Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

Dmitry Zlokazov is the head of product at Revolut, the $45 billion fintech giant operating in over 50 countries, serving more than 50 million customers, and producing some of the world’s top product leaders. Dmitry shares his hard-won lessons, contrarian org design principles, and day-to-day practices that power Revolut’s relentless shipping velocity, culture of ownership, and unparalleled “wow” product experience. What you’ll learn: 1. Revolut’s unique organizational approach, where “product owners” manage cross-functional pods as “local CEOs,” with genuine end-to-end ownership and hiring/firing power 2. How a radical, ultra-flat structure enables more than 150 product owners to maintain founder-level quality and velocity across dozens of parallel launches 3. How Revolut maintains quality while shipping hundreds of features across over 50 countries 4. Why Revolut favors “raw intellect and hunger” over experience, and how internal transfers (including ex-engineers and ops managers) become the company’s most successful product leaders 5. How Revolut’s founders review every single UI shipped, and why this founder detail obsession scales rather than limits innovation 6. Their framework for launching new products—from ideation, validation, and first user cohort to rapid “algorithmization” and scaling across countries 7. The importance of treating products that are 99% done as closer to 0% done, vs. 100% done — This entire episode is brought to you by Stripe [https://stripe.com/]—Helping companies of all sizes grow revenue. — Where to find Dmitry Zlokazov: • X: https://x.com/Dzlokazov [https://x.com/Dzlokazov] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zlokazov/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/zlokazov/] — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com] • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan [https://twitter.com/lennysan] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/] — In this episode, we cover: (00:00 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kPpd21bFrE]) Introduction to Dmitry and Revolut (03:41 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kPpd21bFrE&t=221s]) Revolut’s unique approach to product management (06:58 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kPpd21bFrE&t=418s]) The role and responsibilities of product owners (09:28 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kPpd21bFrE&t=568s]) Types of product owners at Revolut (15:50 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kPpd21bFrE&t=950s]) Building “wow” products (25:00 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kPpd21bFrE&t=1500s]) Hiring practices (31:33 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kPpd21bFrE&t=1893s]) Managing teams and projects (41:07 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kPpd21bFrE&t=2467s]) Revolut’s diverse product offerings (44:40 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kPpd21bFrE&t=2680s]) Scaling new products successfully (52:10 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kPpd21bFrE&t=3130s]) Attracting top talent (58:43 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kPpd21bFrE&t=3523s]) Failure corner (01:02:49 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kPpd21bFrE&t=3769s]) Lightning round and final thoughts — Referenced: • Revolut: https://www.revolut.com/ [https://www.revolut.com/] • Intercom: https://www.intercom.com/ [https://www.intercom.com/] • Palantir: https://www.palantir.com/ [https://www.palantir.com/] • Which companies produce the best product managers: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/which-companies-produce-the-best [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/which-companies-produce-the-best] • Which companies accelerate PM careers most: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/which-companies-accelerate-your-pm [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/which-companies-accelerate-your-pm] • Deliver WOW to our customers: https://www.revolut.com/blog/post/deliver-wow/ [https://www.revolut.com/blog/post/deliver-wow/] • Nik Storonsky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nstoronsky [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nstoronsky] • Vlad Yatsenko on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yatsenko/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/yatsenko/] • How Palantir built the ultimate founder factory | Nabeel S. Qureshi (entrepreneur and writer, ex-Palantir): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-palantir-nabeel-qureshi [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-palantir-nabeel-qureshi] • Gokul Rajaram on designing your product development process, when and how to hire your first PM, a playbook for hiring leaders, getting ahead in you career, how to get started angel investing, more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/gokul-rajaram-on-designing-your-product [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/gokul-rajaram-on-designing-your-product] • Gokul