Freakonomics Radio

651. The Ultimate Dance Partner

For most of human history, horsepower made the world go. Then came the machines. So why are there still seven million horses in America? (Part one of a series, “The Horse Is Us [https://freakonomics.com/the-horse-is-us/].”)   * SOURCES: * Ann N. Greene [https://philadelphiaencyclopedia.org/authors/ann-norton-greene/], historian of 19th century America, retired professor at the University of Pennsylvania. * Constance Hunter [https://www.eiu.com/n/people/constance-hunter/], chief economist at the Economist Intelligence Unit. * Elizabeth Bortuzzo, professional horse rider. * Mark Paul [https://bloustein.rutgers.edu/people/paul/], professor of economics at Rutgers University. * Peter Frankopan [https://www.peterfrankopan.com/], professor of global history at Oxford History.   * RESOURCES: * "2023 Economic Impact Study of the U.S. Horse Industry [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wNEqiJ6rpx3KzwqE0nUtq55TLzHQQsxk/view]," (American Horse Council Foundation, 2024). * Riding to Arms [https://amzn.to/4ns7wRR], by Charles Caramello (2022). * The Horse in the City [https://amzn.to/49zWWVA], by Clay McShane and Joel Tarr (2011). * Horses at Work [https://amzn.to/3Wt1qWz], by Ann Norton Greene (2008). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com [https://pcm.adswizz.com] for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Are Two C.E.O.s Better Than One? (Update)

Spotify, Oracle, and Comcast have each recently announced they’re going with co-C.E.O.s. In this 2023 episode, we dig into the research and hear firsthand stories of triumph and disaster. Also: lessons from computer programmers, Simon and Garfunkel, and bears versus alligators.     * SOURCES: * Jim Balsillie [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Balsillie], retired chairman and co-C.E.O. of Research In Motion. * Mike Cannon-Brookes [https://www.linkedin.com/in/mcannonbrookes/?originalSubdomain=au], co-founder and C.E.O. of Atlassian. * Scott Farquhar [https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottfarquhar/?originalSubdomain=au], co-founder and former co-C.E.O. of Atlassian. * Marc Feigen [https://feigenadvisors.com/team/profile/marc-a-feigen/], C.E.O. advisor. * Jeffrey Sonnenfeld [https://som.yale.edu/faculty-research/faculty-directory/jeffrey-sonnenfeld], professor of management studies and senior associate dean at the Yale School of Management and founding president of the Chief Executive Leadership Institute. * Laurie Williams [https://collaboration.csc.ncsu.edu/laurie/index.html], professor of computer science at North Carolina State University.   * RESOURCES: * "Scott Farquhar to resign as joint CEO of Atlassian [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2024/apr/26/scott-farquhar-to-resign-as-joint-ceo-of-atlassian]," by Jonathan Barrett (The Guardian, 2024). * "Is It Time to Consider Co-C.E.O.s? [https://hbr.org/2022/07/is-it-time-to-consider-co-ceos]" by Marc A. Feigen, Michael Jenkins, and Anton Warendh (Harvard Business Review, 2022). * "The Costs and Benefits of Pair Programming [https://collaboration.csc.ncsu.edu/laurie/Papers/XPSardinia.PDF]," by Alistair Cockburn and Laurie Williams (2000). * "Strengthening the Case for Pair Programming [https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/854064]," by Laurie Williams, Robert R. Kessler, Ward Cunningham, and Ron Jeffries (IEEE Software, 2000).   * EXTRAS: * "The Secret Life of a C.E.O. [https://freakonomics.com/podcast-tag/the-secret-life-of-c-e-o-s/]," series by Freakonomics Radio (2018). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com [https://pcm.adswizz.com] for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

