The Other Side of Things

The Other Side of Things (E16) Music for People with Mary Knysh

00:00 Opening Perspective 00:37 Meet Mary Knysh 03:33 What Is Music for People 06:32 Presence Over Performance 10:52 40th Anniversary of Music for People 14:40 Music Came Before Language 18:46 Sound as the Language of the Soul 24:33 Culture vs Nature and Music 32:06 Awe and Neuroplasticity 36:55 Mary's Listening Tree Framework 42:57 Heart Note and Coherence 48:40 Invitation to Join Art of Improvisation (AOI) 52:34 Healing Through Improvisation 59:18 David Darlings Legacy and Where to Find Us Dr. Michael DeMaria welcomes internationally recognized music educator and facilitator Mary Knysh for a heartfelt conversation about Music for People, improvisation, deep listening, creativity, and reconnecting with music as an innate part of being human. Mary shares how her journey with David Darling’s work led to decades of teaching and creating safe, welcoming spaces where anyone—musician or not—can discover their sound. This episode honors the 40th anniversary of Music for People and explores David Darling’s legacy which has deeply impacted Michael and Mary's life, the power of musical play, sound as communication, community-building, neuroplasticity, and the upcoming week long Art of Improvisation (AOI) gathering at Hamilton College in Clinton, New York, July 26–31, 2026. More about Mary: Mary E. Knysh is an internationally recognized music educator, author, performer, and facilitator who has spent more than three decades helping people discover that music is not just something we do—it is part of who we are. As Director of the Musicianship and Leadership Program for Music for People and founder of Rhythmic Connections, Mary has inspired educators, musicians, healthcare professionals, and community leaders around the world through the transformative power of improvisation, rhythm, and creative play. An Orff Schulwerk clinician, professional musician, recording artist, and international teaching artist, Mary presents workshops, conference sessions, and facilitator trainings throughout the United States, Europe, and beyond. She is the recipient of the 2022 New Jersey Governor's Award for Excellence in Arts Education and is the author of numerous publications, including Drum Circles 101. Whether working with preschool children, classroom teachers, professional musicians, or people who have never considered themselves "musical," Mary's passion is creating welcoming spaces where every person can experience the joy of making music, building community, and discovering their own creative voice. Learn more about Mary's work: https://music4wellness.com Learn more about Music for People: https://www.musicforpeople.org If this conversation resonates, please like, subscribe, share, and leave a comment about what improvisation means to you. To find out more about Michael's work: https://michaeldemaria.com/

The Other Side of Things (E15) Rolfing with Sharalee Hoelscher #healing #rolfing #ontogenesis

00:00 Welcome to the Show 00:42 Meet Sharalee Hoelscher 02:58 Michael’s Rolfing Journey 04:03 What Rolfing Really Is 08:32 Gravity as Therapist 12:38 Posture Shapes Psyche 15:29 Gliding and the Midline 22:16 Connective Tissue Explained 27:11 Feeling Fascia in Motion 29:55 Embryology and Forming Life 34:28 Bringing It Back to Practice 34:58 Gravity Heals Through Movement 35:36 Embryology Movement Creates Form 38:11  Unfolding and Unfurling Force Fields 43:07 Adult Body Homeostasis And Posture 45:27 Walking Experiments With Gravity 48:22 Beyond The Machine Model 52:58 Awareness Styles And Learning 57:24 Movement Paths And Feldenkrais 01:03:22 Final Thanks I'm thrilled to have Sharalee on the show today. I've went through a Rolfing series with her and was fortunate to work with her prior to her retiring this year.  Her depth of knowledge and commitment to the true origins of Ida Rolf's work truly impressed me and I have continued to reap benefits from my work with her.   A little more about this episode: In this episode, Dr. Michael DeMaria welcomes retired Rolfer and craniosacral therapist Sharalee Hoelscher for a profound exploration of Rolfing’s deeper mystery — how movement shapes the self. Together they trace the lineage of Ida Rolf’s work, connecting gravity, fascia, and structural integration to emotional and spiritual transformation. Sharalee shares insights from decades of practice, explaining how connective tissue acts as a continuous inner skin that organizes the body’s parts, and how gravity itself becomes the therapist when the body finds balance around its midline. They discuss embryology, ontogenesis, and Erich Blechschmidt’s revolutionary idea that movement precedes structure, revealing how this principle continues throughout life as we evolve through new gestures and forms. Listeners will discover how posture shapes psyche, how trauma transforms through alignment, and how practices like Feldenkrais, yoga, Pilates, dance, and Rolf Movement help sustain the body’s living intelligence. Keywords: Rolfing, Structural Integration, Fascia, Gravity as Therapist, Embryology, Movement Therapy, Somatic Healing, Trauma Transformation, Feldenkrais, Craniosacral Therapy, Ida Rolf, Body Alignment, Ontogenesis, Somatic Awareness, Sharalee Hoelscher, Michael DeMaria Sharalee's Listing on Rolf.org: https://mms.rolf.org/members/directory/ROLF_profile.php?mid=1245928883 Michael's website: https://michaeldemaria.com/

