The Long Walk Home

"Writing reveals us": Davin Malasarn on his debut novel

I met Davin Malasarn in 2018 when we were both enrolled in the Bennington Writing Seminars MFA program. I was there at his graduation reading, when he shared an excerpt from a novel-in-progress about a Thai-American boy named Ben who develops a mysterious health condition. Today, that novel, The Outer Country [https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-outer-country-davin-malasarn/1148002813;jsessionid=33296C6DB232028FDCEED274DEE55057.prodny_store01-atgap06?ean=9780593731659&st=AFF&2sid=Random%20House%20Inc_8373827_NA&sourceId=AFFRandom%20House%20Inc], exists as an object in the world—one you can buy at most bookstores and that the writer Justin Torres [https://justin-torres.com/] described as “a book of demons and a book of uncommon grace; an instant classic in the queer canon.” It’s a hell of a thing to witness. The book tells the story of a family. Far from their home in Phet Buri, Kamron and Siripon, along with Siripon’s sister Manda, are raising the American-born Ben in Los Angeles. Manda becomes something of a second mother to Ben—and, at a critical moment, makes a decision that alters the course of his life. When Ben is still just a small child, Manda sees him dancing with a blanket tied around his waist, leading her to conclude, consistent with her religious beliefs and prejudices, that the boy must be possessed by the spirit of a dead girl. She conspires with Kamron to arrange a Buddhist exorcism to rid Ben of the spirit—and to forever keep it a secret from Siripon. One afternoon while Siripon is at work, a Buddhist monk comes to perform the ceremony. For the decade that follows, Ben suffers from anxiety-induced illness, even as he can’t quite remember what happened to him. In a recent essay published in [https://people.com/davin-malasarn-conversion-therapy-essay-exclusive-11941580]People [https://people.com/davin-malasarn-conversion-therapy-essay-exclusive-11941580] magazine [https://people.com/davin-malasarn-conversion-therapy-essay-exclusive-11941580], Davin explains that what happens to Ben in the novel happened to him in real life: “The monk told me to lie down. He draped gauzy material over me. Then he performed a ceremony that involved chanting, sprinkling of Buddhist holy water and a paper doll that was later burned. We were in the dining room of my house, and my aunt and dad sat beside me, approving.” Davin, like Ben, wasn’t quite sure what had happened or why. But a “sense of terror” stayed with him for some time. Much of the coverage of this novel has focused on precisely this: the fact that the exorcism—the attempted conversion therapy—really happened. But it would be wrong to think of this novel as some kind of therapeutic exercise. What becomes clear in our conversation is that, for Davin, the desire to write is the thing, which he honors with a fierce commitment to his craft. In other words, he’s worked his ass off. That he drew from his own experience to create this shining and heartbreaking novel? Well, that’s just what the great writers figure out how to do. Davin is, indeed, a great writer, and he’s just getting started. One last thing: For those of us who try to write, it’s a blessing to have friends in the trenches with us—friends who remind us that the effort to sit in the chair and try to create something is worthwhile, all the contrary evidence in the world notwithstanding. Davin, you’re such a friend to me and to many. It’s your time, bro. Some topics we cover: * The Outer Country as an exercise in understanding difficult people * Davin’s feelings about having a novel in the world * The relationship between art and life * Davin’s literary influences * John Updike and the Rabbit novels * Ernest Hemingway * What writing reveals and obscures * MFA programs * Writing in community I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. The Long Walk Home is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Get full access to The Long Walk Home at billyglidden.substack.com/subscribe [https://billyglidden.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

"We choose hope."

Back in February, I attended a talk at New York Encounter, an annual cultural event in the heart of NYC. The talk was about the Catholic view on immigration law in the United States [https://www.newyorkencounter.org/2026-seeking-a-home], and it featured Mario Russell, the executive director of the Center for Migration Studies, who happens to be a very kind and brilliant man. In the talk, Mario described how the failures of the American immigration system had led to a “moral convulsion” across the country—and he offered thoughts on how people of faith generally and Catholics in particular are called to service and moral witness in this moment. I was pretty blown away by his insights, and I wanted to hear more. So, that’s the conversation I bring you today. Some of the topics Mario and I cover include: * His journey into this work * The current state of the immigration debate in the U.S. * Fact versus narrative on immigration * Deportation as a proxy for the debate about immigration as a whole * Immigration and the Catholic imagination * Americans’ contradictory views on immigration * Hope in this Lenten season There are many ways to think about immigration policy in this country. As a matter of border management. As an economic question. As a national security concern. But for Mario and the organization he leads, it all comes back to the human person—how we think about our obligations to our fellow human beings. On that point, I’d like to offer, as a way of framing the conversation you’re about to hear, a passage from an old favorite of mine, Thomas Merton. Merton describes an epiphany he had while on a trip outside the monastery where he lived. In Louisville, at the corner of Fourth and Walnut, in the center of the shopping district, I was suddenly overwhelmed with the realization that I loved all those people, that they were mine and I theirs, that we could not be alien to one another even though we were total strangers… I have the immense joy of being a man, a member of the race in which God Himself became incarnate. As if the sorrows and stupidities of the human condition could overwhelm me, now I realize what we all are. And if only everybody could realize this! But it cannot be explained. There is no way of telling people that they are all walking around shining like the sun. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did. The Center for Migration Studies of New York [https://cmsny.org/about/] (CMS) is a think tank and an educational institute devoted to the study of international migration, to the promotion of understanding between immigrants and receiving communities, and to public policies that safeguard the dignity and rights of migrants, refugees, and newcomers. Get full access to The Long Walk Home at billyglidden.substack.com/subscribe [https://billyglidden.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

"This is certainly unprecedented."

Today I’m bringing you a conversation I’ve been trying to have for some time. My friend Billy Peard lives in South Tucson, Arizona, where his law practice serves some of the most vulnerable members of our society. When I met him back in 2014, his main legal focus was on the rights of workers — farm workers, especially — and the rights of immigrants. When it comes to immigration law, Billy is the most knowledgeable person I know, having spent years as a staff attorney for Community Legal Aid in Springfield, Massachusetts, and then as an immigration lawyer for the ACLU in Arizona. I reached out to Billy because I hoped he could help me understand how we’ve arrived at this moment. I think we can all agree—no matter your personal feelings about ICE or a policy of mass deportation—that something feels fundamentally different in our country today. We’re not used to this. We’re not used to stories about ICE agents detaining five-year-old kids. We’re not used to reports of ICE agents harassing local police officers [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRURdXNW3A4]. We’re not used to seeing our fellow citizens mobilizing to alert their neighbors to the presence of ICE agents in the community. We’re certainly not used to seeing an American citizen shot and killed by an ICE agent while trying to drive away. How do we account for this? Is the second Trump administration doing anything that’s actually all that different from what came before? Or are we just getting swept up in a media-induced hysteria? I asked Billy about all this and more. As you listen, you may notice that the word “unprecedented” is used more than once. Billy believes that ICE’s conduct under this current administration is indeed unprecedented—and very likely unconstitutional. But to understand exactly how this moment is unprecedented, it’s important to understand how we got here, and Billy very generously helps us do that. Some topics we cover: * Billy’s journey into immigration law * SB 1070, the Arizona “show your papers” law, passed in 2010, which galvanized the left and inspired Billy to get involved * Immigration law during Trump’s first term * Biden immigration policy: Was it an open border? * America’s complicated—and often contradictory—relationship to immigration * Immigration enforcement under Trump 2.0 * Is ICE only targeting serious criminals? If not, is this what people thought they were voting for? * What is due process and why should Americans care about it? * The effectiveness of nonviolent civil disobedience A note on the recording: Billy did the whole interview while watching his two-year-old daughter Milena. If you notice an occasional awkward cut, it’s because Billy got up to go get her a snack or find another coloring book for her. You’ll also have the privilege of hearing from the kiddo directly. Big thanks to Billy—and to Milena for letting me borrow her dad’s attention for a little while. Get full access to The Long Walk Home at billyglidden.substack.com/subscribe [https://billyglidden.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Peter Ames Carlin on the Making of Born to Run

Happy new year. One highlight from 2025 was getting to interview Peter Ames Carlin about his new book, Tonight in Jungleland [https://bookshop.org/p/books/tonight-in-jungleland-the-making-of-born-to-run-peter-ames-carlin/5984a2bbcc883737?ean=9780385551533&next=t&next=t&affiliate=97892], which details the making of Bruce Springsteen’s Born to Run. An edited transcript of that interview [https://kevinkoczwara.substack.com/cp/172015097] was published on my friend Kevin Koczwara’s substack, A Fan’s Notes. I love his substack, and I think you should subscribe to it. He interviews a lot of authors and every once in a while publishes his own long-form pieces, as he did recently with a deep dive into his love of Denis Johnson [https://kevinkoczwara.substack.com/p/the-humanity-of-denis-johnson]. To kick off the new year, I’ve decided to share the full audio of my Peter Ames Carlin interview. Some of you have asked about it, so here you go. Peter’s a really nice guy, and I greatly appreciated his time. You can see my original write-up about the book below. Among Bruce Springsteen diehards, the story of his third album is familiar—an essential part of the legend. In his tiny corner of the universe, the scrawny kid from Jersey had earned a reputation as a magnetic, must-be-seen-to-be-believed frontman and guitar player. On the strength of his songwriting, he’d signed with Columbia Records and was hailed as the next big thing. Maybe even the next Bob Dylan! (The real Bob Dylan was still in his 30s at the time.) But the first two albums didn’t sell. Changes were made uptown. Clive Davis, one of Bruce’s biggest backers at Columbia, left the label. The executives who remained weren’t really interested. They agreed to give him the money to record one song, and if that song was good enough to be a single, then they’d let him and the band back in the studio for a third album. But that was a big “if.” The song he wrote would also give the album its name: “Born to Run.” Cast in the light of the fifty years that followed—fifty years that have included life-changing concerts, culture-defining albums, presidential audiences, twenty-one Grammys, an Oscar, a Tony, a Golden Globe—it can be hard to really grasp how close it all came to not happening. With his new book, Tonight in Jungleland: The Making of Born to Run [https://bookshop.org/a/97892/9780385551533], Peter Ames Carlin sets out to show us. But beneath the riveting human drama—managers making frantic calls, executives only half-listening to the music, skeptics becoming converts, and Springsteen himself, upon hearing the finished record, threatening to scrap the whole damn thing—Carlin tries to answer the question at the heart of the story: How did it all get so great? There’s no denying that Born to Run represented a giant leap forward in Springsteen’s writing. But how? Was it the pressure? A natural progression in his songwriting? The partnership of the writer-turned-producer-and-confidant Jon Landau? The doggedness of his manager Mike Appel? The engineering of Jimmy Iovine? For Carlin, it’s all of these answers and more. But it also ultimately comes down to one man’s vision and his determination, bordering on madness, to realize it. That question, the one that animates the book—How did it all get so great?—appears in the book’s prologue, spoken to Carlin by Charley Cross. Cross was a great chronicler of the life and work of Bruce Springsteen and the founder of the beloved Backstreets [https://variety.com/2023/music/news/bruce-springsteen-fanzine-backstreets-shut-down-1235512607/] magazine [https://variety.com/2023/music/news/bruce-springsteen-fanzine-backstreets-shut-down-1235512607/], which covered all things Springsteen for more than four decades. Cross died just a week after posing this question. The book is dedicated to him. This feels significant. Springsteen considers his career one long conversation with his audience, and that conversation has come to include all of us who have been graced with this connection to his work. We talk to each other; we compare notes. I know people who don’t get it, and I have a curse of recalling every critical word anyone has ever spoken about Springsteen in my presence. But for those of who do get it—who feel it and live it every day—Springsteen’s artistry reaches a very deep place. Carlin is such a person and such a writer. He is, before he is anything, a fan, a guy who knows what it means to learn more from a three-minute record than we ever learned in school. Opening the book with a conversation with another person so graced is a fitting tribute, and appropriate to the book’s subject. Not to presume, but I believe Charley Cross would be proud of the result. Get full access to The Long Walk Home at billyglidden.substack.com/subscribe [https://billyglidden.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Preparing the Way