650. The Doctor Won’t See You Now

The U.S. has a physician shortage, created in part by a century-old reform that shut down bad medical schools. But why haven’t we filled the gap? Why are some physicians so unhappy? And which is worse: a bad doctor or no doctor at all?   * SOURCES: * Karen Clay [https://www.heinz.cmu.edu/faculty-research/profiles/clay-karenb/], professor of economics and public policy at Carnegie Mellon University. * Rochelle Walensky [https://www.hks.harvard.edu/about/rochelle-walensky-md-mph], physician-scientist and former director of the CDC.   * RESOURCES: * "Medical School Closures, Market Adjustment, and Mortality in the Flexner Report Era [https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w33937/w33937.pdf?utm_campaign=PANTHEON_STRIPPED&%3Butm_medium=PANTHEON_STRIPPED&%3Butm_source=PANTHEON_STRIPPED]," by Karen Clay, Grant Miller, Margarita Portnykh, and Ethan Schmick (National Bureau of Economic Research, 2025). * "Application Overload — A Call to Reduce the Burden of Applying to Medical School [https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMp2414572]," by Rochelle Walensky and Loren Walensky (New England Journal of Medicine, 2025). * "Challenges to the Future of a Robust Physician Workforce in the United States [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsr2412784]," by Rochelle Walensky and Nicole McCann (New England Journal of Medicine, 2025). * "The first step to addressing the physician shortage [https://www.statnews.com/2025/01/15/physician-shortage-gme-residency-specialties-setting-limitations/]," by Rochelle Walensky and Nicole McCann (STAT, 2025). * "Physician Workforce: Projections, 2022-2037 [https://bhw.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/bureau-health-workforce/data-research/physicians-projections-factsheet.pdf]," (National Center for Health Workforce Analysis, 2024). * “Projected Estimates of African American Medical Graduates of Closed Historically Black Medical Schools [https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2769573],” by Kendall Campbell, Irma Corral, Jhojana Infante Linares, and Dmitry Tumin (JAMA Network, 2020). * "Medical Education in the United States and Canada [https://ia803109.us.archive.org/32/items/carnegieflexnerreport/Carnegie_Flexner_Report.pdf]," by Abraham Flexner (The Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching, 1910).   * EXTRAS: * "Is the Air Traffic Control System Broken? [https://freakonomics.com/is-the-air-traffic-control-system-broken/]" series by Freakonomics Radio (2025). * "Are You Ready for the Elder Swell? [https://freakonomics.com/podcast/are-you-ready-for-the-elder-swell/]" by Freakonomics Radio (2025). * "Are Private Equity Firms Plundering the U.S. Economy? [https://freakonomics.com/podcast/are-private-equity-firms-plundering-the-u-s-economy/]" by Freakonomics Radio (2023). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com [https://pcm.adswizz.com] for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A Question-Asker Becomes a Question-Answerer

For the 20th anniversary of Freakonomics, Debbie Millman of Design Matters interviews Stephen Dubner about his upbringing, his writing career, and why it's important to “swing your swing.” Plus: a sneak peek at a new project.   * SOURCES: * Debbie Millman [https://debbiemillman.com/], writer and host of Design Matters with Debbie Millman.   * RESOURCES: * "Stephen J. Dubner [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/stephen-j-dubner/id328074695?i=1000726877218]," by Design Matters with Debbie Millman (2025). * Turbulent Souls: A Catholic Son's Return To His Jewish Family [https://www.amazon.com/Turbulent-Souls-Catholic-Return-Jewish/dp/B000HXDKAM], by Stephen Dubner (1999). * "Choosing My Religion [https://www.nytimes.com/1996/03/31/magazine/choosing-my-religion.html]," by Stephen Dubner (New York Times, 1996).   * EXTRAS: * "In Search of the Real Adam Smith [https://freakonomics.com/podcast/in-search-of-the-real-adam-smith/]," by Freakonomics Radio (2022). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com [https://pcm.adswizz.com] for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

How Can We Break Our Addiction to Contempt? (Update)

Arthur Brooks, an economist and former head of the American Enterprise Institute, believes that there is only one remedy for our political polarization: love. In this 2021 episode, we ask if Brooks is a fool for thinking this — and if perhaps you are his kind of fool?   * SOURCES: * Arthur Brooks [https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty/arthur-brooks], professor of public and nonprofit leadership at Harvard University.   * RESOURCES: * “Vital Statistics on Congress [https://www.brookings.edu/articles/vital-statistics-on-congress/],” by Molly Reynolds and Naomi Maehr (Brookings Institute, 2024). * Dopamine Nation: Finding Balance in the Age of Indulgence [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/152474672X/ref=as_li_qf_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=freakonomic08-20&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=152474672X&linkId=f3e4efe17effdb1fa75042c3b2335d06], by Anna Lembke (2021). * “Reading Too Much Political News Is Bad for Your Well-Being [https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2020/10/reading-too-much-political-news-bad-happiness/616651/],” by Arthur Brooks (The Atlantic, 2020). * Love Your Enemies: How Decent People Can Save America from the Culture of Contempt [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062888021/ref=as_li_qf_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=freakonomic08-20&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=0062888021&linkId=4417e8fc2b17d946d38d4153e2b70eae], by Arthur Brooks (2019). * “This 75-Year Harvard Study Found the 1 Secret to Leading a Fulfilling Life [https://www.inc.com/melanie-curtin/want-a-life-of-fulfillment-a-75-year-harvard-study-says-to-prioritize-this-one-t.html],” by Melanie Curtin (Inc., 2017). * The Conservative Heart: How to Build a Fairer, Happier, and More Prosperous America [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0062319760/ref=as_li_qf_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=freakonomic08-20&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=0062319760&linkId=f16090fc7752c73546e13ab17073c0e0], by Arthur Brooks (2015). * “Grin and Bear It: The Influence of Manipulated Facial Expression on the Stress Response [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0956797612445312],” by Tara Kraft and Sarah Pressman (Psychological Science, 2012).   * EXTRAS: * “Why Is U.S. Media So Negative? [https://freakonomics.com/podcast/american-culture-negative-media/]” by Freakonomics Radio (2021). Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com [https://pcm.adswizz.com] for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.