The Other Side of Things (E14) Sacred 7 with Andrew Ecker #drumming #healing #shamanichealing

0:00 Welcome to the Show 00:36 Meet Andrew Ecker 02:03 Ancestry and Roots 03:49 Life Assignment and Loss 04:58 Gritty Healing Work 06:46 Host Tribute and Sacred Seven 09:05 Opening Prayer 13:19 Relational Spirituality Defined 14:00 From Religion to Red Road 18:22 Trauma Addiction and Liberation 27:15 Energy and Emotional Density 28:56 Drumming in Memory Care 33:00 Displacement and Manifestation 35:29 Trauma Informed Sound Medicine 39:06 Spirituality Over Substances 39:35 Turning Pain Into Practice 40:40 Healthcare Pushback And Support 42:15 Scaling Drum Circle Impact 43:27 Energy Work With Clinicians 45:38 Gong Moment Breakthrough 47:31 Why Research Lags 50:34 Funding A Drumming Study 51:35 Connection Replaces Addiction 53:30 March Retreat Details 54:35 Congo Square And Inclusion 57:22 Transformation Story And Invite 01:00:23 Sacred Seven And Grounding 01:01:49 Blessing And Closing Prayer The Other Side of Things Podcast A Soulversation with Andrew Ecker Recovery • Sacred 7 • Drumming Sounds • Rhythm as Medicine • Living a Prayed Life In this deeply personal and powerful conversation, I sit down with healer, recovery guide, and founder of Drumming Sounds, Andrew Ecker. Andrew shares his journey through addiction and recovery, revealing the deeper spiritual hunger beneath substance use and the sacred discipline that reshaped his life. We explore sobriety not as abstinence alone, but as initiation — as an ordeal that strips away illusion and invites us into prayer, service, and presence. We also dive into Andrew’s Sacred 7 practice, a relational prayer rooted in the seven directions, and how rhythm and intentional drumming restore connection to ancestors, land, body, and spirit. Andrew introduces his ancestry and lived experience with generational incarceration, substance use disorder, and family loss, and describes bringing drumming into memory care, psychiatric units, prisons, and treatment centers as an evidence-based, trauma-informed practice that emphasizes permission, empathy, and connection. The conversation focuses on “relational spirituality,” learning intimacy and boundaries with mental health experiences, and using drumming, breathwork, guided imagery, and sound medicine to displace “energies of sickness” and support healing. Andrew calls for more research funding for group drumming, shares outcomes from clinical and bereavement contexts, and promotes a March 13–16 retreat-style drumming training in Scottsdale plus his book Sacred Seven and coaching. Andrew closes our conversation with a spoken prayer — a reminder that healing is not something we do alone, but something we remember together. If this conversation moves you, consider subscribing and sharing it with someone who may need to hear it. Andrew's Resources and Links: Drumming Sounds https://drummingsounds.com Sacred 7 Community & Training https://thesacredseven.com/ Andrew’s Book – The Sacred 7: A Path to Finding the Wholeness of Self-Identity https://www.amazon.com/Sacred-path-finding-wholeness-self-identity/dp/1090133642?ref_=ast_author_dp The Sacred 7 explores relational spirituality, identity, and healing rooted in earth-based traditions and community practice. Michael's resources and links:  Official Website https://michaelbrantdemaria.com Books https://michaeldemaria.com/books/ Music & Albums https://michaelbrantdemaria.com/music Films https://michaeldemaria.com/ontos-films/ YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@MichaelBrantDeMaria

