The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria

Train Smarter, Not Harder: Heart Rate Zones, VO2 Max, and Better Fitness: Session 329 with Nick Green

In Session 329, I'm joined once again by Dr. Nick Green [https://behaviorfit.com/about/], Ph.D., BCBA-D, who's been doing some really interesting work at the intersection of fitness and behavior science. In this episode, Nick walks us through the basics of heart rate training zones and why simply "working out" isn't always enough. We talk about the general recommendation of 150 minutes of moderate to vigorous activity per week, but more importantly, how to make sure that time is actually spent in the right zones—particularly Zones 2 through 4—where you're going to see real cardiovascular benefits. From there, we get into VO2 max, what it is, why it matters, and how you can measure or estimate it—even without access to a lab. Nick also shares some practical training strategies, including the Norwegian 4x4 protocol [https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a70347085/vo2-max-workout-norwegian-4x4/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=mgu_ga_rnw_md_pmx_prog_org_us_18473187505&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=18473210572&gclid=CjwKCAjw-dfOBhAjEiwAq0RwIwBFR_e06zlAQfuitGVvzCkVh14ndTTHC5cvUA9oSbuTIesTikGrgRoC3RsQAvD_BwE], which is a structured way to improve cardiovascular fitness through intervals of high-intensity work followed by recovery. As you might expect, we also spend a good amount of time talking about behavior. Why is it so hard for people to stick with an exercise routine? What gets in the way? And how can we apply behavior-analytic principles to improve adherence? Nick makes a compelling case for the role of planning and accountability. One of the things he's seen in his coaching practice is that when people invest in structured support, they're much more likely to follow through. We talk about how environmental variables, scheduling, and clear contingencies can make or break a fitness routine. This was a really practical conversation—whether you're a behavior analyst looking to apply these principles to your own life, or just someone trying to get a little more consistent with exercise. If you're interested in working with Nick or learning more about his coaching services, be sure to check out his website, which you can find in the resource list below: * BehaviorFit.com [https://behaviorfit.com/] (Nick's website; check out his courses here [https://behaviorfit.com/academy/]!) * Nick on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholasgreenbehavioranalysis/] * BehaviorFit's Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/behaviorfit/] * Nick's previous BOP Interviews: Session 47 [https://behavioralobservations.com/be_obs/session-47-nick-green-wants-you-to-get-moving], Session 105 [https://behavioralobservations.com/be_obs/get-fit-in-2020-session-105-with-nick-green], and Session 132 [https://behavioralobservations.com/be_obs/getting-fit-during-the-pandemic-session-132-with-nick-green] * Fogel, et al. (2010) [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21541146/]. The effects of exergaming on physical activity among inactive children in a physical education classroom. * Green, et al. (2016) [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/301934730_Decreasing_bouts_of_prolonged_sitting_among_office_workers]. Decreasing bouts of prolonged sitting among office workers. * Heart Rate Training 101 [https://behaviorfit.com/zone-training-how-to-determine-your-heart-rate-and-training-zone/] * Heart Rate Zone Calculator [https://behaviorfit.com/heart-rate-zone-calculator/] * Norwegian 4X4 Study [https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1161/circulationaha.106.675041] * Norwegian 4X4 20-Year Heart-Age Reduction Study [https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/circulationaha.117.030617#abstract] * High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) effects on VO2 Max [https://www.ovid.com/jnls/acsm-msse/abstract/10.1249/mss.0b013e3180304570~aerobic-high-intensity-intervals-improve-vo2max-more-than?redirectionsource=fulltextview] Sponsor Shoutouts! * Behavior University [https://behavioruniversity.com/observations]. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course [https://behavioruniversity.com/bcba-supervisor-training], as well as their RBT offerings [https://behavioruniversity.com/rbt-online] over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. [https://behavioruniversity.com/observations.] Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout! * CEUs from Behavioral Observations [https://behavioralobservations.com/get-ceus]. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here [https://behavioralobservations.com/get-ceus]. * HRIC Recruting [https://www.hricolorado.com/]. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years. * The BOP Patreon [https://www.patreon.com/behavioralobservations]. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here [https://www.patreon.com/behavioralobservations] to learn how!

