The In-Between

Normal Church, Longing, and the Gift of Small Places with Thomas Austin Theo Folk Singer Songwriter

Thomas Austin is a Nashville-based Theo folk singer-songwriter. He studied songwriting at Belmont University, has released two EPs — Indiana and Evergreen — and a full-length album, Eternal Life. His song "Normal Church," released this year, found its way to thousands of people navigating the exact tension it describes: loving the church and being honest about it at the same time. Thomas doesn't write songs that make money. He figured that out in college and decided to keep going anyway. What he writes instead are songs full of questions, sarcasm, longing, and humor — the kind of music that some people call sad and he'd call the most honest thing he knows how to make. This conversation gets into all of that: the theology behind his writing, what CS Lewis taught him about how to love something and still poke fun at it, why longing is sacred rather than something to suppress, and what it looks like to build a small faithful thing in a world that only rewards the big ones. He's 27. He plays house shows. He reads every DM. Takeaways: 👉 Why Thomas writes questions rather than answers — and why that's the only kind of song he knows how to make 👉 The three-layer difference between small-l longing and Big-L Longing — and why the second one is proof of something 👉 How CS Lewis laughs at what he loves — and why that's a spiritual practice, not just a style 👉 The "Normal Church" song: what inspired it, who got mad, and what Andy Gullhorn told him before he released it 👉 Why melancholy in music isn't sadness — and what it says about our emotional literacy as a culture 👉 What Thomas means when he says his writing and his life are the same thing at their best 👉 Why flourishing is like a ghost — and what you actually do with thatThis Episode Is for You If… 👉 You've left a church role and you're still figuring out what you believe about the church itself 👉 You feel longing for something different and aren't sure if that makes you a bad Christian 👉 You're building something small and faithful and wondering if that's enough 👉 You love beautiful, melancholic, honest music and want to know where it comes from ⭐️ Get my guide to clarify your next step: https://itstheinbetween.com/ 📝 Show Notes: https://itstheinbetween.com/episode35-thomas-austin/ ✅ Connect with me (Instagram:) https://www.instagram.com/theevandoyle/ If you liked this episode, please give it a thumbs up 👍, subscribe, and share it with your friends.

Everything You Want Is on the Other Side of Scary with Brian Wallace

👉 Get my guide to clarify your next step: ⁠https://itstheinbetween.com/ [https://itstheinbetween.com/] Brian Wallace has spent 19 years helping organizations take complex ideas and make them simple, visual, and impossible to ignore. As founder of NowSourcing — one of the pioneering infographic and visual storytelling agencies in the world — he's helped companies, basketball players, and movement builders get heard. He also sat on the South by Southwest advisory board for half a decade and organizes the Innovate Summit, a curated event built around the idea that the best thing you can walk away with from any room is one real relationship. This conversation goes wide. Brian talks about how he thinks about simplifying ideas, why most people hide behind bullet points and complexity instead of leading with emotion and story, and what it actually looks like to be a super-connector — hint: it has nothing to do with collecting business cards. He gets into the broken conference industry, what a healthy event looks like, and why everybody is a media company whether they know it or not. Takeaways: 👉 The three layers that make any idea land — emotion, storytelling, and data — and why the order matters 👉 Why leading with bullet points and features is the fastest way to lose someone before you've started 👉 What "super-connecting" actually means and why most people misunderstand it 👉 How Brian built a conference around the idea of "the concierge of humanity" — and what that looks like in practice 👉 Why everyone is a media company, including you — and what to do with that right now 👉 The creative impulse Brian believes is breathed into every person and why most people suppress it This Episode Is for You If… 👉 You've left a role that gave you identity and you're trying to figure out what to build next 👉 You know you have something to offer the world but you don't know how to make it visible 👉 You feel isolated in your transition and don't know how to start rebuilding your network 👉 You've been avoiding the thing you actually want because it feels too scary to start 📝 Show Notes:https://itstheinbetween.com/episode34-brian-wallace/

What Working for Carey Nieuwhof Taught Dillon Smith About Leaving Ministry & Serving Churches

