From Boots the Chemist to Lewis Hamilton's Boardroom - Dr. Hayaatun Sillem & Jimmy McLoughlin OBE

From Boots the Chemist to Lewis Hamilton's Boardroom - Dr. Hayaatun Sillem & Jimmy McLoughlin OBE

This week, a special crossover episode: Jimmy's Jobs of the Future meets What We Don't Know. Hayaatun Sillem spent eight years as CEO of the Royal Academy of Engineering - the first woman, and the first person in over two decades, to hold the role. Before that: 8 years of biochemistry, a walkout from the lab that ended her PhD overnight, and a stint advising Parliament on everything from forensic science to carbon capture. She also co-chaired Lewis Hamilton's commission on the representation of Black people in UK motorsport, and is now a founding trustee of his charity, Mission 44. In this conversation, Jimmy and Hayaatun cover the moment people mistook her for anyone but the CEO, the leadership skill she thinks is most underrated, the decision to leave a job she loved while she was still doing her best work, and why she thinks "more jazz than classical" is the only way to lead through uncertainty now. 🔗 Watch more from Jimmy's Jobs of the Future: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxoL7OXNn-JuGzZj7LQrtIA/ — What We Don't Know is a podcast about better leadership in a crazy, uncertain world, co-hosted by Hayaatun Sillem CBE and Matt Brittin CBE, produced in partnership with Boxlight Creative Studio. If you have any questions or want to come on the show, email us at: whatwedontknow@boxlight.io ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ ---- TIMESTAMPS Timestamps 00:00 — Intro 01:00 — First job: Boots the Chemist, £2.32 an hour 01:09 — Becoming head girl 01:12 — The lab walkout that ended her PhD 01:15 — Parliament and the Science & Technology Select Committee 01:22 — What the Royal Academy of Engineering actually does 01:26 — Working with Lewis Hamilton 01:32 — Becoming CEO — "So what is it you do here?" 01:35 — The most underrated leadership skill 01:39 — Splitting the leadership team 01:41 — Deciding when to leave 01:43 — "More jazz than classical" — how leadership has changed 01:44 — What's next: starting a new venture, "back yourself" 01:50 — Quick fire round 01:53 — Most embarrassing moment as a leader 01:55 — What she failed at 01:59 — Is AI overhyped? 02:01 — What separates great from exceptional 02:04 — Outro ---- Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

From Leaving Dyson to The Washing Machine Project | Navjot Sawhney

What Washing Machines Teach Us About Leadership | Navjot Sooni & The Washing Machine Project This time Hayaatun is joined by Navjot Sawhney, founder of The Washing Machine Project, about how engineering and leadership intersect through a mission to reduce the unpaid labor of hand-washing clothes. Nav describes being raised by his mother and sisters after his father died when he was eight, early leadership roles encouraged by his mother, and values of Sikh seva and Jugaad problem-solving. After working at Dyson, he quit to work with Engineers Without Borders in India, where he met Divya, whose lack of electricity and running water inspired him to create a manual washing machine. The patented flat-pack Divya machine saves 75% of time and 50% of water, has impacted over 100,000 lives, won Time Invention of the Year, and is scaling with partners like Whirlpool and JCDecaux, aiming to reach 1 million people by 2030. 00:00 Intro 00:27 Meet Nav 02:45 Founder Life Today 03:52 Curious Childhood Roots 05:24 Loss and Raised by Women 07:12 Responsibility as Leadership 10:13 Seva Scouts and Service 11:26 Engineering and Jugaad 13:08 Dyson Dream and Culture 16:23 Purpose Crisis and Leap 19:49 India Fieldwork Reality 23:07 Washing Machine Born 26:41 Scale of the Problem 28:12 Humanitarian Training Tests 29:42 Divya Machine Impact 30:37 Leading a Blended Movement 31:12 Building a Movement 33:26 Keeping Divya Central 35:08 Billboards and Partnerships 36:41 Frugal Innovation Matters 39:21 Identity and Team Space 40:52 Resilience and Chardikala 43:58 Learning to Scale Leadership 46:06 Aspirations and Legacy 48:01 Salad Spinner Origins 49:03 Iterating with User Feedback 51:20 Pitching and Funding Reality 54:01 People Who Inspire 55:18 Quick Fire Round 01:00:08 Reflections Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Why Coachability Beats Talent (And It Costs Your Promotions) | Nationwide former CEO Joe Garner

Joe Garner (Ex-CEO Nationwide) on Leading Through Crisis, Values-Driven Culture & Sustainable Performance Hayaatun interviews Joe Garner, former CEO of Nationwide Building Society (and previously at HSBC and Openreach), now an advisor to CEOs across the private and public sectors and the royal household. Garner traces formative experiences from age 11, his early leadership through rowing, and career lessons from P&G’s principle-led culture, a brief command-and-control dotcom stint, and the fast-paced environment at Dixons/Currys. He describes empowerment at HSBC via a signed “blank” £3m marketing spend and explains how crises like the financial crisis and COVID drove introspection about ethics and decision-making. Joe argues business overuses incentives and fear versus motivating through purpose, potential and play, and shares removing variable incentives at Nationwide. He emphasizes self-discipline, stopping before “finishing,” staying balanced, coachability (growth mindset), culture, and transitioning from workmates to playmates via sport. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Blank Check Leadership 00:42 Welcome to the Show 01:25 Meet Joe Garner 02:35 Life at Nationwide 04:21 Childhood Turning Point 07:22 Rowing Into Leadership 08:58 First Jobs and Values 10:39 Culture Clash Startup 12:22 Retail to Banking Leap 15:12 Crisis and Decision Ethics 16:53 The Private Lessons Book 18:42 Motivation Beyond Bonuses 24:19 Leading Under Pressure 27:56 Wolves and Wise Sayings 28:19 Wolf Proverbs Wisdom 29:16 Early Alarm Optimization 32:17 Discipline CEO Tradeoffs 35:02 Sport After CEO Life 38:07 Coachable Growth Mindset 40:41 CEO Coaching Framework 42:34 Stop Before Finish 44:15 Finance Culture Manosphere 46:57 Quick Fire Reflections 51:08 Episode Takeaways Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

