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The Business Revolution

Podcast af Cherry, Alan and Mik

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Podcast hosts Cherry, Alan and Mik are three consultants working independently in this field of transformation in Australia. In a series of interviews and segments they ask some of Australia’s leading experts, decision makers, sustainability officers, carbon accountants and employees how we make it happen – how we turn what is still just an idea, a mindset, into a genuine, serious and deep revolution and reinvention of how we do things in business.

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episode Episode 16: Beyond sustainability – a regenerative revolution cover

Episode 16: Beyond sustainability – a regenerative revolution

The Business Revolution Episode 16 In this episode of The Business Revolution, we explore the field of regenerative business with Tomi Winfree, a systems thinker and mentor with 25 years of experience across business, education, government, and community development. Tomi’s approach, grounded in regenerative practice, is about reconnecting people, businesses, and communities to what gives life meaning, enabling them to contribute to the well-being of their place, their people, and the future. Tomi shares how she helps individuals and businesses move beyond an extractive, top-down approach to one that is more dynamic, collaborative, and purpose-driven. She explains that real change happens by working with a diverse group of people within an organisation to focus on a single, tangible project, building capability through doing rather than following checklists. The conversation highlights how this regenerative mindset can be applied at three levels: * Individuals: By helping people reconnect with their unique essence and inner purpose, leading to personal and professional thriving. * Organisations: By helping businesses align their identity and purpose, fostering a culture of collaboration and coherence. * Communities: By engaging diverse stakeholders – including government, businesses, and Indigenous groups – to work together on local issues and create “thriving states”. Tomi shares a powerful example of her work on the Mornington Peninsula, where she is facilitating a grassroots alliance to care for the Wonga Arthur’s Seat escarpment. Tomi explains that these hard conversations are essential to overcome polarisation, build trust, and recognise that we have more in common than what separates us, ultimately ensuring a future for our species. ---------------------------------------- Audio version: ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- Episode 16 links 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐓𝐁𝐑 notes and transcript: www.businessrevolution.earth/businessrevolution16 [https://businessrevolution.earth/businessrevolution16] 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] This episode for download: audio mp3 [https://businessrevolution.earth/wp-content/uploads/2025/09/TheBusinessRevolution-episode016.mp3] 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐭𝐢𝐟𝐲: open.spotify.com/episode [https://open.spotify.com/episode/14CgCmuiw1z53W1UVITq43] 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐀𝐩𝐩𝐥𝐞 𝐏𝐨𝐝𝐜𝐚𝐬𝐭: podcasts.apple.com [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-16-beyond-sustainability-a-regenerative/id1736051723?i=1000725501308] 📺 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f4fa.png] 𝐘𝐨𝐮𝐭𝐮𝐛𝐞: video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TlJ_65tzxA] Social media posts: Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7370931912175046656] – Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/thebusinessrevolution/posts/pfbid0CUVugMSV6LkEuwvJYyirbaw2Dsr3x2bCtkmLrrRtSkEn4gQQCLGcgAUdY6knP671l] – Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/p/DOWzUDjk7Vs/] ---------------------------------------- TRANSCRIPT – EPISODE 16 Mik Aidt (00:00) Welcome – or welcome back – to The Business Revolution, the podcast where we are not afraid to say that we are rewriting the rules of business for a sustainable future. My name is Mik, your co-host. Cherry Ward (00:13) And I’m Cherry. Alan Taylor (00:14) And I’m Alan. Mik Aidt (00:15) We’re your guides on this journey to explore the intersection of business, sustainability and positive change. Cherry Ward (00:20) Each episode will bring you inspiring conversation with experts, entrepreneurs and changemakers who are proving that sustainability isn’t just good for the planet, it’s good for businesses too. Mik Aidt (00:31) We’re always on the lookout for innovative solutions and we’re sharing with you the practical strategies that we find and we’re discovering new trends in what is going to hopefully to shape this future of sustainable business. And that’s certainly very much what we aim to do today in this podcast episode. Jingle – signature song Cherry Ward (00:49) So grab a cuppa, settle in and get ready to be inspired. This is the business revolution. Mik Aidt (00:56) In this episode, we’re going to explore the field of regenerative business and learn what that could mean and how coaching and mentoring and consulting all can work together at three different levels. We’ll get into all the nitty gritty of that in just a moment. Cherry Ward (01:11) Today’s guest is a systems thinker, a regenerative practitioner, and a mentor with over 25 years of experience across business, education, government and community development. Alan Taylor (01:22) She helped shape the National Green Skills Agreement and has worked across a range of industries from business services to trades, the built environment and manufacturing, supporting professionals through vocational and continuing development. Mik Aidt (01:35) Tomi’s approach is grounded in regenerative practice, which is about reconnecting people, businesses and communities to what gives life meaning, nothing less. And they can contribute together to the wellbeing of the place, the people around them and the future which we are all a part of. Cherry Ward (01:53) Tomi is now leading Regenerative Mornington Peninsula where she supports individuals, teams and communities to move beyond overwhelm and reactivity into a place of clarity, contribution and deeper connection. Please welcome Tomi Winfree. Tomi Winfree (02:08) Hello everyone, thank you for having me this morning. Alan Taylor (02:12) Thank you for coming, Tomi. And we’d love to hear you share a little bit about what led you into this journey and what it actually means to you. Tomi Winfree (02:18) Yes, thanks, Alan. I have to say it’s been a long journey. After 25 years in sustainability, I have to say it wasn’t a big awakening, but it’s been a becoming. So it’s partly remembering, going back and remembering my own essence and the things that I’ve questioned as I’ve grown up. So questioning the systems that I’m a part of and questioning things about race, class, gender, religion, the things that power structures, the things that really kind of control how we think and what we do and what we choose to become. And so it was a bit of going back for me to see how I wanted to be in this world. So beyond sustainability is my journey beyond where I thought I was contributing and really trying to figure out what my purpose was in this life. So I hit a point where I was part of an extractive system, I felt. I was very top down. I was trying to put more and more control into the system to maintain and monitor and comply. And I realised that it wasn’t really working as well as we could be if we looked at it from a living system and a dynamic approach and what each unique business can contribute and each individual within that business and the uniqueness of their place. So that’s where my journey has started, just post-COVID and looking at who I’m becoming and what I’m doing, building my capacity and how I can contribute to all life thriving. Mik Aidt (03:51) So how does that look in your work life? I mean, how does that, what kind of support do you offer to people? Tomi Winfree (03:56) So I pull from regenerative practice and in that we work on individuals, so our own capacity and what we want to contribute. So I work with individuals one-on-one. I also work with businesses and organisations. So I look at what their purpose is. So how did they contribute to the place where they are? What is it that is unique about them? What’s their story? What’s their passion and purpose for contributing to a thriving living system around them and really getting to the heart of that, but also each individual within that business and how they can contribute to the business and that wider place. And then at a community level with community development, so working between government and business and community, but doing it, walking with them, walking with the group and co-creating from the ground up. So it’s emergent and we never know what’s gonna come out of it. Yeah, it’s a discovery of the journey together. So really looking at that identity and purpose of what that group’s coming together to do, to become. Alan Taylor (05:02) I can sort of hear a theme here in your own journey and you know that questioning in a constructive manner of where your journey is, where you want to be, what the systems are you’re offering, functioning in. And it seems like you’ve, it sounds like you’ve carried that across into your work you’re doing with others. How can we question that in a collaborative and constructive way to enable those changes together? What does that actually look like in practice? Perhaps a few stories would be interesting. Tomi Winfree (05:26) Yes, so I can talk about individual journeys or I can talk about collective journeys. Where would you like to start? Cherry Ward (05:34) let’s go with individual because I think, you know, it all starts with the individual, right? I think it’s like the interior condition of the individual before they go and have impact on the world and the collective journey. Tomi Winfree (05:47) Yeah, so there a couple of people that come to mind. Some of the first people I worked with and some of the stories that I draw from even to today. So one individual that I’ve helped is a photographer. So a really amazing woman and she had stepped away from her work due to physical health problems and she just kind of have lost her way and we connected and I helped her explore her past and the things that she could remember along her journey to the point where she was in her practice. And it really helped her reconnect with what she referred to as her inner voice. And I feel like everyone can relate to that, you know, what guides us, what our intuition and what gives us purpose, that feeling that you get when you know something’s right or you know it’s not. And making that choice at that moment, which way you want to go. And in the work that I did with her over eight weeks, yeah, we went back into those relationships that she’d had in the past and the work that she had done and really explored the things that drove her and gave her that passion. And she reconnected with herself and she’s now doing an amazing piece of work where she’s showcasing what people do when they go beyond retirement. And she’s really shining a light on the contribution that the older generation can make. and looking at that intergenerational work and being able to share that story of amazing individuals in our community that are contributing. So yeah, she’s really connected. Her relationship’s thriving, her work is thriving, and she feels like she’s waking up every day making a choice is what she said to me. She knew that, yeah, she just had to start listening to herself again and knowing that she could make a choice. Mik Aidt (07:30) And that’s the regenerative aspect of it that you sort of you helped to regenerate something that was in her. It was already there and then you just made it come back to life in a way. Tomi Winfree (07:40) That’s right. And that’s where we start is what is your unique essence? What is your unique contribution as much as what’s the business’s contribution? So it’s always a remembering, yeah, to going back and connecting with yourself. Yeah. Mik Aidt (07:54) So let’s hear maybe an example from the business world. You’ve helped businesses as well. And we think of ourselves as a business podcast, certainly with our title, The Business Revolution. So tell us about some businesses that you’ve worked with, some examples. Tomi Winfree (08:00) Yeah, so another example is a woman I worked with. She’s a regenerative architect, but she also has a furniture design business and reclaiming timber and making that into furniture. And she’s been doing that. I think she just went on her 25th anniversary herself on that journey. And over time, she’d really, I guess, lost focus. and working with her to reconnect with the purpose of her business. It was about the same time as circular economy came around, which I love. I love the simplicity of the way that that’s presented and there is a regenerative component to that. But in the marketplace, it was a question of how do I compete in this new market? This is what I’ve always done. It’s just the way that we do the business. It’s part of our story. Do I start changing what we’re doing to, you do we become a circular business even though we have been always? Yeah, so it just made her question a lot of things and also looking at how she was showing up in her life with her clients and I worked with her to basically look at what what she was wanting to do to make her business viable to reignite her passion in that and she was able to gain direction. So at that point in her life, she was kind of at a crossroads and felt kind of stuck and uncertain with the way that the market was changing. And we just reconnected to that, helped her reconnect with her business and find that joy in what she did and that joy in connecting with clients again. And even a little bit of exploration around another area of design that she’d been for some time but hadn’t really gotten into and after that work her business is thriving, her home life is thriving and yeah she’s really just enjoying life again. Alan Taylor (10:05) There’s a couple of really good words in there, joy and thriving. another thing is, to Mik’s point, this is the business revolution. But you’ve also demonstrated how this regenerative thinking is in ourselves, but that translates into business because you’ve mentioned a photographer and obviously the lady you just mentioned is in architecture. So we’re getting outside, we’re understanding that it all connects together. It’s not a linear one thing or the other that’s regenerative. Tomi Winfree (10:10) Hmm. Alan Taylor (10:33) looking after yourself, joy, thriving business can all fit together and get successes, not just in, for example, farming, which a lot of people will immediately go to when they think of regenerative. So it sort of opens up our eyes to different perspectives there. Tomi Winfree (10:48) It is, it is. And it’s an evolving. It’s that continual evolution of ourselves, of our business, of the community. So that dynamic system. Cherry Ward (10:59) Yeah, I’m really keen to understand, Tomi, like, are you what kind of practices, you know, perhaps you can share a strategy that teams might use because, you know, I love this whole regenerative concept. Both Alan and I do a lot of a bit of overlap in terms of the work that we do. And, you know, a lot of businesses are in that extractive mode, right. So if you think about a system it’s constantly on the go. There’s no downtime, there’s no time to regroup. If you think of bringing in nature and the seasonalities and so on. So what are some of the perhaps a tool or a strategy that you might use with the business that changes their way of thinking about it and changes their practice and being intentional? Tomi Winfree (11:43) We often start with the identity and purpose. it’s starting with that moment, but being able to come back and revisit it over and over again. But I think that really gives me a sense of what the business is working towards and bringing the whole group together. So a lot of people have leadership engagement that they do, but I believe that everyone in the business can be a leader in how they contribute. And so it’s really about bringing a diverse group of people together where you get that diversity, just like in an ecosystem is where you get some of the most amazing ideas. So bringing the whole group together, bringing all levels of the organisation together and whether it’s identifying a team that wants to do that together, the main aim that we try for is to find a project. What is it that the business wants to work on? So it’s something really tangible. It’s not a whole of organisational