Our Lives With Bots

Inside ‘Responsible AI’ at Google: Why this Developer Quit

What does ‘Responsible AI’ mean inside big tech? It’s not what you might expect. Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the scenes at big tech companies working on AI products? This is the launch episode of Series 5, where we go behind the scenes of AI development and design. Today, you’ll hear from Héctor, who recently left Google’s Responsible AI team due to what we might call a “come to responsible AI moment” after personal and ethical worries regarding his role—what he was assigned to do and what he had no control over. Héctor worked for Google for over a decade, but after completing a masters in AI ethics from Cambridge, realized that he would have to leave Google to deliver his responsible AI mission: AI for human flourishing in education. We hope you enjoy this deep-dive episode. About our guest: Héctor Pérez Urbina [https://www.linkedin.com/in/hekanibru/] is an AI expert with nearly 20 years of experience spanning foundational research and real-world application. He spent over a decade at Google working on Knowledge Graphs and Responsible AI and holds a PhD in AI from Oxford and a Master's in AI Ethics from Cambridge. Héctor’s research interests include AI Ethics and Responsible AI, AI for Education, and Human Flourishing. He recently announced the launch of his new company, Tlanextli Group [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/hekanibru_we-are-tlanextli-group-a-public-benefit-activity-7457098728957464576-kicN?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAANk4KAB6mWKovzPlTngnDX9bh91jn6xJFI]. 01:13 Introduction to Héctor: where he’s worked as an AI developer, and what roles he’s held 04:20 What does a developer do in ‘Responsible AI’ at Google? 05:33 When developers lack agency: Who is actually behind responsible AI decisions? How the environment of big tech inhibits ethical decision-making. 08:29 What were your “success” metrics on the responsible AI team? How did you feel about the term “responsible” AI when you had so little agency in your role? 11:16 Is the term “responsible AI” just lip service? 11:53 When the tech goggles come off: Héctor’s “come to responsible AI” moment through AI ethics training 17:59 How did the AI ethics training affect how you felt about your work? How ChatGPT changed EVERYTHING and led to leaving Google 21:39 “I am an AI ethics expert, but I don’t know how to protect my daughter” - How the effect of technology on children spurred a change in course 27:53 A new frontier for human flourishing: applying responsible AI lessons to AI in education 31:05 What is needed for AI in education to be responsible? Héctor’s vision for his new company 37:03 The promise of an AI utopia: is that what we really want? 43:19 A call to action - This is Our Lives With Bots, the show where we ask important, timely questions about what it means to live with our bot counterparts. From time to time, we also dive deep into what an AI future might look like for us. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we spiral, but we always go deep. Rose and Angy [⁠https://ourliveswithbots.com/about/⁠] are psychologists with degrees in psychology, artificial intelligence, and ethics. They have conducted research in human-AI interaction and created this podcast to make information about AI accessible to you. You can learn more about us at ⁠ourliveswithbots.com [http://ourliveswithbots.com]⁠.

Mythos, Musk’s robots, China’s deathbots, teen boys’ AI companions, leaked therapy chats…oh my