👉 Get my guide to clarify your next step: https://itstheinbetween.com/ [https://itstheinbetween.com/] In this episode of The In-Between, Evan sits down with Dillon Smith — founder of CMO.Church and former content manager for Carey Nieuwhof. Dillon spent eight years working behind the scenes for two of the most influential voices in church leadership before stepping out to launch CMO.Church, a fractional CMO firm built on the conviction that world-class marketing should be available to every pastor on the planet. This conversation covers both the practical and the personal — from how to know when it's time to leave a ministry role, to what check writers are actually willing to pay for, to a book at the end that will ask you a question you won't be able to shake. Takeaways: 👉 Why your passion often moves before your calling does — and what to do with that 👉 Three markers that helped Dillon know it was time to leave Life.Church 👉 Why nothing from your ministry past is wasted — even the seasons that made no sense 👉 The trap of building a platform just to be famous for being a good Christian 👉 What check writers are willing to pay for — and why that's where to start 👉 Why community is what content was in the 2010s — and how to start building one 👉 The one metric Dillon tracks above followers and impressions 👉 The Second Mountain — and whether you're building the kingdom of me or the kingdom of Jesus This Episode Is for You If… 👉 You're a pastor or ministry leader wondering what comes next after a season in the church 👉 You want to build something but don't know where to start 👉 You've been watching other people's business content at night and wondering what that means 👉 You want practical insight on content, community, and marketing from someone who's built it at the highest level in the church world 📝 Show Notes:https://itstheinbetween.com/episode33-dillon-smith/

Faith, Fear & Your Nervous System with Jo Hargreaves (Faith Filled Therapist)

👉 Get my guide to clarify your next step: https://itstheinbetween.com/ In this episode of The In-Between, Evan sits down with Jo Hargreaves — psychotherapist, writer, speaker, pastor, and known as the Faith Filled Therapist — to explore the intersection of theology and therapy, and why neuroscience keeps pointing straight back to Scripture. Jo shares how a Holy Spirit nudge during early lockdown led her to start teaching what she'd long been discovering privately: that God designed us as spirit, soul, and body — and that our faith is meant to be embodied, not just intellectual. From perfect love casting out fear at a neurobiological level, to why worship activates your vagus nerve, to how your early attachment wounds may be quietly shaping your relationship with God — this conversation is rich, practical, and deeply grounding. Takeaways: 👉 Why perfect love really does cast out fear — at a neurobiological level 👉 What's happening in your body when you're overwhelmed and can't connect with God 👉 The practice of "regulate before you renew" — and why it changes everything 👉 Notice, name, and reframe — what taking thoughts captive looks like in ordinary life 👉 Biblical meditation: what it actually is, what it isn't, and how to practice it your way 👉 How anxious, avoidant, and disorganized attachment quietly shape how you relate to God 👉 Why holistic flourishing — spirit, soul, and body — isn't idealistic, it's God's design This Episode Is for You If… 👉 You're a faith-based leader in transition — between roles, seasons, or a sense of calling 👉 You know the truth but can't seem to feel it, and the shame of that gap is making it worse 👉 You want practical, theologically grounded tools for managing your mind in everyday life 👉 You're curious about the connection between your nervous system and your spiritual life If you liked this episode, please give it a thumbs up 👍, subscribe, and share it with your friends. 📝 Show Notes: https://itstheinbetween.com/episode32-jo-hargreaves/

Beth & Jeff McCord: From Pastoral Crisis to Global Enneagram Coaching Movement

In this episode of The In-Between, Evan sits down with Beth and Jeff McCord—bestselling authors and founders of Your Enneagram Coach—to unpack the powerful story behind one of the most influential faith-based coaching movements in the world. After a devastating church transition left them questioning their purpose, the McCords found themselves in an unexpected season of rebuilding. What began with financial uncertainty, part-time jobs, and late-night brainstorming sessions soon grew into a global platform serving millions. They share openly about loss, marriage tension, risk, recovery, and the surprising ways God used their pain to prepare them for something new. Takeaways : 👉 The church role that went sideways—and the sabbatical that forced a reset 👉 Beth’s entrepreneurial spark (platform skills, first Instagram posts, the scrappy first coach cohort) 👉 Jeff’s recovery & reframing season (counseling, ACOA, learning to learn-and-act) 👉 The catalytic moment: Ian Cron’s book hits and demand surges 👉 Why they launched Beth’s company (not under Jeff’s) to rewrite old patterns 👉 “Building while flying”: hiring help, customer support, and sustainable rhythms 👉 Redefining success beyond a church title—serving more people in new ways 👉 How their latest work (More Than Your Number) blends IFS with the Enneagram to navigate the inner world through transition This Episode Is for You If… * You’ve been through a ministry/job disruption and need a hopeful, practical blueprint * You and your spouse are navigating new roles while building something together * You’re curious how small experiments (and a lot of faithfulness) compound into a movement * You want to see how Enneagram insight + recovery work shaped a resilient second act * If you liked this video, please give it a thumbs up 👍, subscribe, and share it with your friends. 📝 Show Notes: https://itstheinbetween.com/episode31-beth-jeff-mccord/