Divorce Hacker: Survive to Thrive

Joint Petition Process for Divorce and Legal Separation - A New California Law

Key Points, Top Takeaways and Memorable Quotes -  “They’re committed to resolving it without ever going to court and doing it in a collaborative, consensual manner.” - Jeff at 6:22  “This idea that one person is filing for a divorce and the other’s responding to it. In many ways, does set the tone for the entire divorce.” - Jeff at 9:50 “Inherent in mediation and collaborative divorce is this idea that it’s going to be their agreement, that they are going to work it out on their own.” - Jeff at 11:37 “It’s really setting the stage for, ‘Here’s what we’d like to see happen. Ideally we are going to commit to trying to reach an agreement, commit to self determination and making these decisions ourselves and commit to a less threatening start of a process.’ So it really sets the stage. The process is designed to be protective.” - Jennifer at 13:59 “Balance between creating a process where people work together but also keeping all the protections in place so no one is ever gonna waive any legal rights when they’re starting a joint petition process.” -Jeff at 27:53 “Clients love it.” - Jeff at 28:33 Guest Bio - Jeffery has been practicing family law since 1996 and is certified as a Specialist in Family Law by The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization [http://ls.calbar.ca.gov/LegalSpecialization/LegalSpecialtyAreas/FamilyLaw.aspx].  His family law practice focuses exclusively on consensual dispute resolution, including mediation and collaborative divorce. Los Angeles Magazine recognized him as a Super Lawyer [http://www.superlawyers.com/about/selection_process.html] for 2011 – 2025 and a Super Lawyers Rising Star [http://www.superlawyers.com/about/selection_process.html] for 2005 – 2010.  Jeffery received a Eureka Award in 2019 from Collaborative Practice California, in recognition of his contributions to the field of collaborative divorce in the state of California.  Jeffery co-authored Los Angeles County Local Rule 5.26, the most comprehensive collaborative practice rule in the state of California.   Prior to founding Jacobson Family Law and Mediation, Jeffery was a partner at Jacobson Scully, LLP, with offices in the South Bay and West Los Angeles.  Prior to going into private practice in 2003, he served as Executive Director of Levitt & Quinn Family Law Center, a nonprofit law firm which provides family law services to low-income individuals in Los Angeles.  He began his legal career at the family law and mediation firm of Mosten & Tuffias. Jeffery is the past chair of the Family Law Section of the Beverly Hills Bar Association [http://www.bhba.org/Committees_Sections/flaw_excomm.htm] and served as president of the Los Angeles Collaborative Family Law Association.  He previously served multiple terms on the Executive Committee of the Family Law Section of the Los Angeles County Bar Association.  He currently serves on the Board of Directors of Levitt & Quinn.  He is a member of A Better Divorce and Los Angeles Westside Collaborative Divorce Professionals, interdisciplinary groups of professionals in Los Angeles and the South Bay committed to non-court solutions for family law matters. Jeffery has delivered numerous presentations and served as a panelist in programs related to a variety of substantive family law issues, in addition to programs related to family law mediation and collaborative divorce, for the Los Angeles County Bar Association, Beverly Hills Bar Association, State Bar of California, Association for Family and Conciliation Courts, Los Angeles Collaborative Family Law Association, UCLA School of Law, USC School of Law, Loyola Law School and many other entities.  Jeffery graduated with highest honors from the University of California at Berkeley in 1992, and was recognized as Outstanding Undergraduate in Political Science.  He received his J.D. from UCLA Law School in 1996.  Jennifer Winestone, Esq., LLM (ADR) is the founder of Winestone Mediation,PC, where she focuses on helping families resolve complex separation, divorce, and child custody disputes. Having lived and practiced law for the first half of her career in Canada before relocating to Southern California, Jennifer brings a perspective that is both distinctive and deeply practical. Her professional life sharpened her problem-solving skills and reinforced her belief that even the most entrenched conflicts can be navigated with creativity, patience, and empathy. Jennifer earned her LL.M. in Dispute Resolution from the renowned Straus Institute at Pepperdine University School of Law, following her J.D. from the University of Ottawa and her undergraduate degree from the University of Western Ontario. She is certified in Collaborative Family Law and New Ways for Families and is admitted to the California State Bar, with prior admission to the Law Society of Upper Canada. A highly engaged leader in the dispute resolution community, Jennifer has served on the executive committee of the Beverly Hills Bar Association’s Mediation Section, sat on the board of the Los Angeles Collaborative Family Law Association, and acted as a Dispute Settlement Officer for the Los Angeles Superior Court. Jennifer established the curriculum for the Divorce and Family Mediation course at USC Law School, where she currently serves as adjunct professor.  She was recently honored as recipient of the 2025 Eureka Award from Collaborative Practice California, recognizing her contribution to Senate Bill 1427, which created a new joint petition process in California family law procedure.  Show Notes -  0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro 0:50 - Introducing Jeffery S. Jacobson & Jennifer Winestone 3:06 - Why Create this New Joint Petition? 8:11 - Does the Joint Petition Change the Overall Tone of Divorce? 10:53 - What is the Collaborative Process? 13:13 - The Joint Petition is Designed to be the Starting Point 14:50 - Protections and the Off-Ramp 18:01 - The Filing Fee & Maintaining Representation 22:13 - Joint Petition Limitations 24:28 - Exchanging Financial Information 28:09 - Jeff’s Experience Thus Far 29:50 - Future Considerations & Improvements  34:29  - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing For more about Ann Grant and Family Law Center of Southern California, please visit: https://www.famlawsc.com/ [https://www.famlawsc.com/]