Rajaram on X: https://x.com/gokulr [https://x.com/gokulr] • Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach] • Schlep blindness: https://www.paulgraham.com/schlep.html [https://www.paulgraham.com/schlep.html] • Revolut Launches RevPoints Loyalty Programme, Turning Daily Expenses into Exclusive Rewards: https://www.revolut.com/news/revolut_launches_revpoints_loyalty_programme_turning_daily_expenses_into_exclusive_rewards/ [https://www.revolut.com/news/revolut_launches_revpoints_loyalty_programme_turning_daily_expenses_into_exclusive_rewards/] • Gemini: https://gemini.google.com/ [https://gemini.google.com/] • ChatGPT: https://chatgpt.com/ [https://chatgpt.com/] • Figma: https://www.figma.com/ [https://www.figma.com/] • Oppenheimer: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15398776/ [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15398776/] • Manus: https://manus.im/ [https://manus.im/] • Eisenhower quote: https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/11/18/planning/ [https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/11/18/planning/] • Wealth protection: https://help.revolut.com/help/security-logging-in/wealth-protection/what-is-wealth-protection/ [https://help.revolut.com/help/security-logging-in/wealth-protection/what-is-wealth-protection/] — Recommended books: • The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business when There Are No Easy Answers―Straight Talk on the Challenges of Entrepreneurship: https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Thing-About-Things-Building/dp/0062273205 [https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Thing-About-Things-Building/dp/0062273205] • Build: An Unorthodox Guide to Making Things Worth Making―Personal Journey from Product Designer to Mentor: https://www.amazon.com/Build-Unorthodox-Guide-Making-Things/dp/0063046067 [https://www.amazon.com/Build-Unorthodox-Guide-Making-Things/dp/0063046067] — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ [https://penname.co/]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com [podcast@lennyrachitsky.com]. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2]

Nabeel Qureshi is an entrepreneur, writer, researcher, and visiting scholar of AI policy at the Mercatus Center (alongside Tyler Cowen). Previously, he spent nearly eight years at Palantir, working as a forward-deployed engineer. His work at Palantir ranged from accelerating the Covid-19 response to applying AI to drug discovery to optimizing aircraft manufacturing at Airbus. Nabeel was also a founding employee and VP of business development at GoCardless, a leading European fintech unicorn. What you’ll learn: • Why almost a third of all Palantir’s PMs go on to start companies • How the “forward-deployed engineer” model works and why it creates exceptional product leaders • How Palantir transformed from a “sparkling Accenture” into a $200 billion data/software platform company with more than 80% margins • The unconventional hiring approach that screens for independent-minded, intellectually curious, and highly competitive people • Why the company intentionally avoids traditional titles and career ladders—and what they do instead • Why they built an ontology-first data platform that LLMs love • How Palantir’s controversial “bat signal” recruiting strategy filtered for specific talent types • The moral case for working at a company like Palantir — Brought to you by: • WorkOS [https://workos.com/lenny]—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs • Attio [https://attio.com/lenny?utm_source=lennyrachitsky&utm_medium=sponsorship&utm_campaign=lenny-20230625]—The powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups • OneSchema [https://oneschema.co/lenny]—Import CSV data 10x faster — Where to find Nabeel S. Qureshi: • X: https://x.com/nabeelqu [https://x.com/nabeelqu] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nabeelqu/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nabeelqu/] • Website: https://nabeelqu.co/ [https://nabeelqu.co/] — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com] • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan [https://twitter.com/lennysan] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/] — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Nabeel S. Qureshi (05:10) Palantir’s unique culture and hiring (13:29) What Palantir looks for in people (16:14) Why they don't have titles (19:11) Forward-deployed engineers at Palantir (25:23) Key principles of Palantir's success (30:00) Gotham and Foundry (36:58) The ontology concept (38:02) Life as a forward-deployed engineer (41:36) Balancing custom solutions and product vision (46:36) Advice on how to implement forward-deployed engineers (50:41) The current state of forward-deployed engineers at Palantir (53:15) The power of ingesting, cleaning and analyzing data (59:25) Hiring for mission-driven startups (01:05:30) What makes Palantir PMs different (01:10:00) The moral question of Palantir (01:16:03) Advice for new startups (01:21:12) AI corner (01:24:00) Contrarian corner (01:25:42) Lightning round and final thoughts — Referenced: • Reflections on Palantir: https://nabeelqu.co/reflections-on-palantir [https://nabeelqu.co/reflections-on-palantir] • Palantir: https://www.palantir.com/ [https://www.palantir.com/] • Intercom: https://www.intercom.com/ [https://www.intercom.com/] • Which companies produce the best product managers: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/which-companies-produce-the-best [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/which-companies-produce-the-best] • Gotham: https://www.palantir.com/platforms/gotham/ [https://www.palantir.com/platforms/gotham/] • Foundry: https://www.palantir.com/platforms/foundry/ [https://www.palantir.com/platforms/foundry/] • Peter Thiel on X: https://x.com/peterthiel [https://x.com/peterthiel] • Alex Karp: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Karp [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Karp] • Stephen Cohen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Cohen_(entrepreneur) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Cohen_(entrepreneur)] • Joe Lonsdale on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jtlonsdale/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jtlonsdale/] • Tyler Cowen’s website: https://tylercowen.com/ [https://tylercowen.com/] • This Scandinavian City Just Won the Internet With Its Hilarious New Tourism Ad: https://www.afar.com/magazine/oslos-new-tourism-ad-becomes-viral-hit [https://www.afar.com/magazine/oslos-new-tourism-ad-becomes-viral-hit] • Safe Superintelligence: https://ssi.inc/ [https://ssi.inc/] • Mira Murati on X: https://x.com/miramurati [https://x.com/miramurati] • Stripe: https://stripe.com/ [https://stripe.com/] • Building product at Stripe: craft, metrics, and customer obsession | Jeff Weinstein (Product lead): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-product-at-stripe-jeff-weinstein [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-product-at-stripe-jeff-weinstein] • Airbus: https://www.airbus.com/en [https://www.airbus.com/en] • NIH: https://www.nih.gov/ [https://www.nih.gov/] • Jupyter Notebooks: https://jupyter.org/ [https://jupyter.org/] • Shyam Sankar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shyamsankar/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/shyamsankar/] • Palantir Gotham for Defense Decision Making: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxKghrZU5w8 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxKghrZU5w8] • Foundry 2022 Operating System Demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF-GSj-Exms [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uF-GSj-Exms] • SQL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQL] • Airbus A350: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A350 [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A350] • SAP: https://www.sap.com/index.html [https://www.sap.com/index.html] • Barry McCardel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barrymccardel/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/barrymccardel/] • Understanding ‘Forward Deployed Engineering’ and Why Your Company Probably Shouldn’t Do It: https://www.barry.ooo/posts/fde-culture [https://www.barry.ooo/posts/fde-culture] • David Hsu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dvdhsu/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dvdhsu/] • Retool’s Path to Product-Market Fit—Lessons for Getting to 100 Happy Customers, Faster: https://review.firstround.com/retools-path-to-product-market-fit-lessons-for-getting-to-100-happy-customers-faster/ [https://review.firstround.com/retools-path-to-product-market-fit-lessons-for-getting-to-100-happy-customers-faster/] • How to foster innovation and big thinking | Eeke de Milliano (Retool, Stripe): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-foster-innovation-and-big [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-foster-innovation-and-big] • Looker: https://cloud.google.com/looker [https://cloud.google.com/looker] • Sorry, that isn’t an FDE: https://tedmabrey.substack.com/p/sorry-that-isnt-an-fde [https://tedmabrey.substack.com/p/sorry-that-isnt-an-fde] • Glean: https://www.glean.com/ [https://www.glean.com/] • Limited Engagement: Is Tech Becoming More Diverse?: https://www.bkmag.com/2017/01/31/limited-engagement-creating-diversity-in-the-tech-industry/ [https://www.bkmag.com/2017/01/31/limited-engagement-creating-diversity-in-the-tech-industry/] • Operation Warp Speed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Warp_Speed] • Mark Zuckerberg testifies: https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-testifies-congress-libra-cryptocurrency-2019-10 [https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg-testifies-congress-libra-cryptocurrency-2019-10] • Anduril: https://www.anduril.com/ [https://www.anduril.com/] • SpaceX: https://www.spacex.com/ [https://www.spacex.com/] • Principles: https://nabeelqu.co/principles [https://nabeelqu.co/principles] • Wispr Flow: https://wisprflow.ai/ [https://wisprflow.ai/] • Claude