Conditioning Books as Reinforcers: How to Increase Reading Engagement in Young Children: Inside JABA 26

Episode Summary In this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Daniel Fienup [https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Daniel-Fienup/research], Dr. Kate Loomis [https://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/klc2169/], and Lilian Morales to discuss their recent paper in JABA, Turning the Page: Increasing children's preference for looking at and engaging with books [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jaba.70051]. In this episode, we explore how books can function as powerful reinforcers for young children, especially in early learning and ABA contexts. We discuss how to identify when books are actually reinforcing, how to condition books as reinforcers if they're not already, and practical strategies for incorporating them into teaching and behavior support. Key Topics Covered 1. What Makes Something a Reinforcer? * Reinforcers are defined by their effect on behavior—not by intention * A book is only a reinforcer if it increases the likelihood of a behavior * Preference ≠ reinforcement (must test it) 2. Are Books Naturally Reinforcing? * For some children: yes (especially those with strong interest in stories, visuals, or routines) * For others: books may be neutral or even aversive * Depends on learning history and prior pairing 3. Conditioning Books as Reinforcers * Pair books with already-established reinforcers (e.g., attention, snacks, praise) * Make reading interactive and engaging (voices, movement, pointing, questions) * Start with short durations and build up tolerance/enjoyment * Follow the child's lead (let them turn pages, choose books, etc.) 4. Embedding Books into Teaching * Use books as part of discrete trial or natural environment teaching * Reinforce responses with brief access to a favorite book * Incorporate targets into reading (labeling, WH questions, listener responding) * Use repeated readings to build fluency and predictability 5. Expanding Reinforcer Repertoires * Why it matters: reduces reliance on edibles or screens * Books are portable, social, and developmentally beneficial * Helps build early literacy and joint attention skills 6. Common Mistakes * Assuming all kids like books * Using books too long as a reinforcer (loses value) * Not rotating or updating book options * Ignoring signs of disengagement 7. Practical Tips * Keep a small "high-value" book rotation * Use novelty strategically * Observe what aspects the child enjoys (pictures, repetition, sensory elements) * Track what actually increases responding Takeaways * Books can absolutely function as reinforcers—but only if conditioned or preferred * Pairing and engagement are key to building their value * Using books as reinforcers supports both behavior change and language development Resources * Tsai and Greer (2006) [https://psycnet.apa.org/fulltext/2014-52010-002.html]. Conditioned Observation of Books and Accelerated Acquisition of Textual Responding by Preschool Children. * Teachers College MA in ABA [https://www.tc.columbia.edu/health-studies-applied-educational-psychology/applied-behavior-analysis/degrees--requirements/applied-behavior-analysis-ma-dual/] program. * Teachers College Ph.D. in ABA [https://www.tc.columbia.edu/health-studies-applied-educational-psychology/applied-behavior-analysis/degrees--requirements/applied-behavior-analysis-phd/] program. * Kanazawa et al. (2024) [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jaba.1061]. A comparison of parental attention and preferred items during tummy time: A consecutive controlled case series evaluation. * D. Ross & R. Douglas Greer (Eds.). (2025). When Text Speaks: Learning to Read and Reading to Learn. Sloan Publishing [https://amzn.to/4bXT0ha]. * The Fred S. Keller School [https://fredskellerschool.com/]. * Comprehensive Application of Behavior Analysis to Schooling (CABAS [https://www.cabasschools.org/]).

Comportamiento, espacio y algoritmos: Análisis de la conducta recargado, BOP en Español 17 con Alejandro León