approach, but we really try to focus in on a single project, a single service, a single product. What is just one thing that we can focus on? Because doing that, the process that we work through, you build your capability by doing. Not by bringing something in and offering it to the business. I don’t do checklists, I don’t do templates, I do exploration. It’s really a deep dive into that purpose and identity and engaging each level of the organisation in that and that diverse team as to what they think the purpose and identity is and really be able to get that holistic viewpoint. And then from there, it’s about being able to help them hold the complexity of the whole. A lot of people get overwhelmed when it gets to that deep level work. They do want a recipe. They do want a quick fix. They want to be able to just get on with it and move on. But yeah, what we found is that that’s not really where the change happens. It happens with the individuals and with that group. So yeah, so we go through that process. We identify what they’re currently doing with that product or service. So a bit of a mapping exercise, how they work within the wider system outside of the business and how the inner part of the business works. And then we start to co-create what they would like to become. has to be a moment of reflection. It has to be a moment where you do take time out, where you really do step back and you reflect and then you come together and go, what is it that we want to become? And that becomes that identity and purpose. And so it becomes an alignment and coherence that is created between the whole organisation. The culture is really what you’re doing. So it’s about ensuring that everyone has that alignment. Mik Aidt (14:15) And this Tomi Winfree (14:19) It is very much so. I am under the strong belief and alignment that our ecosystems are essential. So if our ecosystem is not thriving, it’s impossible for a business to thrive. If we extract to the point that we have no resources, what business is what we have? So it’s really about ensuring that we are bringing life to wherever it is that we are, whether it’s where our business is situated in terms of the office itself or where we’re actually doing that business. So with those three lines of work, I talk about it as the individual, the organisation, and the community. So your community is whatever you draw the boundary around. So that’s part of the exploration as well. Where are you making that impact potential to be able to create life in the place where you’re doing business? Or an extension of that, where the people that you’re doing business with are doing business, or where that business is doing business? So you really expand beyond not just selling a widget, selling a product to an individual, but what is the meaning your product has in that individual’s life? What will be the difference to them? How do you contribute to their life thriving or to the ecosystem’s thrive ability? So, yeah. Mik Aidt (15:31) Which sounds very much like when we talk about the S in ESG, the social aspect and the social role that a community or that a business can have in a community. I was wondering, do you have some concrete examples of work you have done at that level, the community level? And also you talked about place, the physical environment I’m imagining. Do you have some concrete examples there? Tomi Winfree (15:52) Yes. So what I discovered through COVID, when we got to spend all that time in our places, I did a lot of walking, a lot of reflecting myself. And I realised after traveling outside of Australia, all around Australia and supporting business and education and government, I was really kind of done traveling. And I got really intimate with my backyard and really intimate with the community around me. And I started tapping into that and I started learning about it. I was so busy before then, I didn’t have the opportunity. I had no idea really what was going on around me besides my family and what we were involved in. So I started to get involved with the Mornington Peninsula and with the issues that were affecting the peninsula in terms of transport and education and government policy and housing. There’s quite a lot of issues where we are that can set an example as much as offer opportunity for the people where we are. So I started working with the Jermona Association a few years ago and engaging community business and government around opportunities to work together. And just in the last couple of years, we worked to create a community bid to develop an escarpment management plan for Arthur’s Seat. So it’s the Wonga Arthur’s Seat escarpment. I, at beginning of this podcast actually, I realised I didn’t talk about I’m on the land of the Bunurong people of the Kulin Nation on the Mornington Peninsula in Victoria. And that’s quite significant in a regenerative approach because that’s where we start. So looking at Wonga in terms of the significance to indigenous groups and looking at the businesses and the state government that’s a huge owner of the land and private landholders, as well as the community that cares for it. So I would say there’s a good 10 groups of environmental preservation, conservation, outdoor pursuits, recreation, all of these different groups that are users or care or have business on the escarpment, the highest point on the peninsula. So the Arthur’s Seat is the gondola that goes up and down from land, from the mountain to sea. And we worked to put a community bid together to develop that escarpment management plan and strategy because we wanted to look into the future. How do we care for the place now? How do we reduce bushfire exposure? How do we support regenerating that land, not just putting a fence around it and conserving it for all time, but actually being able to live in it. And it’s part of the UNESCO biosphere. So it’s part of one of the very few in Australia. And it’s really significant in that way as well. The biodiversity is one of the top in the state of Victoria. And we put in the community budget bid and the local government put out an expression of interest to 10 consultants to try to find an organisation that would take the work on. But unfortunately, I think it was too complex. There were too many stakeholders. There wasn’t one group and even the local government may not feel like it was that group that should have led it, that led that escarpment management plan because they don’t have much, I guess, significance in the planning and the requirements around that because it is partly state and it is private land. that are their businesses commercial businesses that are in the state park. So in the past there’s been two significant protests. So there’s been a protest against the reopening of the pioneer quarry with Hillview quarries. So an environmental protest against that because one of the areas, Sheepwash Creek is a significant area that they’ve been restoring through land care over the past I’d say 15, 20 years. And so they won that protest and that second quarry did not open up. Another protest is ongoing. It’s in the current planning stage with the extension of the Eagle chairlift. So there’s a lot of controversy over that. And then even most recently, the community, the art, Indigenous and climate action environmental community groups are protesting against the local government because that funding’s been cut recently by the local governments. There’s a lot of conflict in this area and we’ve managed to get a good 20 stakeholders, all those that I mentioned and others to come together and look at a grassroots alliance. So how does the government and the community and the businesses and the indigenous groups and all of the people who care about it because they belong to this place? it’s significant to them as individuals, how did they want to show up and care for it? Not because someone’s told them they need to or have to, or it’s a compliance or a planning requirement or anything else, but because we could take all of that energy and we could redirect it towards working together and creating a thriving ecosystem that people care for into the next generation and beyond. Alan Taylor (21:01) So sounds like you’re aiming there for what is a win-win in that it doesn’t have to be us them, as you say, regulation versus not regulated. It’s you’re looking at where it could be better for all. Tomi Winfree (21:12) Exactly. And it’s not about compromise and it’s not about, yeah, I guess backing down from things that are important. It’s about finding coherence. You how can we move forward together? What do we want to become? That’s a constant thing. So, you know, what is it the identity and the purpose of this group that we’re forming and how can we contribute to that? Mik Aidt (21:34) Hmm, it sounds so- Alan Taylor (21:35) It’s much easier thing to say than to actually achieve. It’s a lot of people can’t grasp the idea. You can have a win-win that you can get that sort of idea that you’re working together for something. But it’s wonderful that you’re getting those people on board to understand that it is possible and we can do that. So well done. Tomi Winfree (21:50) And it won’t be simple. It will be challenging every step of the way. And all I can hope for is that everyone keeps showing up and keeps building relationships and building trust. And that’s what gives us the will to be able to show up and do the work together. Mik Aidt (22:05) It sounds to me like we need your approach, in the bigger scheme of things with the fossil fuel people on one side and all the environmentalists and climate activists on the other side. And there’s really like an enemy war going on in a way where these people certainly cannot speak to each other and they build up a really sort of negative image of each other. Do you think that there’s a potential to use your method and your approach at that level? Tomi Winfree (22:34) Absolutely. think polarisation is probably the thing that is making things more difficult than anything else at this point. And we have more in common than we don’t. And I think if we just remember that we’re human and it is really our species that is at risk in all of this, and the world will go on surviving with or without us. And it’s really part of our responsibility to show up as timekeepers, as the people that know the history as the people that can understand the science and Indigenous wisdom and tap back into those knowledge systems and work together that is going to allow us to do this hard work. And I’m lucky enough to work with an amazing group of two communities of practice that are doing this work worldwide. And I just imagine a world where we can tap into our place as individuals and we can do this work. It is an interconnected system that’s global and dynamic, and we can create these thriving states. So it’s something I’ve always done, even before the regenerative practice in integrating sustainability. I brought diverse stakeholders together since the early 2000s that did not get along, and I asked them, what does sustainability mean to them? What are the impacts that they’re having, and how can they work together to ensure that they have a future industry to work in? Mik Aidt (23:33) Fantastic. Tomi Winfree (23:53) So those were hard conversations 20 years ago. They’re not getting easier, they’re getting more difficult for sure. Cherry Ward (23:58) Just before we wrap up, Tomi, there’s a lot going on in the world right now. And we spoke about polarisation earlier and there’s increased rates of anxiety and so on and mental health issues. What gives you hope right now? Tomi Winfree (24:12) I think it’s really about tapping in to ourselves, knowing that, again, we have more in common than we have that separate us. And when we start looking at our places and the people that we’re connected to, and that being what really matters on the ground and not the whole global overwhelm, I think that has huge potential at every level from our mental health, our own mental health. our physical health, our relationships, our communities. And when we do that in a business, that has such wide reaching impact. So I think it’s just being connected, being part of the system, this living dynamic system, being willing to give it a go and not worry about it being perfect, but just get started with what you’ve got, where you are. I think we are constantly responding to a lot of natural disasters that are increasing and in this work that I do, belonging to a community enables communities to respond more quickly. So in emergency situations, building relationships with community on the ground, whether that’s businesses with community or community members, it’s just an amazing way that people can connect in an emergency to be able to respond really quickly as needed. And that gives me inspiration. Mik Aidt (25:31) If our listeners and also in particular people in the business world would like to work with you and get more inspiration, how do people get started with you? What’s the process? Tomi Winfree (25:41) I’m just having a conversation. So you can go onto my website, book in to have a half an hour conversation, ring me up, let’s go for coffee. I love hearing people’s stories and hearing what they’re passionate about and really reviving that, reinvigorating that and helping them become who they want to be in this world at this time. So I’ve got an eight week program that I work with individuals on. to get them started, get those rapid regenerative actions happening within those eight weeks and then ongoing mentoring and coaching from there. That can be as part of an individual in a business, it can be just them one-on-one and then working with teams. It’s just custom, it’s based on what they need and it starts with getting to know them. Alan Taylor (26:23) That’s fantastic. Thank you very much, Tomi. Thank you for the inspiring stories, your own journey wrapping into it, which is sort of exemplifies what others are going to go through working with you. From what I’m hearing is understanding themselves, listening, truly listening to their own message and their own story and helping them drive forward. At that point, it’s a wrap for this episode of the Business Revolution. We’re hoping that you enjoyed diving deep into this world of business and sustainability with an ever-changing lens. So thank you. Cherry Ward (26:53) Remember, the revolution doesn’t end here. So it’s up to each and every one of us to take this knowledge and inspiration from today’s episode and turn it into action. Mik Aidt (27:03) And that’s whether you’re implementing sustainable practices in your own business or advocating for change in the broader community. Every step counts, as we’ve heard today, for building that better future. Alan Taylor (27:14) And don’t forget to visit our website at businessrevolution.earth for more resources, past episodes, and ways to get involved. Cherry Ward (27:22) And if you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to hit the subscribe button, rate and review us the business revolution on your favourite podcast platform. Your feedback will help us reach more listeners and also amplify our impact. Alan Taylor (27:37) So thanks for joining us on this ever going transformational journey. And together we can revolutionise the way that we do our business and create a world together that’s sustainable for the generations to come. Mik Aidt (27:48) Stay tuned for more insights, inspiration and actionable steps to help reshape the way we do business. Cherry Ward (27:54) This is Cherry. Mik Aidt (27:55) This is Mik. Alan Taylor (27:56) And Alan, signing off. The business revolution starts with you. ---------------------------------------- THE BUSINESS REVOLUTION LINKS CONNECT IN SOCIAL MEDIA ► Follow TBR on Facebook: www.facebook.com/thebusinessrevolution [https://www.facebook.com/thebusinessrevolution] ► Follow TBR on Instagram:  www.instagram.com/thebusinessrevo [https://www.instagram.com/thebusinessrevo] ► Follow TBR on Youtube: www.youtube.com/@TheBusinessRevo [https://www.youtube.com/@TheBusinessRevo] PODCAST PLAYERS ► Subscribe on Spotify: ► Subscribe on Apple Podcast:  podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-business-revolution/id1736051723 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-business-revolution/id1736051723] JOIN THE BUSINESS REVOLUTION ► Sign up to TBR newsletter and/or TBR’s networks here:  www.businessrevolution.earth/join [https://businessrevolution.earth/join] ABOUT THE BUSINESS REVOLUTION ► Here’s an introduction to the podcast – audio and transcript:  > 8-minute trailer for The Business Revolution [https://businessrevolution.earth/launching-episode-1/] ► Introduction – 8-minute trailer on Youtube: ---------------------------------------- [powerpress_playlist]

