We're Not Marketers

How a Guy Who Graded Film Got Tricked Into Product Marketing w/ Jason Druss

Jason Druss spent 15 years being the customer — a film colorist at Warner Bros, NFL Films, and his own Philly boutique — before Adobe pulled him into product marketing for Premier Pro and After Effects. In this episode, Jason (Principal Product Marketing Manager, Adobe) drops his takes: why workflow isn't a buzzword when you've actually lived it, how his team runs a private WhatsApp group with hundreds of users, and why being your own ICP is both a superpower and a trap. If you've ever felt like a fraud talking about users you've never met, this one's for you. More from this episode * Why "customer" gives Jason the ick (and what word he uses instead) * The PMM job is 50% talking to users — not Slack, not slides, not strategy decks * How Adobe's PMM team gets buy-in before a feature exists, not after * The Tarantino move: why Jason starts every story at the end * Being your own ICP is a cheat code… until it makes you look like a fanboy at annual planning * The exact reason Frame.io [http://Frame.io]'s Camera to Cloud killed an industry workflow that hadn't changed since 1920 * Why every PMM should buy a pillow with their product's logo on it (yes, really) * The unsexy truth about "creative freedom" — you have to earn it with data first * How Jason found his PMM job: he wasn't looking, his mentor was watching his LinkedIn posts * Why "make it pretty" and "make it beautiful" are two completely different briefs Time Stamps 00:00 Cold open — the misfit intros 00:45 Why this episode is different: a PMM pulled IN to PMM, not chasing it 01:30 Jason Druss intro — from colorist to Adobe PMM 02:15 THE QUESTION: Are product marketers marketers? 03:30 "We're storytellers before we're marketers" 04:30 Should the product or the user be the main character? 05:30 The trap of feature-led storytelling vs. workflow thinking 07:00 What "workflow" actually means (and why it's not jargon) 09:00 The Frame.io [http://Frame.io] / Camera to Cloud story 12:30 How Frame.io [http://Frame.io] rewrote a 100-year-old industry workflow 14:00 Jason's spicy take: PMMs must eat, live, breathe the product 16:00 How user needs have shifted dramatically in 5–10 years 18:00 The Premier Pro pillow story (and why every PMM should have one) 19:00 Where most companies fail at user research 20:30 The private WhatsApp group with hundreds of users 21:30 Weekly webinars, betas, and the questions you're NOT asking users 24:00 Scrappy is a state of mind, not a company size 25:00 Jason's career timeline: Blackmagic → NFL Films → Warner Bros → Frame.io [http://Frame.io] → Adobe 28:00 The crisis of faith — leaving "colorist" behind 30:00 Why Jason's passion is impossible to fake 31:30 The dark side of being your own ICP 33:00 Mixing intuition with data — the PMM credibility unlock 35:00 Advice for aspiring PMMs: become a subject matter expert first 38:00 The creativity rant — your differentiator vs. AI 41:30 ROI, business metrics, and earning the seat at the table 44:00 The "beautiful circle" of product marketing (and who's outside it) 46:00 Where to find Jason + Adobe Max teaser 48:00 Outro Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy [https://ausha.co/privacy-policy] for more information.

AI is killing your marketing (one way to fix)

