Church and Main

Prophets, Politicians, and Partisans with Ryan Self | Episode 283

In an era of social media influencers and viral hot takes, the word "prophetic" gets thrown around constantly — but usually it just means "someone saying things I agree with."  Dennis Sanders sits down with writer and communications professional Ryan Self to dig into what the biblical prophets actually looked like, and why today's version often falls dangerously short. Ryan, who writes the Substack Ryan's Boring Book Club, recently published a two-part series — Preachers, Prophets, and Politicians — examining how the religious left and right are both falling into the same trap: mistaking tribal partisanship for genuine moral courage. From megachurch pastors building empires on outrage clicks, to progressive Christian influencers spreading election conspiracies, to politicians wrapping their campaigns in the language of the gospel, Dennis and Ryan explore how audience capture, social media incentives, and the hunger for a platform are quietly eroding the church's credibility. Shownotes: Preachers, Prophets and Politicians (Part 1) [https://ryanclarkself.substack.com/p/preachers-prophets-and-politicians] Preachers, Prophets and Politicians (Part Two) [https://ryanclarkself.substack.com/p/preachers-prophets-and-politicians-835] Don't make Colbert a free speech martyr [https://ryanclarkself.substack.com/p/dont-make-colbert-a-free-speech-martyr] Related Episodes: LGBTQ Allies and Effective Inclusion with Ryan Self | Episode 243 [https://churchandmain.org/episode/lgbtq-allies-and-effective-inclusion-with-ryan-self-episode-243]   Donate to Church and Main [https://buymeacoffee.com/dennislsanders] Church and Main Substack [https://churchandmain.substack.com/] Join the Church and Main Email List [https://mailchi.mp/fbfac340e2ea/churchandmain] Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/churchandmain] | Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/churchandmainpod/] | Threads [https://www.threads.net/@churchandmainpod] | Twitter [https://x.com/churchandmain] | Website [https://churchandmain.org/] | YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@churchmainpodcast]

The Problem With "Christian Nationalism" with Heath Carter | Episode 282

The term "Christian nationalism" is everywhere — but is it actually helping us understand our political moment, or making things worse? Princeton Theological Seminary professor Heath Carter joins host Dennis to make a provocative case: the term has become so broad and loosely applied that it's lost its usefulness, and may be deepening the very polarization it aims to diagnose. Carter argues that while genuinely dangerous, illiberal movements exist — think theocrats actively working to undermine pluralistic democracy — the label too often gets applied to any Christian who voted for Trump. That kind of broad brush lets mainline Protestants off the hook for their own role in America's political story, while alienating the very voters the left needs to win back. The conversation ranges from the forgotten history of progressive Christianity and the Social Gospel, to the Democratic Party's complicated relationship with faith, to why curiosity and genuine engagement may matter more than the right terminology. Carter also reflects on what politicians like James Talarico can teach us about speaking the language of faith without surrendering pluralism. Shownotes: Americans Should Stop Using the Term "Christian Nationalism" [https://www.theatlantic.com/books/2026/03/how-christian-nationalist-became-epithet/686279/] (Heath's article in The Atlantic Heath Carter's website [https://heathwcarter.com/] Related Episodes: Is Christian Nationalism Really A Problem? with Ted Peters | Episode 181 [https://churchandmain.org/episode/is-christian-nationalism-really-a-problem-with-ted-peters-episode-181] Did Mainline Protestants Birth Christian Nationalism with Beau Underwood | Episode 186 [https://churchandmain.org/episode/did-mainline-protestants-birth-christian-nationalism-with-beau-underwood-episode-186] Christian Nationalism or Christian Conservatism with Mark Tooley | Episode 195 [https://churchandmain.org/episode/christian-nationalism-or-christian-conservatism-with-mark-tooley-episode-195]   Donate to Church and Main [https://buymeacoffee.com/dennislsanders] Church and Main Substack [https://churchandmain.substack.com/] Join the Church and Main Email List [https://mailchi.mp/fbfac340e2ea/churchandmain] Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/churchandmain] | Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/churchandmainpod/] | Threads [https://www.threads.net/@churchandmainpod] | Twitter [https://x.com/churchandmain] | Website [https://churchandmain.org/] | YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@churchmainpodcast]

