Beyond the system: Empowered by experience / De l’ombre à la lumière: Parcours de vie post DPJ
La notion de "famille" suite au placement-Conceptualising family after being care
Descripción
Pour faire suite au dernier épisode du podcast du CCTEA qui portait sur la parentalité chez les anciens jeunes placés, cette fois-ci c’est au tour de Annie et de Janis de nous parler de leur conceptualisation de la famille, et comment leur rapport à la famille a été façonné par le fait d’avoir grandi sans la présence régulière de leurs parents biologiques. Puisque Annie et Janis ont eu des trajectoires de placement très différentes, leur perspectives dresse un portrait de différentes visions possible de la famille, et comment la famille se construit pendant et suite au placement. Cet épisode est en français. Following from the last episode of our CCCYT podcast, which focused on parenting experiences among former youth in care, this time Annie and Janis share how they conceptualize family and how their relationship with family was shaped by growing up without the regular presence of their biological parents. Since Annie and Janis had very different placement trajectories, their perspectives provides different possible visions of family and how family is built during and after placement into Care. This episode is in French. A translation of the full episode transcript is available below: Transcript: Introduction: Anaïs Cadieux Van Vliet Welcome to Beyond the System: former youth in care, empowered by experience. Hosted by the Canadian Consortium on Child and Youth Trauma, Beyond the System is conceptualized and produced by a committee of lived experts who are former youth in care and advocates. Following on from the last episode, which focused on parenting experiences among former youth in care, this time it's Annie and Janis's turn to share how they conceptualize family and how their relationship with family is shaped by growing up without the regular presence of their biological parents. Since Annie and Janis had very different placement trajectories, their perspectives provide different possible visions of family and how family is built during and after placement into care. This episode is in French. You will find a translation of the full episode transcript in the show notes. We hope you enjoy listening to this episode as much as we enjoyed making it. Annie Hello, today we are with Janis and Annie, two former youth in care. Today, the topic we will be discussing is family. Janis decided to stay in touch with her biological family, while Annie decided to cut ties. That's what today's podcast will focus on. Janis Yes exactly. Annie, how did you decide to stop talking to your biological family? Can you explain why? And how? Annie To make a long story short, I was placed in foster care at the age of 2, and I went back and forth between my biological family and foster families several times. When you're young, you love your mom and dad, you love them, you carry them in your heart. They're still our parents, the people who matter most to us. But as you grow up, you lose some of that naivety and you understand certain things. For me, the realization came quite early, around the age of 10, I think. I understood that my parents, whom I now refer to as my progenitor, had not played their role of parents. That's how I started to distance myself from progenitors. But it's not like, you know, I say that, I call them my progenitors, but I didn't do that from the age of 10. I called them Mom and Dad in my everyday life, and it was only at the age of 25, during my last therapy sessions, that I decided to call them progenitors to differentiate between Luc and Pauline, who are now my family, the ones I consider my mother and father, but I don't call them Mom and Dad. It's something, it's a word I'm not really able to say, like I'll never tell you I'll never call my mother Pauline mom or Luc dad. When I have (called them mom or dad), I kind of reacted like, "Oh my God, I'm sorry..." They're like: “you know, it's okay.” I'm not an adopted child. That's something you should know too, that I wasn't adopted. It's something I wish Youth protection Services had permitted, for me to be adopted. To this day, my biological father is deceased and my biological mother is still alive, and then, It's still kind of heartbreaking, like, OK, is she OK, is she not OK? But at the same time, I haven't spoken to her in a long time, but on the one hand, I'm fine. But the little Annie inside me would like to hear from her, so that's kind of how I feel about my biological family and my family today. Janis Do you ever feel like talking to her even though you've cut off contact? Do you have any questions or things you'd like to ask her? Annie I would say that there are times when I catch myself thinking about her, but at the same time, I don't really want to know how she's doing. But the part of me that doesn't want to know how she's doing is really the grown-up Annie of today, on the cusp of 30, who doesn't need that toxic person in her life. But the little Annie deep down inside me is like, you know, I'd like her to care about me, to wonder how I'm doing, what I'm going to do with my life, what my favorite color is. Then you know, it's just about being interested in me because my mother always introduced me as, “hey, this is my daughter, she has beautiful eyes, and she's beautiful.” But I think my good, I think. I believe I have much more value than just my physical appearance. Yes, I am a beautiful woman, but I have skills, I have ambitions, I have dreams. It's something that when your family knows you at your core, they're usually interested in the person you want to become. Janis Yeah, it's not just about looks. Annie No, that's it, I mean, that's how it is today, too, it's all compliments. But I have more difficulties because I'm like, but I'm not just beautiful, I have other things, I have other things I'm capable of doing in life than just being beautiful, if you want to put it that way. But you're different from me. You decided to stay in touch with your biological parents. Why and how did you come to that decision? Janis Well, because when I was very young, my mother was a single parent. You should know that I have two brothers and a