Some of B2B are the cool kids shouting "synergy" with spinach dip in hand. Gila Shapiro — copywriter, PMM, and resident chaos agent at Fireflies.ai — joined the crew to roast corporate buzzwords, expose "copy thinking" and "copy pasting" with AI, and give the founder POV trick that ends executive copy fights forever. If you've ever been asked to "elevate enterprise synergies," this one's for you. More from this episode * The two words that should disqualify any marketer from giving copy feedback (hint: rhymes with "synergy") * Why having a frying pan doesn't make you a chef — and writing copy doesn't make you a copywriter * The "shout pineapple" school of copywriting * Why B2B brands are scared of being unfollowed — and why that's why nobody clicks * The dinner party test that kills 90% of corporate jargon on contact * The difference between "copy thinking" and "copy pasting" (and why one of these kills your career in 18 months) * Gila's reverse-engineering trick for ending founder vs. marketer copy fights forever * Why making your boss happy and making your customer click are two completely different jobs * The brutally honest reason most messaging processes are broken — and the only fix that actually works * Gila pitches Riverside vs. SquadCast live on the show (and we may or may not be switching now) Show Notes Timespan: 00:00 Cold Open & Host Introductions (Eric, Zach, Gab) 01:00 Introducing Gila Shapiro — Copywriter, PMM, Creative Strategist at Riverside 02:50 The Recurring Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 04:00 The "Elevate Your Enterprise Synergies" Test 05:30 Writing Copy vs. Being a Copywriter — The Frying Pan Analogy 07:00 Gila's Process: Say the Terrible Thing Out Loud 07:35 The Dinner Party Test 09:00 Why Most People Default to Corporate Jargon 12:30 Be Interested to Be Interesting — The Customer Interview Trick 15:30 Ownership at Riverside & Wearing Multiple Hats 17:30 The Broken Brief-to-Copy Handoff Process 19:30 What to Do When Good Copy Doesn't Convert 21:30 Personal Brands vs. B2B Brands: Why B2B Is Afraid 23:30 AI for Job Security — Copy Think vs. Copy Paste 27:00 The "Copy Think vs. Copy Paste" Framework 30:00 Internal Fights with Executives Over Copy 31:25 The Founder POV Reverse-Engineering Trick 33:30 Burnout, Garden Gnomes, and Chasing the Fun Parts 36:30 Live Pitch: Why Switch from SquadCast to Riverside? 40:30 Cheers and Farewell Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy [https://ausha.co/privacy-policy] for more information.

Allergic to bullshit marketing w/ Louis Grenier

Louis Grenier has run a podcast called Everyone Hates Marketers for 8 years. He's not here to be nice about it. In this episode, Lou breaks down why product marketing only exists because B2B tech forgot what customers actually want — and why your positioning project is probably being run by the wrong person. We cover customer research frameworks, the CEO buy-in problem no one talks about, and the Irish convenience store that is a crime against positioning. Hit play before your next messaging doc meeting. You'll thank us. More from this episode * Product marketing only exists because B2B tech companies got so far from their customers they had to invent a role to translate what the product actually does. * Why the most powerful thing a consultant can offer is not being inside the company. * Lou's actual Hotjar failure — why the CMO wasn't enough to make repositioning work. * The six things you need to know from customers before you can touch a positioning doc. * Why calling something a "marketing initiative" is the fastest way to kill CEO buy-in. * "Sniff the same glue" — Lou's surprisingly accurate description of organizational alignment. * The 3-meter Irish storefront that is simultaneously a convenience store, Indian takeaway, off-license, and Red Bull dealer. One shop. Three meters. Zero positioning. * Why community is just a word companies use when they want a place to sell at people without being obvious about it. * Lou's hot take on co-founders: "Good luck to whoever wants to take that role with me." * The one customer research mistake that guarantees useless data: talking to the wrong people at the wrong time. Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy [https://ausha.co/privacy-policy] for more information.

“I’m Just A Normal PMM Trying To Survive” (with David Lim)

