Why Great Lawyers Still Lose Clients Without Commercial Thinking and Human Trust with Tom Cassels

How Big Law Partners Already Have Clients to Start a Firm and Increase Profits with James Hacking

In this episode of Beyond Billables: Lessons from Top Law Firm Partners, host Stephen Rodney [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] speaks with James Hacking [https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-hacking-376b32/], Co-founder and CEO of Kindleworth LLP [https://www.linkedin.com/company/kindleworth-llp/]. The conversation explores how and why top lawyers are choosing to launch their own firms, the realities behind law firm startups, and how the legal market is evolving. They also discuss private equity in law, the role of technology, and why specialisation and independence are becoming more attractive in today’s legal landscape. James Hacking is Co-founder and CEO of Kindleworth LLP, a consultancy that helps launch and manage law firms. With nearly 30 years of experience in legal operations, including roles across HR, compliance, and business strategy, James has supported the creation of over 50 law firms globally. His work focuses on helping partners build high-performing firms while removing operational burdens so they can focus on clients and growth. Expect to Learn: * Why many partners are choosing to leave large firms and start their own practices * The common fears around launching a law firm and how they are addressed * How law firm startups can be profitable from an early stage * The growing role of private equity and external funding in legal services * Why specialisation and new firm models are shaping the future of law Episode Breakdown with Timestamps: * [00:00] – Teaser * [00:54] – Welcome to Beyond Billables * [01:54] – Introduction of James Hacking (Kindleworth) * [05:24] – Signature Litigation and Three Crowns (2014) * [09:43] – Host asks about worries * [14:08] – Margins of 55‑65%, founders can earn more * [19:30] – Exit questions – not yet seen in practice * [23:54] – Larger partnerships find change harder * [29:00] – Not in 12 months, but seems inevitable longer term * [37:26] – US‑UK mergers creating opportunities for teams to leave * [44:23] – AI as a positive driver for law firm founders * [47:32] – US market prospects – opening an East Coast office * [49:08] – Closing thanks Connect with James Hacking: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-hacking-376b32/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-hacking-376b32/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/kindleworth-llp/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/kindleworth-llp/] * Company’s Website: https://kindleworth.com/ [https://kindleworth.com/] Connect with Stephen Rodney: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] * Company’s Website: https://www.linkedin.com/company/booxkeepingfranchise/https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Connect with IntoGreat Coaching: * Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Listening Links: * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4 [https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4] * Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8lhttps://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l [https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l]

Why Great Lawyers Still Lose Clients Without Commercial Thinking and Human Trust with Tom Cassels

In this episode of Beyond Billables, host Stephen Rodney [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] speaks with Tom Cassels [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-cassels-8a0a538/], Senior Partner at Linklaters [https://www.linkedin.com/company/linklaters/], about how top litigators build and sustain successful careers. The conversation explores Tom’s unconventional path into law, the evolution of complex litigation, and how the profession is changing with funding models and AI. The episode also focuses on the human side of legal practice, including client relationships, leadership, and building strong teams. Tom Cassels is a Senior Litigation partner at Linklaters, specialising in high stakes disputes, public law, and competition litigation. He began his career at Baker McKenzie, where he developed broad litigation experience before specialising through major cases such as the Camelot judicial review. Over time, he became known for handling complex, high profile matters and has worked with global clients across industries, including sports and international disputes. EXPECT TO LEARN * How strong client relationships shape successful legal outcomes * Why commercial thinking matters more than pure legal arguments * How litigation funding and class actions are changing the legal market * What makes a successful law firm partner beyond technical skills * How AI may increase the value of human judgement in law Episode Breakdown with Timestamps * [00:00] – Teaser * [01:03] – Welcome to Beyond Billables & Introduction of Tom Cassels * [05:14] – Running cases unsupervised, then moving to Australia * [09:40] – What makes a successful litigation partner * [15:19] – Young lawyers afraid to pick up the phone * [21:51] – AI and house‑buying analogy – trust in human judgment * [27:51] – Law firms getting better at management over time * [31:08] – Making sponsoring partners responsible for integration * [36:40] – War story: Lewis Hamilton’s Belgian GP appeal (2007) * [42:32] – Advice to younger self: less time in the bar * [48:37] – Three non‑negotiable behaviours: respect, honesty, enjoyment * [49:31] – Closing thanks and episode wrap‑up Connect with Tom Cassels: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-cassels-8a0a538/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-cassels-8a0a538/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/linklaters/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/linklaters/] * Company’s Website: https://www.linklaters.com/ [https://www.linklaters.com/] Connect with Stephen Rodney: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] * Company’s Website: https://www.linkedin.com/company/booxkeepingfranchise/https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Connect with IntoGreat Coaching: * Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Listening Links: * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4 [https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4] * Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311] * YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8lhttps://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l [https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l]