Sister Chris Clark of Holyoke, Massachusetts, has been a friend for years. When it comes to religious matters, religious questions, or anything spiritual, she’s one of my absolute favorite thinkers. She’s also one of my favorite human beings. Chris made her vows as a member of the Daughters of the Heart of Mary [https://www.dhm.org/] in February 2011. We met when I was just a twenty-two-year-old kid, and I had questions. She didn’t have answers, necessarily; or at least she didn’t claim to. But she did have a way of accompanying me in my questioning, in my seeking. Looking back, it all feels providential. I was setting up an event at DeCicé Hall [https://decicehall.org/], a community center in Holyoke. Chris, who worked there, came in to help me set up. And then we sat and talked. For me, Chris is someone who makes belief in God credible. Her practice of hospitality makes people feel more at home in themselves and better able to respond to the promptings of God, of life, or what Chris sometimes calls “the mysterious center of things,” in our lives. So, to mark this holiday season, and Advent in particular, I wanted to talk to her again. I figured it would help me, and I hoped it might help you, too. Some topics we cover: * Chris’s spiritual journey * Dysfunctional families and the healing possibilities of the ACA program * The human desire to be seen, known, and understood * The meaning of being a sister * Advent as a time of active hope * The Christmas story and its resonance today—in western MA and beyond * Was the Holy Family a migrant family? * Being surprised by grace * Finding goodness in the mess of life * Christmas memories from Chris’s marriage * Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker I know the holidays can be a rough time for folks. I hope this conversation brings a little light into your season and draws you closer to that mysterious center. Let us prepare the way. The Long Walk Home is a reader-supported publication. If you enjoy my work, consider becoming a subscriber. The song that plays out the episode is “St. Christopher’s Inn,” written and performed by my friend Matt Butler. The song takes its name and inspiration from St. Christopher’s Inn, a residential treatment facility in Garrison, New York, and a ministry of the Franciscan Friars of the Atonement. At St. Christopher’s, no one is ever turned away because of race, religion, or ability to pay. Matt has spent a lot of time at St. Christopher’s, sharing the gift of his music with people in recovery. As I listened to this song the other night, I realized that it was a perfect song for Advent: a song of waiting and hoping, of preparing the way, of finding grace within the mess of our human condition. Big thanks to Matt for the song, and for so much else. You can hear this song and the rest of Matt’s catalogue on Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/track/4ZxZpkQxnkfl307WBe6j0c] and Apple Music [https://music.apple.com/us/album/st-christophers-inn-single/1681528715]. And if you’re interested in supporting the ministry at St. Christopher’s, you can make a donation here [https://stchristophersinn-graymoor.org/support-recovery/donate/]. “But on the way home tonight, you wish you’d picked him up, held him a bit. Just held him, very close to your heart, his cheek by the hollow of your shoulder, full of sleep. As if it were you who could, somehow, save him. For the moment not caring who you’re supposed to be registered as. For the moment, anyway, no longer who the Caesars say you are.” — Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow Get full access to The Long Walk Home at billyglidden.substack.com/subscribe [https://billyglidden.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]