code: https://docs.anthropic.com/en/docs/agents-and-tools/claude-code/overview [https://docs.anthropic.com/en/docs/agents-and-tools/claude-code/overview] • Gemini Pro 2.5: https://deepmind.google/technologies/gemini/pro/ [https://deepmind.google/technologies/gemini/pro/] • DeepMind: https://deepmind.google/ [https://deepmind.google/] • Latent Space newsletter: https://www.latent.space/ [https://www.latent.space/] • Swyx on x: https://x.com/swyx [https://x.com/swyx] • Neural networks in chess programs: https://www.chessprogramming.org/Neural_Networks [https://www.chessprogramming.org/Neural_Networks] • AlphaZero: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaZero [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaZero] • The top chess players in the world: https://www.chess.com/players [https://www.chess.com/players] • Decision to Leave: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12477480/ [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12477480/] • Oldboy: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364569/ [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364569/] • Christopher Alexander: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Alexander [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Alexander] — Recommended books: • The Technological Republic: Hard Power, Soft Belief, and the Future of the West: https://www.amazon.com/Technological-Republic-Power-Belief-Future/dp/0593798694 [https://www.amazon.com/Technological-Republic-Power-Belief-Future/dp/0593798694] • Zero to One: Notes on Startups, or How to Build the Future: https://www.amazon.com/Zero-One-Notes-Startups-Future/dp/0804139296 [https://www.amazon.com/Zero-One-Notes-Startups-Future/dp/0804139296] • Impro: Improvisation and the Theatre: https://www.amazon.com/Impro-Improvisation-Theatre-Keith-Johnstone/dp/0878301178/ [https://www.amazon.com/Impro-Improvisation-Theatre-Keith-Johnstone/dp/0878301178/] • William Shakespeare: Histories: https://www.amazon.com/Histories-Everymans-Library-William-Shakespeare/dp/0679433120/ [https://www.amazon.com/Histories-Everymans-Library-William-Shakespeare/dp/0679433120/] • High Output Management: https://www.amazon.com/High-Output-Management-Andrew-Grove/dp/0679762884 [https://www.amazon.com/High-Output-Management-Andrew-Grove/dp/0679762884] • Anna Karenina: https://www.amazon.com/Anna-Karenina-Leo-Tolstoy/dp/0143035002 [https://www.amazon.com/Anna-Karenina-Leo-Tolstoy/dp/0143035002] — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ [https://penname.co/]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com [podcast@lennyrachitsky.com]. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2]

Jerry Colonna is a world-renowned executive coach, a former venture capitalist, and the co-founder and CEO of Reboot, an executive coaching firm that combines practical leadership development with deeper self-inquiry. With over 27 years of coaching experience, he has guided countless leaders through the challenges of scaling companies, building teams, and navigating the emotional complexities of leadership. Known for his radical-self-inquiry approach, Jerry helps leaders uncover the unconscious patterns that hold them back and empowers them to lead with authenticity, compassion, and clarity. In our conversation, we cover: 1. A powerful question that unlocks self-awareness: “How have I been complicit in creating the conditions I say I don’t want?” 2. Jerry’s foundational equation for leadership success: practical skills + radical self-inquiry + shared experiences = enhanced leadership and resilience 3. Why teams most often fail (hint: it’s not lack of talent or strategy) 4. How busyness often masks deeper issues of self-worth 5. Why a “growth mindset” can be problematic 6. The importance of legacy and what it means to live a meaningful life 7. The role of AI in self-inquiry and how tools like ChatGPT can help uncover blind spots 8. Jerry’s advice for navigating the unsettling rise of AI and its implications for leadership and humanity — Brought to you by: Eppo [https://www.geteppo.com/]—Run reliable, impactful experiments Contentsquare [https://contentsquare.com/lenny/]—Create better digital experiences OneSchema [https://oneschema.co/lenny]—Import CSV data 10x faster — Where to find Jerry Colonna: • X: https://x.com/jerrycolonna [https://x.com/jerrycolonna] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerry-colonna-reboot/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jerry-colonna-reboot/] • Website: https://reunion.reboot.io/ [https://reunion.reboot.io/] — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com] • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan [https://twitter.com/lennysan] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/] — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Jerry Colonna (04:12) Jerry’s key question (06:55) The equation for great leadership (09:37) The big lie of success and happiness (12:12) The consciousness hack (15:56) Getting over the fear of consequences (20:23) The problem with bypassing our