How Being a Law Firm Partner Is Harder Than Ever Beyond Billing and Skills with Paul Thwaite

In this episode of Beyond Billables: Lessons from Top Law Firm Partners, host Stephen Rodney [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] sits down with Paul Thwaite [https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-thwaite-b25b3135/], Senior Partner at Stephenson Harwood LLP [https://www.linkedin.com/company/stephenson-harwood-llp/]. The conversation explores Paul’s journey from a non-academic background into law, his long career at a single firm, and his transition into leadership. They discuss what makes a successful law firm partner today, how the role has changed over time, and the growing complexity of legal practice. The episode also covers leadership challenges, lateral hiring success, firm culture, and the future impact of AI and private equity on the legal industry. Paul Thwaite is the Senior Partner of Stephenson Harwood LLP, an international law firm with offices across Europe, the Middle East, and Asia. He joined the firm in 1992, became a partner in 2002, and built his career as a construction disputes lawyer. Over time, he moved into leadership roles, including co-leading the litigation group before being elected Senior Partner. Paul combines active legal practice with firm leadership and brings deep insight into law firm management, culture, and long-term career development. EXPECT TO LEARN: * How the role of a law firm partner has evolved and become more complex * Why culture and personality are key to lateral hiring success * The difference between being a partner, a manager, and a firm leader * How law firms measure partner performance beyond just billing * The impact of AI and changing client expectations on legal work EPISODE BREAKDOWN WITH TIMESTAMPS: * [00:00] – Teaser * [01:08] – Welcome to Beyond Billables & Introduction of Paul Thwaite * [05:16] – Never left the firm; became partner in 2002 * [11:18] – What makes a successful partner beyond billing * [17:57] – Transition from client partner to group leader – different skill set * [23:36] – Transition to senior partner (non‑executive role) * [31:17] – Metrics: FCI (financial contribution) and wider contribution * [38:30] – Best moments: winning pitches, seeing juniors become partners * [46:33] – Advice to younger self: take more time off, protect mental health * [51:30] – Private equity: independence and culture are paramount * [56:37] – Golden rule: enjoy it – otherwise do something else * [57:12] – Closing thanks and episode wrap‑up Connect with Paul Thwaite: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-thwaite-b25b3135/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-thwaite-b25b3135/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/stephenson-harwood-llp/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/stephenson-harwood-llp/] * Company’s Website: https://www.stephensonharwood.com/ [https://www.stephensonharwood.com/] Connect with Stephen Rodney: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] * Company’s Website: https://www.linkedin.com/company/booxkeepingfranchise/https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Connect with IntoGreat Coaching: * Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Listening Links: * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4 [https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4] * Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311] * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8lhttps://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l [https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l]

He Left Broken Law Firms to Build a 600-Lawyer, Freedom-Based Practice with Darryl Cooke

In this episode of Beyond Billables: Lessons from Top Law Firm Partners, host Stephen Rodney [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] interviews Darryl Cooke [https://www.linkedin.com/in/darryljcooke/], Founder and Executive Chair of gunnercooke [https://www.linkedin.com/company/gunnercooke-llp/], a next-generation law firm that has grown to 16 offices across the US, Austria, Germany, Scotland, and England. Darryl shares his unconventional journey into law and how frustration with traditional law firm leadership pushed him to build a more flexible, entrepreneurial model that empowers lawyers to run their own practices while still collaborating within a shared firm structure. Darryl Cooke also discusses gunnercooke’s rapid growth to more than 600 professionals worldwide and how the firm blends autonomy with collaboration. He shares his views on leadership development, coaching, and the growing impact of AI on legal services, reflecting on how the profession can evolve while staying focused on client relationships and meaningful work. Expect to Learn: * The inspiration behind starting gunnercooke and how it differs from traditional law firms. * Why creating a positive and empowering work culture is crucial to success in a law firm. * How AI is shaping the future of the legal profession, and the challenges it brings. * The importance of building relationships as a key to being a successful partner. * The value of coaching for lawyers and how it contributes to their long-term success. Episode Breakdown with Timestamps: * [00:00] – Teaser * [01:15] – Welcome & Introduction to Beyond Billables with Darryl Cooke * [09:44] – From Industry to Private Practice: Discovering Business and Private Equity * [13:03] – The Frustration That Built gunnercooke: Why Law Firms Are Badly Run * [18:48] – A Father's Final Push: The Trigger to Start Something New * [20:20] – Designing the Model: Freedom, Control, and the One Thing That's Different * [28:56] – Lateral Hiring at gunnercooke: The VTO and Coaching Before Day One * [33:47] – The Data on Coaching: Twice as Successful * [37:05] – Innovation as a Value: Why Law Firms Are Afraid of Change * [40:14] – AI at gunnercooke: Pricing, the "Co-Effect," and Developing Junior Lawyers * [48:54] – Giving Back: The Bookshops and the Fight Against Social Isolation * [52:21] – Advice to His Younger Self: Fail Quicker and Stay Positive * [54:10] – One Golden Rule: Build Relationships * [55:16] – Closing Remarks Connect with Darryl Cooke: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darryljcooke/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/darryljcooke/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/gunnercooke-llp/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/gunnercooke-llp/] * Company’s Website: https://gunnercooke.com/ [https://gunnercooke.com/] Connect with Stephen Rodney: * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] * Company’s Website: https://www.linkedin.com/company/booxkeepingfranchise/https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Connect with IntoGreat Coaching: * Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] * LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Listening Links: * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4 [https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4] * Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311] * Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8lhttps://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l [https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l]

US Law Firm Growth for Senior Lawyers to Lead the London Private Equity Market with Mike Francies

In this episode of Beyond Billables: Lessons from Top Law Firm Partners, host Stephen Rodney [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] speaks with Mike Francies [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-francies-7bb6b64/] about a remarkable legal career built across some of the world’s leading firms. From serving as Managing Partner at Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP for over two decades, to now being a Partner at Sullivan & Cromwell LLP [https://www.linkedin.com/company/sullivanandcromwell/], Mike reflects on leadership, private equity growth, and the evolution of global law firms. The conversation explores what it takes to build a top tier practice, lead through change, and stay relevant across different phases of a long career. Mike has worked on some of the largest private equity transactions in Europe, mentored generations of lawyers, and served in senior leadership roles. He is also Chair of the Board of Trustees at Power2 [https://www.linkedin.com/company/power2org/], reflecting his strong commitment to social mobility and mentoring beyond the legal profession. Expect to Learn 1. How private equity law evolved from a niche practice to a dominant force in the legal market 2. Why judgement and client relationships matter more than technical brilliance alone 3. What makes lateral hires succeed or fail in major law firms 4. The realities of leading a London office of a global US firm 5. How AI is reshaping private equity law and the future of associate development EPISODE BREAKDOWN WITH TIMESTAMPS 1. [00:00] – Teaser 2. [00:38] – Welcome & Introduction to Beyond Billables with Mike Francies 3. [04:37] – The Leap to Weil: Building a US Firm's London PE Practice 4. [12:37] – The Lateral Myth: Origination vs. Firm Clients 5. [18:09] – What Makes a Successful Partner? Hard Work, Judgement, and Playing Nice 6. [24:37] – Light-Touch Leadership: Managing Without a Capital 7. [30:05] – Measuring Success: The Holistic View Beyond Billables 8. [35:18] – AI in Private Equity: Efficiency, Clients, and the Future of Judgement 9. [43:11] – Highs and Lows: The FT Front Page Story 10. [49:46] – Advice to His Younger Self: Be Less Intense 11. [52:44] – One Golden Rule: Treat People as You Want to Be Treated 12. [53:33] – Closing Remarks Connect with Mike Francies: 1. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-francies-7bb6b64/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-francies-7bb6b64/] 2. Sullivan & Cromwell LLP LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/sullivanandcromwell/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/sullivanandcromwell/] 3. Sullivan & Cromwell LLP Website: https://www.sullcrom.com/ [https://www.sullcrom.com/] 4. Power2 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/power2org/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/power2org/] 5. Power2 Website: https://www.power2.org/ [https://www.power2.org/] Connect with Stephen Rodney: 1. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenmrodney/] 2. Company’s Website: https://www.linkedin.com/company/booxkeepingfranchise/https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] 3. Company’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Connect with IntoGreat Coaching: 1. Website: https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/ [https://www.intogreatcoaching.co.uk/] 2. LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/ [https://www.linkedin.com/company/intogreat-coaching/] Listening Links: 1. Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4 [https://open.spotify.com/show/5itRkdqnE9iUG7XuVXfur9?si=cd8ec898274442d9&nd=1&dlsi=6ff13118ea1a44b4] 2. Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311 [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beyond-billables-lessons-from-top-law-firm-partners/id1847593311] 3. Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8lhttps://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l [https://www.youtube.com/@StephenRodney-i8l]