Co-Parenting with Clarity: How to Communicate and Prioritize Your Child’s Wellbeing

Key Points, Top Takeaways and Memorable Quotes -  “Where can I make a direct impact?” 3:30 “My ex and I went to coparenting therapy and I recommend this to all clients that have a contentious relationship where there’s a child involved.” 6:25 “If this is really about your child, and you have to be reflective, you have to be introspective, then you will do everything and anything to ensure your child’s wellbeing.” 8:47 “When you communicate with your problematic ex, you need to keep it short, simple, sweet because you have to keep in mind that every written communication that you have with your ex will be under the microscope, it will be viewed by the courts.” 10:01 “I say short, simple, sweet.” 10:56 “Let the other party’s actions speak for themselves.” 12:52 “I feel like the crux of a lot of these pitfalls comes from not giving yourself the space and the grace to properly grieve.” 13:20 “That’s a very common pitfall that I see is trying to dictate what the other parent does.” 15:39 “The courts want to maintain the status quo if it’s working for the children.” - Ann Grant 21:54 “It’s in the best interest of a child to have time with both parents.” 25:27 “One of the things that I had to do was really silence the voices of others’ around me.” 29:56 Guest Bio - Since 2013, Sarah has exclusively practiced family law across California, representing clients from case inception through trial. A skilled litigator who prioritizes efficient, strategic resolutions, she handles custody, support, move-away cases, and complex asset issues with care. Sarah also advises on prenups, postnups, and cohabitation agreements. As a child of refugees and a co-parent herself, she brings empathy, cultural awareness, and fierce advocacy to every case—treating her clients’ matters as if they were her own. Show Notes -  0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro 0:50 - Introducing Sarah Ho 1:40 - Why Did You Choose Family Law? 6:06 - How Does Your Personal CoParenting Experience Impact Your Work with Clients? 9:11 - Helpful Communication Skills When Coparenting with a Problematic Ex 13:09 - Biggest Mistake Divorcing & Separating Parents Make 18:32 - 50/50 Custody & Issues Concerning A Child's Health, Safety, & Welfare 29:38 - Additional Considerations for CoParenting 32:49 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing For more about Ann Grant, Sarah Ho and Family Law Center of Southern California, please visit:  https://www.famlawsc.com/ [https://www.famlawsc.com/]

Communication Tools for Healthier Relationships from a Marriage and Family Therapist and a Divorce Attorney