8. sept. 2025 - 28 min
episode Episode 15: Powering a regenerative future cover

Episode 15: Powering a regenerative future

The Business Revolution Episode 15 In this episode of The Business Revolution, we delve into the exciting frontier of sustainable agriculture and renewable energy with Stephen Todd, founder and CEO of Volt Farmer. Stephen is driving a quiet revolution in rural Australia, proving that profitable farming and planetary health can go hand in hand. In this interview, Stephen shares Volt Farmer’s regenerative approach, which combines ancient farming wisdom with cutting-edge technology like AI and bioacoustics to create ecologically balanced systems. He explains how this approach increases farm carrying capacity and drought resilience, while also generating long-term productive assets.  Our conversation explores: * The “Valley of Death”. The challenging 3-5 year transition period for farmers moving from chemical to organic or regenerative practices, and the need for more supportive banking systems. * Agri-solar innovation and how combining elevated solar panels with farming (agroforestry systems) can maximise land use and generate multiple benefits, including growing traditional crops between vertical panels. * Drawing lessons from Germany and the UK, Stephen highlights the importance of local community involvement and co-investment in renewable energy projects to ensure value returns to the community, not just energy traders. * Zambia’s rapid transformation. An inspiring example of how a nation facing severe climate and energy stress is fast-tracking solar farm permits and embracing innovative, collaborative agricultural and energy solutions, driven by a young, tech-savvy population unburdened by Western conditioning. * The current and future impact of AI and swarm robotics in agriculture, providing actionable insights, automating tasks, and enhancing productivity, while also discussing the evolution of human roles. * How the application of predictive algorithms and looking for “surrogate indicators” (predictive trends) from regenerative agriculture can be applied across various business sectors to drive efficiency, predictive maintenance, and improved employee well-being. Join us for a fascinating discussion on how ancient wisdom, modern technology, and community engagement are shaping a more resilient and sustainable agricultural future. BIO Stephen Todd is the founder and CEO of Volt Farmer, a company at the forefront of bringing cutting-edge renewable energy solutions to the agricultural sector. With over 18 years of experience, Stephen is passionate about sustainable farming practices and technological innovation, empowering farmers to reduce their environmental footprint, cut costs, and build more resilient operations by combining ancient wisdom with modern technology. LINKS Volt Farmer website: www.voltfarmer.com.au [https://voltfarmer.com.au/] Connect with Stephen Todd on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephen-todd-669036199/] ---------------------------------------- Audio version: ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- Episode 15 links 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐓𝐁𝐑 notes and transcript: www.businessrevolution.earth/businessrevolution15 [https://businessrevolution.earth/businessrevolution15] 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] This episode for download: audio mp3 [https://businessrevolution.earth/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/TheBusinessRevolution-episode015.mp3] 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐭𝐢𝐟𝐲: open.spotify.com/episode [https://open.spotify.com/episode/6AW24U4hDrxdtsRHxYLl12?go=1&sp_cid=6d2ddc5b0534c277f36fdfae2491b4f3] 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐀𝐩𝐩𝐥𝐞 𝐏𝐨𝐝𝐜𝐚𝐬𝐭: podcasts.apple.com [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/powering-a-regenerative-future/id1736051723?i=1000718665099] 📺 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f4fa.png] 𝐘𝐨𝐮𝐭𝐮𝐛𝐞: video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xMQv3T_EVg&ab_channel=TheBusinessRevolution] Social media posts: Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/thebusinessrevolution_businessforfuture-esg-sustainability-activity-7353916576804360192-haI0?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAAAc1m4BNiF0oid704nxMzQWvYvWLo3NdYU] – Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/thebusinessrevolution/posts/pfbid02A93vZF1YRwAFH3AJaz9qGwh7mpfATGZBreN5xQ43NmLxNzgdfU4KuQkNPhSYVHTQl] – Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/p/DMd4YVYy7Xs/] ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- TRANSCRIPT – EPISODE 15 Alan Taylor (00:00)  Well, welcome or welcome back to The Business Revolution, the podcast where we’re rewriting the rules of business for a sustainable future. I’m Alan, your co-host. Cherry Ward (00:08)  And I’m Cherry. Mik Aidt (00:09)  And I’m Mik. We are your guides, or we would like to be your guides, on this journey to explore the intersection of business, sustainability, and positive change. Alan Taylor (00:19)  And to do that, every episode will bring you inspiring conversations with experts, entrepreneurs, and changemakers, proving that sustainability isn’t just good for the planet; it’s actually good for business. Cherry Ward (00:30)  So we will uncover innovative solutions, share practical strategies, and discover new trends that will shape the future of sustainable business. Mik Aidt (00:39)  Whether you are a seasoned CEO, a budding entrepreneur, or simply curious about how to make a difference in the business world, well, you’ve come to the right place. Alan Taylor (00:49)  So I hope you’ve got your cup of tea or your favourite sustainable brew to settle in and be ready to be inspired. This is The Business Revolution. Mik Aidt (00:57)  In this episode, we’re going to explore the exciting frontier of sustainable agriculture and renewable energy, and how innovative technology is transforming the way we grow food. Alan Taylor (01:15)  And to help us explore this intersection of farming, technology, and environmental stewardship, we’re excited to welcome Stephen Todd.  Stephen is the founder and CEO of Volt Farmer, a company at the forefront of bringing cutting-edge renewable energy solutions to the agricultural sector.  With a deep passion for sustainable farming practices and a keen eye for technological innovation, Stephen is empowering farmers to reduce their environmental footprint, cut costs, and build more resilient operations.  He’s driving a quiet revolution in rural Australia, proving that profitable farming and planetary health can go hand in hand. Welcome, Stephen, to The Business Revolution. Stephen Todd (02:02)  Thank you for having me. Cherry Ward (02:03)  Stephen, could you share your story behind Volt Farmer? So, what’s your core mission, and how are you bringing renewable energy solutions to the agricultural sector? Stephen Todd (02:16) We describe our activities as being regenerative. So we essentially go into communities, identify the opportunities, work with the existing experts in the area.  We find consensus among the technology players, but also the ancient wisdom of the area. We use precision regenerative agricultural techniques to measure and baseline the performance of the landscape and the energy systems.  And then, using AI-based systems, we create outcomes because they’re called actionable insights from that data.  So it all sounds very cold and clinical, but it’s actually about using ancient wisdom. And a lot of the ancient farming cultures that we actually deal with use an intuitive basis when they’re managing the landscape.  When they walk onto a farm, they can feel whether it’s in tune or whether it’s out of tune. And to give you a basic example, you walk onto a farm that the soil feels soft underfoot. It’s likely full of biological activity.  If you’re very quiet, as a lot of the older farmers will be, you can hear the birds and the insects, so that’s a bio indicator. And you’re basically feeling the vibration.  Now, with modern technology, we can start to put measurement onto that using bioacoustics, actually listening to what the landscape is telling us, and looking for trends in that landscape.  So we look at a whole system. We actually basically design the system like an ecologically balanced trope at Cascade.  So we’re looking at what’s pushing what, what’s the best way to actually live in harmony to produce what you want, and long-term productive assets for the owner. Alan Taylor (03:47)  That’s wonderful. Talking about, obviously you’re educating us, we’re not farmers, and there’s so much in there. I’m wondering, a lot of people like myself, or people who are not aware of farming, think, well, that sounds great, but what is the value of that to modern farming? Stephen Todd (04:08) There’s a couple of big reasons. One is to increase the carrying capacity of your farm. Carrying capacity is the ability to carry animals or produce crops.  It also makes the farms more drought resilient or climate event resilient. You’re understanding the trends, but you’re actually being able to react to change better outcomes.  Traditionally, data collection is about telling you what you already know. If you go back to the older way of doing it, it’s looking where the birds are resting in the trees.  That will tell you what next year’s weather is going to be, where the insects are putting their nests. There’s lots of stuff that we can take from people who actually understand the landscape.  Once you understand that, you can apply a thing called the landscape wellness rating system to understand at this point in time, where does that landscape sit. So as an investor, if you want to be called in commercial, you’re ideally looking to buy a farm that’s a one star, use an applied set of systems to then renovate it to seven star.  And if you want to be a banker or an investor, you then have got a long-term productive asset. The actual farm operator then, when you’re getting these really strange changes in the climate or long-term droughts, because you looked after it well, it’s a much more resilient, ecologically based farming system. And Australia leads the world in a lot of this technology. Alan Taylor (05:25)  Wow. So, if I understand that correctly, you’re saying that not only do you get actually higher productivity, but you get quick wins. So it’s not like a long wait for return on investment, and you’ve got resilience built into that. Is that a good summary? Your correct summary? Stephen Todd (05:41)  The summary in the middle is not correct, because it’s called the valley of death. So whenever people transition from chemical agronomy, so that’s a lot of artificial synthetic fertilisers, high yields.  If you want to go either organic or regenerative, there’s probably a three to five year period in the middle where you’re repairing the ecosystem. You also get a lot of grief from your neighbours traditionally because your farm looks untidy.  It also requires you to be more resilient in your thinking so you’re not just growing soybeans or corn. You’re actually growing things like food forests, you’re creating a completely different system. Some of the solar systems we use actually mimic an agroforestry system, so the solar panels actually hang vertically.  And that means that we can then grow traditional crops like barley, carrots, potatoes, anything you want in between them. But that requires a level of investment, but it also requires quite a lot of faith in the farmer’s perspective because the banks are still fairly far behind, because they’re basing all their loans on predictive algorithms.  What sold last year? What’s the commodity market? And that’s been the biggest challenge, particularly in Australia, where a lot of the traditionally based banks, and you only have four of them, don’t like things that appear to be innovative. But in fact, they’re quite the opposite of innovative. They’re old-fashioned. They’re robust. Cherry Ward (06:57)  Stephen, I’m interested in terms of, was looking at your website and the renewable energy aspect of it. How does it all work for our listeners? Because I think often when we think about renewables, whether it’s solar or wind, there seems to be, I may be incorrect in assuming, a bit of resistance in those areas around having solar farms on farms and the impact. Is there any impact? Stephen Todd (07:25)  Yes, there has been a very bad impact in Australia in particular, simply because the developers who have come from other parts of the world are engineers, and they build monocultured solar farms. They have very little community engagement.  And lessons can be taken from the German wind industry where again they were doing something similar and the German communities were getting extremely upset with what they thought were visually unpleasant looking wind farms that they were looking at.  What the Germans did, the German companies, they went to the local community and said, okay, we’ve got your feedback. If you were allowed to invest in these wind farms as a co-investor, would that change?  And overnight, it transformed the narrative completely because it became the community’s wind farm or solar farm. And then in the UK, there was a company called Lightsource BP.  And they were my original inspiration for what I’m doing with my projects where we combine elevated solar with actual farming underneath. So we’re not talking about putting some sheep in it and pretending it’s farming. It’s actually baselining the soil health, having a farm management system, moving the animals around holistically to optimise the amount of soil carbon sequestrated, having proper buffer zones around the periphery, like a 20 or 30 metre native bio corridor.  They were brilliant at actually saying this can be done. The problem in Australia, a lot of it’s been run by pure financial return, and none of that value goes back to the local community. None. Zilch. Nothing.  They say it creates jobs. Once a farm’s built and most of the jobs are outsourced anyway, the money just goes into the national energy market and the market traders. So there have been some amazing innovative companies in Australia like Kumu Energy, who’ve been pushing that syndicated investment opportunity for local companies and local people who want to invest in it.  So if you’re a local mill and you want to have really good ESG commitments, like genuine, you would invest in a solar farm that’s a community-owned solar farm.  But it also means that it’s demonstrable. You can link the solar farm to your end use and say for every kilowatt hour that we’re using, we can actually see what’s come directly from that solar farm.  The problem with the larger farms that are happening is that they are being developed by people, I mean, with no disrespect, because they’re engineers, you know, they want to optimise the electricity.  This is really coming from Germany, New Mexico, and France and Italy. They’re saying that land is so precious, we need to make it coexist. Australia now is starting to really pick up the ante on this. And yes, they’re combining sheep, but they’re also looking at the hydrological function, the insects, the pollinators.  How can we screen it from the local community? How can we actually include schools education from day one so the kids get to see how do you assess the natural capital? What are your biometrics as you go forward?  And also then align local communities to have access through corporate PPAs or time PPAs to buy the electricity. And you’re gonna see something similar at the minute with the large utility battery systems that they’re building. You’ve got to involve your local community as an actual stakeholder, not as a “I’ve ticked the box, I’ve spoken to the community,” and they’ll see mapping.  You’ve actually got to offer people that democracy of do you want to be part of it? Alan Taylor (10:39)  It sounds to me as if it’s sort of taking, you mentioned the ideas coming from Germany and a few other countries. It’s also, you mentioned the ancient knowledge, and it seems to be a pattern that I’m hearing here is that ancient knowledge of the Indigenous culture and ancient knowledge in, if you look at any other farming, I’m guessing. But that idea of diversity that you need the different, you need to encourage the bees and the pollinators and all of the other things to be together. Alan Taylor (11:08)  And you’re sort of expanding that by putting the solar and wind on the same places as your farms. So you’ve got diversifying a lot more. Is that a reasonable understanding? Stephen Todd (11:19)  You’re making a farming enterprise much more resilient because it’s called value stacking. In the 1940s, until the end of the Second World War in the UK, a farmer would have had geese, would have had milking cows, they would have made cheese on the farm, would have grown some of their own fodder.  They would have a series of different enterprises that allowed them, regardless of what happened, that there was always income from the farm. When you look at nature, nothing works as an isolated activity. Everything is a circle of life.  The challenge we’ve had after the Second World War has been such an explosion and mass defeat. And obviously after the Second World War, they had an awful lot of phosphates left after the manufacturing of said ancillary devices. So they had to come up with some way of using it.  And the problem is now you’ve got people addicted to chemical inputs. The beautiful thing about this sort of precision regenerative ag, it doesn’t require people to go on a massive learning journey. It becomes pretty intuitive once they get a vibe of it. And some of the teaching that’s coming to Australia and America, some people like Will Harris and White Oak Pastures, people like that who are going around the world saying, this is a system, but you’ve got to actually understand what you’re trying to achieve.  It’s no criticism of the large petrochemical companies because they’re fulfilling a need, again, like large solar farm developers, you want 800 megawatts, we’ll give it to you.  Now Australia again is really pushing hard with there’s an agri-solar CRC bid being led by Western Sydney University and they’ve brought together about 150 really, really good experts in regenerative agriculture, biocarbon, biochar, landscape management, as well as solar farming and engineering. And they’ve really started that systems-based approach, which is really, really exciting. Mik Aidt (13:06)  Stephen, can you give us a picture of the scale of this? How far are you yourself, and how large or how small is your business? And also, what’s your perspective on how do we scale this up so that more people, more farmers, and more countries basically begin to use that thinking that you’re presenting us here? Stephen Todd (13:26)  It needs to be legislated and quickly. Australia’s got a unique opportunity here with land tax and primary production rules. So they decided any solar farm or bioenergy plant needs to include and incorporate agriculture in a meaningful way. That would solve the problem overnight.  Italy has already done something similar. France insists that all new buildings and car parks either have grass or solar panels on them.  So government needs to lead the way. I mean, the market’s pushed pretty hard in this, but as you can see, perverse outcome is monoculture, 800 hectares, solar farms with all the power, you know, literally going to the energy traders.  So if government just, it is simple, it’s just a legislation. If you do it that way, you’re going to be commercially taxed, like it’s an industrial building in the middle of Sydney. If you do it this way, it’s primary production. Mik Aidt (14:18)  And are you talking with government? Stephen Todd (14:23)  That’s me biting my lip. The Solar CRC with Western Sydney University will have that opportunity to put that case to people who can actually make an effect.  Where we’re actually making a bigger difference at the minute is in Zambia, because they’re in the middle of a terrible drought and their solar farm permits are now taking 48 hours.  A solar farm in Australia can take you between seven to ten years to get permits and actually on the ground. So it can be done. They’ve realised that because 84% of their electricity comes from hydroelectric, we’ve got no water, we’ve got no electricity, 22 hours a day with no power, we’ve got 60% of their community is under 25.  Young, excited people on iPhones, Samsungs, using AI, already connected to the interweb of knowledge, going, we want to do something different. So they contacted me last year and said, we’ve seen what you’re doing in Australia, can you come and do something with us?  So we looked at what they were doing and we quickly realised that the agriculture we can bring, the systems we can bring, the education, the digital twins, the immediate plugging in of a solar and battery system creates that power directly to Lusaka and Livingston.  And we’ve been very well received and they’ve been incredibly good at co-design, leaning in, seeing how they can help. They have been very open to the carbon farming. They’ve been very open to the food forests, very, very open to collaboration with Australia and Denmark of all places.  Europe, believe it or not, Denmark, Sweden, UK, Ireland, Scotland are all pushing into Zambia because there’s a lot of really clever people who are keen to actually make a difference with their careers. Alan Taylor (16:04)  Yes, a wonderful story about Zambia and where they’re actually getting the buy-in and actually moving forward. And hopefully they’re going to be examples for us over here. You mentioned the long regulations, for example.  I know here in Gippsland, there’s a small town called Loch, who had a big natural disaster a few years ago. And they’ve got together and they’re actually trying their best to have their own local micro net, micro power system that they can use as their resilience.  It’s a rural community. So I’m guessing it would have an impact on their farming and their opportunities that they’d get from it as well. I’m wondering if you think that Zambia would be a good example that might be a leverage point to help that, those things, those plant a few more seeds that people can see grow, because there is already local buy-in. Stephen Todd (16:49)  What we’re seeing in Zambia is because 60% of their population is under 25. They have grown up with access to the internet.  The vast majority of people we’re talking to already have iPhone 14s and 15s, tablets. They don’t have the conditioning that a lot of the Western societies have, so they don’t know what they don’t know. And that’s an amazing opportunity, particularly when you’re tied into AI systems that are now giving you actionable insights.  So it’s like talking to a bunch of unpoliced eight-year-olds in a classroom where, “Why not? All we want to do this has been done before, or we can use this technology, what’s the problem?”  Because they’re not aware of what Australians are conditioned to think about regulation and about what won’t work because they don’t know what won’t work, which is brilliant. And you’re much more likely to get innovation, particularly when people are under fiscal stress and climate stress and food stress and energy stress.  They have no option but to work something out. And that is great at nation-building because people together are actually much stronger. I mean, there’s a great expression about Australia is it’s comfortably numb.  And then unfortunately people take their eye off the ball. And again, that’s not a criticism. I’m an Australian citizen. I love the place. And perhaps the areas that you can reflect on in Australia, when they have a bushfire, people tend to work as communities and help each other out.  Bit like when you’re training as a cyclist, the only time you get fitter is when you’re going up the hill. Cherry Ward (18:17)  Stephen, you mentioned AI there before, and I want to explore this with you a little bit because I think it’s such an interesting space we’re in. How do you see that impacting farming, but also adoption of AI? How does it all intersect? Stephen Todd (18:22)  The beautiful thing about AI, if you know how to write the question and ask the key secret, you have to start with the end in sight, and then you have to set up human-based protocols about the actual outcome process.  The beautiful thing is it’s dipping into the entire knowledge of humanity forever. And when you think about it, to have that in your pocket, if you’d said that even 10 years ago, people would have laughed.  Now you can actually go, “Give me an example of how you repair this landscape so it creates social benefit, economically viable, produces power for the community, ensures women employment, ensures that people who actually want to be getting an agency in their future can do so.”  That also promotes collaboration between different countries. AI immediately just removes those barriers because it doesn’t know what those barriers are. So it’s a beautiful moment in time.  The danger is making sure that, unlike the Wizard of Oz, we actually have that distributed ethic built into it. And that’s going to be the biggest challenge, because again, obviously the propagandists who can populate the interweb for AI-defined or even the controlled AI systems, which then are siloed, you’ve got to find somewhere in the middle.  But the advantage for the Zambian communities, and certainly the rural communities we deal with in Australia, is that it’s freeing them up from that bias that even the best consultant brings because it’s giving them multiple sources of truth.  It’s also giving you an automatic bibliography. Where did I get that? What’s the rationale? You can interrogate it. So it’s an amazingly interesting time.  It’s like where the start of the interweb. Those that saw it got it immediately and thought, “My goodness, this is going to be fun.” Mik Aidt (20:09)  However, the next step after AI is robots, isn’t it? You know, when it’s not just a brain, but it actually has a body and it can start working on farms.  China is already rolling out robots, for instance, to take care of elders in Japan. It’s a big thing as well. We haven’t seen much of it yet in Australia. What’s your take on that next level of AI? When it gets physical? Stephen Todd (20:35)  We actually already have it in Australia. Swarm robotics in Queensland already have systems that go out and do exactly what’s needed. They use lasers to identify and burn the weeds.  We already have drone swarms on farms that automatically go out, read the number of raspberries. That information goes straight back into the financial records of the farms. So the bank and the investors know at any point what’s that crop yield.  The commodities investors know what it’s going to be next year based on what they can see. So we’re already there. And what’s happening now with the roboticisation, yes, it’s going to remove some jobs, but it’s like the transition between the horse and the car.  I mean, that was 10, 15 years, and the horses weren’t just horses. It was the saddlers, it was the hoofers, it was the carriage makers. Humans have always had to adapt to change. No different to when there were massive coal mines in the UK or making linen.  Things changed and aesthetics come along, people adapt. But I think there’s a new generation have grown up with this. I was gonna say, it’s called mother. It’s the fact that you have this guide assistant that will give you the information with the best intention.  As long as you don’t have the bad people in the background giving you propaganda. But the beautiful thing about some of these young people, they’ve grown up with Reddit. They know how to question things.  They’ve got social confirmation. And they don’t just go to Google and say, well, if it’s above the line, that’s the truth. They know to ask those questions.  And I don’t think robotics will take away all of the manual jobs like, you know, cleaning and doing all the horrible stuff. But there’s still going to be work for people, and there’s going to be work.  I mean, one thing that AI can’t do particularly well is design-based thinking. It’s because it doesn’t have emotional intelligence yet. And that will be interesting to see how that script develops. So people will always have a place. Cherry Ward (22:25)  Yeah, great. One last question for me. So many of our listeners are business leaders across various industries. What lessons from the work that you do from agriculture and regenerative farming that can be applied into other industries or sectors? Stephen Todd (22:42)  The application of predictive algorithms and looking for trends. So most data collection in businesses is what your accountant tells you, and that’s last year’s effect. And unfortunately, then you’re reacting to what you’re actually, it’s too late.  What we’re seeing now with regenerative practice is you’re looking for what are called surrogate indicators. So you get to see what’s going to happen before it’s happened. There’s certain things that already started to shift in the wind, and most businesses can take that policy and see what’s happening.  As an engineering business, you can have machine learning in your VSDs; those are electronic motors in your system. And if they start to underperform, the system automatically detects it as an underperforming asset. So you can then have predictive maintenance.  And again, they’ve managed to, sounds a bit creepy, watch people’s behaviour at work. So they know when people are getting fed up, and you don’t want fed up workers; you want people motivated. They’re like, they’re… as an app now, you can actually watch people on the peninsula.  We can see all the tradespeople leaving in the morning, and all the tradespeople from Melbourne CBD coming down to the peninsula. So the analytics are already there, and you can see the patterns, and you can start to build a better regenerative future saying, “Well, why are so many people travelling an hour down and an hour up to do the work that the people who are already there from even a lifestyle point of view? Why do you want to sit in a car for two hours?” Businesses have got that great opportunity now. It sounds like rationalising your business, but you’re actually making it more liveable. And if you keep people happy and a good quality of life, it becomes a productive asset. Cherry Ward (24:18)  That was beautiful. And it’s some of the work that Alan and I’ve been trying to do is, you know, how do we take a regenerative approach into the world of business? Stephen, where can our listeners learn more about you, your work in Volt Farmer? Stephen Todd (24:33)  Mainly I do on the website, it’s voltfarmer.com.au, but we do a lot of LinkedIn. LinkedIn is the most amazing device.  We have had so many conversations from people that are totally unrelated to what we’re doing. They’ve said, “You know, we work in the medical sector, we’ve got predictive algorithms to spot health issues.  We want to talk to you about using predictive algorithms and landscaping to identify AI farmers can predict the water’s drying up, or the algae levels or the biological oxygen demand of the water’s changed, which means it must be pollution.”  And it’s a great way of meeting engineers, environmentalists, ethical people, people who want to talk about weird and wonderful stuff because they get inspiration. And when you have two people in a conversation, a third voice turns up.  It’s one you weren’t expecting. And LinkedIn is great because you tend not to get negative comments. It’s generally people going, “That’s fascinating, tell me more.” Or, “We’re working with oil transport ships.  And how we’ve reduced our carbon footprint is making sure that we wait until the tide’s at the highest level, then we overfill the boat and we’ve saved 20%.” So you get to share these amazing insights from other industries that you would never have come across. Cherry Ward (25:43)  That’s brilliant. We’ll make sure we’ll add your LinkedIn page so people can follow that and connect with you as well, Stephen. Thank you.  And that’s a wrap for this episode of The Business Revolution. We hope you have enjoyed diving deep into the world of business and sustainability with us. Alan Taylor (26:02)  As you can see, the world of business and sustainability is not just business as usual. It’s a broader thing across farming and the community.  So remember, the revolution doesn’t end there. It’s up to each and every one of us to take the knowledge and inspiration from today’s episode and turn it into action. Mik Aidt (26:19)  And whether that action is implementing sustainable practices in your own business or advocating for change in your community, every step, every single step, counts towards building a better future for us all. Cherry Ward (26:32)  And don’t forget to visit our website at businessrevolution.earth for more resources, past episodes, and ways to get involved. Alan Taylor (26:40)  And if you enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to subscribe, rate, and review The Business Revolution on your favourite podcast platform. Your feedback helps us reach more listeners and amplify our impact. Mik Aidt (26:53)  Thank you for joining us on this journey of transformation. Together, we hope we can revolutionise the way we do business and create a world that is truly sustainable for the generations to come. Alan Taylor (27:06)  So stay tuned for insights, inspiration, and actionable steps to help reshape the way we all do business for a better tomorrow. Cherry Ward (27:14)  So until next time, keep innovating, keep inspiring, and keep pushing for positive change for a brighter tomorrow. This is Cherry. Mik Aidt (27:23)  I’m Mik. Alan Taylor (27:24)  And Alan signing off. The business revolution starts with you. ---------------------------------------- THE BUSINESS REVOLUTION LINKS CONNECT IN SOCIAL MEDIA ► Follow TBR on Facebook: www.facebook.com/thebusinessrevolution [https://www.facebook.com/thebusinessrevolution] ► Follow TBR on Instagram:  www.instagram.com/thebusinessrevo [https://www.instagram.com/thebusinessrevo] ► Follow TBR on Youtube: www.youtube.com/@TheBusinessRevo [https://www.youtube.com/@TheBusinessRevo] PODCAST PLAYERS ► Subscribe on Spotify: ► Subscribe on Apple Podcast:  podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-business-revolution/id1736051723 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-business-revolution/id1736051723] JOIN THE BUSINESS REVOLUTION ► Sign up to TBR newsletter and/or TBR’s networks here:  www.businessrevolution.earth/join [https://businessrevolution.earth/join] ABOUT THE BUSINESS REVOLUTION ► Here’s an introduction to the podcast – audio and transcript:  > 8-minute trailer for The Business Revolution [https://businessrevolution.earth/launching-episode-1/] ► Introduction – 8-minute trailer on Youtube: ---------------------------------------- [powerpress_playlist]