Comportamiento, espacio y algoritmos: Análisis de la conducta recargado En este episodio de Espacio y Comportamiento, Miguel Avila [https://www.linkedin.com/in/miguel-avila-bcba-9a279893/] conversa con Alejandro León [https://www.linkedin.com/in/alejandro-leon-95b40224/] sobre una dimensión del comportamiento que históricamente ha sido poco explorada en nuestro campo: el espacio. Más allá de medir cuándo ocurre una conducta o cuántas veces se presenta, esta conversación propone mirar dónde ocurre, cómo nos movemos en el ambiente y cómo los patrones de acercamiento, alejamiento y trayectoria espacial organizan el comportamiento. Alejandro comparte su recorrido poco convencional desde la ingeniería y las matemáticas hacia la psicología científica y el análisis de la conducta, así como el papel clave que tuvo la experimentación, la interdisciplinariedad y la creatividad metodológica en su carrera. A lo largo del episodio exploramos cómo herramientas modernas como la visión por computadora, el análisis tridimensional del movimiento, los algoritmos matemáticos y las bioseñales (como la variabilidad cardíaca en tiempo real) están permitiendo un "análisis de la conducta recargado": fiel a sus principios, pero expandido por nuevas tecnologías. La conversación aterriza estos conceptos en aplicaciones prácticas para contextos clínicos, educativos y de investigación, mostrando cómo analistas de conducta —sin convertirse en ingenieros— pueden empezar a integrar el análisis espacial, colaborar con otras disciplinas y mejorar la evaluación, el diseño de ambientes y la prevención de riesgos. Un episodio inspirador para la comunidad latinoamericana y global, que demuestra que es posible innovar, producir ciencia de alto impacto y dialogar con otras disciplinas desde nuestra región hacia el mundo. Behavior, Space, and Algorithms: Behavior Analysis Reloaded In this episode of Space and Behavior, Miguel Avila sits down with Alejandro León to explore a dimension of behavior that has long been overlooked in our field: space. Rather than focusing only on when behavior occurs or how often it happens, this conversation invites us to examine where behavior unfolds, how organisms move through environments, and how spatial patterns of approach, avoidance, and trajectories organize behavior over time. Alejandro shares his unconventional journey from engineering and mathematics into scientific psychology and behavior analysis, highlighting the role of experimental work, interdisciplinary collaboration, and methodological creativity. The episode dives into how modern tools—such as computer vision, three-dimensional motion tracking, mathematical algorithms, and physiological signals like real-time heart rate variability—are making it possible to study behavior in ways that were unimaginable during the time of Watson, Thorndike, or Skinner. The result is a "reloaded" behavior analysis: conceptually rigorous, yet technologically expanded. Listeners will also hear concrete examples of how spatial data and bio-signals can inform functional assessment, environmental design, intervention planning, safety, and early detection of behavioral patterns—without requiring clinicians to become engineers. This episode is both practical and inspirational, especially for researchers, students, and practitioners in Latin America and beyond, showing that meaningful innovation in behavior analysis can emerge locally while achieving global scientific impact.

The 2025 Verbal Behavior Conference Panel Discussion: Session 326

Thanks for joining me for Session 326 of The Behavioral Observations Podcast. This episode was recorded live at the 2025 Verbal Behavior Conference, where I had the honor of moderating the annual panel discussion. If you haven't attended a previous Verbal Behavior Conference, you're in luck, because the next one is coming up in just a few short weeks. The 2026 VBC [https://behaviorlive.com/conferences/vbc/home] will be held on March 26th and 27th, and it will be preceded by a full day workshop. If you've listened to the show for any length of time, you've heard my go on about how unique this conference is. If not, please indulge me for a moment. The VBC [https://behaviorlive.com/conferences/vbc/home] is unlike any other event because each presenter gives two talks across the two days of the conference. This provides them opportunities to dive deeper into their subject matter, which gives audience members so much more information to improve their practice with. If you attend in person, you'll have numerous opportunities to interact directly with the speakers too. Whether that's between sessions getting coffee, grabbing lunch in the nearby cafe, or at the poster sessions, you're probably going to have a chance to pick their brains. If you can't be there in person, BehaviorLive provides a top-notch virtual experience. I'd also say that the VBC has a very consistent and engaged online community too, to the point of me being able to recognize many online attendees' names having seen their chat commentaries for the past few years. For this year, the VBC is pulling out all the stops by hosting a discussion with Drs. Patrick McGreevy and Mark Sundberg, where they will talk about how to decide whether a learner should continue with VB-MAPP-like learning objectives, or transition to a functional curriculum, such as Essential for Living. Thanks for indulging me, back to this episode... This panel dives into some of the most pressing clinical and practical questions facing practitioners today — from navigating difficult conversations with parents to the nuanced intricacies of mand training, motivating operations, and supporting learners with limited reinforcers. Whether you are a seasoned BCBA, or an aspiring behavior analyst, this episode is packed with the kind of insight you're just not going to get anywhere else. Featured Panelists • Dr. Judah Axe [https://www.linkedin.com/in/judah-axe-4989916/] • Dr. Patrick McGreevy [https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-mcgreevy-37aab3214/] • Dr. Barbara Esch [https://www.linkedin.com/in/barbara-esch-852560263/] • Dr. Caio Miguel [https://www.linkedin.com/in/caiomiguel/] • Dr. April Kisamore [https://www.linkedin.com/in/april-n-kisamore-ph-d-bcba-d-106044139/] • Dr. Nicole Rodriguez [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-rodriguez-a5a52594/] • Dr. Tiffany Kodak [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tiffany-kodak-87b52661/] Topics Covered in This Episode * Transitioning from Language Acquisition to Functional Skills Curricula * The Momentary Nature of Motivating Operations * Mand Training with Learners Who Engage in Self-Stimulatory Behavior * Working with Learners Who Have Very Limited Reinforcers * Pre-Requisite Skills for Learning More Complex Forms of Verbal Behavior * Instructional Control Pre-Requisites for Teaching Echoic Repertoires * Challenges of Conducting Clinical Research in Verbal Behavior * Supporting Learners from Bilingual Households Sponsor Shoutouts! * The School Behavioral Solutions for Special Educators & Behavior Analysts. The Behavior Toolbox Conference [https://behaviorlive.com/conferences/Thebxtoolbox/home] is a one-day, high-impact professional convening that brings together experienced practitioners and leaders from across education and behavior science to share what actually works in schools. While the live event has come and gone, it is available on-demand through BehaviorLive. * Behavior University [https://behavioruniversity.com/observations]. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course [https://behavioruniversity.com/bcba-supervisor-training], as well as their RBT offerings [https://behavioruniversity.com/rbt-online] over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. [https://behavioruniversity.com/observations.] Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout! * CEUs from Behavioral Observations [https://behavioralobservations.com/get-ceus]. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here [https://behavioralobservations.com/get-ceus]. * HRIC Recruting [https://www.hricolorado.com/]. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.

