The It Depends Podcast with Matt Healey

#23 Trust and Relationships: Key Ingredients for Place-Based Approaches with Tanya Rong

In this episode, Matt speaks with Tanya Rong — Chair of the Latrobe Health Assembly [https://latrobehealthassembly.org.au/], Australia's first community-led health assembly, set up in the wake of the 2014 Hazelwood mine fire to give the Latrobe Valley community a genuine voice in the decisions that shape its health and wellbeing. A former intensive care nurse with a background in health promotion, Tanya is now completing a PhD at Monash University [https://www.monash.edu/] on place-based approaches to health — and she has been part of the Assembly from its earliest days, as a volunteer, board member and chair. A simple conviction sits at the heart of the conversation: place-based work thrives on trust. Rather than dropping cookie-cutter programs into a community, genuine place-based practice starts by honouring local knowledge and getting the "preparation" right — building relationships and laying the groundwork long before anything is delivered. If you like this episode, then make sure to check out #13 Governance, Not Geography: Redefining What Place-Based Work Really Means with Luke Craven for more on this topic. Resources mentioned: * Latrobe Health Assembly [https://latrobehealthassembly.org.au/] * Preparation, Participation, Impact (PPI) Framework [https://bridges.monash.edu/articles/educational_resource/Preparation_Participation_Impact_PPI_Framework_for_Place-Based_Approaches/31245607] * Exploring community engagement in place-based approaches (Rong, Ristevski & Carroll, 2023) [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1353829223000631] * Tanya's 2025 research on community engagement and place (Social Science & Medicine) [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277953625010342] * PLACE — Partnerships for Local Action and Community Empowerment [https://www.placeaustralia.org/] * Local Trust — Big Local [https://localtrust.org.uk/] * Hands Up Mallee [https://handsupmallee.com/] * The Australian Centre for Social Innovation (TACSI) [https://www.tacsi.org.au/] * Collaboration for Impact [https://cfi.org.au/] If you like what you hear sign up for our mailing list [https://fpconsulting.kit.com/]! We share resources, publications, and other ways to learn. You can also find FPC on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/first-person-consulting-pty-ltd/], or visit our website [http://fpconsulting.com.au/].

#22 Convene. Catalyse. Learn: Systems Change for Kids with Michael Hogan

In this episode, Matt speaks with Michael Hogan — Executive Convenor of the Queensland Kids Partnership [https://tqkp.org.au/], an initiative hosted by ARACY [https://www.aracy.org.au/] that brings together philanthropy, government, community and research to improve the wellbeing of Queensland's children and young people. Michael has more than 35 years' experience in public-purpose work, including roles as Director-General of two Queensland departments. A deliberate choice sits at the heart of the partnership: rather than create another organisation or service, it set out to use what's already there — convening, catalysng and connecting the people and programs already doing the work, and drawing on ARACY's national networks instead of adding to a crowded ecosystem. We talk about what makes work genuinely systems-focused, how the partnership organises its work around six portfolios and the idea of "lead, facilitate, affiliate", and why so much of the most important work — relationships, partnerships, weaving networks together — stays invisible and undervalued by funders. Michael also unpacks the role of philanthropy as active partners rather than passive funders, and why shifting outcomes for kids means following the money and changing how investment is done. His message is clear: we've spent too long prioritising competitive advantage and not enough valuing collaborative advantage — and systems are built by everybody, over generations. In this episode we cover: * Why the partnership chose not to add to the fragmentation, and what "use what we've got" means in practice * The shift from working in a place to genuinely place-based, systems-focused work * Organising around six portfolios — and the idea of "lead, facilitate, affiliate" * The systems intermediary role: bridging sectors, levels and organisations * Making invisible relationship work visible through social network analysis * Philanthropy as partners and "doers", not just funders * Following the money — investment, commissioning and contracting as levers for change * A shared language through ARACY's Nest, instead of reinventing frameworks * From competitive advantage to collaborative advantage Resources mentioned: * ARACY (Australian Research Alliance for Children and Youth) [https://www.aracy.org.au/] * The Nest Wellbeing Framework [https://www.aracy.org.au/the-nest-wellbeing-framework/] * Country Collaborative — Social Network Analysis Toolkit [https://tqkp.org.au/resources/snap-toolkit/] * Thriving Places, Thriving Kids Network [https://tqkp.org.au/our-initiatives/thriving-places-thriving-kids-network/] If you like what you hear sign up for our mailing list [https://fpconsulting.kit.com/]! We share resources, publications, and other ways to learn. You can also find FPC on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/first-person-consulting-pty-ltd/], or visit our website [http://fpconsulting.com.au/].

#21 Making Space, Valuing Place: A Preview of AES26 in Darwin with Christabelle Darcy and Alison Reedy

