Decoder with Nilay Patel

A jury says Meta and Google hurt a kid. What now?

Today, we’re talking about the landmark social media addiction trials that just resulted in two major verdicts against Big Tech — one in California against Meta and Google, and another in New Mexico against just Meta. These are complicated cases with some huge repercussions for both how these platforms work and the very nature of speech in America. So we’ve brought on two heavy hitters: my friend Casey Newton, founder and editor of Platformer and co-host of Hard Fork, as well as Verge senior policy reporter Lauren Feiner, who’s been covering these trials since the beginning.  Links:  * Meta & YouTube found negligent in social media addiction trial | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/policy/900654/meta-google-instagram-youtube-social-media-addiction-trial-kgm-jury-decision] * Meta misled users about its products’ safety, jury decides | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/policy/899910/meta-new-mexico-jury-verdict] * Meta’s legal defeat: a victory for kids, or a loss for everyone | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/policy/903006/meta-new-mexico-los-angeles-child-safety-trial-impact] * Can you have child safety and Section 230, too? | Platformer [https://www.platformer.news/social-media-trials-230-content-design/] * The terrible cost of infinite scroll | The New York Times [https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/26/opinion/big-tech-meta-youtube-lawsuit.html?unlocked_article_code=1.WFA.4xNQ.rhJN6Un_4_tJ&smid=nytcore-ios-share] * I watched grieving parents stare down Zuckerberg in court | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/policy/893930/social-media-addiction-trial-los-angeles-zuckerberg-instagram-youtube] * Section 230 turns 30 as it faces its biggest tests yet | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/policy/875300/section-230-turns-30-social-media-addiction-cases-sunset] * Congress considers blowing up internet law | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/policy/897106/section-230-reform-hearing-jawboning-social-media] * Sen. Rob Wyden: “Why the internet still needs Section 230” | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/policy/626326/ron-wyden-section-230-history-it-takes-chutzpah-excerpt] * How America turned against the First Amendment | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/23435358/first-amendment-free-speech-midterm-elections-courts-hypocrisy] Subscribe to The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/subscribe] to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Okta's CEO is betting big on AI agent identity

My guest today is Okta CEO Todd McKinnon. Okta is a platform that big companies use to manage security and identity across all the many apps and platforms their employees use. Most of us run into it as login management at work. SaaS companies like Okta are under a lot of pressure in the age of AI, which Todd even said on an earnings call he's "paranoid" about. But you'll also hear Todd say that for Okta specifically, there's also a world of opportunity as the very concept of a digital "identity" has to expand into things that aren't really people. Links:  * CEO ‘paranoid’ as vibe coders stir SaaSpocalypse fears | The Register [https://www.theregister.com/2026/03/05/okta_ceo_paranoid_as_vibe/] * $300B evaporated. The SaaSpocalypse has begun | Forbes [https://www.forbes.com/sites/donmuir/2026/02/04/300-billion-evaporated-the-saaspocalypse-has-begun/] * How AI assistants are moving the security goalposts | Krebs on Security [https://krebsonsecurity.com/2026/03/how-ai-assistants-are-moving-the-security-goalposts/] * What everyone’s missing about AI and development | CRN [https://www.crn.com/news/ai/2025/okta-ceo-on-what-everyone-s-missing-about-ai-and-software-development?itc=refresh] * Agents run amok: Identity lessons from Moltbook’s experiment | Okta [https://www.okta.com/newsroom/articles/agents-run-amok--identity-lessons-from-moltbook-s-ai-experiment/] * Breakup of IBM is Antitrust goal (1972) | New York Times [https://www.nytimes.com/1972/10/17/archives/breakup-of-ibm-is-antitrust-goal.html] Subscribe to The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/subscribe] to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Everyone hates Ticketmaster. Why'd Trump go easy on them?

Today, we’re talking about the major antitrust lawsuit against Ticketmaster parent company Live Nation, and what it might mean for antitrust and competition law in general now that the Trump DOJ has decided to settle its part of the case — even as several states including California, New York, and Texas carry on.  To break it all down, I’m joined by Verge senior policy reporter Lauren Feiner. Lauren’s our resident court expert, and she’s been chronicling this trial from the beginning. Links:  * States’ anti-monopoly case against Live Nation continues | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/policy/894851/states-live-nation-monopoly-trial] * The Live Nation trial restarts with a ‘velvet hammer’ | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/policy/895778/live-nation-ticketmaster-states-trial-continues] * Live Nation settles government antitrust suit | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/policy/891379/live-nation-antitrust-settlement-ticketmaster] * The Live Nation settlement has industry insiders baffled | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/policy/893272/live-nation-ticketmaster-doj-settlement-states] * Listen to Live Nation CEO’s alleged threats to a concert venue | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/policy/892558/live-nation-ceo-michael-rapino-barclays-center-john-abbamondi-ticketmaster-call-trial] * The threats and bare-knuckle tactics of MAGA’s top antitrust fixer | WSJ [https://www.wsj.com/us-news/law/lobbyists-antitrust-trump-davis-f6a02e04] * The Trump admin just gave Live Nation the gift of a lifetime | NYT [https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/17/opinion/trump-administration-music-fans-kid-rock.html] * How Live Nation allegedly terrorized the concert industry | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/report/891241/live-nation-ticketmaster-week-one-jury-trial] * The US government is trying to break up Ticketmaster | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/23/24163083/live-nation-ticketmaster-doj-monopoly-lawsuit-break-up] (2024) * Taylor Swift vs. Ronald Reagan: the Ticketmaster story | Decoder [https://www.theverge.com/23645057/taylor-swift-ticketmaster-eras-tour-beyonce-antitrust-monopoly-reagan-senate-hearing-congress] (2023) Subscribe to The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/subscribe] to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Confronting the CEO of the AI company that impersonated me

Today, I’m talking with Shishir Mehrotra, the CEO of Superhuman, the company formerly known as Grammarly, which is still its flagship product. Back in August, Grammarly shipped a feature called Expert Review, which allowed you to get writing suggestions from AI-cloned “experts,” and recently, reporters at The Verge and other outlets discovered that those experts included me, among many others.  No one ever asked permission to use our names this way, and a lot of reporters were outraged by this. To Shishir’s credit, he did not cancel our interview and he came on and stuck it out. This conversation got tense at times, and it’s clear we disagree about how extractive AI feels for people. There’s a lot in this one, and I’m excited to hear what you think. Read the full interview transcript on The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/podcast/898715/superhuman-grammarly-expert-review-shishir-mehrotra-interview-ai-impersonation]. Links: * Why I’m suing Grammarly | New York Times [https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/13/opinion/ai-doppelganger-deepfake-grammarly.html] * Grammarly will stop using identities without permission | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/893270/grammarly-ai-expert-review-disabled] * Grammarly to keep using writer identities unless they opt out | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/tech/891822/grammarly-superhuman-expert-review-names-without-permission-opt-out-email] * Grammarly turned me into an AI editor and I hate it | Platformer [https://www.platformer.news/grammarly-expert-review-reviewed/] * Grammarly is using our identities without permission | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/ai-artificial-intelligence/890921/grammarly-ai-expert-reviews] * Grammarly is changing its name to Superhuman | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/news/808472/grammarly-superhuman-ai-rebrand-relaunch] * Grammarly wants to become an ‘AI productivity platform’ | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/news/696056/grammarly-acquires-superhuman-email-app-ai-platform] * Viacom v. YouTube, 2007 | Electronic Frontier Foundation [https://www.eff.org/cases/viacom-v-youtube] Subscribe to The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/subscribe] to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]

Paramount's $110 billion Warner Bros. gamble

Today, let’s talk about the big Paramount-Warner Bros. Discovery merger. Right now, Paramount head David Ellison is very much acting like he’s over the finish line after outbidding Netflix, which walked away after what seemed like a done deal.  Back in January, I asked Puck’s Julia Alexander to walk me through Netflix’s reasoning, and today I’m digging into Paramount’s with Rich Greenfield, a media and entertainment analyst and cofounder of research firm LightShed Partners. There’s a lot going on here, including the biggest question I’ve had throughout this entire saga: why would anyone want to buy Warner, which has basically killed every acquirer it’s had for the last quarter century? Links:  * David Ellison’s plan to compete with Netflix: Paramount+HBO | Rich Greenfield [https://lightshedtmt.com/2026/03/11/game-of-streams-david-ellisons-plan-to-compete-with-netflix-called-paramounthbo/] * The worst acquisition in history, again | Prof G Media [https://www.profgmedia.com/p/the-worst-acquisition-in-history] * David Zaslav gets the last laugh | THR [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/inside-the-ellison-empire-what-they-own/] * Warner Bros. Discovery agrees to Paramount merger | The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/entertainment/886478/warner-bros-discovery-paramount-merger-agreement] * Tech, TV, Movies & News: Ellisons on brink of colossal empire | NYT [https://www.nytimes.com/2026/02/27/business/media/tech-tv-movies-and-news-ellisons-on-brink-of-colossal-empire.html] * Pete Hegseth says ‘the sooner David Ellison’ buys CNN, ‘the better’ | NYT [https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/13/business/media/pete-hegseth-david-ellison-cnn.html] * Warner Bros CEO to pocket $887 million from Paramount deal | Reuters [https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulation/warner-bros-ceo-pocket-up-887-million-paramount-deal-2026-03-17/] Subscribe to The Verge [https://www.theverge.com/subscribe] to access the ad-free version of Decoder! Credits: Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.  The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices [https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices]