🔥 Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!

Episode #25 feat. Dave Kraybill

What happens when an academic who built his entire identity around achievement suffers a major heart attack, only to be found sitting in his hospital bed still frantically emailing his co-workers? In this twenty-fifth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Dave Kraybill for a profound conversation about his 2024 initiation at Aravaipa Canyon, Arizona. Dave, a retired agricultural economist who spent 11 years working in Africa, shares how a therapist’s simple recommendation led him to discover Illuman after years of treating his body like a machine and overworking to earn esteem. Dave reflects on his journey from a Mennonite farming community—where rhythm and drumming were viewed as "potentially evil"—to crossing the creek at Aravaipa and entering a completely different, deeply somatic world. He speaks movingly about overcoming performance anxiety during a grief ritual, finding a powerful metaphor in a resilient desert plant, and applying Richard Rohr's wisdom that "pain that is not transformed is transmitted". Whether you are struggling to stay present in your relationships or wondering if you should attend the Men's Rites or the Elder Rites, Dave’s wisdom provides a brilliant roadmap for the second half of life. Episode Highlights * Not Performance, But Prayer: How a single piece of instruction from a ritual leader shattered Dave's lifelong performance anxiety. * The Plant in the Rock: Discovering a beautiful metaphor for flourishing in impossible circumstances during his desert solitude. * The Hospital Wake-Up Call: Realizing his foundation was flawed when he immediately resumed working after a major cardiac event. * The "Glow": Returning to his men's group after the rites radiating an unexplainable, transformative energy. * Men's Rites vs. Elder Rites: Dave's practical counsel on how to discern which initiation experience is right for you based on your unresolved wounds. Links & Resources * Choosing Presence (Sponsor) [https://choosingpresence.org] * Practicing Presence App [https://choosingpresence.org/app] * Illuman MROP [https://illuman.org/mrop] * Adam's Return [https://amzn.to/3PzVESH] by Richard Rohr * Brian Mueller (Host) [https://brianmueller.com] * Aravaipa Canyon Ranch and Retreat Center [https://aravaiparanch.com/] Credits * First and foremost, thank you to Dave Kraybill for sharing his journey and his heart with us today. * Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996. * Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence. Music Credits: * Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll * Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

Episode #24 feat. Al Selder

What happens when a retired engineer sitting in the Arizona desert suddenly starts singing Doris Day, only to realize he's being called to help heal the brokenness of other men? In this twenty-fourth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Al Selder for an inspiring conversation about his 2005 initiation at a YMCA camp in Oracle, Arizona. Al shares how trusting the invitation of other men led him to one of the very first rites held outside of Ghost Ranch, where Weaver Richard Rohr guided him into a profound period of self-reflection. Al recounts a mystical vision of quaking leaves and running water he experienced in the desert—a vision that ultimately led the Arizona chapter to discover the sacred, liminal grounds of Aravaipa Canyon. He speaks about his transition from simply attending the rites to taking on the monumental task of running the kitchen for over 90 men, eventually becoming the chapter's convener. From the poignant "starfish story" of helping just one person, to the beautiful realization that his own adult son is now seeking out council circles, Al's story is a testament to the quiet, generational power of service. Episode Highlights * "Que Sera, Sera": Why a Doris Day song and the memory of his late father-in-law sparked a lifelong commitment to men's work. * The Vision of Aravaipa: A mysterious desert vision of running water that led to finding a sacred retreat space with a deep, complex history. * The Starfish Story: Remembering that you don't have to change the whole world—you just have to make a difference for the man standing in front of you. * Feeding the Brotherhood: The logistical feat of managing a kitchen and camp for 92 men in the middle of a remote canyon. * Generational Ripples: The joy of witnessing his son decide to start his own council circle after years of observing the work. Links & Resources * Choosing Presence (Sponsor) [https://choosingpresence.org] * Practicing Presence App [https://choosingpresence.org/app] * Illuman MROP [https://illuman.org/mrop] * Adam's Return [https://amzn.to/3PzVESH] by Richard Rohr * Brian Mueller (Host) [https://brianmueller.com] * Doris Day - Que Sera Sera [https://youtu.be/i9nWB5XifBI] * Aravaipa Canyon Ranch and Retreat Center [https://aravaiparanch.com/] Credits * First and foremost, thank you to Al Selder for sharing his journey and his heart with us today. * Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996. * Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence. Music Credits: * Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll * Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

