Peking Hotel with Liu He

Susan Shirk discusses more events that happened during her time in the Clinton Administration, including NATO's accidental bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, Falun Gong protests in Beijing, and Jiang Zemin's visit to the U.S. Substack: https://pekinghotel.substack.com [https://pekinghotel.substack.com] Instagram: peking.hotel And please tell your friends about us! https://pekinghotel.substack.com/p/do-you-enjoy-reading-peking-hotel [https://pekinghotel.substack.com/p/do-you-enjoy-reading-peking-hotel] Get full access to Peking Hotel at pekinghotel.substack.com/subscribe [https://pekinghotel.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

In this episode of Peking Hotel, China scholar Susan Shirk discusses how she joined the Clinton administration, negotiated the WTO deal, and lost faith in the U.S. ability to improve human rights in China. Get full access to Peking Hotel at pekinghotel.substack.com/subscribe [https://pekinghotel.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Liu He speaks with Ian Johnson, a longtime China journalist and the author of the recent book "Sparks," about his first experiences in China, his reflections on foreign reporting, and his own career covering the country. The Peking Hotel podcast and newsletter [https://pekinghotel.substack.com] are digital publications in which Liu He interviews China specialists about their first-hand experiences and observations from decades past. The project grew out of Liu’s research at Hoover Institution collecting oral history of China experts living in the U.S. Their stories are a reminder of what China used to be and what it is capable of becoming. Please follow us on Substack [https://pekinghotel.substack.com], Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/peking.hotel?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==], LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/peking-hotel-podcast-newsletter/]. 欢迎关注百京饭店中文版 [https://baijingfandian.substack.com]！ Get full access to Peking Hotel at pekinghotel.substack.com/subscribe [https://pekinghotel.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Fox Butterfield is a Pulitzer-winning journalist who has served in Saigon, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Beijing, Boston, Washington and New York City. He was the first China correspondent of the New York Times since 1949 and opened the Beijing Bureau of the Times in 1979, just after diplomatic relations between China and the US normalised. His journalistic book on China, Alive In The Bitter Sea, [https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1038559.China] became a best-seller and phenomenon in the early 80s, launching the genre of journalist books on contemporary China that generations of journalists soon followed. I sat down with Fox in late July at his Portland home to record his personal oral history, and take us back to those magical years when China first began to open up in the 70s and early 80s. Fox has the unique vantage point as an Asia correspondent in the Cold War and one of the first American journalists to report in China. His narrative threads together a multifaceted story of a China specialist, informed and enriched by the Cold War context, a Harvard education, journalistic experience in America and Vietnam War, and a life-long interest in China. I walked away from the conversation feeling entertained by Fox’s quirky tales and grounded in the gravitas of the historical context. I hope you will find it interesting too. This is an episode co-produced with China Books Review [https://chinabooksreview.com], a digital magazine publishing intelligent commentary on all things China and bookish. This issue stitches together two episodes of Fox Butterfield’s oral history most relevant to China, and provides a one-episode overview of his China journey. You may safely skip this one if you have already listened to our previous two pieces Special thanks to Aorui Pi who edited this audio piece. About us Peking Hotel is a bilingual online publication that takes you down memory lane of recent history in China and narrates China’s reality through the personal tales of China experts. Through biweekly podcasts and newsletters, we present colourful first-person accounts of seasoned China experts. The project grew out of Leo’s research at Hoover Institution, where he collects oral histories of prominent China watchers in the West. Lastly… Speaking to these thoughtful individuals and sharing their stories with you has been a privilege. Their stories often remind me of what China used to be and what it is capable of becoming. I hope to publish more conversations like this one, so stay tuned! Please follow our Peking Hotel Substack page [https://pekinghotel.substack.com] for more. We also have a Chinese-language Substack [https://baijingfandian.substack.com/]. If you are on Instagram, follow us @peking.hotel [https://www.instagram.com/peking.hotel/profilecard/?igsh=MXFqcXl5dmg1dmVrYg==]. Get full access to Peking Hotel at pekinghotel.substack.com/subscribe [https://pekinghotel.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

When I arrived at Fox’s place, his chocolate lab, Charlie, greeted me with a wagging tail. The rainy weather outside, unfortunately, obscured what otherwise promised to be a stunning view of Mount Hood from Fox’s living room. But the conversation more than made up for what I missed in the landscape. Fox poured me a glass of water and sat opposite me on a grey sofa, wearing a navy blue jumper. Early this month, we published a piece about Fox’s early study of China under John Fairbank at Harvard and his reporting in Vietnam during the war. The last piece [https://pekinghotel.substack.com/p/fairbanks-rice-paddies-pentagon-papers]builds up towards this one, which delves into how Fox opened the first Beijing Bureau of The New York Times – the main reason that got me interested in his oral history in the first place. The press, as a quintessential part of America’s cultural entourage, brought a new window for the American public to understand China. It also symbolised a gesture of goodwill from the Chinese government toward the Western world. On the ground reporting in China was a pivotal step in bridging the two nations and making China’s reality more accessible to the world.  For the keen and curious minds, Mike Chinoy’s Assignment China: An Oral History of American Journalists in the People’s Republic [https://cup.columbia.edu/book/assignment-china/9780231207997] offers compelling accounts from American journalists about their early experiences in the country. Forty years later, this history is only beginning to be told. Shownotes: 10:29 Butterfield on Deng and Zhao Ziyang 13:27 Reflections on China’s attack on Vietnam 15:58 US’s critical lens on China 19:35 NYT’s Beijing Bureau at Peking Hotel 29:15 Day in life as a China correspondent 32:13 Life after China 39:45 Interactions with American politicians 40:41 Impression on Obama 45:23 Interactions with Trump Enjoy. Leo The editors of this episode is Caiwei Chen and Aorui Pi. If you are on Instagram, follow us @peking.hotel [https://www.instagram.com/peking.hotel/profilecard/?igsh=MXFqcXl5dmg1dmVrYg==]. Speaking to these thoughtful individuals and sharing their stories with you has been a privilege. Their stories often remind me of what China used to be and what it is capable of becoming. I hope to publish more conversations like this one, so stay tuned! Get full access to Peking Hotel at pekinghotel.substack.com/subscribe [https://pekinghotel.substack.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]