Conversations with Tyler

Luke Burgis on Mimetic Desire, Catholicism, and the Age of Social Contagion

Luke Burgis left Wall Street after two years, founded a few successful companies in his twenties, then walked away to spend three years in a Roman seminary on the path to the priesthood. He now runs the Cluny Institute and teaches at Catholic University. His book Wanting made René Girard legible to a general audience; the new one, The One and the Ninety-Nine, takes mimetic theory into the dynamics of self and crowd in an age of social contagion. He joined Tyler to discuss whether the age of pessimism is ending, why the Anglo world in particular seems so unhappy, whether Dostoevsky or Thomas Mann better diagnoses modernity, the kind of reader his own book would ruin, why he thinks AI will make social contagion weaker, what put him off consulting with Anthropic on Claude's constitution, what effective altruism misses, why men and women are drifting apart, what he'd fund in every American city, the case for reintroducing friction, whether a Gnostic reading of the lost sheep explains our moment, what Rod Dreher gets right about withdrawal, why Genoa is Italy's most underrated city, what confession times reveal about a church, why Italians seem tired of their Catholicism, why he didn't become a priest, where he differs from Ross Douthat, why exorcists appear to be on the rise, the sudden mimetic antisemitism on the right, the book his 23-year-old self would have hated, what he secretly admires about Silicon Valley, why Michigan never left him, what the original Cluny can teach a modern talent network, how he hopes to face his own death, what he'll do next, and more. Read a transcript [https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/luke-burgis/] enhanced with helpful links, or watch the full video [https://youtu.be/UsBV0DCoDCA] on YouTube. Recorded April 30th, 2026. Other ways to connect * Follow us on X [https://x.com/cowenconvos] and Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/cowenconvos/?hl=en] * Follow Tyler [https://x.com/tylercowen] on X * Follow Luke [https://x.com/lukeburgis] on X * Sign up for our newsletter [https://mercatus.tfaforms.net/5060931] * Join our Discord [https://discord.com/invite/JAVWP7vTxt] * Email us: cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu [cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu] * Learn more about Conversations with Tyler and other Mercatus Center podcasts here [https://www.mercatus.org/podcasts]. Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:05:08 - On overapplying mimetic theory 00:06:35 - On AI and social contagion 00:07:53 - On declining Anthropic's invitation 00:09:36 - On the widening gap between men and women 00:12:25 - On anti-mimetic postures, jazz, and porn 00:16:46 - On Genoa, Naples, and societal escape fantasies 00:18:31 - On Italian Catholicism 00:26:59 - On not becoming a priest 00:29:13 - On beauty, enchantment, and the Gnostic sheep 00:40:22 - On what Wall Street taught him 00:43:50 - On Michigan 00:45:12 - On the Cluny Institute 00:48:41 - On dealing with death and what else is next 00:51:21 - Outro Image credit: Kirth Bobb

Daron Acemoglu on Liberalism, Automation, and the Educated Elite

Daron Acemoglu returns for his second appearance with a new book, What Happened to Liberal Democracy?, which Tyler reads as an attempt to redefine and revitalize liberalism for our times. Where Daron's first visit was about how states and societies contend for the narrow corridor in which liberty survives, this one asks what liberals themselves got wrong, and the answer implicates the educated elite—that is to say, you. Tyler and Daron discuss what's wrong with social contract theories and Rousseau's general will, whether Acemoglu is more objectivist than Rorty, why he blames left liberalism's own establishment power for its collapse, what standard is left once you refuse to have a book of higher values, nondomination versus noninterference, who counts as working class, why automation alone will not lead to widespread prosperity, how he can call himself a free speech absolutist while wanting to regulate social media, why he worries we've given up on educating Americans, whether teachers' unions need to be reconstituted, what the life expectancy for an educated twenty year old is today, whether open-source models undercut the centralization worry, what pro-worker AI actually means, why the fertility crisis leaves him strangely close to a real business cycle position, whether AI will raise his own already prodigious paper output, why Armenia has disappointed economically, what he wants to learn next, and more. Read a transcript [https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/daron-acemoglu-2/] enhanced with helpful links, or watch the full video [https://youtu.be/e5O1Y-5phEU] on YouTube. Recorded July 15th, 2026. Other ways to connect * Follow us on X [https://x.com/cowenconvos] and Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/cowenconvos/?hl=en] * Follow Tyler [https://x.com/tylercowen] on X * Follow Daron [https://x.com/DAcemogluMIT] on X * Sign up for our newsletter [https://mercatus.tfaforms.net/5060931] * Join our Discord [https://discord.com/invite/JAVWP7vTxt] * Email us: cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu [cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu] * Learn more about Conversations with Tyler and other Mercatus Center podcasts here [https://www.mercatus.org/podcasts]. Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:08:57 - On the working class vs. the elite 00:13:16 - On automation 00:22:33 - On free speech 00:27:22 - On immigration 00:31:08 - On artificial intelligence 00:50:36 - On Armenia 00:53:22 - On what comes next 00:54:51 - Outro Image credit: Bryce Vickmark

Julia Ioffe on Russian Women, Missing Men, and the Roots of Autocracy

Julia Ioffe left the USSR as a child and came back as an adult journalist to find that the confident, credentialed women she remembered from her Soviet childhood had largely been supplanted by those chasing marriage and domesticity instead. That disorienting reversal is the engine of her book Motherland, a National Book Award finalist that reconstructs modern Russian history almost entirely through its women. Her account, drawn from her own family's history as well as the archives, keeps returning to one plain observation: Soviet policy pushed women into the workforce, the medical schools, and even into combat, while asking so little of men that low expectations became self-fulfilling—and Russia is still living with the results. Julia joined Tyler to discuss why so many of Russia's great constructivist painters were women, why the tsarist government established women's medical courses in 1872, changing attitudes towards abortion and birth control in the 20th century, why the Soviet regime turned prudish, how Khrushchev's plan to "replace the dead" institutionalized single motherhood, Russian superwomen, why Jewish men were a prized commodity amid rampant antisemitism, the cultural significance of flowers, why a few Russian names still dominate, why Russian women think Western feminists have their priorities backwards, how gender attitudes and autocracy feed into each other, three underrated Russian novels, what she wants to write about next, and more. Read a full transcript [https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/julia-ioffe/] enhanced with helpful links, or watch the full video [https://youtu.be/CPodf-NVirM] on YouTube. Recorded April 7th, 2026. Other ways to connect * Follow us on X [https://twitter.com/cowenconvos] and Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/cowenconvos/?hl=en] * Follow Tyler [https://twitter.com/tylercowen] on X * Follow Julia [https://x.com/juliaioffe] on X * Sign up for our newsletter [https://mercatus.tfaforms.net/5060931] * Join our Discord [https://discord.gg/JAVWP7vTxt] * Email us: cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu [cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu] * Learn more about Conversations with Tyler and other Mercatus Center podcasts here [https://www.mercatus.org/podcasts]. Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:06:38 - Bolshevik feminism 00:08:41 - Birth control, abortion, and prudery 00:14:48 - The Russian mating market 00:23:06 - Russian superwomen 00:32:02 - The importance of flowers 00:37:35 - Common Russian names 00:39:51 - Russian vs. American feminism 00:44:23 - Gender attitudes and Russian politics 00:49:54 - Russian novels 00:54:33 - Outro Photo credit: Max Avdeev