23. juli 2025 - 27 min
episode Episode 14: Demystifying the “G” in ESG cover

Episode 14: Demystifying the “G” in ESG

The Business Revolution Episode 14 In this captivating episode of The Business Revolution, we complete our ESG series by diving into the often-misunderstood but absolutely critical “G” for Governance. We’re joined by Perrin Carey, the visionary founder and CEO of CoSteer, who radically redefines governance beyond rigid checklists and compliance. Perrin unveils a powerful vision of governance as “beautiful synchronicity,” akin to a murmuration of starlings, an interconnected, non-hierarchical system centered on shared purpose and values. Perrin explains how the true essence of governance lies in the quality of the millions of daily decisions made across an organisation, not just in the boardroom. This episode will challenge your perceptions and offer profound insights into: * Why traditional, rigid governance models are a risk and how adaptability is key to organisational survival and agility. * How embedding core values and purpose into decision-making frameworks fosters a living, human system of governance. * The immense role of AI in improving decision quality, when approached with a human touch. * Practical applications of biomimicry, showing how decentralised, interconnected systems lead to robust outcomes. * The ultimate driver of good governance. Based on extensive research, Perrin reveals the single most influential factor in high-quality decision-making is compassion. Join us for a thought-provoking conversation that will inspire you to see governance as a dynamic opportunity, a competitive edge and a path to building institutions worth inheriting. BIO Perrin Carey is the visionary founder and CEO of CoSteer, a technology business dedicated to integrating governance effectively into organisations. Perrin;s work stems from extensive research into how to move beyond traditional, process-driven governance towards a more holistic and human-centered approach, focusing on enhancing the quality of decision-making within organisations. LINKS CoSteer website:  www.costeer.co [https://www.costeer.co/] CoSteer’s research at the Good Governance Academy: goodgovernance.academy/research [https://goodgovernance.academy/research/] CoSteer’s research report: www.costeer.co/2025report [https://www.costeer.co/2025report] ISO 37000 – The Governance of Organisations [https://committee.iso.org/files/live/sites/tc309/files/ISO%2037000%20slides/ISO%2037000%20Governance%20of%20organizations%20-%20Guidance%20-%20v1%202022%20web.pdf] ---------------------------------------- Audio version: ---------------------------------------- My call to CEOs – about the “G” in ESG ---------------------------------------- Episode 14 links 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐓𝐁𝐑 notes and transcript: www.businessrevolution.earth/businessrevolution14 [https://businessrevolution.earth/businessrevolution14] 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐓𝐁𝐑 episode 14 for download: audio mp3 [https://businessrevolution.earth/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/TheBusinessRevolution-episode014.mp3] 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐭𝐢𝐟𝐲: open.spotify.com/episode [https://open.spotify.com/episode/2j2D1XW0xfuGBv8f8EGoJY?si=G0pKa5HnQyOZxGTS5AJdJQ] 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐀𝐩𝐩𝐥𝐞 𝐏𝐨𝐝𝐜𝐚𝐬𝐭: podcasts.apple.com [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-14-demystifying-the-g-in-esg/id1736051723?i=1000712521720] 📺 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f4fa.png] 𝐘𝐨𝐮𝐭𝐮𝐛𝐞: video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKUbwwT3vlQ&ab_channel=TheBusinessRevolution] Social media posts: Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7338780147954720770] – Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/thebusinessrevolution/posts/pfbid02UMJp7WdCSjHsczES6TSnSD5dLZp1kjycvtZfyrzavNxP5xcda2RWJ6hUypyqhY1el] – Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/p/DKyWshmPENn/] ---------------------------------------- TRANSCRIPT – EPISODE 14 Alan Taylor (00:00) Well, welcome – or welcome back – to The Business Revolution, the podcast where we’re rewriting the rules of business for a sustainable future. I’m Alan, your co-host. Cherry Ward (00:08) And I’m Cherry. Mik Aidt (00:09) And I’m Mik. We are your guides, or we would like to be your guides on this journey to explore the intersection of business, sustainability and positive change. Alan Taylor (00:19) And to do that every episode will bring you inspiring conversation with experts, entrepreneurs, change makers, or proving that sustainability isn’t just good for the planet, it’s actually good for business. Cherry Ward (00:30) So we will uncover innovative solutions, share practical strategies and discover new trends that will shape the future of sustainable business. Mik Aidt (00:39) Whether you are a seasoned CEO or a budding entrepreneur or simply curious about how to make a difference in the business world, well, you’ve come to the right place. Alan Taylor (00:49) So I hope you’ve got your cup of tea or your sustainable favorite brew to settle in and be ready to be inspired. This is The Business Revolution. Mik Aidt (00:57) In this episode, we’re going to explore the often overlooked but very important, the crucial ‘G’ in ESG, governance. Alan Taylor (01:07) And to help us explore the intricacies of good governance and its impact on sustainable business practices. We are super thrilled to welcome Perrin Carey, the visionary founder and CEO of CoSteer. Cherry Ward (01:18) Welcome Perrin. Perrin brings a wealth of experience in helping organisations navigate the complexities of modern governance. Co-Steer is at the forefront of providing innovative solutions that empower businesses to build robust and transparent governance frameworks. So Perrin, can you tell us a bit about CoSteer and specifically how you and CoSteer address the G in ESG? Perrin Carey (01:43) Goodness, that’s a whole podcast just in one question there, Cherry. But very quickly, because I really want to dive into our perspectives on governance. But firstly, it was born out of a research project that I did for a master’s degree back in 2018. But it has been a long standing challenge of mine as to how do we integrate governance properly into organisations. That research led to a deep exploration through the years of COVID and then the development of a piece of technology which supports organisations. So CoSteer is an unusual business. It’s a tech business, but in the space of governance. Your second bit of that question, we’re going to have to dive in separately. So you see, let’s look at the way that we see governance currently, most of us. We see governance most commonly as a process driven framework, often surrounded by aspects of compliance, maybe risk management. And in the ESG space, it sits as this tag on at the end of this acronym. But imagine if you would something different. Picture that beautiful spectacle in the sky that you see at dusk. Starlings in murmuration. You can see it across woodlands and across seaside towns in the UK, the US, around the world. That for me is governance. Governance is beautiful synchronicity. It’s interconnectedness. It’s a group of human beings centralised around a common purpose with really clear shared values. No hierarchical leadership, decentralised decision making. And if you can imagine that transition of moving an organisation, a group of organisations, a whole concept towards that type of ideology, then you move into a different space. You move into a world where governance is in fact beautiful. And that isn’t something you hear often in boardrooms. Cherry Ward (03:55) No, absolutely not. I love that that starling that murmuration Perrin. I think, you know, I’ve worked in that space and often governance is about hierarchy. It’s about delegations of authority, who can make those decisions and structures and processes. So how are you working with organisations to to make that shift to think differently about governance. I think it’s almost like as you said earlier, the G has to come before the E and the S. Perrin Carey (04:24) Yeah, how do we do it? I’ll come on to a minute. I think my, my ideal is that these three things are completely interconnected, they’re interwoven. And we’ve, we’ve given it an acronym, because that helps us as human beings, what we tend to then do, because we are human beings, and therefore we, we’re almost obsessed with linearity. Cherry Ward (04:27) Yes. Perrin Carey (04:47) So we go, ooh, there’s an E, ooh, there’s an S, ooh, there’s a G. But really these three elements are utterly interconnected and interwoven. So how do we address this with boards and leadership and organisations? I think we tackle it first and foremost by just clarifying that governance is not corporate governance. Governance is really about the quality of the decisions that are cascading and rippling across your organisation every single day. So there was a Harvard Business Review that was done a while ago looking at the number of decisions that we make as human beings today. 33,000. 33,000 decisions. Now even if you just go into the workplace and you extract eight hours of a day, suddenly you’re at 10,000. Multiply that up across people in your organisation. You are talking about millions and millions of decisions that are made every single day in your organisation. For me, governance is everything that informs, that wraps, that begins to inspire the quality of those decisions across your organisation. And so once you begin to have a conversation in that vein, then governance becomes a living thing. It’s not something that sits on a policy or a piece of paper or an intranet. It becomes a living human system. And that’s how we approach governance with organisations as a living human system. Alan Taylor (06:25) Wow, that sounds beautiful. I’ve worked in environments where you’ve got a reasonable level of alignment and that alone is a massive improvement, but this is taking it two or three levels further. What are some of the big challenges that you’re seeing in leadership, I guess, to overcoming that and to actually become that one? Perrin Carey (06:46) Wow, there are lots of challenges. A lot of it is around education, an acknowledgement of the fact that governance is in fact, this deeper, broader living thing. I think once leaders have gone on that journey of acknowledgement, there’s a kind of wave that comes with them. And we see this across organisations and leadership. What we’ve found is that when leaders have the opportunity to measure and observe the governance in their organisations, then it comes alive. And so the challenge that we addressed really at CoSteer was, can we begin to bring alive in visual form governance, rather than it being this report that’s done you know, every year and we go through and we comply or we explain or we do both of those. We list all the policies and procedures that we do. We pat ourselves on the back because we’ve written great minutes. And I’m not saying that any of these things are unimportant. But we need to think of the purpose of all of these things. Because purpose is the core of everything, right? The purpose of good minutes, the purpose of a policy, the purpose of having procedures, controls and frameworks and systems is to improve decision making. And if you can bring that living system of decision making alive in a visual form, then you bring leadership, you bring boards right with you. And that’s what we’ve built and created. And I know this is not about us sort of talking in detail about that. But I think if you can visualise that in some way, then you bring boards and leadership on that journey. Alan Taylor (08:23) It sounds, it sounds like you, and I feel like I’m paraphrasing some of the things you said, but it sounds like you’re taking what is an abstract concept and making it tangible, making it realistic because people can see something and then you can hold the mirror back to them so that they can sort of relate to it and know that it is them. Is that, does that sound about right? Perrin Carey (08:42) I would say that’s a brilliant summary of what we do. We endeavor to… So let’s go back to that murmuration that we were talking about earlier. So what we have been able to do is visually show where all of the people are in your organisation in relation to each other around 27 core themes of what we will call governance, but you could call organisational efficacy, right? So what we’ve been able to do is create a visual image of that for organisations. So imagine being able to look at a screen or look at a piece of paper and say, this is where our people are in relation to each other on the performance of our organisation right now. We know the direction we want to go in. And in a few months time, we’re going to retake that picture and we’re going to observe how people have moved over time in relation to each of these aspects that we measure, but also in relation to each other, because this isn’t just about, the organisation performing? It is also very much about where people are in relation to others. And it’ll probably, it’ll come up later in some of our conversation about how we do that. But yes, you’re right, Alan. It’s really about trying to visualise what has become a compliance paper-driven tick box exercise into a living exercise. Yeah. Mik Aidt (10:09) How does AI come into that room? Is it an enemy or is it a friend? Perrin Carey (10:14) I would say it could be an enemy or a friend. It depends on the human touch of that. And I think this is true for all of, let’s say, generative AI. I use that term more deliberately. We’ve utilised AI for the last six years. Our AI is very much from the 1960s. It’s about high powered mathematical computation, looking at interconnections and interrelationships and trying to understand the living system. Generative AI is completely different. It uses large language models to obviously support human work if the human touch is positive. So where does it come in? I think it comes in across the piece. If we go back again, and I’ll keep coming back to this, governance is about quality of the decisions that we’re making as human beings. If there is anything that can support quality of decisions that we make, both individually, let’s say 10,000 decisions we make, if we can improve the quality of those decisions every day, and if we can improve the quality of the decision making collectively. Now, often when we think about the ESG space, we are talking about decisions at leadership or board levels in terms of the direction of travel of an organisation towards environmentally sustainable and reciprocal engagement with nature. Then the quality of their decisions collectively is so critical. We think that we’re good at making collective decisions. I would argue that we’re not that good at making collective decisions. There are numbers of reasons for that. One of them is principally being human and some of the innate challenges that we face as being human. Happy to come onto that. But I would say AI plays a critical role and can play an important an immense role in improving the quality of the decisions we make and then how well we implement those decisions. So yes, multiple factors, multiple ways, traditional AI, machine learning, we utilise all of this. So yes, it can absolutely have