Decoder with Nilay Patel

Rivian's software chief thinks you don't need CarPlay or buttons

Today, I’m talking with Wassym Bensaid, the chief software officer at Rivian, and the co-ceo of Rivian’s platform joint venture with Volkswagen. That joint venture, called RV Tech, is about a year and a half old, so I wanted to ask Wassym how it all works and Rivian’s ongoing relationship with Volkswagen.  Because it’s Rivian, I also had to ask Wassym about CarPlay. But the company also just launched an AI-powered voice assistant, which I got to try early. So I had a lot of fun digging into that with Wassym, too. This is a fun one – really in the weeds of a lot of my favorite things to talk about. Links:  * Rivian’s AI-powered voice assistant is ready to roll | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/transportation/928651/rivian-ai-voice-assistant-r1-r2] * The R2 is nearly here — can Rivian stick the landing? | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/transportation/893953/rivian-r2-tesla-model-y-specs-compare] * Rivian’s AI pivot is about more than chasing Tesla | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/transportation/846783/rivian-ai-autonomy-day-self-driving-lidar-chip-tesla] * Rivian / VW will start testing their first EVs next year | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/transportation/819939/rivian-and-volkswagen-will-start-testing-their-first-evs-next-year] * Rivian CEO: ‘We’re really convicted’ about skipping CarPlay | Decoder (2025) [https://www.theverge.com/podcast/790685/rivian-ceo-rj-scaringe-r2-tariffs-china-ev-apple-carplay] * Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe says too many carmakers are copying Tesla | Decoder (2024) [https://www.theverge.com/24201749/rivian-ceo-rj-scaringe-ev-electric-truck-r1-tesla-model-y-competition-decoder-interview] * Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe isn't scared of the Cybertruck | Decoder (2023) [https://www.theverge.com/23908667/rivian-rj-scaringe-r1t-electric-truck-interview-decoder] * Rivian’s chief software officer says in-car buttons are ‘an anomaly’ | TechCrunch [https://techcrunch.com/2024/10/30/rivians-chief-software-officer-says-in-car-buttons-are-an-anomaly/] Subscribe to The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/subscribe] to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt,. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

How Sundar Pichai is rethinking Google for the AI era

Connecting with Google CEO Sundar Pichai at I/O every year is one of my favorite Decoder traditions. This was our fifth year doing it, and there’s always a whole slew of new things to talk about. This year, in addition to the news, we talked about Google Zero; picking fights with YouTube creators and publishers; and what being at “the foothills of the singularity" even means. Read the full interview transcript on The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/podcast/936445/sundar-pichai-ai-search-google-zero-youtube-web]. Links: * If Google can’t make AI agents useful, maybe no one can | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/934478/if-google-cant-make-ai-agents-useful-maybe-no-one-can] * The future of Google is a search box that does everything | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/tech/934217/google-search-box-does-everything-ai-io-2026] * Large language mistake | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/827820/large-language-models-ai-intelligence-neuroscience-problems] * You can now remix other people’s YouTube Shorts with AI | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/tech/934704/google-gemini-omni-youtub-shorts-remix-ai] * Condé Nast calls Google Zero | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/google/929641/conde-nast-calls-google-zero] * Demis Hassabis said this may be the ‘foothills of the singularity’ | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/tech/934260/google-io-ai-singularity-demis-hassabis] * Google I/O 2026: All the news and announcements | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/tech/932454/google-io-2026-news-announcements] Subscribe to The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/subscribe] to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Kabir Chopra. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Musk v Altman: Much ado about nothing