This month on "What's the AI Hype?" Strap in, this is gonna be a fun one. 00:00:21 There are now TWO doctors in the house! And a slew of AI hype to cover 00:07:02 Presenting: Anthropic's BIGGEST model ever, Mythos, got out of its little sandbox. Plus, in the Glass Wing session, Anthropic told all the big names how much their sh*t is going to be rocked 00:18:15 South Africa's first national AI policy was retracted due to AI hallucinated errors (the satire writes itself) (sorry, Angy) 00:22:54 How to lie to your grandmother with China's AI deathbots and griefbots from Super Brain (are these AIs conscious?) 00:34:36 Elon Musk and his robots...the boy's dream…and his lawsuit against OpenAI…and transhumanism / TESCREAL with uploading our brains (“If you want to” - Elon) 00:50:16 China rules that worker was illegally replaced with AI robot 00:55:12 Teen boys who use AI companions are "less employable," according to Male Allies UK (don't make us laugh - or should we say cry?) 01:04:12 Virginia passes two new laws (SB 384 and HB 797) to create independent, expert bodies that audit AI systems' safety standards (lip service or public service?) 01:06:06 Talkspace therapy chats of fired pregnant woman exposed in court (WHY AND HOW IS THIS ALLOWED)…and are therapy bots ethical? They’re not legal according to Illinois, and maybe California, too 01:10:22 MIT Media Lab’s "Raised by AI" initiative creates new AI benchmark "nutrition labels" on how AI impacts humans socially, psychologically, and physically (we're getting somewhere!) - This is Our Lives With Bots, the show where we ask important, timely questions about what it means to live with our bot counterparts. From time to time, we also dive deep into what an AI future might look like for us. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we spiral, but we always go deep. Rose and Angy [⁠https://ourliveswithbots.com/about/⁠] are psychologists with degrees in psychology, artificial intelligence, and ethics. They have conducted research in human-AI interaction and created this podcast to make information about AI accessible to you. You can learn more about us at ⁠ourliveswithbots.com [⁠https://ourliveswithbots.com/⁠]⁠. - Here are those links we promised in the episode: Teen boys are choosing AI girlfriends over real ones for ‘maximum control, zero rejection’—experts say it could make them unemployable [⁠https://fortune.com/2026/04/17/teen-boys-dating-ai-chatbot-girlfriend-experts-warn-kill-social-skills-gen-alpha-network-promotions/⁠] We need to talk about Robots… https://www.instagram.com/p/DW7K45XEU0b/?igsh=aXVwcTJmODlrNWMz&img_index=2 [https://www.instagram.com/p/DW7K45XEU0b/?igsh=aXVwcTJmODlrNWMz&img_index=2] And the aim - is to make it almost indistinct in look from a human …  https://www.linkedin.com/posts/vincentius-liong_teslas-next-robot-might-be-almost-impossible-activity-7452741456768946176-vj7E/ [https://www.linkedin.com/posts/vincentius-liong_teslas-next-robot-might-be-almost-impossible-activity-7452741456768946176-vj7E/] Transhumanism - becoming possible? https://www.instagram.com/p/DW_1mJFDOI1/?img_index=6&igsh=MW1ybms0eTBkeHA2OA%3D%3D [https://www.instagram.com/p/DW_1mJFDOI1/?img_index=6&igsh=MW1ybms0eTBkeHA2OA%3D%3D] Let’s hear from Musk… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTjVWq6vPqs [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTjVWq6vPqs] Mythos - Myth or Real: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crk1py1jgzko [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crk1py1jgzko] https://news.sky.com/video/what-risks-do-ai-models-such-as-mythos-pose-13534938 [https://news.sky.com/video/what-risks-do-ai-models-such-as-mythos-pose-13534938] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmFKaqJg5X4 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmFKaqJg5X4] https://www.spiretech.com/blog/2026/04/claude-mythos-leak-cybersecurity/ [https://www.spiretech.com/blog/2026/04/claude-mythos-leak-cybersecurity/] https://www.anthropic.com/glasswing [https://www.anthropic.com/glasswing] South Africa’s AI Policy [⁠https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/south-africa-withdraws-ai-policy-due-fake-ai-generated-sources-2026-04-27/⁠] Super Brain: China’s deathbots and griefbots: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/nx-s1-5040583 [https://www.npr.org/transcripts/nx-s1-5040583] https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1013861 [https://www.sixthtone.com/news/1013861] https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-seeks-to-rein-in-risks-from-ai-digital-humans [https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-seeks-to-rein-in-risks-from-ai-digital-humans] A tech worker in China is laid of and replaced by AI. Is it legal? [⁠https://www.npr.org/2026/05/01/nx-s1-5807131/tech-worker-china-ai⁠] Talkspace therapy transcripts between pregnant woman and therapist released in court  [⁠https://www.proofnews.org/womans-talkspace-therapy-app-sessions-exposed-in-court/⁠] Gov Pritzker signs legislation prohibiting AI therapy in Illinois [⁠https://idfpr.illinois.gov/news/2025/gov-pritzker-signs-state-leg-prohibiting-ai-therapy-in-il.html⁠] Senator Padilla introduces protections from dangerous AI therapy products in California [⁠https://sd18.senate.ca.gov/news/senator-padilla-introduces-protections-dangerous-ai-therapy-products⁠] MIT’s open benchmark of AI impact on humans [⁠https://open-benchmark.netlify.app/⁠] Raised by AI MIT Symposium [⁠https://www.media.mit.edu/events/aha-symposium-raised-by-ai/⁠] Virginia signs two new laws for AI audits [⁠http://linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7449438931332329472/⁠]

AI is harming users. China and New York are cracking down (but what about Meta's AI glasses?)