Andrew Graham-Dixon on Vermeer, a Forgotten Sect, and Underrated Artists

Andrew Graham-Dixon's new book, Vermeer: A Life Lost and Found, rests on the conviction that you cannot understand what's in a painting without knowing what its maker was thinking about. In Vermeer's case, that context includes a forgotten liberal sect — the Remonstrants and Collegiants, Christians without a church who believed peace would come through reading and toleration rather than a returning Messiah. Recover that world and a woman alone in a sunlit room is a radical image in a Europe where half of Germany had just died in war. If he's right, the label beside every Vermeer in every museum will one day have to change. Tyler and Andrew discuss whether it was inevitable we'd rediscover Vermeer, how that vanishingly rare sect left its fingerprints all over his life, why the Met has misread its own Allegory of the Catholic Faith, whether Vermeer painted for money or pointedly refused to, where the Gardner's stolen Concert might be, why Dutch music never blossomed as much as Dutch painting did, how the Church of England rivaled the Cultural Revolution in wiping out British art, whether you can still spot an English painting on sight, the love that saturates late Rembrandt and the mystery of his soaring print prices, the nail on the wall that proves two Vermeer paintings are a pair, why the French are to blame for George Stubbs' lack of status, whether we can still love Malevich, why Andrews calls recent Richter "almost like printing money," why female artists and antique textiles remain absurdly cheap, why nobody builds beautiful neighborhoods any longer, and much more. Read a full transcript [https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/andrew-graham-dixon/] enhanced with helpful links, or watch the full video [https://youtu.be/PKgD52syF3E] on the new dedicated Conversations with Tyler channel. Recorded April 7th, 2026. Other ways to connect * Follow us on X [https://twitter.com/cowenconvos] and Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/cowenconvos/?hl=en] * Follow Tyler [https://twitter.com/tylercowen] on X * Follow Andrew [https://x.com/AndrewGrahamDix] on X * Sign up for our newsletter [https://mercatus.tfaforms.net/5060931] * Join our Discord [https://discord.gg/JAVWP7vTxt] * Email us: cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu [cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu] * Learn more about Conversations with Tyler and other Mercatus Center podcasts here [https://www.mercatus.org/podcasts]. Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:00:44 - The Mystery of Vermeer 00:12:53 - Dutch Music 00:15:51 - English Art 00:19:49 - Rembrandt 00:23:17 - Attributions 00:26:22 - Exhibitions and Restorations 00:30:05 - Underrated French Artists 00:35:16 - Howard Hodgkin 00:38:00 - Difficult-To-Love Artists 00:40:53 - Other Dutch Painters 00:44:20 - Contemporary Art 00:48:05 - Buying Art 00:50:39 - Neighborhood Aesthetics 00:54:39 - Advice for Aspiring Art Critics 00:56:14 - Outro Image Credit: Aliona Adrianova

Chase Koch on Principles, Music, and Overcoming Entropy

Chase Koch grew up receiving Sunday philosophy lessons from his father Charles and, by his own account, spent most of them half asleep while his sister supplied the answers. The principles didn't land until he lived them: throwing tennis matches as a bored teenager, getting shipped off to shovel manure at a feed yard twelve hours later, then spending five years battling Brazilian bureaucracy to build a fertilizer terminal that should have taken one. Today he is Executive Vice President of Origination and Partnerships, leader and donor to Stand Together, plays lead guitar in a band named for the law of entropy, and has a new book with his father on principle-driven leadership. Chase and Tyler discuss if any of his father's lessons never stuck, the guilt-trip letter his grandfather wrote three months after Charles was born, why Chase started throwing tennis matches, what Rafa's grit taught him about stoicism, who he admired most from the 1992 Dream Team, whether the Spurs should jettison De'Aaron Fox, the David Gilmour solo that hooked him at eleven, what drew him to jam bands, how he built a boom-box business out of his parents' garage, why his father interviewed Snoop on a Zoom call during Covid, why his band is named for the second law of thermodynamics, what it's like working with MrBeast, how Koch Inc has evolved, what he learned from Marc Andreessen, the philosophy behind hiring the "farm team," why he is teaching himself to code with Claude at his fourteen-year-old's urging, where he's traveling next, and much more. Read a full transcript [https://conversationswithtyler.com/episodes/chase-koch/] enhanced with helpful links, or watch the full video [https://youtu.be/jMR08XbWOgw] on the new dedicated Conversations with Tyler channel. Recorded June 16th, 2026. Other ways to connect * Follow us on X [https://twitter.com/cowenconvos] and Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/cowenconvos/?hl=en] * Follow Tyler [https://twitter.com/tylercowen] on X * Sign up for our newsletter [https://mercatus.tfaforms.net/5060931] * Join our Discord [https://discord.gg/JAVWP7vTxt] * Email us: cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu [cowenconvos@mercatus.gmu.edu] * Learn more about Conversations with Tyler and other Mercatus Center podcasts here [https://www.mercatus.org/podcasts]. Timestamps: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:00:56 - Familial Influences 00:08:25 - Tennis and Basketball 00:15:00 - The Music Industry 00:28:36 - MrBeast 00:31:24 - The Evolution of Koch Industries 00:35:54 - The Midwest 00:44:37 - AI 00:49:01 - Politics 00:53:35 - Outro