Key Points, Top Takeaways and Memorable Quotes - “It’s being able to get to the root of communication, so that the emotion doesn’t get us off track.” 2:21 “If you as a receiver can let somebody feel understood, feel heard, there’s 90% of the problem.” 2:48 “When you’re the receiver in a conversation, in communication, your job is to keep everything about the sender.” 6:12 “If we can work together shoulder to shoulder, then we’re a team.” 10:11 “Neither one of us can be completely self-focused and expect a relationship to work.” 10:41 “For women in particular, the magic combination for communication is to be assertive and warm as opposed to aggressive.” - Ann @ 11:17 “If it’s not equally beneficial, then your approach was not assertive.” 20:13 “Getting through the divorce amicably, in a healthy, effective way, is simply more pleasant than fighting.” 21:24 “If you transact primarily with your partner, you’re going to have problems.  It’s going to become an arrangement.” 26:12 “If we think we are going to have a happy relationship, we must relate and not just transact.” 26:46 “If a transactional approach is to accomplish something, a relational approach is to hold concern for my partner.” 28:06 “Men naturally transact and women more naturally relate.” 31:59 “Every interaction we have with people is some degree of intimacy.” 39:22 “Sex addiction is not a problem with sex, it’s a problem with intimacy.” 44:46 “If you don’t keep your emotional intimacy more developed than your physical intimacy, then there’s going to be problems because physical intimacy lends itself more to a transaction and emotional intimacy is more relating to each other.” 46:00 “Hold off on the physical intimacy until we can develop more emotional intimacy.” 47:52 “Sex is more effectively used by reflecting that intimacy rather than creating it, so if there’s a bond between two people, sex can only reflect that bond. Not create the bond.” 49:43 “If you’re dealing with narcissism, I can’t change this person, but what I can change are the boundaries that I set, the boundaries that I keep, and I can work to become more assertive than passive.” 52:24 “Self care means I’m going to benefit people around me every bit as much as I’m benefitting myself, that’s why it’s still part of other-focused.” 53:49 “The protocol, in simple terms, is looking at the things that you want to accomplish, things that are going to make you a better person, the person that you want to be, and just tracking how much you’re doing these things versus the things that are drawing you away from that stuff.” 56:14 “If you have a narcissistic partner, it really helps you take the focus off them and puts it back on taking care of yourself.” 1:01:12 Guest Bio - Kevin's favorite parts of being a therapist are helping men get free of problem sexual behavior and helping people with their relationships. He's licensed as a marriage and family therapist and also opened a coaching practice for those who like a more-casual, less-fixed approach. He especially enjoys relationship coaching and recovery coaching. Show Notes - 0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro 0:49 - Introducing Kevin Bergen 1:15 - Effective Communication Tools for Couples 10:52 - Solutions for Passive Aggressive Communication 15:21 - How to Use the Interaction Dial with Your Clients 22:29 - How to Avoid the Roommate Phase in Marriage 34:51 - A Discussion on the Meaning of Intimacy 43:58 - Overcoming Sex Addiction 51:20 - How to Break Free From A Narcissist 55:25 - The Bergen Protocol: How to Achieve Your Goals 1:01:37 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing For more about Ann Grant and Family Law Center of Southern California, please visit: https://www.famlawsc.com/ Links & Where to Find Kevin - Clinical website: www.kevinbergen.com Coaching website: www.CourageousDecisions.com The Bergen Protocol by Kevin Bergen

How To Maintain Kindness, Respect, and Generosity in Your Divorce with Tom Sturges

Key Points, Top Takeaways and Memorable Quotes  “I had three main ideas I wanted to follow through my divorce; kindness, respect, and generosity.” 4:29 “Hey, we’re not going to be married anymore, now what?” 5:40 “My number one goal in getting divorced was to not be bitter.” - Ann @ 6:35 “I will give you 100% custody, without any strings attached and no no anger whatsoever, in exchange for 100% visitation.” 9:09 “I know what I was able to do was to let my relationship with my wife change.” 13:23 “Do everything you can to stay married. Respect your wife throughout every moment of this thing.  If you want to be generous, that’s fine, but don’t be stupid generous.” 27:44 “The couples that I’ve worked with in the collaborative process are by and far my happiest divorced clients.” - Ann @ 33:01 Guest Bio Tom Sturges is an icon in the music industry.  He served as President of Chrysalis Music and Head of Creative for Universal Music Publishing Group. He has been an active Grammy member for over 30 years.  He’s also authored 5 books and is a regular guest speaker and educator.  He is a professor at UCLA and father of 3 boys living in Los Angeles. Show Notes  0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro 0:49 - Introducing Tom Sturges 2:05 - Cracking the Code 3:35 - How Did You Make It A Good Divorce? 6:22 - Write One Check 13:18 - How the Relationship with My Wife Changed 19:28 - The Importance of Not Flaunting the New Girlfriend 24:00 - The Fellow in England Who Lost His Castle 28:14 - Thoughts on A Loveless Marriage & Staying Married for the Kids 34:13 - Scorched Earth Divorce Stories 38:57 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing For more about Ann Grant and MB Family Law, please visit: https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/ [https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/] Links & Where to Find Tom  Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-sturges-79512a55/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-sturges-79512a55/] IG - https://www.instagram.com/tomsturgesideas/ [https://www.instagram.com/tomsturgesideas/] Book A Good Divorce Starts Here by Tom Sturges  [https://amzn.to/3I4zCR0]