Are product marketers actually marketers, or are they just glorified slide deck designers waiting for sales to bark orders? David Lim—a PMM who's survived Google, HP, and multiple startups—joins the skeleton crew to drop some uncomfortable truths. We talk about earning respect when founders don't have a clue what you do, why knowing your customer's quarterly priorities is a superpower, and what happens when you fight a C-suite exec on product strategy (spoiler: sometimes you get fired). If you've ever been asked to "make that deck pretty," this one's for you. More From This Episode * The brutal truth: What happens when you don't earn internal respect as a PMM * Why sales teams don't talk to product teams (and how PMMs become the bridge) * The one customer question David asks that unlocks everything: "What are your quarterly priorities?" * David got fired for fighting a founder on product strategy—here's what he learned * Why most founders have zero idea what PMMs actually do (and think you're just a lead gen machine) * The "gut feeling" trap: When executives ignore your research and launch anyway * How to stop rolling your eyes when leadership makes dumb decisions (David admits he's not good at this) * Why working under the product org might actually be better for PMMs * The ultimate PMM flex: Knowing your customer better than anyone in the company * Are PMMs actually marketers, or just the people who make sales decks look pretty? Time Stamps 00:00 Introduction and Season 5 Kickoff 00:59 Introducing Guest: David Lim (PMM at BVO) 02:36 The Big Question: Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 04:15 How PMMs Earn Respect (Or Get Stuck in the Black Hole) 07:00 What Sets PMMs Apart: Cross-Functional Collaboration 09:45 The Research That Changed Everything (Working Under Product Org) 13:00 Advocating for PMM: Educating Teams on What You Actually Do 16:00 The Metrics Problem: What Should PMMs Own? 20:00 Working with Customer Success Teams (QBRs and Product Feedback) 23:00 When You Know the Customer Better Than Anyone Else 26:00 Understanding Quarterly Priorities (The Detail Most PMMs Miss) 29:00 Customer Advisory Boards and Sales Advisory Boards 33:00 The Struggle: When Executives Ignore Your Research 35:00 David's Story: Getting Fired for Fighting Product Strategy 38:00 Gab's Story: When a Writer Called the Product "Shit" 40:00 Rolling with the Punches (And Why It's Hard) 42:00 In-House vs. Agency PMM: The Respect Difference 45:00 Post-Launch Research: The Key to Proving You Were Right 47:00 The Founder Talk: Setting Clear Expectations 49:00 Understanding the Customer's Buying Process 50:00 Wrap-Up and Where to Find David Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy [https://ausha.co/privacy-policy] for more information.

The Anti-ICP Strategy: How To Use Your Website to Fire Bad Prospects w/ BX Studio

Product marketers think they own the messaging. SEO thinks they own the traffic. But who actually owns your website—and why are they both probably wrong? In this spicy debate with BX Studio, we dig into the turf war destroying B2B websites, why your CEO is the real problem, and the radical idea that maybe your website should actually reject leads (yes, really). Buckle up for hot takes on keyword worship, the death of MQLs, and why your Rolex store strategy is all wrong. Featuring from BX Studio... Jacob Sussman, CEO Nikiya Griffith, Director of Organic Growth Grace Arrese, Partnerships Associate More from this episode * Why adding SEO keywords is like putting ketchup on a wagyu steak * The real reason your website converts trash leads (hint: it's not the copy) * What Rolex stores know about lead qualification that B2B marketers don't * The "Irish Exit" messaging framework that'll change how you write forever * Why tracking MQLs is like measuring your height to lose weight * The CEO wrecking ball effect (and why it destroys every website eventually) * How QuickBooks became a cautionary tale for AI-obsessed marketers * The Writer's Wiki secret that could save product marketing 20 hours a week * Why your anti-ICP strategy matters more than your ICP * The shocking truth about who actually owns your website (spoiler: it's not who you think) Time Stamps 00:00 Opening & Attendee Check-in 01:00 Real Humans vs AI Note-takers Discussion 02:00 Setting the Stage: PMMs vs Non-PMMs 03:00 The Main Question: Who Should Own the Website? 03:45 Eric's Hot Take: Product Marketing Should Own It 04:45 Nikia's Counter: Joint Ownership is Key 05:45 Website Ownership and Blame Discussion 07:00 Real-World Website Conversion Problems 08:30 The Writer's Wiki Solution 11:00 Dream Relationships Between PMM and SEO 13:00 Keyword Lists vs Message-First Approach 16:00 Website Design and FAQ Strategy 18:00 The CRO/CEO Acronym Confusion 20:00 QuickBooks AI Positioning Disaster 22:00 Who Has Final Say on Messaging? 26:30 The CEO Wrecking Ball Problem 29:00 The Irish Exit Messaging Analogy 31:00 Metrics That Matter: SQLs vs MQLs 33:00 The Rolex Store Anti-ICP Strategy 35:00 Enterprise Positioning and Deterrence 38:00 Nikia's Counter: Why More Metrics Matter 41:00 The Internal Echo Chamber Problem 45:00 GEO vs SEO: The New Frontier 48:00 Closing Thoughts and Farewell Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy [https://ausha.co/privacy-policy] for more information.