Episode #23 feat. Mike Whitman

What happens when an arrogant, 60-year-old youth minister who thinks he has his spiritual life completely "figured out" arrives at the rites terrified and is forced to tear down his carefully constructed walls? In this twenty-third episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Mike Whitman for a deeply reflective conversation about his 2008 initiation at Pilgrim Park, Illinois. Mike shares how a master's class with former guest Bill McElroy led him to blindly say yes to an experience that left him questioning his decisions just four hours into the drive. Mike reflects on the terror of his first ritual, his instinct to constantly rebuild his emotional walls, and the miraculous softening that occurred when he unexpectedly stepped into a paternal role for two younger men. As an Enneagram Type One, Mike speaks with profound wisdom about asking God for "radical inner honesty," learning to accept his own imperfections, and finally dropping his lifelong "spousal spirituality" out of his head and into his heart. Whether you are a man hiding behind a mask or looking to soften your own sharp edges, Mike's story is an inspiring invitation to step into true vulnerability. Episode Highlights * The Arrogant Arrival: Thinking you have your spiritual life completely figured out, only to realize you are stuck behind your own masks. * Tearing Down Walls: The cyclical terror of having boundaries broken down in ritual, only to nervously rebuild them again. * The Enneagram One: How recognizing the "Perfectionist" mask softened a lifetime of harsh internal criticism and made him "a lot less negative". * Radical Inner Honesty: Stepping into the pain of recognizing personal dishonesty and mixed motives instead of escaping into an image. * Spousal Spirituality: Dropping a lifelong faith from the intellect down into the heart. Links & Resources * Choosing Presence (Sponsor) [https://choosingpresence.org] * Practicing Presence App [https://choosingpresence.org/app] * Illuman MROP [https://illuman.org/mrop] * Adam's Return [https://amzn.to/3PzVESH] by Richard Rohr * Brian Mueller (Host) [https://brianmueller.com] Credits * First and foremost, thank you to Mike Whitman for sharing his journey and his heart with us today. * Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996. * Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence. Music Credits: * Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll * Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

Episode #22 feat. Matthew Lyda

What happens when a "top-heavy" intellectual, whose marriage and worldview are crumbling, lies face down in a dry creek bed and finally lets his body do the weeping? In this twenty-second episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Matthew Lyda for a deeply moving conversation about his 2018 initiation at Pilgrim Park, Illinois. Matthew, a spiritual director from Spartanburg, South Carolina, shares how he arrived at the rites in the midst of the "full catastrophe"—navigating interrupted dreams of living overseas, a marriage left in ashes, and a 30-year religious paradigm shift that was losing its grip on his life. Episode Highlights * The Top-Heavy Stick Figure: Moving away from a life dominated by head-knowledge to recovering a deep trust in the body's wisdom. * The Dried Creek Bed: The visceral power of laying prostrate in nature and bypassing the thinking brain to release tears. * The Grandfather Ambush: Unloading 20 years of hidden grief and the mysterious synchronicity that prepared him for a real-life loss. * The 500-Year Rummage Sale: Navigating the terrifying freefall of a religious paradigm shift when deeply held beliefs stop working. * A Warning for Young Men: Matthew's reverse-psychology advice on why you absolutely shouldn't attend the rites if you aren't ready to be loved and transformed. Episode Specific Links Matthew Lyda: * Recover the Wild [https://www.recoverthewild.com] * The Center for Sexual and Relational Health [https://www.sexualrelationalcounseling.com/matthew-lyda] * Recover The Wild: Unfiltered Poems and Prayers [https://amzn.to/4u9lcFS] * Defeated by Great Waters: Where is the hope inside of impossible places? [https://amzn.to/4ni7EVT] Links & Resources * Choosing Presence (Sponsor) [https://choosingpresence.org] * Practicing Presence App [https://choosingpresence.org/app] * Illuman MROP [https://illuman.org/mrop] * Adam's Return [https://amzn.to/3PzVESH] by Richard Rohr * Brian Mueller (Host) [https://brianmueller.com] Credits * First and foremost, thank you to Matthew Lyda for sharing his journey and his heart with us today. * Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996. * Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence. Music Credits: * Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll * Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

Episode #21 feat. Matt Domyancic

What happens when an ex-SWAT officer and first-responder chaplain arrives at the rites, only to find that the hardest part is holding space for other men trying to "fix" him? In this twenty-first episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Matt Domyancic for an incredibly raw and unique conversation about his initiation in Big Bear, California. Matt shares his perspective as a high-alpha, former football player and cop who had already spent decades diving into psychoanalysis, silent retreats, and spiritual direction before arriving at the rites. Episode Highlights * The Helper's High: Why men need to trade their desire to "fix" others for an experience of mystery and awe. * The Myth of the Father Wound: Matt's experience of being pushed to manufacture trauma, and the beauty of honoring a good father. * True Inner Work: Why shooting guns, crawling in the mud, and doing cold plunges isn't the deeper spiritual work men actually need. * Butterflies in Formation: A powerful sports psychology lesson on jumping off the platform and embracing communal vulnerability. Episode Specific Links Matt Domyancic: * https://www.tacticalchaplain.com [https://www.tacticalchaplain.com] * https://www.instagram.com/thinbluelinespirituality [https://www.instagram.com/thinbluelinespirituality] * https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-domyancic-b7203b6 [https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-domyancic-b7203b6/] "Helping, Fixing or Serving?" by Rachel Naomi Remen, MD: * https://www.dailygood.org/story/218/helping-fixing-or-serving-rachel-naomi-remen-md [https://www.dailygood.org/story/218/helping-fixing-or-serving-rachel-naomi-remen-md] Links & Resources * Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org [https://choosingpresence.org] * Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app [https://choosingpresence.org/app] * Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop [https://illuman.org/mrop] * Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH [https://amzn.to/3PzVESH] * Brian Mueller (Host): https://brianmueller.com [https://brianmueller.com] Credits * First and foremost, thank you to Matt Domyancic for sharing his journey and his heart with us today. * Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996. * Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence. Music Credits: * Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll * Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams