Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

Dhanji R. Prasanna is the chief technology officer at Block (formerly Square), where he’s managed more than 4,000 engineers over the past two years. Under his leadership, Block has become one of the most AI-native large companies in the world. Before becoming CTO, Dhanji wrote an “AI manifesto” to CEO Jack Dorsey that sparked a company-wide transformation (and his promotion to CTO). We discuss: 1. How Block’s internal open-source agent, called Goose, is saving employees 8 to 10 hours weekly 2. How the company measures AI productivity gains across technical and non-technical teams 3. Which teams are benefiting most from AI (it’s not engineering) 4. The boring organizational change that boosted productivity even more than AI tools 5. Why code quality has almost nothing to do with product success 6. How to drive AI adoption throughout an organization (hint: leadership needs to use the tools daily) 7. Lessons from building Google Wave, Google+, and other failed products — Brought to you by: Sinch [https://sinch.com/lenny]—Build messaging, email, and calling into your product: https://sinch.com/lenny [https://sinch.com/lenny] Figma Make [https://www.figma.com/lenny/]—A prompt-to-code tool for making ideas real: https://www.figma.com/lenny/ [https://www.figma.com/lenny/] Persona [https://withpersona.com/lenny]—A global leader in digital identity verification: https://withpersona.com/lenny [https://withpersona.com/lenny] — Where to find Dhanji R. Prasanna: • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dhanji/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dhanji/] — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com] • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan [https://twitter.com/lennysan] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/] — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Dhanji (05:26) The AI manifesto: convincing Jack Dorsey (07:33) Transforming into a more AI-native company (12:05) How engineering teams work differently today (15:24) Goose: Block’s open-source AI agent (20:18) Measuring AI productivity gains across teams (21:38) What Goose is and how it works (32:15) The future of AI in engineering and productivity (37:42) The importance of human taste (40:10) Building vs. buying software (44:08) How AI is changing hiring and team structure (53:45) The importance of using AI tools yourself before deploying them (55:13) How Goose helped solve a personal problem with receipts (58:01) What makes Goose unique (59:57) What Dhanji wishes he knew before becoming CTO (01:01:49) Counterintuitive lessons in product development (01:04:56) Why controlled chaos can be good for engineering teams (01:08:07) Core leadership lessons (01:13:36) Failure corner (01:15:50) Lightning round and final thoughts — Referenced: • Jack Dorsey on X: https://x.com/jack [https://x.com/jack] • Block: https://block.xyz/ [https://block.xyz/] • Square: https://squareup.com/ [https://squareup.com/] • Cash App: https://cash.app/ [https://cash.app/] • What is Conway’s Law?: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365-life-hacks/organization/what-is-conways-law# [https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365-life-hacks/organization/what-is-conways-law#] • Goose: https://github.com/block/goose [https://github.com/block/goose] • Gosling: https://github.com/block/goose-mobile [https://github.com/block/goose-mobile] • Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/ [https://www.salesforce.com/] • Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com/ [https://www.snowflake.com/] • Claude: https://claude.ai/ [https://claude.ai/] • Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropic-co-founder-benjamin-mann [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropic-co-founder-benjamin-mann] • OpenAI: https://openai.com/ [https://openai.com/] • OpenAI’s CPO on how AI changes must-have skills, moats, coding, startup playbooks, more | Kevin Weil (CPO at OpenAI, ex-Instagram, Twitter): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai] • Llama: https://www.llama.com/ [https://www.llama.com/] • Cursor: https://cursor.com/ [https://cursor.com/] • The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell] • Top Gun: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092099/ [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092099/] • Lenny’s vibe-coded Lovable app: https://gdoc-images-grab.lovable.app/ [https://gdoc-images-grab.lovable.app/] • Afterpay: https://github.com/afterpay [https://github.com/afterpay] • Bitkey: https://bitkey.world/ [https://bitkey.world/] • Proto: https://github.com/proto-at-block [https://github.com/proto-at-block] • Brad Axen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradleyaxen/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradleyaxen/] • Databricks: https://www.databricks.com/ [https://www.databricks.com/] • Carl Sagan’s quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/32952-if-you-wish-to-make-an-apple-pie-from-scratch [https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/32952-if-you-wish-to-make-an-apple-pie-from-scratch] • Google Wave: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Wave [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Wave] • Google Video: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Video [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Video] • Secret: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_(app) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_(app)] • Alien Earth on FX: https://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/alien-earth [https://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/alien-earth] • Slow Horses on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/slow-horses/umc.cmc.2szz3fdt71tl1ulnbp8utgq5o [https://tv.apple.com/us/show/slow-horses/umc.cmc.2szz3fdt71tl1ulnbp8utgq5o] • Fargo TV series on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Fargo-Season-1/dp/B09QGRGH6M [https://www.amazon.com/Fargo-Season-1/dp/B09QGRGH6M] • Steam Deck OLED display: https://www.steamdeck.com/en/oled [https://www.steamdeck.com/en/oled] • Doc Brown: https://backtothefuture.fandom.com/wiki/Emmett_Brown [https://backtothefuture.fandom.com/wiki/Emmett_Brown] — Recommended books: • The Master and Margarita: https://www.amazon.com/Master-Margarita-Mikhail-Bulgakov/dp/0802130119 [https://www.amazon.com/Master-Margarita-Mikhail-Bulgakov/dp/0802130119] • Tennyson Poems: https://www.amazon.com/Tennyson-Poems-Everymans-Library-Pocket/dp/1400041872/ [https://www.amazon.com/Tennyson-Poems-Everymans-Library-Pocket/dp/1400041872/r] — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ [https://penname.co/]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com [podcast@lennyrachitsky.com]. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=show-notes-no-free-preview-language]

Chip Huyen is a core developer on Nvidia’s Nemo platform, a former AI researcher at Netflix, and taught machine learning at Stanford. She’s a two-time founder and the author of two widely read books on AI, including AI Engineering, which has been the most-read book on the O’Reilly platform since its launch. Unlike many AI commentators, Chip has built multiple successful AI products and platforms and works directly with enterprises on their AI strategies, giving her unique visibility into what’s actually happening inside companies building AI products. We discuss: 1. What people think makes AI apps better vs. what actually makes AI apps better 2. What pre-training vs. post-training is, and why fine-tuning should be your last resort 3. How RLHF (reinforcement learning from human feedback) actually works 4. Why data quality matters more than which vector database you choose 5. Why high performers are seeing the most gains from AI coding tools 6. Why most AI problems are actually UX issues — Brought to you by: Dscout [https://www.dscout.com/]—The UX platform to capture insights at every stage: from ideation to production: https://www.dscout.com/ [https://www.dscout.com/] Justworks [https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/trackclk/N9515.5688857LENNYSPODCAST/B33689522.423713855;dc_trk_aid=616485030;dc_trk_cid=237010502;dc_lat=;dc_rdid=;tag_for_child_directed_treatment=;tfua=;gdpr=${GDPR};gdpr_consent=${GDPR_CONSENT_755};ltd=;dc_tdv=1]—The all-in-one HR solution for managing your small business with confidence: https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/trackclk/N9515.5688857LENNYSPODCAST/B33689522.423713855;dc_trk_aid=616485030;dc_trk_cid=237010502;dc_lat=;dc_rdid=;tag_for_child_directed_treatment=;tfua=;gdpr=$ [https://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/trackclk/N9515.5688857LENNYSPODCAST/B33689522.423713855;dc_trk_aid=616485030;dc_trk_cid=237010502;dc_lat=;dc_rdid=;tag_for_child_directed_treatment=;tfua=;gdpr=$] Persona [https://withpersona.com/lenny]—A global leader in digital identity verification: https://withpersona.com/lenny [https://withpersona.com/lenny] — Where to find Chip Huyen: • X: https://x.com/chipro [https://x.com/chipro] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chiphuyen/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/chiphuyen/] • Website: https://huyenchip.com/ [https://huyenchip.com/] • Substack: https://substack.com/@chiphuyen [https://substack.com/@chiphuyen] — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com] • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan [https://twitter.com/lennysan] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/] — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Chip Huyen (04:28) Chip’s viral LinkedIn post (07:05) Understanding AI training: pre-training vs. post-training (08:50) Language modeling explained (13:55) The importance of post-training (15:20) Reinforcement learning and human feedback (22:23) The importance of evals in AI development (31:55) Retrieval augmented generation (RAG) explained (38:50) Challenges in AI tool adoption (43:19) Challenges in measuring productivity (45:20) The three-bucket test (49:10) The future of engineering roles (55:31) ML Engineers vs. AI engineers (57:12) Looking forward: the impact of AI (01:05:48) Model capabilities vs. perceived performance (01:08:23) Lightning round and final thoughts — Referenced: • Chip’s LinkedIn post on what actually improves AI apps: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/chiphuyen_aiapplications-aiengineering-activity-7358971409227792384-y0mf/ [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/chiphuyen_aiapplications-aiengineering-activity-7358971409227792384-y0mf/] • Prediction and Entropy of Printed English: https://www.princeton.edu/~wbialek/rome/refs/shannon_51.pdf [https://www.princeton.edu/~wbialek/rome/refs/shannon_51.pdf] • Why experts writing AI evals is creating the fastest-growing companies in history | Brendan Foody (CEO of Mercor): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/experts-writing-ai-evals-brendan-foody [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/experts-writing-ai-evals-brendan-foody] •Inside the expert network training every frontier AI model | Garrett Lord (Handshake CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-handshake-garrett-lord [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-handshake-garrett-lord] • First interview with Scale AI’s CEO: $14B Meta deal, what’s working in enterprise AI, and what frontier labs are building next | Jason Droege: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/first-interview-with-scale-ais-ceo-jason-droege [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/first-interview-with-scale-ais-ceo-jason-droege] • Anthropic’s CPO on what comes next | Mike Krieger (co-founder of Instagram): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropics-cpo-heres-what-comes-next [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropics-cpo-heres-what-comes-next] • Why AI evals are the hottest new skill for product builders | Hamel Husain & Shreya Shankar (creators of the #1 eval course): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-ai-evals-are-the-hottest-new-skill [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-ai-evals-are-the-hottest-new-skill] • The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell] • Stanford webinar—How AI Is Changing Coding and Education, Andrew Ng & Mehran Sahami: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J91_npj0Nfw [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J91_npj0Nfw] • He saved OpenAI, invented the “Like” button, and built Google Maps: Bret Taylor on the future of careers, coding, agents, and more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/he-saved-openai-bret-taylor [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/he-saved-openai-bret-taylor] • Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropic-co-founder-benjamin-mann [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropic-co-founder-benjamin-mann] • Lenny’s vibe-coded app made on Lovable: https://gdoc-images-grab.lovable.app/ [https://gdoc-images-grab.lovable.app/] • Story of Yanxi Palace: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8865016/ [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8865016/] • Steve Jobs’s quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/427317-remembering-that-i-ll-be-dead-soon-is-the-most-important [https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/427317-remembering-that-i-ll-be-dead-soon-is-the-most-important] — Recommended books: • The Complete Sherlock Holmes: https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Sherlock-Holmes-Volumes/dp/0553328255 [https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Sherlock-Holmes-Volumes/dp/0553328255] • AI Engineering: Building Applications with Foundation Models: https://www.amazon.com/AI-Engineering-Building-Applications-Foundation/dp/1098166302 [https://www.amazon.com/AI-Engineering-Building-Applications-Foundation/dp/1098166302] • The Selfish Gene: https://www.amazon.com/Selfish-Gene-Anniversary-Introduction/dp/0199291152 [https://www.amazon.com/Selfish-Gene-Anniversary-Introduction/dp/0199291152] • From Third World to First: The Singapore Story: 1965-2000: https://www.amazon.com/Third-World-First-Singapore-1965-2000/dp/0060197765 [https://www.amazon.com/Third-World-First-Singapore-1965-2000/dp/0060197765] — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ [https://penname.co/]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com [podcast@lennyrachitsky.com]. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=show-notes-no-free-preview-language]

