Holy Uncertain

What We Learned from Season One (And What’s Next)

After twelve episodes exploring faith, doubt, and everything in between, we’re taking a moment to reflect. What has changed in us? What questions are we still holding? And what’s next? In this Season One wrap-up, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod revisit the voices and ideas that shaped this first chapter—from rethinking how we read the Bible to expanding our understanding of the gospel, from stories of harm and healing to the hope that people can change. They reflect on what it means to listen with humility, to stay curious, and to let uncertainty open us up rather than shut us down. Whether you’ve been with us from the beginning or are just finding the show, this episode is an invitation: to keep asking honest questions, to make space for new perspectives, and to trust that you’re not alone in the process. Plus, we share what’s ahead for the next season and the topics we’re excited to explore. Spread the word about the podcast, catch up on episodes you’ve missed, and we’ll see you in about a month. Have a question or topic you want us to explore in future episodes? Email us: questions@holyuncertain.com [questions@holyuncertain.com]Holy Uncertain is a Blue Elevator [https://blueelevatorproductions.com] production.

Why Are Christians Divided About Justice? | Joash Thomas

Justice is central to the teachings of the Bible—so why has it become so contested within Christianity? In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by priest, theologian, and author Fr. Joash Thomas to discuss how history, culture, and power have shaped the Western church’s understanding of justice, and what might be lost when care for the vulnerable becomes secondary to ideology or certainty. Drawing from his own story—growing up in India as part of an ancient Christian tradition and later working within American politics—Joash offers a perspective that challenges the ways many of us have come to understand justice, faith, and what it means to follow Jesus. This conversation invites a broader, more global view of Christianity—one that learns from traditions outside the Western church and re-centers the life and teachings of Jesus as a call to love, humility, and care for others. If you’ve ever wondered why justice has become so complicated within the church—or felt disillusioned by the divide—this episode offers a thoughtful place to wrestle and reflect. Continue to learn from Joash Thomas: www.joashpthomas.com [http://www.joashpthomas.com]Instagram: @joashpthomas [https://www.instagram.com/joashpthomas/]Substack: Masala Chai Theology with Fr. Joash P. Thomas [https://joashpthomas.substack.com/]Read Joash’s Book: The Justice of Jesus [https://www.amazon.com/Justice-Jesus-Reimagining-Liberation-Wholeness/dp/1587436663]Have a question or topic you want us to explore? Email us: questions@holyuncertain.com [questions@holyuncertain.com]Holy Uncertain is a Blue Elevator [https://blueelevatorproductions.com] production.

What Can Mythology Teach Us About The Bible? | John Bucher

What can the study of stories teach us about the Bible? In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Chris McLeod and Lauren Ranzino are joined by mythologist, storyteller, and Executive Director of the Joseph Campbell Foundation, John Bucher, to explore how stories shape the way we understand faith, scripture, and the world around us. Together, they unpack what “myth” really means—and why it has less to do with something being false and more to do with how humans make meaning. Through conversation spanning everything from Harry Potter to ancient texts, John invites us to reconsider how we read the Bible: not just as history to be proven, but as story that can transform the way we see ourselves, God, and the world. Along the way, they wrestle with belief, doubt, and the role of storytelling in shaping a life of faith—asking what might become possible if we approached scripture with curiosity instead of certainty. If you’ve ever felt stuck between taking the Bible literally or leaving it behind entirely, this conversation offers a different way forward. Continue learning from John Bucher: www.tellingabetterstory.com [http://www.tellingabetterstory.com] Instagram: @tellingabetterstory [https://www.instagram.com/tellingabetterstory/]Joseph Campbell Foundation: https://www.jcf.org/ [https://www.jcf.org/] Read John’s Books: The Storytelling Almanac: A Weekly Guide To Telling A Better Story [https://shop.lightningsource.com/b/085?CWrqmAUpEYUwUTssEIMxqJLtPZuZkhc0WNBs0AwIJ06]And many more. [https://www.tellingabetterstory.com/books] Take John’s Courses: The Shared Heroes’ Journey: Myth and Social Change [https://roundtable.org/live-courses/history/the-collective-heros-journey-the-role-of-myth-in-societal-change]The Mystic Wizard of Oz [https://thelasttuesdaysociety.org/event/the-mystic-wizard-of-oz-john-bucher-zoom/]Have a question or topic you want us to explore? Email us: questions@holyuncertain.com [questions@holyuncertain.com] questions@holyuncertain.comHoly Uncertain is a Blue Elevator [https://blueelevatorproductions.com] production.

Good Friday Reflection

In place of our usual episode this week, we’re offering a short Good Friday reflection—an invitation to pause, to grieve, and to sit with what is broken before rushing to what comes next. Co-host Lauren Ranzino sits with the weight of a broken world, while holding onto both grief and hope. Today, we take a beat. We make space for what breaks our hearts. And we remember: this is not the end of the story. We’ll be back next week with a full episode. Have a question or topic you want us to explore? Email us: questions@holyuncertain.com [questions@holyuncertain.com]Holy Uncertain is a Blue Elevator [https://blueelevatorproductions.com] production.

Do We Need to Rethink Church? | Tommy Preson Phillips

What is church actually supposed to look like? In this episode of Holy Uncertain, hosts Lauren Ranzino and Chris McLeod are joined by pastor, author, and musician Tommy Preson Phillips to explore why so many people are rethinking the way church has been practiced. Tommy, co-author of Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ, shares why so many people are walking away from church—not because they’ve lost faith, but because they no longer see Jesus reflected in the systems they’ve inherited. Together, they examine how layers of tradition, power, and cultural assumptions have shaped modern church structures, and what it might look like to strip things back to something more honest, relational, and rooted in the way of Jesus. From the early church’s radically inclusive communities to the rise of institutional models, this conversation wrestles with what’s essential, what might be worth letting go of, and how spiritual community could be reimagined today. If you’ve ever felt disconnected from church but still long for faith, belonging, and a more authentic way of following Jesus, this episode offers a hopeful place to explore. Continue to learn from Tommy Preson Phillips: Substack [https://tommypresonphillips.substack.com] Instagram: @tommypresonphillips [https://www.instagram.com/tommypresonphillips/] Read Tommy’s Book: Invisible Jesus: A Book about Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ by Scot McKnight and Tommy Preson Phillips [https://www.amazon.com/Invisible-Jesus-Leaving-Church-Looking/dp/0310162319/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2LVTVLAUBDETR&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.aKnsUxdOtm8ihyLMeGpYjQ.haHybjcaUFL3g76oklpeCAoS29JX2Oujwsv3QMwlHNo&dib_tag=se&keywords=Tommy+Preson+Phillips&qid=1774578573&sprefix=tommy+preson+phillips%2Caps%2C116&sr=8-1] Listen to Tommy’s Music: www.presonphillips.com [http://www.presonphillips.com]Have a question or topic you want us to explore? Email us: questions@holyuncertain.com [questions@holyuncertain.com] Holy Uncertain is a Blue Elevator [https://blueelevatorproductions.com] production.