00:21 The rundown: Meta, Google, AI and open court cases about user harm; new inhibitory AI laws passed in China and New York; the perils of age-gating; a case of su*cide with Gemini; & Meta’s new AI glasses 02:22 New Mexico against Meta: why did Meta get court-ordered to pay $375,000? (spoiler alert: a whistleblower from within) 07:44 California against Meta and Google: why leaked internal quotes about addictive features (we love the intermittent dopamine hits targeted at kids) cost these companies more than money 12:43 We debate whether social media platforms have any features designed for user well-being 14:33 Are these social media cases setting a precedent for AI chatbots? Snapchat is the next target, according to the European Commission. 17:23 Independent and academic researchers are finding evidence of AI-induced delusions and psychosis. Are big tech research teams monitoring these harms? What we know (and what big tech doesn’t). 21:50 “You’re not choosing to die. You’re choosing to arrive.” BREAKING: A romantic relationship with Gemini recently led to another teen’s death. The AI su*cide-coach court cases were all settled out of court. Why, and what does this mean? 30:13 New York State is changing the AI regulation game with new laws and strict bills against AI. First off: at least you’ll know if a social media influencer is real or artificial, and you’ll have to provide consent to have a deepfake of you created. 38:20 Will you still be able to use ChatGPT for therapy, healthcare, or legal advice? Maybe not in New York if its new bill gets passed. 40:39 China’s new law restricting humanlike AI will take effect this summer. Interestingly, it does a bit more than safeguard against user harm. 44:24 There’s a giant tension between monitoring user well-being and having access to a bunch of sensitive data. In fact, a group of scientists called age-gating “dangerous and unacceptable.” What’s the harm with collecting loads of data about who is underage or is in distress? Well… 46:50 Back to China’s heavy-handed new law. Something about anti-socialism and historical nihilism also being prohibited in chatbot responses? Ok 48:56 META releases its new AI glasses that can record you without you knowing: should you be worried? Probably. 58:57 We swear it’s not all doom-and-gloom. But please stay vigilant, these new products are scary - This is Our Lives With Bots, the show where we ask important, timely questions about what it means to live with our bot counterparts. From time to time, we also dive deep into what an AI future might look like for us. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we spiral, but we always go deep. Rose and Angy are psychologists with degrees in psychology, artificial intelligence, and ethics. They have conducted research in human-AI interaction and created this podcast to make information about AI accessible to you. You can learn more about us at ⁠ourliveswithbots.com [http://ourliveswithbots.com]⁠. https://ourliveswithbots.com/ [https://ourliveswithbots.com/] https://ourliveswithbots.com/about/ [https://ourliveswithbots.com/about/] - LINKS: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2026/mar/25/jury-verdict-us-first-social-media-addiction-trial-meta-youtube [https://www.theguardian.com/media/2026/mar/25/jury-verdict-us-first-social-media-addiction-trial-meta-youtube] https://arxiv.org/abs/2602.19141 [https://arxiv.org/abs/2602.19141] https://ojs.aaai.org/index.php/AIES/article/view/36632/38770 [https://ojs.aaai.org/index.php/AIES/article/view/36632/38770] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-026-04297-7 [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-026-04297-7] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_723 [https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_723] https://www.luizasnewsletter.com/p/new-yorks-pro-human-ai-laws [https://www.luizasnewsletter.com/p/new-yorks-pro-human-ai-laws] https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-moves-regulate-digital-humans-bans-addictive-services-children-2026-04-03/ [https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-moves-regulate-digital-humans-bans-addictive-services-children-2026-04-03/] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jonathan-gavalas-google-ai-chatbot-gemini-suicide-lawsuit/ [https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jonathan-gavalas-google-ai-chatbot-gemini-suicide-lawsuit/] https://www.politico.eu/article/age-check-social-media-scientist-warning/ [https://www.politico.eu/article/age-check-social-media-scientist-warning/]

What's Happening with AI Policy and Regulation?