The Tech Industry Forgot That Women Exist | Dr Anne-Marie Imafidon

Women in tech, AI bias, gender inequality, and the future of work Dr Anne-Marie Imafidon pulls no punches. Child prodigy, STEMettes founder, Countdown arithmetician, and government adviser on women in technology. She built STEMettes from £300 to £1.2 million. She watched the internet lose its mind over a Black woman doing maths on daytime TV. And she's spent 13 years trying to fix a tech industry that keeps building products that forget half the world exists. In this episode: why tolerating a brilliant jerk is a leadership failure. What leaders actually mean when they say they "can't find" female talent. Why crash test dummies based on women's bodies only arrived in 2025. And what a portfolio career looks like when you're genuinely living one. We also get into work, life, and legacy as a single equation - and why her definition of success has nothing to do with status. Dr Anne-Marie Imafidon - Head STEMette, DSIT Women in Tech Envoy, Chancellor of Glasgow Caledonian University, former Countdown arithmetician. Chapters: 00:00 Intro 00:30 Meet Anne-Marie Imafidon 02:35 Life as a Multi-Hyphenate 05:07 Balancing Time and Legacy 10:48 The Child Prodigy Myth 16:53 Opportunity Not Talent 20:45 Careers Advice and Pivots 24:55 School Trip Dog Drama 28:34 First Lessons in Leadership 32:56 Starting STEMettes Origins 35:46 Launching Stemettes 36:56 From Side Project to Scale 39:15 Tech Power and Bias 43:37 Leaders Fix the System 47:57 Inclusive Rooms That Worked 51:52 Countdown Behind the Scenes 56:44 Representation and Backlash 01:02:22 Future Skills for Work 01:07:27 What Comes Next 01:09:42 Quickfire and Wrap Up 01:13:27 Host Reflections and Farewell Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

What David Miliband & The Nudge Unit Taught Me About Leadership | Ravi Gurumurthy, Nesta CEO

Ravi Gurumurthy on Leading Nesta: Missions, Policy, Experimentation, and Intrinsic Motivation Welcome to What We Don't Know. The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world. Today, Hayaatun is joined by Jimmy McLoughlin OBE, host of ‪@jimmysjobs‬ [https://www.youtube.com/@jimmysjobs], to chat with Ravi Gurumurthy, CEO of Nesta, about leading mission-driven innovation in an uncertain world. Ravi explains Nesta’s three “moonshot” missions - halving obesity, achieving net zero homes, and closing the school-readiness gap for children on free school meals, and shaping policy from practical learning. Ravi also reflects on his background in Burnley, early rebellious leadership, experiences of racism, and a rapid rise in the civil service, including work on Every Child Matters, the Children Act 2004, and the Climate Change Act. We also cover policymaking’s short-termism, better use of data and trials, how AI and synthetic data could help, learning from failure through “crash testing,” the importance of dosage and numbers, and why leaders should focus on intrinsic motivation over incentives. Chapters: 00:00 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E] Intro 01:52 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=112s] Meet Ravi and Nesta 06:46 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=406s] CEO Role and Missions 09:17 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=557s] Family Roots and Oxford 12:21 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=741s] Early Leadership and Identity 14:18 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=858s] Fast Track in Government 16:17 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=977s] Mentors and Learning Leadership 18:33 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=1113s] Policy Horizons and Data 26:29 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=1589s] AI and Synthetic Data 29:06 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=1746s] Experimentation and Failure 30:08 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=1808s] Donor Embraces Findings 30:39 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=1839s] Blunkett Sack Letter 32:10 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=1930s] Risk Over Safety 33:40 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=2020s] Ungovernable Leadership 34:42 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=2082s] Rituals For Failure 35:54 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=2154s] Crash Testing Ideas 37:01 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=2221s] CEO As Thought Leader 40:03 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=2403s] Measuring Social Impact 41:49 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=2509s] MacKay Numbers Not Adjectives 43:56 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=2636s] Preparing For Policy 46:30 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=2790s] Motivation Beyond Incentives 47:39 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=2859s] Insecurity And Identity 49:03 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=2943s] Future Career Paths 51:08 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=3068s] Quick Fire Round 53:59 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=3239s] Dogs And Social Capital 54:55 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=3295s] Change Is Harder Than Thought 55:54 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws5BQY9Bq1E&t=3354s] Hosts Reflect And Wrap Subscribe to not miss an episode! ▶️ ⚡️ Powered by Boxlight.io https://www.boxlight.io/ [https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbkI4c3JOb3hacVYtb2Z3ZFhlZnRFTXo5WktKZ3xBQ3Jtc0tuTmF2UExGTzZSX19lTy1uSkpBVzdPc1hMVkRfZ2NsWU9YVUNENjZndFdFdm9BQ0ZXMFR2RE5EMW1MbGJhSjRreVR3U2NHV25jbTVyWEF6ekswbEsxYktOaUFod01rUjNkMUw1MWpvTGxiX3hkbDJNRQ&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxlight.io%2F&v=ws5BQY9Bq1E] Credits: Producer: Sunny Winter Producer: Thuy Dong Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]