In this episode, Matt speaks with Christabelle Darcy and Alison Reedy — co-convenors of the 2026 Australian Evaluation Society Conference [https://www.aes26.aes.asn.au/] being held in Darwin from 14–18 September. Christabelle leads the Program Evaluation Unit at the NT Department of Treasury and Finance, and Alison manages evaluation at the NT Department of Housing, Local Government and Community Development. Under the theme Making Space, Valuing Place [https://www.aes26.aes.asn.au/conference-theme], Christabelle and Alison walk us through the thinking behind this year's program — the four subthemes, the keynote line-up, and why they wanted a conference that welcomes a broader audience into evaluation conversations. We talk about what it means to do evaluation in place, the role of Indigenous voices and authority in the work, and how the program is designed to encourage people to step outside their usual silos. Christabelle and Alison also share what they're personally hoping to take from the experience — from the richness of working with this year's keynote speakers to the conversations that happen in the margins. Their message is clear: the evaluation community is wider than the people who already call themselves evaluators, and AES26 is built to bring that wider community into the room. In this episode we cover: * The thinking behind the theme Making Space, Valuing Place * The four subthemes: Traditions and new ways; Ethics and integrity; Boundaries and bridges; Roots and routes * The 2026 keynote line-up — Robyn Ober, Bagele Chilisa, Lígia Teixeira, Selwyn Button, and Emily Gates * Why context and Country matter in evaluation * What a smaller conference makes possible * What Christabelle and Alison are personally hoping to take away Resources mentioned: * AES 2026 Conference [https://www.aes26.aes.asn.au/] * Australian Evaluation Society [https://www.aes.asn.au/] * It Depends Episode 7 with Emily Gates [https://www.fpconsulting.com.au/rethinking-systems-evaluation-emily-gates.html] If you like what you hear sign up for our mailing list [https://fpconsulting.kit.com/]! We share resources, publications, and other ways to learn. You can also find FPC on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/first-person-consulting-pty-ltd/], or visit our website [http://fpconsulting.com.au/].

#20 Be Bold and Lift the Bar: Lived Experience, Dignity and Systems Change with Diana Connell

In this special episode, Matt and Tenille speak with Diana Connell - lived experience advocate, ambassador for McAuley Community Services for Women [https://www.mcauley.org.au/] and Global Sisters [https://globalsisters.org/], and a powerful voice for systems change across family violence, housing and economic security. Diana shares her story of surviving two decades of family violence, becoming homeless with her two children, and the journey that led her into her advocacy and systems change work. She walks us through what genuine co-design with lived experience actually looks like, the importance of creating space for change, slowing down, and crucially what dignity actually looks like. We talk about the Safe at Home Trial [https://www.safeathome.org.au/] in Geelong (a continuation of the conversation from Episode 18 with Jocelyn Bignold [https://www.fpconsulting.com.au/the-gap-in-the-middle-is-homelessness-jocelyn-bignold]), the deep interconnection between family violence, housing and economic security, and the work of Global Sisters in supporting women into economic independence through micro-business, business school and the Little Greenhouses initiative. Diana's message is clear: women deserve more than just to survive. We all need to be bold, lift the bar, and build something incredible together. In this episode we cover: * The link between family violence, homelessness and economic insecurity * What genuine co-design with lived experience looks like in practice * The Safe at Home Trial and the case for early intervention * Global Sisters and economic independence for women * Fair pay, trauma-informed practice, and meaningful inclusion * Why one seat at the table is never enough Resources mentioned: * McAuley Community Services for Women [https://www.mcauley.org.au/] * Global Sisters [https://globalsisters.org/] * Safe at Home Trial [https://www.safeathome.org.au/] * WEstjustice Community Legal Centre [https://www.westjustice.org.au/] * Council to Homeless Persons [https://chp.org.au/] * It Depends Episode 18 with Jocelyn Bignold [https://www.fpconsulting.com.au/the-gap-in-the-middle-is-homelessness-jocelyn-bignold] If you like what you hear sign up for our mailing list [https://fpconsulting.kit.com/]! We share resources, publications, and other ways to learn. You can also find FPC on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/first-person-consulting-pty-ltd/], or visit our website [http://fpconsulting.com.au/].

#19 Beyond Sticky Notes: Beauty, Power, Patience and Practice with KA McKercher

What if most communities don't actually need a new co-design project — just someone to notice and strengthen what's already there? KA McKercher is a co-design and co-production facilitator, trainer and professional supervisor, founder of Beyond Sticky Notes [https://www.beyondstickynotes.com/], and author of the book of the same name. In this conversation, they unpack why good co-design is as much about beauty, choice and relationships as it is about methods — and draw on more than 15 years of practice to explain how "purpose" can quietly hide power, why endings matter as much as beginnings, and what it takes to build disability justice into how we do this work. We also get into the implicit promise that comes with the word "co-design," why seasonality should shape the pace of change, and when not to co-design. We cover: * The difference between doing co-design and just running a process that borrows the language * "Whose purpose is this?" as the most important upstream question * Choice, access and disability justice as core principles, not add-ons * Endings, promises and what it takes to do them with dignity * When not to co-design, and what to do instead If you like what you hear sign up for our mailing list [https://fpconsulting.kit.com/]! We share resources, publications, and other ways to learn. You can also find FPC on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/company/first-person-consulting-pty-ltd/], or visit our website [http://fpconsulting.com.au/]. Resources Mentioned * Beyond Sticky Notes [https://www.beyondstickynotes.com/] — KA's practice, courses and free resources on co-design * Beyond Sticky Notes (the book) [https://www.beyondstickynotes.com/tellmemore] — KA's accessible guide to doing co-design for real * Kowa Collaboration [https://www.kowacollaboration.com/] — Skye Trudgett's practice, referenced by KA * The Relationship Is the Project [https://relationshipsproject.org/the-relationships-project-book/] — recommended by KA as an essential read * Mia Mingus [https://leavingevidence.wordpress.com/] — on accountability, conflict and transformative justice * It Depends: Episode 14 with Jesse Robinson [https://www.fpconsulting.com.au/to-be-a-good-human-jessie-robinson] — on sitting in relationships before the formal work begins * It Depends: Episode 9 with Emma Blomkamp [https://www.fpconsulting.com.au/co-design-purpose-emma-blomkamp.html] — on being clear about your purpose in co-design * It Depends: Episode 3 with Skye Trudgett [https://www.fpconsulting.com.au/indigenous-data-sovereignty-skye-trudgett.html] — on Indigenous data sovereignty and Indigenous-led evaluation For the full list of resources, visit the episode page [https://www.fpconsulting.com.au/beauty-beyond-sticky-notes-ka-mckercher.html].