From the Table to the World — Building a Eucharistic Community with Jarrod Longbons | Episode 281

What if communion was more than a ritual squeezed between the offering and the sermon? I sat down with the Reverend Dr. Jarrod Longbons, pastor of Peachtree Christian Church in Atlanta, to explore what it means for the church to be a Eucharistic community. Jarrod makes the case that the Lord's Supper isn't just a worship practice — it's a social imagination that can reshape everything from how we care for the unhoused to how we sit with people we profoundly disagree with. Jarrod and I look into why the old model of church as a voluntary association is breaking down, what a eucharist-oriented church could look like, and how gathering around a shared table can bind people together in a world that keeps pulling them apart. Shownotes: When Institutions Fade: The Church As A Eucharistic Movement [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/complex-creatures/id1774026524?i=1000741628827](from Jarrod's Podcast, Complex Creatures [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/complex-creatures/id1774026524]) Related Episodes: Resurrection Hope Amidst the Broken Politics of 2025 with Drew McIntyre [https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-h4vzw-18f320b]   Donate to Church and Main [https://buymeacoffee.com/dennislsanders] Church and Main Substack [https://churchandmain.substack.com/] Join the Church and Main Email List [https://mailchi.mp/fbfac340e2ea/churchandmain]

Rethinking Anne Boleyn with Martha Tatarnic | Episode 280

What do you really know about Anne Boleyn? Most of us remember her as Henry VIII's ill-fated second wife — and not much more. But according to Martha Tatarnic, Anglican priest and author of Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History, we've been missing the bigger picture entirely. Martha returns to the podcast to explore Anne Boleyn as a serious religious reformer whose influence on the English Reformation — and the Anglican Church — has been vastly underestimated. History painted her as a seductress rather than a scholar.  Victim-blaming narratives have shaped her legacy for centuries, and Martha shares what recovering her true story means for the church today. Shownotes: Martha's website [https://marthatatarnic.ca/] Anne Boleyn: Reputation, Revolution, Religion, and the Queen Who Changed History [https://churchpublishing.org/collections/morehouse-publishing-coming-soon/products/9781640658592-anne-boleyn] When IDIC Met the Culture War [https://churchandmain.substack.com/p/when-idic-met-the-culture-war](Dennis' Article) Related Episodes: Talking About Success and Failure in the Church with Martha Tatarnic | Episode 218 [https://churchandmain.org/episode/talking-about-success-and-failure-in-the-church-with-martha-tartarnic-episode-218]   Donate to Church and Main [https://buymeacoffee.com/dennislsanders] Church and Main Substack [https://churchandmain.substack.com/] Join the Church and Main Email List [https://mailchi.mp/fbfac340e2ea/churchandmain]

The Good News vs. the Good Work with Jackson Campbell Walker | Episode 279

Many progressive and moderate Christians are passionate about justice, inclusion, and showing up for their neighbors. But what if in pursuing all the right causes, we've quietly set aside the message that makes us Christian in the first place? Jackson Campbell Walker knows this tension firsthand. As a gay pastor who has navigated both conservative evangelical and progressive Baptist spaces, he has watched well-meaning churches slowly replace the grace of God with the works of people.  Jackson and Dennis get honest about what it feels like to be clergy who love both the gospel and justice, and why those two things should never have to compete. They talk about the quiet crisis of trust underneath it all — how, when we stop believing God is at work, we scramble to fill the void with programs, politics, and causes.  This is a conversation for anyone who has ever felt caught between their faith and their convictions — and wondered if they had to choose. Shownotes: Trading the Cross for a cause [https://baptistnews.com/article/trading-the-cross-for-a-cause/] (Jackson's article)   Donate to Church and Main [https://buymeacoffee.com/dennislsanders] Church and Main Substack [https://churchandmain.substack.com/] Join the Church and Main Email List [https://mailchi.mp/fbfac340e2ea/churchandmain] churchandmain@substack.com [%20churchandmain@substack.com] Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/churchandmain] | Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/churchandmainpod/] | Threads [https://www.threads.net/@churchandmainpod] | Twitter [https://x.com/churchandmain] | Website [https://churchandmain.org/] | YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@churchmainpodcast]