind-the-scenes look at a network that’s been using Direct Instruction for decades. She shares how the family-like ethos of the organization drives deep commitment to students, staff, and fidelity of implementation — and why DI remains central to their success story. 🌐 [https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/1f310.png] Learn more about NIFDI support: www.nifdi.org [https://www.nifdi.org] These mini-episodes aren’t slick or scripted — they’re raw, real, and packed with insight. You’ll hear from teachers, principals, researchers, and NIFDI team members who are doing the work and generously sharing their experiences. 🎬 [https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/1f3ac.png] Watch the playlist here: DI Voices on YouTube [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh1xxmQ8V6XJfKP8UhIslNzbi7ByNYAsk&si=8PYVOhVjtqQvwNHL] ---------------------------------------- DI Voices is part of The Direct Instruction Podcast: * 🎧 [https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/1f3a7.png] Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/search/The%20Direct%20Instruction%20Podcast] * 🍎 [https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/1f34e.png] Apple [https://podcasts.apple.com/] * ▶ [https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/25b6.png] YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh1xxmQ8V6XJfKP8UhIslNzbi7ByNYAsk] * 📦 [https://s0.wp.com/wp-content/mu-plugins/wpcom-smileys/twemoji/2/72x72/1f4e6.png] Amazon [https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/]