childhood baggage (23:22) Radical self-inquiry: asking the tough questions (27:05) Shared experiences: the power of community (30:25) The trap of busyness and attachment (40:45) Understanding our own intentions (46:58) Legacy and purpose (55:43) Writing for self-discovery (57:12) The impact of AI on humanity (01:05:00) Turning a growth mindset into a fixed mindset (01:11:30) The role of radical self-inquiry in leadership (01:19:24) Final thoughts and reflections — Referenced: • Naropa University: https://www.naropa.edu/ [https://www.naropa.edu/] • Fitler Club: https://fitlerclub.com [https://fitlerclub.com] • Chris Fralic on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisfralic/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisfralic/] • Will Smith on the price of fame: ‘I have been deeply humbled and deeply inspired’: https://www.today.com/popculture/news/will-smith-fame-rcna127830 [https://www.today.com/popculture/news/will-smith-fame-rcna127830] • Seth Godin’s best tactics for building remarkable products, strategies, brands, and more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/seth-godins-tactics-for-building-remarkable-products [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/seth-godins-tactics-for-building-remarkable-products] • The life of Buddha: https://www.britannica.com/summary/Buddha-founder-of-Buddhism [https://www.britannica.com/summary/Buddha-founder-of-Buddhism] • 10% Happier with Dan Harris podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/10-happier-with-dan-harris/id1087147821 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/10-happier-with-dan-harris/id1087147821] • Simon Sinek’s website: https://simonsinek.com/ [https://simonsinek.com/] • Mike Tyson Gives Morbid Response to Young Interviewer’s Question About His “Legacy”: https://www.vibe.com/news/entertainment/mike-tyson-morbid-response-young-interviewer-legacy-1234944054/ [https://www.vibe.com/news/entertainment/mike-tyson-morbid-response-young-interviewer-legacy-1234944054/] • Dan Shipper’s post on X about asking ChatGPT for blind spots: https://x.com/danshipper/status/1910387987487318318 [https://x.com/danshipper/status/1910387987487318318] • Evernote: https://evernote.com/ [https://evernote.com/] • Claude: https://claude.ai [https://claude.ai] • Peter Senge on X: https://x.com/petersenge [https://x.com/petersenge] • Carl Jung’s quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/44379-until-you-make-the-unconscious-conscious-it-will-direct-your [https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/44379-until-you-make-the-unconscious-conscious-it-will-direct-your] • Parker Palmer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/parker-j-palmer-5a92b110/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/parker-j-palmer-5a92b110/] • The unexamined life is not worth living: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_unexamined_life_is_not_worth_living [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_unexamined_life_is_not_worth_living] — Recommended books: • Reboot: Leadership and the Art of Growing Up: https://www.amazon.com/Reboot-Leadership-Art-Growing-Up/dp/0062749536 [https://www.amazon.com/Reboot-Leadership-Art-Growing-Up/dp/0062749536] • Reunion: Leadership and the Longing to Belong: https://www.amazon.com/Reunion-Leadership-Longing-Jerry-Colonna/dp/0063142139 [https://www.amazon.com/Reunion-Leadership-Longing-Jerry-Colonna/dp/0063142139] • Born to Run: https://www.amazon.com/Born-Run-Bruce-Springsteen/dp/1501141511 [https://www.amazon.com/Born-Run-Bruce-Springsteen/dp/1501141511] • 10% Happier: How I Tamed the Voice in My Head, Reduced Stress Without Losing My Edge, and Found Self-Help That Actually Works—A True Story: https://www.amazon.com/10-Happier-Self-Help-Actually-Works/dp/0062265431 [https://www.amazon.com/10-Happier-Self-Help-Actually-Works/dp/0062265431] • Soldiers and Kings: Survival and Hope in the World of Human Smuggling: https://www.amazon.com/Soldiers-Kings-Survival-World-Smuggling/dp/0593298586 [https://www.amazon.com/Soldiers-Kings-Survival-World-Smuggling/dp/0593298586] • The Giving Tree: https://www.amazon.com/Giving-Tree-Shel-Silverstein/dp/0060256656/ [https://www.amazon.com/Giving-Tree-Shel-Silverstein/dp/0060256656/] — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ [https://penname.co/]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com [podcast@lennyrachitsky.com]. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2]