Nicole Forsgren created the most widely used frameworks for measuring developer productivity—DORA and SPACE. She wrote the foundational book Accelerate and is about to release her newest book, Frictionless, a practical guide for helping teams move faster in the AI era. She’s currently Senior Director of Developer Intelligence at Google. We discuss: 1. Why most productivity metrics are a lie 2. Signs that your engineering team could be moving much faster 3. Why AI accelerates coding but developers aren’t speeding up as much as you think 4. AI’s impact on engineers getting into “flow” 5. Her framework for building and scaling a developer experience team 6. The three components of developer experience: flow state, cognitive load, and feedback loops — Brought to you by: Mercury [https://mercury.com/]—The art of simplified finances: https://mercury.com/ [https://mercury.com/] WorkOS [https://workos.com/lenny]—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs: https://workos.com/lenny [https://workos.com/lenny] Coda [https://coda.io/lenny]—The all-in-one collaborative workspace: https://coda.io/lenny [https://coda.io/lenny] — Where to find Nicole Forsgren: • Twitter: https://twitter.com/nicolefv [https://twitter.com/nicolefv] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolefv/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolefv/] • Website: https://nicolefv.com/ [https://nicolefv.com/] — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com] • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan [https://twitter.com/lennysan] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/] — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Nicole Forsgren (05:09) The concept of developer experience (DevEx) (08:33) Flow state and cognitive load in the age of AI (12:02) Challenges in measuring productivity with AI (21:19) The importance of developer experience for business value (22:20) Common issues and solutions in developer experience (26:49) Signs your eng team is moving too slow (29:52) How AI is improving productivity (33:32) Real examples of productivity improvements (36:35) Introducing her new book, Frictionless (43:40) How to get started building a DevEx team (45:15) The impact of forming developer experience teams (46:15)  How to measure the impact of DevEx teams (48:53) Measuring the impact of AI tools on productivity (55:16) Survey design for developer experience (57:59) Popular AI tools for developers (59:08) Bringing a product mindset to DevEx improvements (01:00:40) AI corner (01:02:33) Lightning round and final thoughts — Referenced: • How to measure and improve developer productivity | Nicole Forsgren (Microsoft Research, GitHub, Google): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-measure-and-improve-developer [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-measure-and-improve-developer] • DORA: https://dora.dev/ [https://dora.dev/] • The SPACE framework: A comprehensive guide to developer productivity: https://getdx.com/blog/space-metrics/ [https://getdx.com/blog/space-metrics/] • Measuring developer productivity with the DX Core 4: https://getdx.com/research/measuring-developer-productivity-with-the-dx-core-4/ [https://getdx.com/research/measuring-developer-productivity-with-the-dx-core-4/] • Gloria Mark’s website: https://gloriamark.com/ [https://gloriamark.com/] • Taking Flight with Copilot: https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3589996 [https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3589996] • DevEx in Action: https://spawn-queue.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3639443 [https://spawn-queue.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3639443] • CodeX: https://openai.com/codex/ [https://openai.com/codex/] • Devin: https://devin.ai/ [https://devin.ai/] • Abi Noda on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/abinoda/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/abinoda/] • DX is joining Atlassian: https://getdx.com/blog/dx-is-joining-atlassian/ [https://getdx.com/blog/dx-is-joining-atlassian/] • GitHub Copilot: https://github.com/features/copilot [https://github.com/features/copilot] • Cursor: https://cursor.com/ [https://cursor.com/] • The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell] • Gemini Code Assist: https://codeassist.google/ [https://codeassist.google/] • Claude Code: https://www.claude.com/product/claude-code [https://www.claude.com/product/claude-code] • The AI-native startup: 5 products, 7-figure revenue, 100% AI-written code | Dan Shipper (co-founder/CEO of Every): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-every-dan-shipper [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-every-dan-shipper] • Love Is Blind on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80996601 [https://www.netflix.com/title/80996601] • Shrinking on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/shrinking/umc.cmc.apzybj6eqf6pzccd97kev7bs [https://tv.apple.com/us/show/shrinking/umc.cmc.apzybj6eqf6pzccd97kev7bs] • Ninja Creami: https://www.amazon.com/Ninja-NC301-CREAMi-Containers-Bundle/dp/B0BLGR5JPV/ [https://www.amazon.com/Ninja-NC301-CREAMi-Containers-Bundle/dp/B0BLGR5JPV/] • Jura coffee maker: https://www.amazon.com/Jura-Nordic-Automatic-Coffee-Machine/dp/B0CF65BFZ1/ [https://www.amazon.com/Jura-Nordic-Automatic-Coffee-Machine/dp/B0CF65BFZ1/] — Recommended books: • Frictionless: https://developerexperiencebook.com/ [https://developerexperiencebook.com/] • DevEx Workbook: https://developerexperiencebook.com/#workbook [https://developerexperiencebook.com/#workbook] • Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity: https://www.amazon.com/Outlive-Longevity-Peter-Attia-MD/dp/0593236599 [https://www.amazon.com/Outlive-Longevity-Peter-Attia-MD/dp/0593236599] • Back Mechanic: https://www.amazon.com/Back-Mechanic-Stuart-McGill-2015-09-30/dp/B01FKSGJYC [https://www.amazon.com/Back-Mechanic-Stuart-McGill-2015-09-30/dp/B01FKSGJYC] • How Big Things Get Done: The Surprising Factors That Determine the Fate of Every Project, from Home Renovations to Space Exploration and Everything in Between: https://www.amazon.com/How-Big-Things-Get-Done/dp/0593239512/ [https://www.amazon.com/How-Big-Things-Get-Done/dp/0593239512/] • The Undoing Project: A Friendship That Changed Our Minds: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KBM82M4/ [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01KBM82M4/] — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ [https://penname.co/]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com [podcast@lennyrachitsky.com]. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=show-notes-no-free-preview-language]

Dylan Field is co-founder and CEO of Figma, a beloved tool used by every modern product team. Founded in 2012, Figma has expanded from a single design tool to a comprehensive platform including FigJam, Slides, Dev Mode, and, most recently, Figma Make. After a $20 billion acquisition by Adobe fell through due to regulatory pushback, Dylan led the company to a successful IPO in 2025. What you’ll learn: • How Dylan kept internal morale up after the Adobe acquisition fell through • His approach to maintaining pace and a sense of urgency 13 years in • How to systematically develop taste • How Figma decides which product lines to add • Why Dylan obsesses over “time to value” • How AI is making design more valuable — Brought to you by: Stripe [https://stripe.com/]—Helping companies of all sizes grow revenue — Transcript: ⁠ [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-ai-makes-design-craft-and-quality-the-new-moat]https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-ai-makes-design-craft-and-quality-the-new-moat⁠ [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-ai-makes-design-craft-and-quality-the-new-moat] — My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): ⁠ [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/175569466/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation]https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/175569466/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation⁠ [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-ai-makes-design-craft-and-quality-the-new-moat] — Where to find Dylan Field: • X: https://x.com/zoink [https://x.com/zoink] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylanfield/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dylanfield/] — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com] • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan [https://twitter.com/lennysan] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/] — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Dylan Field (03:58) The Adobe deal fallout (05:50) Maintaining team morale post-deal (09:13) Strategies for sustaining high performance (13:37) Maintaining Figma’s unique company culture (16:22) Dylan’s leadership evolution (21:03) How to improve clarity as a leader (24:40) The controversy behind FigJam (31:06) Lessons from expanding Figma’s core product line (39:32) Time-to-value (45:14) Introduction to Figma Make (48:26) AI app prototyping and the future of Figma Make (53:38) Lessons from Figma’s AI product launch (57:47) The importance of craft (59:54) Developing good taste (01:05:35) The future of product development (01:10:32) Why AI won’t steal your job (01:14:37) AI corner (01:18:32) Lightning round and final thoughts — Referenced: • Dylan Field live at Config: Intuition, simplicity, and the future of design: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/dylan-field-live-at-config [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/dylan-field-live-at-config] • Figma: https://www.figma.com/ [https://www.figma.com/] • Adobe: https://www.adobe.com/ [https://www.adobe.com/] • Vision, conviction, and hype: How to build 0 to 1 inside a company | Mihika Kapoor (Product at Figma): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/vision-conviction-hype-mihika-kapoor] • Notion’s lost years, its near collapse during Covid, staying small to move fast, the joy and suffering of building horizontal, more | Ivan Zhao (CEO and co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-notion-ivan-zhao [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-notion-ivan-zhao] • $46B of hard truths from Ben Horowitz: Why founders fail and why you need to run toward fear (a16z co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/46b-of-hard-truths-from-ben-horowitz [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/46b-of-hard-truths-from-ben-horowitz] • FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/ [https://www.figma.com/figjam/] • Cursor chat: https://help.figma.com/hc/en-us/articles/4403130802199-Use-cursor-chat-in-Figma-Design [https://help.figma.com/hc/en-us/articles/4403130802199-Use-cursor-chat-in-Figma-Design] • Figma Slides: https://www.figma.com/slides/ [https://www.figma.com/slides/] • Figma Sites: https://www.figma.com/sites/ [https://www.figma.com/sites/] • Figma Buzz: https://www.figma.com/buzz/ [https://www.figma.com/buzz/] • Figma Draw: https://www.figma.com/draw/ [https://www.figma.com/draw/] • Figma Design: https://www.figma.com/design/ [https://www.figma.com/design/] • Dev Mode: https://www.figma.com/dev-mode/ [https://www.figma.com/dev-mode/] • Figma Make: https://www.figma.com/make/ [https://www.figma.com/make/] • Zach Lloyd on X: https://x.com/zachlloydtweets [https://x.com/zachlloydtweets] • Warp: https://www.warp.dev/ [https://www.warp.dev/] • Dylan’s post on X about Figma on an AI product leaderboard: https://x.com/zoink/status/1968588014935801884 [https://x.com/zoink/status/1968588014935801884] • Kurt Cobain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Cobain [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Cobain] • Damien Correll on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/damiencorrell/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/damiencorrell/] • Marcin Wichary on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwichary/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwichary/] • Loredana Crisan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/loredanacrisan/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/loredanacrisan/] • Amber Bravo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amberbravo/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/amberbravo/] • Figma’s 2025 AI report: Perspectives from designers and developers: https://www.figma.com/blog/figma-2025-ai-report-perspectives/ [https://www.figma.com/blog/figma-2025-ai-report-perspectives/] • Jevons paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox#Energy_conservation_policy [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox#Energy_conservation_policy] • AI prompt engineering in 2025: What works and what doesn’t | Sander Schulhoff (Learn Prompting, HackAPrompt): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/ai-prompt-engineering-in-2025-sander-schulhoff [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/ai-prompt-engineering-in-2025-sander-schulhoff] • Pantheon: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11680642/ [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11680642/] • Retro: https://retro.app/ [https://retro.app/'] • Thiel Fellowship: https://thielfellowship.org/ [https://thielfellowship.org/] — Recommended books: • Understanding Comics: The Invisible Art: https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Comics-Invisible-Scott-McCloud/dp/006097625X [https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Comics-Invisible-Scott-McCloud/dp/006097625X] • The Spy and the Traitor: The Greatest Espionage Story of the Cold War: https://www.amazon.com/Spy-Traitor-Greatest-Espionage-Story/dp/1101904216 [https://www.amazon.com/Spy-Traitor-Greatest-Espionage-Story/dp/1101904216] • Codex Seraphinianus: https://www.amazon.com/Codex-Seraphinianus-Anniversary-Luigi-Serafini/dp/0847871045 [https://www.amazon.com/Codex-Seraphinianus-Anniversary-Luigi-Serafini/dp/0847871045] Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ [https://penname.co/]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com [podcast@lennyrachitsky.com]. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. My biggest takeaways from this conversation: To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=show-notes-no-free-preview-language]

Robby Stein is VP of Product at Google, where he oversees the core products of Google Search—including the new AI Overviews, AI Mode, search ranking, Google Lens, and more. Previously, he led consumer products at Instagram, where he and his teams built Stories, Reels, Close Friends, and other key features now used by billions. — What you’ll learn: Why Google’s AI products are suddenly taking off after years of perceived stagnation  How AI is expanding Search rather than replacing it, contrary to what many predicted  The three core product principles that have helped Robby build multiple billion-user products  Inside Instagram’s decision to build its own version of Snapchat Stories  His mantra of “relentless improvement”  How Google developed AI Mode from concept to launch in just one year  Why most teams give up too early on potentially transformative products  — Brought to you by: Vanta [https://vanta.com/lenny]—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny [https://vanta.com/lenny] Jira Product Discovery [https://atlassian.com/lenny/?utm_source=lennypodcast&utm_medium=paid-audio&utm_campaign=fy24q1-jpd-imc]—Confidence to build the right thing: https://atlassian.com/lenny/?utm_source=lennypodcast&utm_medium=paid-audio&utm_campaign=fy24q1-jpd-imc [https://atlassian.com/lenny/?utm_source=lennypodcast&utm_medium=paid-audio&utm_campaign=fy24q1-jpd-imc] Orkes [https://www.orkes.io/]—The enterprise platform for reliable applications and agentic workflows: https://www.orkes.io/ [https://www.orkes.io/] — Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-google-built-ai-mode-in-under-a-year [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-google-built-ai-mode-in-under-a-year] — My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): ⁠ [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/175041217/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation]https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/175041217/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation⁠ [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/175041217/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation⁠] — Where to find Robby Stein: • X: https://x.com/rmstein [https://x.com/rmstein] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robbystein/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/robbystein/] — Referenced: • Google Gemini: https://gemini.google.com/app [https://gemini.google.com/app] • Nano Banana: https://aistudio.google.com/models/gemini-2-5-flash-image [https://aistudio.google.com/models/gemini-2-5-flash-image] • Chat GPT: https://chatgpt.com/ [https://chatgpt.com/] • Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/ [https://www.perplexity.ai/] • Google Lens: https://lens.google/ [https://lens.google/] • AI Google search: https://www.google.com/ai [https://www.google.com/ai] • Why ChatGPT will be the next big growth channel (and how to capitalize on it) | Brian Balfour (Reforge): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-chatgpt-will-be-the-next-big-growth-channel-brian-balfour [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-chatgpt-will-be-the-next-big-growth-channel-brian-balfour] • Alex Rampell on X: https://x.com/arampell [https://x.com/arampell] • A 4-step framework for building delightful products | Nesrine Changuel (Spotify, Google, Skype): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-4-step-framework-for-building-delightful-products [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/a-4-step-framework-for-building-delightful-products] • Look broader, look closer, think younger: Tony Fadell speaks at TED2015: https://blog.ted.com/look-broader-look-closer-think-younger-tony-fadell-speaks-at-ted2015/ [https://blog.ted.com/look-broader-look-closer-think-younger-tony-fadell-speaks-at-ted2015/] • Jobs to Be Done: https://www.christenseninstitute.org/theory/jobs-to-be-done/ [https://www.christenseninstitute.org/theory/jobs-to-be-done/] • The ultimate guide to JTBD | Bob Moesta (co-creator of the framework): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-jtbd-bob-moesta [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-jtbd-bob-moesta] • Rinstagram or Finstagram? The curious duality of the modern Instagram user: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/26/rinstagram-finstagram-instagram-accounts [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/26/rinstagram-finstagram-instagram-accounts] • V03: https://v03ai.com/ [https://v03ai.com/] • Pirate GPT: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/silentmeditation/pirate-gpt/ [https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/silentmeditation/pirate-gpt/] • The Bear on Hulu: https://www.hulu.com/series/the-bear-05eb6a8e-90ed-4947-8c0b-e6536cbddd5f [https://www.hulu.com/series/the-bear-05eb6a8e-90ed-4947-8c0b-e6536cbddd5f] • Dune on HBO Max: https://www.hbomax.com/movies/dune/e7dc7b3a-a494-4ef1-8107-f4308aa6bbf7 [https://www.hbomax.com/movies/dune/e7dc7b3a-a494-4ef1-8107-f4308aa6bbf7] • Top Gun: Maverick: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1745960/ [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1745960/] • Purple pillows: https://purple.com/pillows [https://purple.com/pillows] • Avocado pillow: https://www.avocadogreenmattress.com/products/green-pillow [https://www.avocadogreenmattress.com/products/green-pillow] • Justin Bieber’s website: https://www.justinbiebermusic.com/ [https://www.justinbiebermusic.com/] • Scooter Braun’s website: https://scooterbraun.com/ [https://scooterbraun.com/] — Recommended books: • Competing Against Luck: The Story of Innovation and Customer Choice: https://www.amazon.com/Competing-Against-Luck-Innovation-Customer/dp/0062435612 [https://www.amazon.com/Competing-Against-Luck-Innovation-Customer/dp/0062435612] • The Design of Everyday Things: https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expanded/dp/0465050654 [https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expanded/dp/0465050654] • Aurora: https://www.amazon.com/Aurora-High-Stakes-Survival-Navigate-Darkness/dp/0062916475 [https://www.amazon.com/Aurora-High-Stakes-Survival-Navigate-Darkness/dp/0062916475] • Project Hail Mary: https://www.amazon.com/Project-Hail-Mary-Andy-Weir/dp/0593135202 [https://www.amazon.com/Project-Hail-Mary-Andy-Weir/dp/0593135202] — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ [https://penname.co/]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com [http://podcast@lennyrachitsky.com]. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=show-notes-no-free-preview-language]