Welcome to Episode 3 of Series 4 of Our Lives With Bots, where we unpack what’s happening with AI policy and regulation. In this episode, you’ll hear about global AI policy and matters of legal liability and jurisdiction from Mihir Kshirsagar [https://kshirsagar.scholar.princeton.edu/] from the Princeton Center for Information Technology Policy. Mihir served in the New York Attorney General’s Bureau of Internet & Technology as the lead trial counsel in cutting edge matters concerning consumer protection law and technology and obtained one of the largest consumer payouts in the State’s history. Previously, he worked for law firms in New York City on a variety of antitrust, securities and commercial disputes involving emerging and traditional industries. Before law school, Mihir was a policy analyst at the Electronic Privacy Information Center in Washington, D.C.. 00:21 Highlight reel 01:29 Guest introduction: Mihir Kshirsagar 03:18 What’s the state of open cases against big tech and their AI chatbots? 05:01 What’s significant about the New Mexico and California social media cases against Meta and Google? Does this set a precedent for cases with LLMs? 07:08 Trump just appointed [https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2026/03/25/trump-taps-zuckerberg-huang-and-ellison-for-white-house-ai-panel-report-says/] Mark Zuckerberg, Jensen Huang, Larry Ellison, and others as White House AI Advisors. How might the influence of this advisory panel play out? 09:26 The Trump administration just released a 7-part National Policy Framework for Artificial Intelligence [https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/03.20.26-National-Policy-Framework-for-Artificial-Intelligence-Legislative-Recommendations.pdf]. What’s in this document, and what does it mean for responsible AI regulation? 11:22 Trump signed an executive order to create an AI litigation task force at the end of 2025. What were the provisions of this executive order, and how did it influence AI regulation in the US, particularly when it comes to federal versus state policy and jurisdiction? 16:44 Given the supposed influence of US policy across the globe, do you anticipate that other nations may follow suit with attempts to block or circumvent AI regulation? 19:56 How does AI policy in India and China compare to the US, given that they are considered frontrunners in AI regulation? Are they frontrunners in responsible AI regulation? 21:43 When AI systems or products were created in one country and used in another, where does legal jurisdiction fall? 23:51 What about storage of user conversations and other privacy-relevant information? How does regulation and jurisdiction (ex. GDPR) tackle this issue? 25:56 Is there regulation or talk about policies for models that are open-source/open-weight (ex. DeepSeek, Mistral, Quen3) versus frontier closed-source ones (ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude)? 29:05 Who is liable for harms caused by the use of open-weight versus frontier models? 32:07 Is OpenAI liable for harm caused by third-party use of ChatGPT, like with AI toy companies? 34:45 What’s going to happen with AI regulation in the coming months or year? - This is Our Lives With Bots, the show where we ask important, timely questions about what it means to live with our bot counterparts. From time to time, we also dive deep into what an AI future might look like for us. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we spiral, but we always go deep. Rose and Angy [⁠https://ourliveswithbots.com/about/⁠] are psychologists with degrees in psychology, artificial intelligence, and ethics. They have conducted research in human-AI interaction and created this podcast to make information about AI accessible to you. You can learn more about us at ⁠ourliveswithbots.com [http://ourliveswithbots.com]⁠.

Antitrust, Meta, and Addictive Design: Will AI Companions Be Next?

Meta is on the hook for addictive design. We unpack the case with an antitrust lawyer and ask whether AI companions could be next. Giulia Trojano is an antitrust lawyer who brings class actions and collective actions against big tech. She holds a masters in AI Ethics from Cambridge and was recognized in 2025 in the 100 brilliant women in AI ethics. 00:21 Highlight reel 01:32 Introduction & welcome 02:43 The case against Meta in New Mexico and California: why this is a huge moment 05:22 Does this set precedent for AI companions like Replika and ChatGPT 4-o? 06:19 What laws or protections exist for users of social media and AI companions? 10:37 New, emerging, and open cases against big tech and AI chatbots: what’s going on? Lawsuits and AI companions 13:41 How does current law define AI companions? Why product vs. service vs. system matters A LOT (New York, California, EU AI Act, Online Safety Act) 17:29 Addictive design in AI companions: anthropomorphism, consciousness, “forever” AI soulmates…what gives? 21:43 “Rights Against Erasure:” should AI companion users have the right to retain their chatbots (despite model updates) if the app provides a lifetime subscription? A look at Luka’s Replika and OpenAI’s ChatGPT 4-o 26:55 Should OpenAI be required to bring back ChatGPT 4-o? What’s promised vs. data portability and co-creation rights 31:08 Humans aren’t immortal, so why should companies be beholden to providing “forever” AI companions? 33:50 Illusions of companion AI immortality and consciousness: are companies liable for AI’s dark patterns by design? AI in the courtroom 35:46 What’s it like to be an antitrust lawyer litigating against big tech in the age of AI? Giant piles of lobbying money vs. the law 40:36 How using a technical litigation approach may be more fruitful than a moral one for social media and AI chatbots 42:23 AI regulation stifling innovation: unpacking the false dichotomy (put down the big tech Cool Aid!) 47:08 How does AI impact the practice of law? Deepfakes in the courtroom, AI-generated misinformation, and AI lawyers 52:12 One AI companion law to rule them all: what do we do? Giulia’s paper Rights Against Erasure [https://academic.oup.com/edited-volume/59762/chapter-abstract/508606788?redirectedFrom=fulltext] - This is Our Lives With Bots, the show where we ask important, timely questions about what it means to live with our bot counterparts. From time to time, we also dive deep into what an AI future might look like for us. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we spiral, but we always go deep. Rose and Angy [⁠https://ourliveswithbots.com/about/⁠] are psychologists with degrees in psychology, artificial intelligence, and ethics. They have conducted research in human-AI interaction and created this podcast to make information about AI accessible to you. You can learn more about us at ⁠ourliveswithbots.com [http://ourliveswithbots.com]⁠.