an impact. Alan Taylor (12:17) You remind me of another theme in here, because when people talk about AI and from Mik’s question, it’s almost like a risk perspective. But I’m going to move away from AI and just stay with the word risk. Staying with, going with the murmuration, you’ve got the leaders at the front of the flock and you’ve got whatever, I don’t know the dynamics of the birds in this, you’ve got the followers who are definitely going to be changing along the way and everybody is adapting as the whole flock moves around. In a corporate setting, that’s… that could be perceived from a leader perspective, that that’s a risk that the flock isn’t going to follow, that the risk is going to go their own direction, or that others won’t even notice that they’re coming and so there’s going to be a mid-air collision. How is risk sort of managed in this space? Perrin Carey (13:02) Okay, wow, what a brilliant question. I’m gonna try and tie these things all together, right? What you were saying, Alan, about Starlings and Mammaration, and I’m going to just correct you on one thing. There is no leadership. Leadership is completely decentralised in Starlings when they perform Mammaration. How, therefore, do they manage to do what they do with almost no collisions? So if you look at some of these spectacles, they’re 40, 50, 100,000 birds up in the sky and there won’t be a single collision. So the way that they do this is, and this has been evidenced by research conducted by Giorgio Parisi in the late 1990s, early 2000s. And he videoed Starling’s ememoration across the city of Italy. So Roman in Italy. And he observed that each starling takes reference from its seven immediate neighbors. Now just translate that to organisations and people. What we know from psychology and what we know from behavioral science is that our behaviors are most significantly influenced by seven people. So when we think about the behaviors across an organisation, we actually don’t take our steer necessarily from the executive leadership that stands three levels above us. We in fact take our steer of how we behave, how we perform, the nature of decisions that we make, the way we communicate with other people across our organisation. We take that steer from the seven most influential people around us. Now in a flock of starlings, that’s the most immediate neighbor. But us as humans, we’re more sophisticated in the way that we observe patterns around us. So it doesn’t need to be our most proximal person to us sitting in the office. But it doesn’t really reach beyond seven. Because it’s too much for us to take in, it’s too much noise, right, going on. So we essentially tune in to the seven most influential people around us. So coming back to your question, I’m trying to relate this back to your question about risk. The real risk to organisations is in fact rigidity and the inability to adapt and move. The most common reason for organisational, let’s say, an organisation ceasing to exist in some form, is actually the inability to adapt. And I’m make one other biological reference here. We’ve been taught that it’s the survival of the fittest. But that’s actually a misquote, right? It’s not the survival of the fittest, it’s the survival of those most able to adapt. And we know this now from all of our studies across ecology. And so it’s the same in organisations. So the biggest risk in organisations, inability to adapt, and the inability to adapt comes from rigidity. Rigidity comes in most organisations due to highly structured hierarchy, highly process driven policy orientated organisations with incredibly rigid decision making frameworks. And what we’re seeing in many organisations now is a gradual move towards decentralising some of that decision making. How do you do that and at the same time mitigate risk and open up opportunity? Well, how we do that with organisations is we move organisations towards a really clear purpose and values orientated decision framework. So rather than decisions being dictated to by systems and controls, exclusively, we move towards a collaborative approach where decisions can be made both through a system and control. So there are still systems and controls and they are important and they do mitigate risk. But we also encourage leadership to really embed the core values of their organisation into their decision making. And surround those decisions with the purpose of their organisation. So take an example in a boardroom or even in a meeting, you come across something that you haven’t had to experience before. You’ve got to make a decision. There is no system. There is no process. There is no policy that surrounds this decision. It’s like out of the box. And what we encourage teams to do is to Observe the purpose, embed that into the decision, look at the values, address those values as you walk through your collective decision making process. And then what we find is when you come out the other side, you’ve actually made an incredibly powerful decision that’s onboarding the concepts of risk, but most importantly, creates an agile organisation that can take opportunity. So hopefully that kind of understand and trying to bring the biomimicry into human organisations because it’s tangible, it exists, it’s real. We’ve seen it, it’s operating across our clients right now and it’s beautiful to see. Mik Aidt (18:04) I’m so excited. You have really changed the G in ESG for me and made it into something I want to know a lot more about. Unfortunately, our podcasts are usually not that long, so we’ll have to refer our listeners and YouTube viewers to your website. Or what would you be your advice to where do we go from here? I’m excited now. I want to know more. Where do I go? Perrin Carey (18:28) Where do you go? Okay. If you want to see more about our work, yes, there’s our website. But actually, and maybe we can put this link in whatever comes out. We’ve been running a research program for the last five years with the Good Governance Academy in South Africa, but there are global governance, not for profit, trying to shift governance towards this more human living system perspective. And you can find a lot of our videos and research presented back. And here is where I talk a lot more about these ideas in a lot more detail. Other than that, for those that are more kind of interested in hardcore kind of governance, I would point you in the direction of the newly recently published in 2021-22, Organisational Governance from the ISO. It’s ISO 37,000. It talks about organisational governance from this perspective that it is a system, it’s an interconnected system. And as a model, puts organisational purpose at the heart of governance. And therefore it’s truly leading the way in governance. So those are the two places I would probably point people. Thank you. Yeah, we are working with a couple of governance and government organisations in the Channel Islands. So yeah, it’s certainly something of interest that’s developed. Cherry Ward (19:50) One last question, Perrin. If you had advice for CEOs and business leaders around governance, what would that be if we were able to broadcast this live to every single business leader out there? Perrin Carey (20:02) I would say of the five years of research that we’ve been doing, we’ve collected 50,000 data points. We’ve carried out over two million, I guess, interrelationships, analysis of interrelationships between different factors of organisational governance. There is one thing that emerges time and time again as being the most influential factor on the quality of both individual and collective decision making. And its compassion. It’s compassion for ourselves and it’s compassion for others. And I think if there was one message that I had for leaders across the world. Be kind to yourself and be kind to others because that is the biggest driver of high quality individual and collective decision making. It is leaps and bounds ahead of everything else that we’re observing in organisational systems. That would be my advice. Alan Taylor (21:02) That is a wonderful way to end the session today, this episode of The Business Revolution. It’s so thought-provoking and wonderful, and I certainly hope that we’ll get many people to hear that because that’s fantastic. Thank you. We hope that everybody has enjoyed diving deep into the world of business and sustainability with us in this very different episode, thinking in very different ways. So thank you very much, Perrin. Perrin Carey (21:25) Thank you very much for me. Cherry Ward (21:26) Thanks, Perrin. And to our listeners, remember the revolution doesn’t end here. So it’s up to each and every one of us to take this knowledge and inspiration from today’s episode and turn it into action. Mik Aidt (21:39) Whether that’s implementing sustainable practices in your own business or advocating for change in your community, every step counts towards building that better future. Alan Taylor (21:50) And don’t forget to visit our website at businessrevolution.earth for more resources, past episodes and ways to actually get involved with us. Cherry Ward (21:57) And also if you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to hit subscribe, rate and review the business revolution on your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback really helps us to reach more listeners and amplify our impact. Alan Taylor (22:11) So thanks for joining us on this journey of transformation. Together we can revolutionise the way we all do business and create a world that’s sustainable for generations to come. Mik Aidt (22:20) Stay tuned for insights, inspiration and actionable steps to help reshape the way we do business for a better tomorrow. Cherry Ward (22:28) So until next time, keep innovating, keep inspiring and keep pushing for positive change. This is Cherry. Mik Aidt (22:34) This is Mik Alan Taylor (22:35) Alan signing off. The business revolution starts with you. Cherry Ward (22:41) One last message before we wrap up this episode as part of the demystifying ESG series we have a message from two CEOs on governance. CEO 1 (at 22:54) Thank you for taking the time to listen. I know you’re busy, you’re steering organisations through turbulent times, making decisions that carry weight far beyond your boardroom. We’ve spoken about the E, we’ve spoken about the S, but today let’s talk about the G in ESG, governance, and why it’s far more than a checklist or a compliance box. Let me be clear, governance is not just about minutes and manuals. It’s not about control for control’s sake. It’s about decision making. And decision making is everything. Every risk you navigate, every opportunity you seize, every value you claim to uphold, it all comes down to the quality of the decisions made across your organisation. CEO 2 (at 23:40) Most people see governance as a process, a structure, a hierarchy. But that mindset is part of the problem. Because rigid governance systems often collapse under pressure. They don’t adapt. They don’t breathe. The future belongs to organisations that can flex, move and respond. Not with chaos, but with coherence. And that’s why I want you to imagine governance differently. Not as rules from the top, but as alignment across the system. Think of a murmuration of starlings, thousands of birds, no single leader, moving in perfect synchrony. Each bird responds to its seven closest neighbours, creating a living breathing system that is agile, adaptive and beautiful. That is what governance could be. That is what governance must become. Because the greatest risk to your business is not disruption, not competition, it’s rigidity. It’s the inability to change. And let’s be honest, most companies are still trapped in outdated governance models built for a different century. Models that silo responsibility, that kill innovation, that treat compliance as the end goal instead of a baseline. We need to shift from hierarchy to purpose, from control to compassion, from tick boxes to trust. Governance done right builds culture. It creates psychological safety. It empowers your people to make better decisions at every level. And yes, governance is where your values become real, not in your brochures, but in the lived experience of your employees, your partners, your stakeholders. And here’s what we’ve learned from the data. The single biggest driver of high quality decisions, the kind that build resilient, ethical, thriving companies, is compassion. Not process, not policy. Compassion for others for yourself because humans don’t take cues from distant leaders or codes of conduct We take them from each other from the people we trust the people closest to us. Just like those birds in flight So here is my challenge to you. Stop thinking of governance as a burden. Start seeing it as the opportunity it truly is. To rewire your organisation around purpose, around people, and around principles that scale. Make it visible. Make it living. Make it your competitive edge. Because when governance is alive, your company becomes alive. And when governance is beautiful, your business becomes part of something much bigger than itself. So decide, will your legacy be brittle and outdated or adaptive and aligned with the future? Because the world is watching, employees are watching, investors are watching and the next generation is asking, are you building institutions worth inheriting? Implementing ESG, truly embedding it into the DNA of your company, can feel daunting. It takes time. It takes courage. It means rewiring old systems and letting go of comfortable habits. But here’s the truth. The return is real. Strong governance doesn’t just build trust. It builds better strategy, smarter decisions and long-term resilience. It protects your company’s future while contributing to the planet’s future. So yes, it takes effort, but it’s worth it. For your people, for your business, for our shared home. And without any doubt, this is why you and we will be on the right side of history. Ban Ki-moon, former UN Chief: It may sound strange to be speaking of revolution but that is what we need at this time. We need a revolution. Revolutionary action. SONG The business revolution starts with you It’s both cheaper and cleaner – and healthy too Now the business revolution starts with you ---------------------------------------- THE BUSINESS REVOLUTION LINKS CONNECT IN SOCIAL MEDIA ► Follow TBR on Facebook: www.facebook.com/thebusinessrevolution [https://www.facebook.com/thebusinessrevolution] ► Follow TBR on Instagram:  www.instagram.com/thebusinessrevo [https://www.instagram.com/thebusinessrevo] ► Follow TBR on Youtube: www.youtube.com/@TheBusinessRevo [https://www.youtube.com/@TheBusinessRevo] PODCAST PLAYERS ► Subscribe on Spotify: ► Subscribe on Apple Podcast:  podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-business-revolution/id1736051723 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-business-revolution/id1736051723] JOIN THE BUSINESS REVOLUTION ► Sign up to TBR newsletter and/or TBR’s networks here:  www.businessrevolution.earth/join [https://businessrevolution.earth/join] ABOUT THE BUSINESS REVOLUTION ► Here’s an introduction to the podcast – audio and transcript:  > 8-minute trailer for The Business Revolution [https://businessrevolution.earth/launching-episode-1/] ► Introduction – 8-minute trailer on Youtube: ---------------------------------------- [powerpress_playlist]

12. juni 2025 - 28 min
episode Episode 13: Demystifying the “S” in ESG cover

Episode 13: Demystifying the “S” in ESG

The Business Revolution Episode 13 In this episode of The Business Revolution, Mik, Alan, and Cherry dive deep into the often-misunderstood “S”-pillar of ESG – the “Social” pillar.  Moving beyond typical perceptions of diversity and inclusion, they broaden the lens to explore the fundamental responsibility businesses have to the very fabric of society.  Cherry, with her extensive background in organisational development and D&I, leads the discussion, emphasising that the “S” is not “soft,” but rather the foundation of trust, resilience and a company’s license to operate. It is the heart of your company! Key discussion points include: * Why social impact is critical for business success and longevity, extending beyond mere ethical considerations to tangible business outcomes. * Moving beyond shareholder centricity and the imperative for businesses consider the impact of their decisions on all stakeholders – employees, customers, communities, suppliers, and the planet. * Unpacking the hidden human suffering often embedded in global supply chains (e.g., modern slavery, unfair labor practices) and the ethical responsibility of businesses to ensure clean sourcing. * How involving employees in social initiatives can boost loyalty, innovation, and overall organisational performance. * The Importance of Awareness & Action. Encouraging businesses to understand the broad scope of social issues (beyond just DEI) and to take tangible steps towards positive community impact, even when noise from anti-ESG movements might suggest otherwise. * A brief preview of how social impact can be measured to demonstrate tangible returns on investment for social initiatives. The episode challenges leaders to ask, “Are we just? Are we human? Are we proud of how we treat people?” It underscores that there is no sustainable future without focusing on the people within and beyond the business. ---------------------------------------- Audio version: ---------------------------------------- My call to CEOs: About the ‘S’ in ESG BIOS IN BRIEF:  Mik Aidt Mik has been a highly influential player with respect to our environment, with very active communications experience for over 10 years. Examples include playing a very significant part in the global ‘Climate Emergency Declaration’ movement, and long-lived podcasts. Cherry Ward Cherry is a seasoned leadership development expert, coach (ICF ACC), and advisor with over two decades of experience in the corporate world. She is also the founder of Bluebird Leadership, a boutique consulting firm pioneering innovative solutions that cultivate thriving leaders, teams, cultures, and a sustainable planet. Alan Taylor Alan has moved from corporate IT consulting into this domain because he adamantly believes that humans need to adapt, businesses can benefit from this new revolution and therefore he is determined to help it happen. Alan is an accredited coach (ICF ACC), supporting leaders and teams in personal and leadership development and transformation. ---------------------------------------- Episode 13 links 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐓𝐁𝐑 notes and transcript: www.businessrevolution.earth/businessrevolution13 [https://businessrevolution.earth/businessrevolution13] 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐓𝐁𝐑 episode 13 for download: audio mp3 [https://businessrevolution.earth/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/TheBusinessRevolution-episode013.mp3] 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐭𝐢𝐟𝐲: open.spotify.com/episode [https://open.spotify.com/episode/21qqmWCblHzLnWud04tgvM?si=HIEOyQRYRlerBolMgI4whQ] 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐀𝐩𝐩𝐥𝐞 𝐏𝐨𝐝𝐜𝐚𝐬𝐭: podcasts.apple.com [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-13-demystifying-the-s-in-esg/id1736051723?i=1000709197342] 📺 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f4fa.png] 𝐘𝐨𝐮𝐭𝐮𝐛𝐞: video [https://youtu.be/vI0RcVu4izs] Social media posts: Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/demystifying-esg-thebusinessrevolution-g4wtc] – Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/thebusinessrevolution/posts/pfbid0vEVsznZTtxpRYQKSakCyHvLwrYVDApvbjXSUzT9zdAxy8kijdmk5hMoK51JsftLtl] – Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/p/DJ5MDEAB5NS/] ---------------------------------------- > The ‘S’ in ESG: Glow Up Careers’ impactful approach [https://businessrevolution.earth/businessrevolution7/] ---------------------------------------- TRANSCRIPT – EPISODE 13 Mik Aidt (00:00) Welcome, or welcome back, to The Business Revolution, the podcast where we are trying to rewrite the rules of business for a sustainable future. I’m Mik, your co-host. Alan Taylor (00:11) And I’m Alan. Cherry Ward (00:12) And I’m Cherry. We’re your guides on this journey to explore the intersection of business, sustainability and positive change. Mik Aidt (00:20) In each episode, we bring you inspiring conversations with experts and change makers who are proving that sustainability is not just good for the planet, it’s good for business. Alan Taylor (00:31) And we uncover innovative solutions, we share practical strategies, and we discover the new trends that will help the future of sustainable businesses in all of their contexts. Cherry Ward (00:41) So whether you’re a seasoned CEO, a budding entrepreneur, or simply curious about how to make a difference, you’ve come to the right place. Mik Aidt (00:50) So grab a cup of your favorite sustainable brew, settle in and get ready to be inspired. This is The Business Revolution. JINGLE with song Alan Taylor (00:58) In this episode, we’re diving deep into the often misunderstood, yet absolutely critical pillar of the ESG, the S for social. Mik Aidt (01:06) And this is, you know, we often talk about it as something with diversity or being nice, you know, inclusion among the employees and so on. And that’s of course, that is a part of it. But today we are hoping to broaden out our lens to explore the fundamental responsibility that business actually have to the very fabric of society that they operate in. Cherry Ward (01:27) So we will be unpacking what it truly means for businesses to be good social citizens from how they treat their employees, know, engage with their communities to the ethical considerations within their supply chains and beyond. So this is going to be a really great episode to look at more broadly at the S. Mik Aidt (01:46) And we should mention that today we haven’t invited an expert in because we have one among us. Cherry, we consider you the expert of the S in ESG. So we’ll be hearing from you and about your experiences and actually interviewing you a little bit. But I think before we start, let’s again, like last time when we talked about the E, let’s first of all hear what would it sound like if a CEO was to stand up and say, listen, folks, employees, I’m calling you. This is what we are going to talk about when we talk about the S in ESG. Here’s a take on that: CEO (02:21) Thank you for taking the time to listen. I know you’re busy. Leading teams, driving strategy, managing complexity. We’ve talked about the S in ESG before. You might have written some soft kind words about it in your company’s latest CSR or ESG report. But let me be clear. The S in ESG is not soft. It’s not an afterthought. It is the foundation of trust, of resilience, of your license to operate. Because here’s the truth. Businesses do not exist in a vacuum. Every company is embedded in a social fabric made up of workers, customers, suppliers and communities. And that fabric is fraying. We live in an era of polarisation, inequality, dislocation and mistrust. Around the world, people are questioning whether the system still works for them. Whether business still serves just shareholders and disregards everything else. If we as leaders don’t address that head on, then we are not just risking reputational damage for our company. We are actually at risk of social collapse at a global scale. I am not here to suggest you can fix everything, but I am here to tell you that every business decision you make, how you treat your workers, how you pay your people, how you engage with your suppliers and community, it all matters. Social responsibility is not charity, it’s a strategy. Treat your employees fairly and you build loyalty, innovation and lasting retention. Invest in your communities and you create stable markets and sustainable growth.  Prioritise diversity and inclusion and you unlock talent and resilience your competitors are missing. And let’s not pretend this is just an issue in the Western world. The global supply chains we depend on, from minerals to manufacturing to food, are often built on human suffering. Forced labor, child labor, unsafe conditions, these are not distant problems. They are embedded in the products we profit from. And silence is complicity.  So the question becomes what kind of leaders do we want to be? The ones who look away? Or the ones who take responsibility? Who is accountable for the decisions and choices we’ve made? We cannot outsource ethics. We cannot defer values to a compliance department. Social impact is a boardroom issue, a leadership issue, your issue. And here’s the opportunity. Business can be the most powerful force for good in the world. We can raise standards, empower workers and lift communities. Not someday, not hypothetically, but today through the decisions we make. So this is my challenge to you. Look beyond quarterly results. Ask what kind of society your business is helping to create. Will your legacy be extraction or contribution, exploitation or dignity? Because the world is watching, employees are watching, customers are watching, and the next generation of talent is making values-based choices. So ask yourself not just are we successful, but are we just, are we human? Are we proud of how we treat people? The S in ESG is about people and there is no sustainable future without them. on the right side of history. Ban Ki-moon, former United Nations General-Secretary It may sound strange to speak of revolution, but that is what we need at this time. We need a revolution. Revolutionary thinking, revolutionary action! Song It’s both cheaper and cleaner and healthy too. Now the business revolution starts with you. Mik Aidt (06:14) And as we mentioned in our last episode where we talked about the E in ESG, we’ve created these courses. We’re still working on making more courses about ESG, E-learning courses that can be used for you if you’re running a business and you have employees, then these courses are meant to educate and inspire employees about what is this thing, ESG, and how do we go about it and why have we even entered this space?  And I think, you know, just to set the right tone, let’s hear a little snippet from the first course, the introduction to ESG, just so we get it right. What is the E and the S and the G very briefly explained. ESG e-learning course speakers (06:52) “What is ESG all about? ESG is about how we take responsibility for our planet, our well-being in the workplace, and how management focuses on ensuring we have a good and sustainable everyday life. E stands for our organisation’s impact on climate and the environment. S is for our organisation’s contribution to well-being and a fairer society. G for governance and ethics, decision-making and reporting. Click on the yellow button to start the quiz.” Cherry Ward (07:27) So we’ve just seen the little video explaining what the E and the S and the G is. And I think, from my perspective, the S is not soft. Often people think the S is the soft, fluffy stuff. But for me, it’s a foundation of trust and for a business, it’s their license to operate. So let’s elaborate on why we see the social aspect as foundational for business success and their longevity as well. Alan Taylor (07:54) I think that’s a really cool point and I love that. I’m going to latch back on something else you said earlier there, Cherry. It’s about it being an ethical consideration. It’s because that’s where when we say it’s not just being soft, sometimes to actually fix the ethical issues, we need to be pretty hard. We need to work hard and change often patterns or behaviors at every stage in the whole supply chain. And because ethics is it’s very is about a lot is around what is right, but also what is perceived as right and what is the impact on your business.  And a really good example of that is that if anybody is watching what’s happening to Tesla at the moment in the market. Whether you believe in Trump and Elon Musk sort of behaviors at the moment or not, the fact is that they are having an impact on Tesla sales, especially in Europe. And so that’s an example of where the ethics part of the S plays a big part in your business. It’s how markets are perceived, both as a carrot to instill customers to come to you, or obviously putting people off. Mik Aidt (08:55) And I think, you know, this thing also, as we heard in the pep talk, the CEO pep talk there is really important to talk about, you know, how do we move beyond the shareholder centric model that is really the core of the problem of many things that is wrong at the moment.  For instance, I believe deeply that the climate change problem we have in this world goes back to that, that businesses are so focused on their shareholders and not so much focused on the environment and the impact that their decisions have on society as a whole. So moving away from the shareholder centric model and considering the impact that our decisions have on all stakeholders, which are the employees, the customers, the communities, the suppliers and the planet. Cherry Ward (09:41) Absolutely. And I think the last one often gets forgotten. You know, it’s the silent stakeholder just because it doesn’t have a voice. know, and I think taking that sort of holistic view of all stakeholders is really key. And it was interesting you mentioned Tesla, Alan.  I was just recently listening to ‘If You’re Listening’, the ABC podcast, and they talk about another business in the United States who’s made the same mistake as Tesla many years ago, which is, don’t know if you’ve heard of, know, the Coors beer company. If you go back, it’s a really fascinating story and it has direct sort of parallels to Tesla. And we’ll put that in the show notes, but it talks about how this company, they didn’t look at, you know, all the aspects of S and so you had all of these different groups, whether they were, they were anti-union initially. But not only do they impact people who were unionised, also, you know, the LBGTI community, the migrants and so if all of these small groups or what you would call minority groups stop buying this particular brand of beer and they still haven’t recovered to this day, you know, people will buy Budweiser over Coors And so I think there’s so many lessons in that in terms of the S is just so much more and I think there’s so much depth in terms of how we look at it and the view of, you know, how do we make sure that we are considering all of the stakeholders in how an organisation or its leaders make decisions that impact all of their stakeholders. Alan Taylor (11:14) Yeah, it’s a great point. And I think we’ve, there’s two bits I wanna latch together. One is to remind me of more examples of this body shop in the UK that went bust last year. And that was because its owners, I’ve forgotten who bought them, but they disregarded its origins, which was an environment and social, both of the two. And as they describe, regarded that they lost their customer base and eventually they collapsed.  But another point you mentioned is a silent stakeholder. And I think what’s a really curious part with that is that quite often they are actually even the shareholders, the significant shareholders. And there it’s a case of each of the shareholders is thinking, I believe this, but I don’t know. Therefore, I won’t put my voice up. I won’t put my hand up. But then you get certain cases where somebody’s, it’s almost like if people know the concept of the first follower, the first organisation or person starts the ball rolling, but they’re not noticed as being doing it. But once one or two people follow them, everybody follows the first follower. And that was an example that was demonstrated here in Australia when Atlassian boss decided that he wanted to try and buy AGL to clean them up. AGL was like, no, we’re not going to actually do anything because our shareholders are not going to actually care. I know this is environment, but it’s an example of the situation about gas pollution and burning coal. But once he tried to buy the shares, well, he did buy a significant number of shares, suddenly there’s a whole backlash. All these silent people who are not liking the idea or were afraid of putting their hands up suddenly were. And so I think there’s a lot of that that’s happening in the social space as well. It’s just people are not quite brave enough to put their hands up. Mik Aidt (12:51) Hmm. Cherry, tell us a little bit about your background and how you have been working with the ‘S’ in ESG for a long time. And then also what that brings you to today. Where are your headlines? What is the most important when we talk about the S in your view? Cherry Ward (12:59) Yes. Absolutely. So I’ve been sort of in organisational development, people and culture roles, and specifically being accountable for, diversity and inclusion and also extension of that community and stakeholder, in HR leadership roles. And so I’ve been involved in designing, delivering and implementing initiatives for DEI, diversity, equity and inclusion.  I think most people are familiar with that. That’s become a word that, or a term that people are comfortable with. But I think the other aspect of it is more around that community and social impact work. So I’ve worked for organisations that are global and you know not every country is like Australia where everyone’s you know living in a developed country so sometimes I think organisations that are thinking about well how can we improve the very fabric of this society that we’re operating in you know yes we’re here to make money but at the same time if we’re able to improve lives improve people’s you know whether it’s living standards the way they think about life, aspirations and so on.  That’s where that sort of community development, that social impact work comes in. So I think, you know, there are some great organisations out there doing a lot of that social impact work within the community, be it with Indigenous and First Nations or with low socioeconomic minority groups and so on.  So I think there’s so many opportunities for organisations and what you will reap or the return on investment is so much more than what you see just on the balance sheet. To the point where whether it’s employees, their families, one company I worked for, they even started naming the kids the name of the organisation just because they saw the value and it was changing the lives of these communities that they were serving in. Sorry, that was a long way of answering your question, Mik. Mik Aidt (14:58) No, yeah. So what are the headlines? Let’s say if I’m a CEO or someone who has, you know, decisions to make in this area, in my company, what would you say are the headlines? What’s the most important right now? Whether, you know, the world keeps changing and suddenly, for instance, the DEI really became famous because of Trump, you know, who has sort of put it in a very different light, hasn’t he? Cherry Ward (15:20) Absolutely. And for the wrong reasons, right? I’ve just read a report that just came out this week around, you know, the top reasons why employees are disillusioned. One of the top reasons is around companies not doing enough in the environment, social space, in the ESG space, essentially.  So I think first of all, there’s an opportunity. The headline is engage with your employees because that’s so powerful. Because when you engage with your employees, yeah, they’re going to talk about the organisation at barbecues.  You know, they will try and get their families to work experience, whatever it may be. It’s a bit like, you know, going back several decades ago when companies had family barbecues, for example. So think focus on your employees. They are your key stakeholders. They’re the ones that are delivering your work and making the sales, your services, so on. But then it’s also your customers who are buying from you and then the communities, how are you giving back to the communities and then the supply chain as well. And of course the planet, the silent stakeholder. How do we change the narrative so that we are thinking and putting ourselves in the shoes of the stakeholders who might not be, who might not have a voice? I’ve heard of one organisation at a board meeting, they said, what if we put ourselves in the shoes of whales? What would they have to say about what we’re doing? Alan Taylor (16:43) Yeah, and it’s a beautiful one because we’ve got to sort of keep our eyes on that. And I just got to say a little interjection that a lot of people might be hearing this and going, but companies are not doing it. You mentioned Trump. That’s what brought this one out. And there’s a lot of noise about, yeah, so and so is dropping their reducing their DEI policies. They’re dropping their social governance policies and obviously environment. Interestingly, though, they’re the noisy headlines. Recent research by PwC came up, just was shared only a couple of weeks ago, showing that actually, although a few companies have dropped their targets, actually more have increased their targets. And so companies have to be aware that if they are not doing this, it’s not only that it’s saving them money at the moment, which is often what a lot of companies do, they are going to become further and further behind, even though the noise is not making that clear to them perhaps, but it’s something they have to be watching for their own sustainability. Mik Aidt (17:40) I think the world is beginning to realise, even those people who thought that Trump was a great thinker and the rest, you know, are beginning to realise that America is in a big mess and the way they’re moving away from EVs, for instance, and moving away from wind turbines and so on, it’s gonna hurt.  It’s gonna actually cost people in the long run because, you know, the rest of the world is moving on and very soon there won’t be anything else but EVs and the Americans will be going around in their fossil fuel cars and feeling really sorry because they’re getting more more expensive to drive. Alan Taylor (18:12) Just thinking to the, so the consequences, I’m just gonna divert back to another point that Cherry made. And it’s interesting when we think about America, but also Australia and the other first world countries as we’re often referred to the global North. It’s actually interesting, there’s a lot of social issues outside of the DEI, which are there as well. And being cognisant of how broad this topic actually is.  In modern slavery, and I’ve forgotten the phrase, maybe somebody can remind me. There’s another one which isn’t quite the same as modern slavery, but it’s very similar in my view, in that, you know, the rich countries are still employing people at below rates, or they’re coercing people into paying horrendous fees to, well, provide you the support you need to get into our country, but not, you know, they’re ripping them off, or tying them into… constraining contracts where they can’t move.  This is a form of modern slavery and it happens even here in Australia. If that’s in your supply chain, could you sleep at night if you were actually involved explicitly in that? Wouldn’t it be better to know that you’ve actually got a clean slate and that you’re actually doing this with that in mind? Mik Aidt (19:18) Conscience is the word I think. I think also the customers are increasingly, know, younger customers have more of that conscience, certainly the planetary conscience and the awareness of that we are hurting our planet and all life on it. And I think also these young people are making choices accordingly, you know, when they buy their products and so on. This is something where again, the S is not just like a nice thing to do. It is actually really about understanding your customers and how they want to live in this world. Cherry Ward (19:50) Absolutely.  Alan Taylor (19:50) Being able to sleep at night knowing that you’ve helped make the world a better place. Mik Aidt (19:54) So, Cherry, just that thing about the ethical something you had mentioned. Let’s have that in before we round off. Cherry Ward (19:58) Yeah, so one thing I do want to touch on, it’s really important part of the S is the ethical supply chains. So, know, Alan, you touched on modern slavery, I think it’s an extension of that. It’s about how do organisations think about how do they end the hidden human suffering behind global supply chains, you know, think about the low wages and third world developing countries and so on.  And a lot of these people don’t see it. might buy a product and they think, okay, it’s green, eco conscious, whatever it is. But then it’s looking at, where is it actually made? How is it ethically sourced? know, is it fair labor practices?  You know, especially in sort of that complex global sort of organisations and then I think the question that I get asked most of the time, the work that Alan and I are doing is, well, this is all great, but what’s the return on investment? And so what’s exciting is, you know, there are ways that you can measure social impact. And Alan and I are working, you know, with Dr. Daniel Fujiwara and looking at how do we measure the social impact of these initiatives so that it’s, you know, it’s tangible. And you can say by investing in this particular social initiative, this is what we were able to contribute towards society, towards our business and so on. But more to come in future episodes on that. Mik Aidt (21:21) This is such a crucial conversation. can’t just end it here, but we will end this podcast. We’ll have to because we don’t want them to be too long. But certainly, as you can hear, the S raises some questions. The ‘S’ in ESG raises questions to you about your role in your business and how your business plays in the wider social fabric. What steps can your business take, big or small, to create this more responsible and impactful social citizen. Cherry Ward (21:48) Absolutely. I think, you know, we can deep dive into some of the elements of S and we’ve had some great episodes already from season one that dives into some of the great work that people are doing and we’ll put them in the show notes because I think that S is just more than diversity and inclusion. I think that’s what people think about when they think about the ‘S’. It’s about all of the stakeholders and what are we doing or what are businesses and leaders doing to ensure that we are meeting the needs of all of our stakeholders. Mik Aidt (22:17) Remember, the revolution doesn’t end here. It’s up to each and every one of us to take this knowledge and inspiration that you hopefully also picked up from today’s episode and turn it into action. Alan Taylor (22:28) And that’s whether it’s implementing sustainable practices in your own business or advocating for change in your community. Every step counts towards building a better future. And I’m just going to call out quickly, keep an eye out for our future episode when we are chatting to Daniel Fujiwara because that’s going to give you so much insight into how that can be done. Cherry Ward (22:45) And don’t forget to visit our website, businessrevolution.earth for more resources, past episodes and ways to get involved. Just one more thing I wanted to add is, you we’d love to hear your thoughts and examples. So connect with us on social media or visit our website, drop us a note and share any insights on this ESG series. And we’d love to get some. Mik Aidt (23:05) Because your feedback actually helps us reach even further out, reach more listeners and amplify our collective impact. Alan Taylor (23:15) So thank you for joining us on this journey of transformation. Together we can revolutionise the way we do business, and take pride in the fact that we are creating a world that’s sustainable for generations to come. Cherry Ward (23:27) So stay tuned for insights and inspirations and actionable steps to help you reshape the way we do business for a better tomorrow. We have some fantastic guests lined up for future episodes. Alan Taylor (23:39) So until next time, keep innovating, keep inspiring and keep pushing for positive change for a brighter tomorrow. I’m Alan. Cherry Ward (23:46) And I’m Cherry. Mik Aidt (23:47) And I’m Mik, signing off. The Business Revolution starts with you. ---------------------------------------- THE BUSINESS REVOLUTION LINKS CONNECT IN SOCIAL MEDIA ► Follow TBR on Facebook: www.facebook.com/thebusinessrevolution [https://www.facebook.com/thebusinessrevolution] ► Follow TBR on Instagram:  www.instagram.com/thebusinessrevo [https://www.instagram.com/thebusinessrevo] ► Follow TBR on Youtube: www.youtube.com/@TheBusinessRevo [https://www.youtube.com/@TheBusinessRevo] PODCAST PLAYERS ► Subscribe on Spotify: ► Subscribe on Apple Podcast:  podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-business-revolution/id1736051723 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-business-revolution/id1736051723] JOIN THE BUSINESS REVOLUTION ► Sign up to TBR newsletter and/or TBR’s networks here:  www.businessrevolution.earth/join [https://businessrevolution.earth/join] ABOUT THE BUSINESS REVOLUTION ► Here’s an introduction to the podcast – audio and transcript:  > 8-minute trailer for The Business Revolution [https://businessrevolution.earth/launching-episode-1/] ► Introduction – 8-minute trailer on Youtube: ---------------------------------------- [powerpress_playlist]