Scott Wu is the co-founder and CEO of Cognition, the company behind Devin—the world’s first autonomous AI software engineer. Unlike other AI coding tools, Devin works like an autonomous engineer that you can interact with through Slack, Linear, and GitHub, just like with a remote engineer. With Scott’s background in competitive programming and a previous AI-powered startup, Lunchclub, teaching AI to code has become his ultimate passion.What you’ll learn: 1. How a team of “Devins” are already producing 25% of Cognition’s pull requests, and they are on track to hit 50% by year’s end 2. How each engineer on Cognition’s 15-person engineering team works with about five Devins each 3. How Devin has evolved from a “high school CS student” to a “junior engineer” over the past year 4. Why engineering will shift from “bricklayers” to “architects” 5. Why AI tools will lead to more engineering jobs rather than fewer 6. How Devin creates its own wiki to understand and document complex codebases 7. The eight pivots Cognition went through before landing on their current approach 8. The cultural shifts required to successfully adopt AI engineers — Brought to you by: Enterpret [https://enterpret.com/lenny]—Transform customer feedback into product growth Paragon [https://www.useparagon.com/lenny]—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want Attio [https://attio.com/lenny?utm_source=lennyrachitsky&utm_medium=sponsorship&utm_campaign=lenny-20230625]—The powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups — Where to find Scott Wu: • X: https://x.com/scottwu46 [https://x.com/scottwu46] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-wu-8b94ab96/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-wu-8b94ab96/] — Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com] • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan [https://twitter.com/lennysan] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/] — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Scott Wu and Devin (09:13) Scaling and future prospects (10:23) Devin's origin story (17:26) The idea of Devin as a person (22:19) How a team of “Devins” are already producing 25% of Cognition’s pull requests (25:17) Important skills in the AI era (30:21) How Cognition’s engineering team works with Devin's (34:37) Live demo (42:20) Devin’s codebase integration (44:50) Automation with Linear (46:53) What Devin does best (52:56) The future of AI in software engineering (57:13) Moats and stickiness in AI (01:01:57) The tech that enables Devin (01:04:14) AI will be the biggest technology shift of our lives (01:07:25) Adopting Devin in your company (01:15:13) Startup wisdom and hiring practices (01:22:32) Lightning round and final thoughts — Referenced: • Devin: https://devin.ai/ [https://devin.ai/] • GitHub: https://github.com/ [https://github.com/] • Linear: https://linear.app/ [https://linear.app/] • Waymo: https://waymo.com/ [https://waymo.com/] • GitHub Copilot: https://github.com/features/copilot [https://github.com/features/copilot] • Cursor: https://www.cursor.com/ [https://www.cursor.com/] • Anysphere: https://anysphere.inc/ [https://anysphere.inc/] • Bolt: https://bolt.new/ [https://bolt.new/] • StackBlitz: https://stackblitz.com/ [https://stackblitz.com/] • Cognition: https://cognition.ai/ [https://cognition.ai/] • v0: https://v0.dev/ [https://v0.dev/] • Vercel: https://vercel.com/ [https://vercel.com/] • Everyone’s an engineer now: Inside v0’s mission to create a hundred million builders | Guillermo Rauch (founder and CEO of Vercel, creators of v0 and Next.js): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/everyones-an-engineer-now-guillermo-rauch [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/everyones-an-engineer-now-guillermo-rauch] • Inside Bolt: From near-death to ~$40m ARR in 5 months—one of the fastest-growing products in history | Eric Simons (founder and CEO of StackBlitz): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-bolt-eric-simons [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-bolt-eric-simons] • Assembly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_language [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_language] • Pascal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_(programming_language) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal_(programming_language)] • Python: https://www.python.org/ [https://www.python.org/] • Jevons paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox] • Datadog: https://www.datadoghq.com/ [https://www.datadoghq.com/] • Bending the universe in your favor | Claire Vo (LaunchDarkly, Color, Optimizely, ChatPRD): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/bending-the-universe-in-your-favor [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/bending-the-universe-in-your-favor] • OpenAI’s CPO on how AI changes must-have skills, moats, coding, startup playbooks, more | Kevin Weil (CPO at OpenAI, ex-Instagram, Twitter): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai] • Behind the product: Replit | Amjad Masad (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-product-replit-amjad-masad [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-product-replit-amjad-masad] • Windsurf: https://windsurf.com/ [https://windsurf.com/] • COBOL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COBOL [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COBOL] • Fortran: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran] • Magic the Gathering: https://magic.wizards.com/en [https://magic.wizards.com/en] • Aura frames: https://auraframes.com/ [https://auraframes.com/] • AirPods: https://www.apple.com/airpods/ [https://www.apple.com/airpods/] • Steven Hao on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-hao-160b9638/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/steven-hao-160b9638/] • Walden Yan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/waldenyan/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/waldenyan/] — Recommended books: • How to Win Friends & Influence People: https://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034 [https://www.amazon.com/How-Win-Friends-Influence-People/dp/0671027034] • The Power Law: Venture Capital and the Making of the New Future: https://www.amazon.com/Power-Law-Venture-Capital-Making/dp/052555999X [https://www.amazon.com/Power-Law-Venture-Capital-Making/dp/052555999X] • The Great Gatsby: https://www.amazon.com/Great-Gatsby-F-Scott-Fitzgerald/dp/0743273567 [https://www.amazon.com/Great-Gatsby-F-Scott-Fitzgerald/dp/0743273567] — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ [https://penname.co/]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com [podcast@lennyrachitsky.com]. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2]

Michael Truell is the co-founder and CEO of Anysphere, the company behind Cursor—the fastest-growing AI code editor in the world, reaching $300 million in annual recurring revenue just two years after its launch. In this conversation, Michael shares his vision for the future, lessons learned, and advice for preparing for the fast-approaching AI future. What you’ll learn: • Cursor's early pivot from automating CAD to automating code • Michael’s vision for “what comes after code” and how programming will evolve • Why Cursor built their own custom AI models despite not starting there • Key lessons from Cursor’s rapid growth • Why “taste” and logic design will become more valuable engineering skills than technical coding ability • Why the market for AI coding tools is much larger than people realize—and why there will likely be one dominant winner • Michael’s advice for engineers and product teams preparing for the AI future — Brought to you by: Eppo [https://www.geteppo.com/]—Run reliable, impactful experiments Vanta [https://vanta.com/lenny]—Automate compliance. Simplify security OneSchema [https://oneschema.co/lenny]—Import CSV data 10x faster — Where to find Michael Truell: • X: https://x.com/mntruell [https://x.com/mntruell] • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-t-5b1bbb122/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-t-5b1bbb122/] • Website: https://mntruell.com/ [https://mntruell.com/] — In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Introduction to Michael Truell and Cursor (04:20) What comes after code (08:32) The importance of taste (12:39) Cursor’s origin story (18:31) Why they chose to build an IDE (22:39) Will everyone become engineering managers? (24:31) How they decided it was time to ship (26:45) Reflecting on Cursor's success (32:03) Counterintuitive lessons on building AI products (34:02) Inside Cursor's stack (38:42) Defensibility and market dynamics in AI (46:13) Tips for using Cursor (51:25) Hiring and building a strong team (59:10) Staying focused amid rapid AI advancements (01:02:31) Final thoughts and advice for aspiring AI innovators — Referenced: • Cursor: https://www.cursor.com/ [https://www.cursor.com/] • Microsoft Copilot: https://copilot.microsoft.com/ [https://copilot.microsoft.com/] • Scaling laws for neural language models: https://openai.com/index/scaling-laws-for-neural-language-models/ [https://openai.com/index/scaling-laws-for-neural-language-models/] • MIT: https://www.mit.edu/ [https://www.mit.edu/] • Telegram: https://telegram.org/ [https://telegram.org/] • Signal: https://signal.org/ [https://signal.org/] • WhatsApp: https://www.whatsapp.com/ [https://www.whatsapp.com/] • Devin: https://devin.ai/ [https://devin.ai/] • Visual Studio Code: https://code.visualstudio.com/ [https://code.visualstudio.com/] • Chromium: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/base/ [https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromium/src/base/] • Exploring ChatGPT (GPT) Wrappers—What They Are and How They Work: https://learnprompting.org/blog/gpt_wrappers [https://learnprompting.org/blog/gpt_wrappers] • OpenAI’s CPO on how AI changes must-have skills, moats, coding, startup playbooks, more | Kevin Weil (CPO at OpenAI, ex-Instagram, Twitter): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai] • Behind the founder: Marc Benioff: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-founder-marc-benioff [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-founder-marc-benioff] • DALL-E 3: https://openai.com/index/dall-e-3/ [https://openai.com/index/dall-e-3/] • Stable Diffusion 3: https://stability.ai/news/stable-diffusion-3 [https://stability.ai/news/stable-diffusion-3] — Production and marketing by https://penname.co/ [https://penname.co/]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com [podcast@lennyrachitsky.com]. — Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe [https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_2]