Run Like Hell—How to Escape and Heal from Trauma Bonds

Key Points, Top Takeaways and Memorable Quotes  “A trauma bond is a dysfunctional relationship between two emotionally connected people, and usually there’s a perpetrator and a victim.” 4:00 “The research shows that women will go back to their abuser 4-7 times before they actually leave.” 6:29 “There’s a symptom called cognitive dissonance that is caused by a trauma bond.” 6:51 “In therapy, you want to give the woman, or anybody, agency.” 9:07 “Being educated can support your empowerment to leave.” 10:25 “A trauma bond is traumatic, so trauma means anything that’s outside the realm of normalcy.” 11:57 “When you’ve been traumatized, the first thing you have to do is stabilize.” 12:27 “The yoga practice is helpful because it helps you ground down and get back into your body and out of your head.” -Ann @ 13:19 “Routine helps us also deal with anxiety.” 13:55 “That conscientious part is going to get you through.” 24:44 “We’ve been so focused on our partner when we’ve been in a trauma bond, really turn the mirror back on you and surround yours;f with like minded individuals that really get it” 26:20 “Where there’s fear, there’s transformation.” 29:45 “I found out that playing it safe was the most dangerous thing to do.” 30:25 Guest Bio At the age of twenty-two, Nadine's life took an unexpected turn when she married Jordan Belfort, the infamous stockbroker immortalized in the Hollywood hit "The Wolf of Wall Street." Initially, their union seemed like a modern-day fairytale, but beneath the surface, a dark reality began to unfold. As their bond tightened, Jordan's façade crumbled, revealing a complex web of infidelity, narcissistic abuse, insatiable greed, and a devastating drug addiction that transformed Nadine's dream into a harrowing nightmare. The turmoil of this traumatic relationship served as the catalyst for Nadine's remarkable journey. Fuelled by her determination to help others facing similar struggles, she pursued a path of healing and transformation. She received her Master's degree in Counseling and a Ph.D. in somatic psychotherapy, Dr. Nae established a thriving private practice. Her office quickly became a sanctuary for women who shared hauntingly familiar tales of entanglement with pathological lovers (PLs), trapped in the clutches of trauma bonds. What began as a personal mission to facilitate healthy relationship development evolved into an impactful vocation. Over six years, Dr. Nae immersed herself in the study of trauma bond relationships, synthesizing her academic foundation with the wisdom gleaned from her patients' stories. Through this journey, she ascended to the status of a recognized authority in the realms of narcissistic abuse, trauma bonds, and complex PTSD. She recently wrote a book, "Run Like Hell: A Therapist's Guide to Recognizing, Escaping, and Healing from Trauma Bonds," scheduled for publication on January 9th, 2024 (available for pre-order on Amazon). In this seminal guide, she shares both her personal narrative and the wealth of knowledge acquired over the years. Readers are granted insights into the psyche of the narcissistic pathological lover, a nuanced understanding of the traits that render certain women susceptible to their advances, and practical strategies for breaking free from the shackles of trauma bonds. Nadine's mission extends far beyond knowledge dissemination; it is a beacon of hope for those ensnared in the darkness. With her guidance, readers are empowered to transcend the clutches of trauma bonds, emerging as resilient "surthrivers" primed for healthy, meaningful relationships. She lives between New York and Florida with her husband of 22 years and their two dogs; she has four children and two grandchildren. And when she's not working, she loves to exercise, decorate, cook, and spoil her grandchildren. Show Notes  0:00 - Divorce Hacker Intro 0:49 - Introducing Nadine Macaluso 2:13 - Why Did You Write ‘Run Like Hell’? 3:27 - Explanation of the DSM Five & the Meaning of Trauma Bond 5:41 - Why Would Smart Women Return to the Abuser? 8:16 - Find a Therapist & An Accountability Person 11:46 - Supportive Practices for Women 14:25 - How Did You Get the Courage to Leave? 15:24 - Mental Health & Learned Helplessness 20:19 - The Pathological Lover Looks for Specific Personality Traits 25:07 - Advice to Women Searching for A Therapist 30:57 - If It’s Not For You, Do It For Your Children 32:43 - The Silver Lining 34:08 - Thank You & Divorce Hacker Closing For more about Ann Grant and MB Family Law, please visit: https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/ [https://www.mbfamilylawyers.com/] Links & Where to Find Nadine  www.drnae.com [http://www.drnae.com] https://linktr.ee/drnae [https://linktr.ee/drnae] IG - @therealdrnadine Tiktok - https://www.tiktok.com/@drnaelmft [https://www.tiktok.com/@drnaelmft] Youtube  [https://www.youtube.com/@TheRealDrNadine]