The Other Side of Things (E13) Wild Yoga with Rebecca Wildbear

00:00 Introduction to The Other Side of Things 00:40 Welcoming the Guest: Rebecca Wild Bear 01:31 Rebecca's Background and Work 03:27 The Importance of Wilderness Therapy 06:29 Challenges of Modern Culture and Soul Work 11:56 Writing and Living Wild Yoga 16:45 Personal Stories and Vulnerabilities 30:03 The Concept of Wild Yoga 35:19 Embracing Vulnerability 35:52 The Never-Ending Journey of Healing 37:13 Love Warrior vs. Heart Warrior 38:02 The Power of Love and Ferocity 44:07 Feral Female Ferocity 50:04 The Role of Anger and Boundaries 01:02:32 The Journey of Braveheart 01:05:18 Final Thoughts and Contact Information ✨ The Other Side of Things Podcast | Guest: Rebecca Wildbear ✨ In this episode, I’m joined by my dear friend of over a decade, Rebecca Wildbear—author of Wild Yoga: A Practice of Initiation, Veneration, and Advocacy for the Earth. It was such a joy to finally sit down and reconnect with her for this conversation. Rebecca is a nature-based soul guide, vision fast guide with Animas Valley Institute, and former wilderness therapy facilitator with Open Sky. Her life’s work is devoted to helping people listen deeply to the mysteries of the Earth, their dreams, and their souls. Together we explore how Rebecca’s approach to wild yoga—a blend of yoga, deep imagination, and nature connection—offers a paradigm shift in how we understand human development, especially through the lens of nature-based soul initiation. Drawing on our shared apprenticeship with Bill Plotkin and the Animas Valley Institute, we discuss: 🌿 How wild yoga is different from traditional yoga 🌿 The role of wilderness in soul initiation and human maturation 🌿 Alternative ways of looking at what is often called “mental illness,” addiction, or psychosis 🌿 How nature can guide healing, wholeness, and purpose 🌿 Why adults who never felt at home in mainstream culture may still find their soul initiation later in life Rebecca’s book Wild Yoga is both a practice and an invitation—a call to live in deeper conversation with the Earth and with the soul’s longing. 🔗 Learn more about Rebecca Wildbear and her work: https://www.rebeccawildbear.com 📖 Get Wild Yoga: https://www.amazon.com/Wild-Yoga-Practice-Initiation-Veneration/dp/160868797X If you enjoy this conversation, please like, share, and subscribe for more soulful dialogues on The Other Side of Things. Michael's website:  www.michaeldemaria.com

The Other Side of Things (E12) Jung and Shamanism with C. Michael Smith, Ph.D.