Developing Rapport and Sustaining Motivation in Autism Treatment: Session 325 with Alice Shillingsburg

In this episode, I talk with Dr. Alice Shillingsburg about her work on rapport building and pairing procedures in applied behavior analysis for children with autism. We explore how building therapeutic rapport goes beyond simply "liking someone," emphasizing the importance of establishing trust and engagement to facilitate learning, especially when tasks are challenging. Alice explains the nine-stage pairing protocol she developed and highlights how careful timing, observation, and reinforcement choices can make pairing effective. We discuss the significance of observing children's approach behaviors to understand their preferences and keep therapy engaging, as well as how instructional fading can gradually increase task difficulty without creating aversive experiences. During our conversation, we took a quick sidebar to talk about the upcoming Verbal Behavior Conference. This is a conference like none other. Whether you participate online or make the short drive to Austin, you'll be treated to very in-depth talks about generative learning for individuals with Autism and related disabilities. Learn more and register here [https://behaviorlive.com/conferences/vbc/home]. We also dive into practical applications — how pairing and instructional procedures can be adapted in real-world therapy settings, while still maintaining their effectiveness. Alice talks about data collection strategies for engagement and behavior, including the importance of tracking approach behaviors, avoidance, and other signals of a child's readiness. Finally, we consider the sustainability of pairing procedures over time and potential directions for future research, including investigating methods of instructional fading and tracking gestural communication development in children with autism. Resources Mentioned * Shillingsburg, et al. (2019) [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29338313/]. Rapport Building and Instructional Fading Prior to Discrete Trial Instruction: Moving From Child-Led Play to Intensive Teaching * Cariveau, et al. (2020) [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10864-019-09340-x]. A Structured Intervention to Increase Response Allocation to Instructional Settings for Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder * Shillingsburg, et al. (2014) [https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2014-41963-004]. Increasing social approach and decreasing social avoidance in children with autism spectrum disorder during discrete trial training Sponsor Shoutouts * The School Behavioral Solutions for Special Educators & Behavior Analysts. The Behavior Toolbox Conference [https://behaviorlive.com/conferences/Thebxtoolbox/home] is a one-day, high-impact professional convening that brings together experienced practitioners and leaders from across education and behavior science to share what actually works in schools. It's taking place virtually through BehaviorLive on March 5th, 2026, and will be available on-demand for those who can't make it on the day of the event. * CEUs from Behavioral Observations [https://behavioralobservations.com/get-ceus]. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here [https://behavioralobservations.com/get-ceus]. * The 2026 Verbal Behavior Conference! [https://behaviorlive.com/conferences/vbc/home] Taking place March 26–27, 2026, in Austin, Texas, or livestream and on-demand on BehaviorLive. Presenters will include Drs. Mark Sundberg, Patrick McGreevy, Caio Miguel, Alice Shillingsburg, Sarah Frampton, Andresa De Souza, and Danielle LaFrance will share how Skinner's analysis of verbal behavior can guide the assessment and treatment of generative learning challenges in children with autism and other developmental disabilities. And don't miss the special pre-conference workshop on Wednesday, March 25.