20. maj 2025 - 24 min
episode Episode 12: Demystifying the “E” in ESG cover

Episode 12: Demystifying the “E” in ESG

The Business Revolution Episode 12 In this episode, we delve into the “E” of ESG (Environmental, Social, and Governance), focusing on the environmental aspects and their growing importance in the business world. We demystify the ESG framework, explaining how it helps stakeholders understand an organization’s sustainability risks and opportunities. The discussion covers: • Businesses that adapt quickly, embrace innovation, and stay ahead of regulations can turn ESG into an opportunity for growth and resilience. • What “E” entails – greenhouse gas emissions, waste management, natural resource stewardship, and resilience against climate risks. • The evolution of ESG from EHS (Environment, Health, and Safety) in the 1980s to corporate sustainability in the 1990s and CSR (Corporate Social Responsibility) in the 2000s, leading to the comprehensive ESG framework we see today. • The urgency of climate action and the need for immediate action to address climate change, urging business leaders to phase out fossil fuels and embrace renewable energy. • Practical steps for businesses to Assess climate-related risks, reduce carbon emissions, adopting circular economy practices, and managing resources sustainably. • The role of technology and innovation – the importance of clean technologies, green innovation, and the use of AI and blockchain in ESG reporting. • The changing regulatory landscape and the increasing number of environmental regulations. • The relevance of ESG in 2025, its continued importance as an investment trend, despite regional differences and challenges. • Employee engagement and the importance of engaging your employees in your environmental and sustainability goals. ---------------------------------------- Audio version: ---------------------------------------- My call to CEOs – about the “E” in ESG BIOS IN BRIEF:  Mik Aidt Mik has been a highly influential player with respect to our environment, with very active communications experience for over 10 years. Examples include playing a very significant part in the global ‘Climate Emergency Declaration’ movement, and long-lived podcasts. Cherry Ward Cherry is a seasoned leadership development expert, coach (ICF ACC), and advisor with over two decades of experience in the corporate world. She is also the founder of Bluebird Leadership, a boutique consulting firm pioneering innovative solutions that cultivate thriving leaders, teams, cultures, and a sustainable planet. Alan Taylor Alan has moved from corporate IT consulting into this domain because he adamantly believes that humans need to adapt, businesses can benefit from this new revolution and therefore he is determined to help it happen. Alan is an accredited coach (ICF ACC), supporting leaders and teams in personal and leadership development and transformation. ---------------------------------------- Episode 12 links 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐓𝐁𝐑 notes and transcript: www.businessrevolution.earth/businessrevolution12 [https://businessrevolution.earth/businessrevolution11] 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐓𝐁𝐑 episode 12 for download: audio mp3 [https://businessrevolution.earth/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/TheBusinessRevolution-episode012.mp3] 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐒𝐩𝐨𝐭𝐢𝐟𝐲: open.spotify.com/episode [https://open.spotify.com/show/5g4fJTgaTq8WS0XEbdHwat?si=Dfdtfd3fRGek4xfQhG15GQ] 🎧 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f3a7.png] 𝐀𝐩𝐩𝐥𝐞 𝐏𝐨𝐝𝐜𝐚𝐬𝐭: podcasts.apple.com [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-12-demystifying-the-e-in-esg/id1736051723?i=1000700013900] 📺 [https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f4fa.png] 𝐘𝐨𝐮𝐭𝐮𝐛𝐞: video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYpNGQq6E38&ab_channel=TheBusinessRevolution] Social media posts: Linkedin [https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/demystifying-e-esg-thebusinessrevolution-q8d8c] – Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1A7HCLMfVT/] – Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/p/DHZ-x9VhorA/] ---------------------------------------- TRANSCRIPT – EPISODE 12 Cherry Ward (00:00) Welcome or welcome back to the business revolution, the podcast where we’re rewriting the rules of business for a sustainable future. I’m Cherry, your co host. Alan Taylor (00:09) And I’m Alan. Mik Aidt (00:10) And I’m Mik. We are your guides on this journey to explore the intersection of business, sustainability and positive change. Alan Taylor (00:18) And in each episode, are bringing inspirational conversations with experts, entrepreneurs, and change makers who are proving that sustainability isn’t just good for the planet, it’s actually good for business. Cherry Ward (00:28) We will uncover innovative solutions, share practical strategies, and discover the new trends that will shape the future of sustainable business. Mik Aidt (00:37) So whether you are a seasoned CEO or an entrepreneur or simply curious about how to make a difference, you’ve come to the right place. Alan Taylor (00:46) So grab a cup of your favorite brew, settle in, and get ready to be inspired. This is the business revolution. Cherry Ward (00:52) So this episode is just the three of us and we have a special three part series on ESG, environmental, social and governance. You may have heard of us referring to ESG many times throughout the various episodes on this podcast. So we want to demystify this acronym. Alan Taylor (01:10) So what is ESG? Well, ESG is essentially a framework which helps, and this is an important bit, help stakeholders understand how an organisation manages risks and opportunities around sustainability issues. And starting with the E, the environment, environmental factors refer to an organisation’s environmental impacts and risk management practices. That sounds all big and complicated, but these include directly and indirectly all of the things that a business creates or has an impact on. They include things like greenhouse gas emissions, waste management and pollution, management stewardship over natural resources.  That means its impact on things like biodiversity, trees, all those sorts of things. And quite often, they’re not as obvious. You’re not as avoided from that as you might think. So please listen on.  You’ll hear more as we talk through, because this has an impact also on the firm’s overall resilience against physical climate risks, like climate change, flooding, and fires. But there’s more than that. The thing is, all of these things impact the business indirectly as well. As the politics and the things around the world are changing, the environment is very broad reaching. Cherry Ward (02:17) Then there’s the social pillar, which refers to the organisation’s relationship with all of its stakeholders. Examples include human capital management metrics, so things like fair wages, employee engagement, employee wellbeing, but also an organisation’s impact on communities in which it operates. And a hallmark of ESG is how social impact expectations have extended outside the walls of a company, to its supply chain partners, and particularly in those developing countries where environmental and social labor standards may be less robust. Mik Aidt (02:54) And then there’s the G, which stands for governance. Governance in a corporation, that’s about how a CEO, how the management leads and takes the organisation to a new place. You could say, ESG analysts will seek to understand.  For instance, how leadership incentives are aligned with stakeholders’ expectations, how shareholder rights are viewed and honored, and what types of internal controls exist in the company to promote transparency and accountability on the part of leadership. And I think that’s a very important word when we talk about the G accountability. So that was just a brief on what is the E, what is the S, and what is the G. But how did it all come about, this ESG thing?  We’ve created a little course, and when I say we, in that context, it’s a company from Denmark. A good friend of mine has a company called Kelsa Media, and together with a friend here in Geelong, where I am based, we run a company called Geelong Media. So it’s a collaboration between Geelong Media and Kelsa Media that stands behind producing these small courses about different topics. We talk about cybersecurity, we talk about personal data protection, and we have started a new series about ESG, which is all about getting the employees in tune with what does this mean? So the first course we have in that series is simply called An Introduction to ESG. And in that course, we have just a little explanation about how did ESG come about, where did it all start? And it goes like this. ————————————————————————— Cherry Ward (04:27) The concept of ESG has evolved over several decades. We may have heard of EHS, environment, health and safety in the 80s, which is still around, corporate sustainability in the 90s, CSR, which is corporate social responsibility.  And there’s been several iterations, which has broadened the scope of how businesses consider their impact on the environment, society, and the wider stakeholders. So while early approaches were often reactive or used for marketing purposes, greenwashing, ESG has emerged as a more proactive and a comprehensive framework, which encompasses environmental and social impact, as well as governance structures, how a company goes about governing you know, it’s ethical decision making and so on that prioritises stakeholder wellbeing as a fundamental basis. Alan Taylor (05:21) Just adding into that is, there’s a common perception that the stakeholders or the people around are not actually that bothered. And there’s a few cases in the last couple of years where the big Australian business people have gone, I don’t think that’s true. And they’ve upset the apple cart. This happened in particular with AGL. Mike Cannon-Brooks attempted a takeover and you can see that what happened then was the shareholders who had previously been believing, know, everybody believed was not interested when actually, yeah, this is important. And they had a very big shift in the organisation over the next two years. So that gives you an idea that sometimes what we perceive and what is reality are not the same. Mik Aidt (05:59) So let’s get even deeper into what the E in ESG means. And as we have already mentioned a couple of times, there’s a lot of climate change in there. It does have a lot to do with what’s happening to our atmosphere, the extreme weather events, and so on.  So we’ve put another little video together. And when I say we here, it’s us, the business revolution, where we are trying to convince or we’re going to show you why we think business leaders need to pay attention here when it comes to getting into ESG. ———————————————————– Video (06:29) Thank you for taking the time to listen. I know your schedules are packed. You run businesses, you make decisions that shape industries, and many of you have been hearing about climate change for decades. Perhaps you’ve even taken steps to address it. But let me make one thing crystal clear. We are out of time for half measures.  For nearly four decades, scientists have warned that human-caused climate change was accelerating. Every major prediction has come true, faster and with greater severity than expected. And yet year after year we have failed to course correct at the speed science demands.  I am not here to tell you that you alone can stop climate change. But I am here to tell you that as business leaders you hold more power than most governments. While policy makers argue and delay, industries act. The choices you make, what energy you buy, what materials you source, what supply chains you build, send ripples through the entire economy.  Right now we are at a turning point. The window for limiting global warming to a livable level is closing. 2024 marked the first year in human history that global temperatures temporarily exceeded 1.5 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels. This is no longer a distant warning, it is our present reality. And as we have seen, that means more extreme weather, supply chain disruptions, food insecurity and economic instability, threats that will not only harm people but your businesses as well.  But here’s the good news. We know exactly what to do. We need to phase out fossil fuels quickly. That means electrifying everything possible, sourcing power from renewables, investing in efficiency and pushing for carbon pricing policies that make polluters pay for the damage they cause. And yes, that means rethinking business models. Not in 10 years. Not in 5. Now. I know this is not easy. Change never is. But let me be blunt. If your industry continues to rely on fossil fuels, if net zero remains a distant goal instead of an immediate priority, you are betting against the future. You are betting against your own children and grandchildren.  There is no time for greenwashing. No time for empty commitments. You are decision makers. So decide, will you be part of the problem or part of the solution? The next decade will define what kind of world we leave behind. Be on the right side of history. We stopped the burning, we found a better way…it’s both cheaper and cleaner… ———————————————————— Mik Aidt (09:31) So obviously, as was expressed in this letter or speech, greenhouse gases is the number one and electrifying your business. But it’s also about getting prepared for what’s coming, adapting to the physical impacts, the extreme weather events that are already here and certainly are impacting businesses in so many ways as we’re already seeing. If you go into the supermarket, there’s suddenly empty shelves here and there. And that’s a direct result of climate change. So it’s about how can we get prepared and we need to get our employees involved as well in that preparing and thinking about the risks, the climate related risks that are ahead of us, but also the opportunities that are in this change that’s happening globally. And what are the most effective strategies for reducing our carbon emissions very quickly? And how can we as a business contribute to that transition to a low carbon economy as what we’re talking about? Cherry Ward (10:27) And some of the questions that businesses can ask themselves as they plan and go through their strategy sessions and off sites and alike is, how can we assess our climate related risk and opportunities? What are some of the most effective strategies for reducing carbon emissions?  Even things like, I know there’s this big debate around return to office mandates. Has anyone actually measured the carbon footprint of people returning to the office? Whether they’re driving, commuting, how they’re commuting, et cetera. So I think there’s a lot of ways and I think it’s thinking outside the box. How can businesses, how can we as an organisation contribute to a low carbon economy? And it’s thinking about those different scopes and emissions. We won’t get too technical here, but it’s more than just the direct carbon emissions. Alan Taylor (11:14) And so it’s about adapting to a lot of this. As Mick touched on, some of these things can be low hanging fruit and quick savings. And even that isn’t as unbelievable as it might be. We had a speaker on the podcast a few months ago who was talking about how moving homes and small businesses to electric can save money immediately because of the various funding options that are available as well as the long-term benefits from electrification.  You’ve got that sort of savings that come through how we think about our impact on the environment and water. Well, if you’re using less water, you’ve got less cost of buying as much. It’s the same with all of our other events and actions. Cherry Ward (11:50) The other aspect of environment is.. the resource management. So organisations to think about, are we using resources, water, land, forest, et cetera, sustainably? What’s our waste management practices? And are we looking at how can we adopt circular economy thinking and practices into the business, as well as pollution prevention and control, and then also biodiversity conservation. Alan Taylor (12:15) Waste management is another easy, quick win. By managing the waste properly in your building, obviously it depends on your building structure. You might have to talk to a building manager around doing this in a big corporate shared building. if you’ve reduced the actual landfill and put more into recycling, that actually reduces your waste management bills as well as having an impact on the environment. So some of these other quick wins you can have can be really powerful. Cherry Ward (12:40) Absolutely, Alan There’s one organisation that I used to work for and they did this 15 years ago. There was a mixed use building. So by mixed use, I mean, you’ve got, you know, say retail, commercial, residential, and they were using the air conditioning heat from the retail shopping center underneath to heat the pool for the residential complex. So it doesn’t have to be overly complicated. It’s just thinking about how can we divert that waste into an energy source? Alan Taylor (13:09) It’s a beautiful example of where it’s about thinking differently and how we approach these things. Because for that, it wasn’t a me or you. The example you just used there, Cherry it’s like, you’ve got this conversation that’s got to be had. Well, we’ve got a pool, we’ve got some excess heat. How can we help each other and not be, it’s just all about me. And that’s been happening in other areas with resource management.  Perfect example is a lot of the councils around the country or water management and waste management now using that for bioenergy. I’m thinking, how can they put that same waste to create heat, to actually create power? These are where, hang on a minute, shouldn’t these be separate utilities? No. Let’s complement each other and support that system that we need. Mik Aidt (13:50) On top of everything that we’ve talked about here is of course that the landscape of law and legislation is changing quickly. Governments are actually beginning to wake up to this. And I think in particular in the EU, we’re seeing new laws that are like even like shocking in terms of how much European companies now have to report on and be compliant with and so on. There are 1200 different things that they have to get their minds set in on acting on. And that will come to Australia just as well. And it is coming already. We’ve seen some new legislation here by January and more will be rolling out in the months and years to come. So that’s an aspect as well that, you know, every business need to, you know, get aligned with in many ways. And there’s a lot to look into there and a lot to learn. Alan Taylor (14:41) Yeah, and I think this is another thing we can share, especially for the listeners who are in Melbourne, we’ve got an event in just a few weeks on the 26th of March, where we’ve got experts from finance, actual from industry and doing manufacturing, and actually helping with the measures and all the things we’ve talked about, where you can actually start to understand where the benefits are, how it all fits together. Because quite often we look at each of these aspects in silos, and the governance it’s almost like an anchor that can pull those things together in a positive way to help actually drive that change. Mik Aidt (15:13) This is important. How can businesses ensure that they are compliant with all these environmental regulations? But also how can businesses engage with stakeholders on these issues? Alan Taylor (15:23) And better still, engage with your employees at the moment. Obviously we’re almost branching into the social world. This is how they interweave. When you’ve got employees who are engaged at a time where we talk about quiet quitting and various other behavioural patterns in the workplace, if you engage people and make them actually feel part of the solution, that’s been proven to be a very big motivator and people in your organisation. So, the beauty of the crowd. Mik Aidt (15:49) And that’s the whole, exactly and that’s the whole positive story of the green transition, which is how fast technology is actually developing. It’s almost every day we hear about a new invention as something that has become faster and better or cheaper and so on. So technology is moving very, very fast. And it’s also about, you know, that businesses, of course, you take advantage of that. Cherry Ward (16:10) Yeah, absolutely. That innovation and technology is a crucial part of the E. So what are some of the clean technologies that your businesses can adopt? Again, thinking innovatively about that, even the way the investment landscape in ESG is changing.  There’s one company I can think of is called Lower Carbon Capital, and they only invest in technology that is focused on lowering carbon emissions. And they’re a huge private equity firm, investing in new startups. So thinking about that green innovation and sustainable product development, there are countless new startups emerging, looking at the role of technology in environmental management. Alan Taylor (16:56) And building on that is when you can get involved in change… back to a point that was made a bit ago, you know, change can be quite daunting for people, but when you actually put them on the bus and be the drivers of that bus, then it becomes a motivator in doing this.  And that’s one of the things, for example, Cherry and I are involved in with a group called Net Zero Map. This is a global research group, which we’ve proven that actually doing that not only helps increase motivation, it’s actually increased the ability to think outside the box. And when you weave that into your own business, when you’ve got that ability that can be used, motivated around that, that’s a reusable skill and capability that can drive your whole business capabilities outside of just the sustainability. So this is potential benefits all around. Mik Aidt (17:32) This is absolutely key because you know, really what makes a business thrive is the joy of the employees. You know, that the employees are engaged and feel, when they come to work, they feel happy, they feel engaged, they feel that this is exciting. That’s really what drives a business forward. Alan Taylor (17:53) And that’s why I love this fact that this is actually beyond the compliance. You can use the compliance almost more like a suite rather than a stick because you can use the measures that you can put in place can be actually really good motivators.  You can say, Hey guys, this is what we’ve done. We have done. And when you bring that narrative is that we have been part of it. You have been part of this. That engages your stakeholders and engages as a good stories to tell to your clients. And that builds across. You look at some of the companies like Patagonia that have actually used that as part of their branding. They didn’t used to be in this space. They’ve adapted and brought it into their culture. And it’s a big win. Mik Aidt (18:29) And that whole thing we talked about, accountability. It actually feels great to be accountable. It actually feels great when you’re showing the benefits of what you’re doing and that you are a responsible adult taking responsibility in the world we live in. That feels great at all levels. Cherry Ward (18:46) But one thing that’s been on my mind, and I’m sure it’s on a lot of our listeners as well as business leaders is thinking about, well, is ESG still relevant in 2025? I know we discussed earlier about the evolution. I think it’s just a slightly different acronym. I think it’s more of an amalgamated view of how an organisation should have ethical practices and have good governance. The future of ESG in 2025 is, it can be, you may think it’s uncertain. It’s politically charged. We know that, you know, there’s, in some regions like the US there’s some backlash. However, my view is that ESG is still a strong investment trend globally. You know, there’s a lot of data around. If you think about superannuation in Australia, the 401k funds in the US, any kind of retirement funds, they’re all investing in green technology like renewables because the return on investment over the long term is huge. It outperforms other assets or stocks. And here are some key sort of predictions from the Corporate Governance Institute. Alan Taylor (19:54) There’s some great predictions, they include the deepening regional divides, that there’s a gap between pro-ESG and anti-ESG regions. I think anybody watching world politics at the moment is seeing that, and that’s widening. They’re seeing that there’s an increased need for ESG expertise. Now there’s an interesting one. You can see these contradictions in here almost, but we’re going to need it because companies still need to upskill in a matter that’s stricter for transparency and reporting requirements, even if that’s only for certain regions.  Now, if you’re an exporter to Europe, for example, or want to be an exporter to Europe, you’re going to need to do this. Plus, course, Australian regulations started, the 1st of January. Technology is driving ESG reporting. AI and blockchain will revolutionise ESG data collection and analysis. And then, of course, you’ve got to battle with the hushing in the US. Companies in the US may become quieter around their ESG efforts to avoid political backlash, but there’s also a big push for a lot of this in the US still in a lot of the states.  So it’s this very regional and there’s still a rise of corporate activism. There’s this polarized view on ESG. It’s going to lead to increased investor activism. We’ve already starting to see this. I mentioned a case, an example earlier with, with AGL in Australia. So this is how it’s sort of going to go. It’s a bit messy, but it’s definitely moving in that direction. Cherry Ward (21:14) Absolutely. I think the story of ESG is being written in real time. You know, we won’t know what happens, you know, at the end of 2025, where we’ll be but whilst, you know, Alan spoke about the lie, the loud political pushback in the media. And you contrast that with what’s happening actually in investment in terms of dollars, you know, and where investors are putting their money, which is into, you know, companies that are focused on ESG, renewable tech and so on. So I think despite all of these challenges, businesses that can adapt quickly, can embrace innovation and stay ahead of regulations can… they can turn ESG into an opportunity for growth and resilience. Alan Taylor (21:57) And they’re not just a few companies. Last year, 2024, the actual investment in environment, and obviously we’re talking environmental here, environmental investment. I haven’t got the figures off the top of my head, but they have been the highest. They’ve continued growing. Even at the end of 2024, they slowed down a bit, but they haven’t stopped. And so, yeah, this is not going to go away for sure. Mik Aidt (22:18) This was all we could sort of talk about the E in such a short time that we have in our episodes of the Business Revolution. But of course, there’s a lot more to say and we’ll put that out in our notes on the website, businessrevolution.earth. And including, for instance, that introduction course that I talked about, the E learning course for employees about ESG and other things that we have talked about in the 20 minutes that we’ve been talking. Alan Taylor (22:47) So that’s a wrap for this episode of the Business Revolution. We hope you enjoyed diving deep into the world of business and sustainability. Cherry Ward (22:54) Remember that the revolution doesn’t end here. It’s up to each and every one of us to take this knowledge and inspiration from today’s episode and turn it into action. Mik Aidt (23:04) Whether it’s implementing sustainable practices in your own business or advocating for change in your community, it all comes together. It all matters. It all steps towards building a better future for us all. Alan Taylor (23:17) And don’t forget to visit our website, businessrevolution.earth, for more resources, past episodes, and ways to get involved. Cherry Ward (23:24) And if you’ve enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to subscribe and rate and review the business revolution from your favorite podcast platform. Your feedback does help us reach more listeners and also amplify our impact. Mik Aidt (23:38) So stay tuned. The business revolution will be back with more insights and inspiration and actionable steps for you. How we reshape our world. Cherry Ward (23:46) Until next time, keep innovating, keep inspiring yourself and others and keep pushing for positive change for a brighter tomorrow. This is Cherry. Mik Aidt (23:55) Mik. Alan Taylor (23:55) And Alan signing off. The business revolution starts with you. ---------------------------------------- THE BUSINESS REVOLUTION LINKS CONNECT IN SOCIAL MEDIA ► Follow TBR on Facebook: www.facebook.com/thebusinessrevolution [https://www.facebook.com/thebusinessrevolution] ► Follow TBR on Instagram:  www.instagram.com/thebusinessrevo [https://www.instagram.com/thebusinessrevo] ► Follow TBR on Youtube: www.youtube.com/@TheBusinessRevo [https://www.youtube.com/@TheBusinessRevo] PODCAST PLAYERS ► Subscribe on Spotify: ► Subscribe on Apple Podcast:  podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-business-revolution/id1736051723 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-business-revolution/id1736051723] JOIN THE BUSINESS REVOLUTION ► Sign up to TBR newsletter and/or TBR’s networks here:  www.businessrevolution.earth/join [https://businessrevolution.earth/join] ABOUT THE BUSINESS REVOLUTION ► Here’s an introduction to the podcast – audio and transcript:  > 8-minute trailer for The Business Revolution [https://businessrevolution.earth/launching-episode-1/] ► Introduction – 8-minute trailer on Youtube: ---------------------------------------- [powerpress_playlist]

19. mar. 2025 - 26 min
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