Musk v Altman was nominally about OpenAI's conversion to a for-profit entity, and how it went about that change. But really, the suit seems mostly to have been about Elon Musk being mad at Sam Altman — or at OpenAI, for being successful without him — and wanting him punished in some way. Verge reporter Liz Lopatto spent the last month covering the trial, in all its chaos, and joins Decoder to ask: In a courtroom full of untrustworthy, unreliable people all fighting with each other, did anyone even have a reputation left to lose? Read the full interview transcript on The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/podcast/934869/elon-musk-sam-altman-openai-suit-loss-pointless]. Links:  * Elon Musk loses his case against Sam Altman | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/932383/jury-verdict-musk-v-altman-openai-trial] * Musk v. Altman proved AI is led by the wrong people | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/932464/musk-v-altman-proved-that-ai-is-led-by-the-wrong-people] * Musk v. Altman accomplished nothing but airing dirty laundry | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/931006/musk-v-altman-closing-arguments-analysis] * Elon Musk’s worst enemy in court is Elon Musk | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/tech/921022/elon-musk-cross-openai-altman] * Behold, the Elon Musk jackass trophy | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/930893/elon-musk-sam-altman-trial-ai-safety-jackass-statue] Subscribe to The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/subscribe] to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Exclusive: Jonah Peretti explains why he sold BuzzFeed

Just days before we spoke, BuzzFeed co-founder and CEO Jonah Peretti agreed to sell the company, which was losing money and at risk of shutting down. Now there’s a new lease on life — and new leadership. Jonah is taking on a new role as president of BuzzFeed AI, and Byron Allen will become CEO of BuzzFeed.  That’s obviously a huge structural and organizational change, and a really big decision — prime Decoder bait if there ever was any. What are digital media companies doing to adapt and survive in an information landscape dominated by algorithmic social platforms? Read the full interview transcript on The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/podcast/932154/peretti-allen-buzzfeed-ai-slop-social-media]. Links:  * Byron Allen is buying BuzzFeed and becoming CEO | Variety [https://variety.com/2026/digital/news/byron-allen-buying-buzzfeed-ceo-1236745206/] * BuzzFeed issues going concern warning, lacks liquidity | Wall Street Journal [https://www.wsj.com/business/c-suite/buzzfeed-issues-going-concern-warning-lacks-liquidity-for-coming-year-d5d0c2ef] * BuzzFeed News is shutting down | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/20/23691169/buzzfeed-news-shut-down-jonah-peretti-memo] * BuzzFeed sells Hot Ones studio in $82.5M deal | NBC News [https://www.nbcnews.com/business/buzzfeed-sells-hot-ones-studio-first-we-feast-rcna183956] * The unbearable lightness of BuzzFeed | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/23450270/buzzfeed-social-media-aggregation-news-digital-media] * I hate myself because I don’t work for BuzzFeed (2015) | The Awl [https://www.theawl.com/2015/03/i-hate-myself-because-i-dont-work-for-buzzfeed/?ref=typebarmagazine.com] Subscribe to The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/subscribe] to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt; this episode was edited by Kabir Chopra. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

How companies weaponize the terms of service against you

Brendan Ballou is founder of the Public Integrity Project and author of the new book,  When Companies Run the Courts, about the rise of forced arbitration. Forced arbitration is similarly everywhere in modern life, and there have been some very high-profile cases these past few years highlighting how deeply unfair these clauses are to consumers. Brendan’s book delves into how and why we got here — spoiler: we can blame Antonin Scalia for some of it — but also, most importantly, how we may be able to fight back in the future. Read the full interview transcript on The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/podcast/930342/brendan-ballou-companies-courts-forced-arbitration-lawsuits-scalia]. Links:  * When Companies Run the Courts | Hachette [https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/brendan-ballou/when-companies-run-the-courts/9781541705715/?lens=publicaffairs] * Private equity bought out your doctor and bankrupted Toys ‘R Us | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/23758492/private-equity-brendan-ballou-plunder-finance-doj] * Press freedom groups demand access to Paramount records | The Wrap [https://www.thewrap.com/media-platforms/journalism/press-freedom-groups-call-for-paramount-records-ellisons-trump/] * Disney gives up on trying to use Disney+ to settle wrongful death suit | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/20/24224277/disney-wrongful-death-lawsuit-waiving-arbitration] * Samsung, corruption, and you (2017) | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/9/14867124/samsung-bribery-corruption-trial-chairman-lee-jae-yong] * The surprising case for AI judges | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/podcast/877299/ai-arbitrator-bridget-mccormack-aaa-arbitration-interview] Subscribe to The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/subscribe] to access the ad-free version of Decode Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]