00:00 Introduction 01:15 Who is C. Michael Smith? 04:59 What is the Dialogic Method for Jung and Shamanism in Michael's work. 08:23 The ancient history behind understanding the world of Spirit 09:00 Jung's description of an archetypal possession and the need for exorcism 12:39 How Michael was drawn to this deep work of Jung and Shamanism  14:02 Jung's Memories, Dreams and Reflections and Mircea Eliade's work on Shamanism 15:14 Michael's person connection to the Spirit World/Collective Unconscious 16:28 Michael's encounter with the Numinous  17:04 Michael's Jungian Analyst told him he needed to find a shamanic teacher 18:18 His vision quest and finding his Daemon/Guardian Spirit and Guide 20:30 His first work with serious mental illness/archetypal possession 21:43 Shamanism as an archaic Depth Psychology  22:30 Jung, "If I knew about Shamanism I wouldn't have spent so much time with alchemy." 25:30 Core Analysis and Psycho Shamanism in Michael's work. 26:12 The Psyche is a porous open system - connected to all reality which is a blessing and curse. 27:23 How to stay curious, compassionate, and open to these psychic numinous realities/entities. 28:30 The power of relationship, music, presence, symbol, chant, colorful ceremony in this work. 30:06 Michael's work with exorcism with severe cases, which he uses very rarely. 33:45 When Michael works with Severe Mental Illness uses greater family and psychiatric support. 35:00 Example of someone who was archetypally possessed and how he did an exorcism. 40:17 How do we help people shamanically swim in these waters instead of psychotically drowning. 41:30 "I'm in the business of working with the impossible, what other people say can't be healed." 42:30 One particularly powerful case of healing deep trauma through multiple de-possessions.  43:36 Dealing with deep ancestral trauma inter-generationally.   45:16 In Internal Family Systems you can have a Legacy Burden and Unattached Burden.   47:09 Michael's take on Post-Modern Shamanism vs. Traditional Shamanism. 50:13 Michael's take on being a reconstructive Post-Modernist. 51:48 Michael's powerful use of shamanic work with a cancer patient. 56:19 Consciousness is fundamental as a shift from our tradition of materialistic reductionism. 58:52 Post-modern shamanism is updating itself with the newest findings in neuroscience and physics. 1:01:00 An N of 1 matters. 1:02:00 Advaita Vedanta and letting go of any attachment to any objects. 1:03:00 Our Avatar Bodies... 1:04:27 Eternity is in love with the productions of time. 1:06:00 Michael's sharing of Jung's story of the woman who lived on the moon and how he see's his own work with the defenses of the psyche.  1:09:39 A shamanic correction to Jung's work - the extra step of ceremony - soul retrieval - inviting in what was giving up - not just extraction/de-possession/exorcism, but also welcoming back the essence of what was displaced.  1:11:00 Your defense system is like a psychic immune system - those young parts of us.  1:13:00 The being of the shamanic healer must live and respond from your open center.  1:14:30 The center ultimately IS the heart.  1:17:00 Jung was also a phenomenologist - and his sense of the divine was numinous. 1:20:00 The most powerful place to stand and for protection and healing is the heart... In this profound episode, I sit down with clinical psychologist, medical anthropologist, and author C. Michael Smith, a world-renowned expert in Jungian psychology and shamanic healing. Together, we explore the fertile intersection of Jung’s depth psychology and indigenous shamanic traditions — both of which view healing as a soul-centered, symbolic, and relational process. We dive into: ✨ How Jung's concept of the wounded healer echoes the shamanic initiation ✨ The parallels between soul retrieval and Jungian individuation ✨ The role of altered states, dreams, and active imagination in accessing inner wisdom ✨ The sacred importance of ritual, symbol, and myth in both systems ✨ How trauma, possession, and spiritual crisis are addressed in traditional vs. modern cultures ✨ And why reconnecting with the soul — personally and culturally — is more vital than ever C. Michael Smith brings a rare integration of scholarship and lived experience. His seminal book Jung and Shamanism in Dialogue has influenced therapists, healers, and seekers worldwide. This is a rich, timely conversation for anyone called to the deeper healing path, whether through psychotherapy, ceremony, or inner exploration. Michael's book on Jung and Shamanism:  https://www.amazon.com/Jung-Shamanism-Dialogue-Retrieving-Sacred-ebook/dp/B00I4GL9OI  Michael's website: https://crowsnestshamanism.com/blog/ Michael DeMaria's website:  https://michaeldemaria.com/ #JungAndShamanism #CMichaelSmith #TheOtherSideOfThings #SoulHealing #WoundedHealer #DepthPsychology #ShamanicHealing