sister, but we're all half-siblings. So the brother who was with me and my mother is the one who raised me. There's a nine-year age difference between us. So he was like a father figure to me until I was nine. When he was nine, he placed himself into foster care, so he left, and my mother, since she had never really taken care of me and wasn't capable of taking care of a child, she sent me to a foster family. But throughout my placement, it was always the same. Sure, like I said earlier, she wasn't a very emotionally present mother, like she never understood my needs 100%. But she did provide me with all my basic physical needs. So if I needed, I don't know... Help with food, help with... You know, it was very material, she was my motherbut she was a rather superficial person. And she said so herself, for her, physical appearance is important. And that's something she passed on to me. For me, my physical appearance has become important, how I look. Because for her it's important, it was the first thing. Then after that, until I was 23 or 24, we kind of had a falling out, and now I'm a bit torn about whether I want to keep talking to her or not. Because I love her, I adore her. She's my mother. She did her best, and today, I understand why she is the way she is. You know, I know that at the end of the day, her goal was not to hurt me, but I know that she has her own demons that she hasn't healed. But in any case, it affects me so negatively that I have a hard time continuing in this situation. I have a hard time seeing myself, OK, but in the long run, what will a relationship like this lead to? Because it's toxic. In a way, it's like she still sees me as a child, she still treats me like Janis, 9 years old, before I was placed in foster care, so you know, it isn't a normal dynamic, if I can say that, between a mother and her child. we can't have normal conversations or she's not really interested in me and wants to build something solid. So that's why I love her the way I do, but at the same time, it really hurts me to keep talking to her. As for my father, I have no contact with him. I see him once in a while, but I don't want to have anything deep with him. You know, it's very superficial, like, "Hi, how are you? " I also have a little sister, she's 20 and I'm very close to her. I grew up with her from the age of 12 to 18. Then, when I was 18, I decided to move into an apartment, but we have such a special connection. I don't have that connection with anyone else in the family, and I really love her as if she were my baby. I don't know how to explain it. Right now, she's going through a difficult phase, and we're definitely a little more distant, but I feel that with time, when she gets older, when she understands things, you know, we'll reconnect and it'll be like it was before. And I have another brother, who is basically my father's son, and my little sister, who is my father's daughter. I don't see him as often because he lives far away, but I still have a normal relationship with him. And I'm in close contact with my father's side of the family, so when I see my aunts and uncles, I'm really happy. They ask me how I'm doing sometimes, but it's like once a year. So they're not very present. You know, they're not like, "Hey, are we going to do something this weekend? Are we going to the cottage? Are we going skiing?" No, we really just see each other at Christmas, and that's pretty much it. So for me, it's kind of hard to really have the connection I need with them. But at the same time, I need them in my life because I grew up with them. They've always been there in their own way. So I didn't feel like I had no one. Annie You have brothers and sisters, but so do I. I only found out I had brothers and sisters when I was a teenager. Well, I had my little brother who followed me, who followed me to my foster families before, and then later, at age 15, I found out that we were a large family. On my mother's side, there were eight of us, and on my father's side, there were nine. But I didn't know any of them. How did I find out? My mother took out the YOUTH PROTECTION files and put them on the table, saying, "Read this." It was a huge pile of paper, all the YOUTH PROTECTION files. Then I tried to connect with them during my teenage years. As a teenager, you're already trying to figure out who you are as a person. Imagine discovering that there are new people in your life, new members of your family. It's something that's quite shocking, shocking and challenging. And all that. Then you say, okay, I'll give it a shot, I'll find a place for them in my life. Then finally, after meeting some of these people, I realized that they're really toxic people who take advantage of you or want something from you. So I decided to cut ties with them completely, to not create any connection with them. Then I really reconsidered in 2018, when my father died. There was a request that people come to the funeral. And my siblings were there saying how my father was the perfect man. He was the dad who was there. He was full of love, he was there for his children. Then there was me, like, "But we don't live in the same world!" I mean, I experienced abuse, I experienced violence, I experienced that, and I I don't understand how you can love someone like that, but at the same time, I had forgiven my father for everything he put me through, telling myself that it was normal. Those were the years when I was most fragile. Then, during my therapy , I realized that what my father had done to me, whether in the bedroom, with his belt, or with the rulers, wasn't something a child is supposed to experience. It's not something a child should have to go through, so it's clear that it's not... They're not healthy people, that's not what family life is about, that's not it. That's not the love a father should give his child. But I realized that really late in life. But when I arrived at Luc and Pauline's house, I really bonded with Luc. I was really close to Luc, I did everything with Luc. Luc is really ambitious. He has plans, he's always running around, and you know, those who know me today, I can't sit still, and Luc and I are the same, we can't sit still. If we're sitting, it’s like: "Let's go, we've been sitting too long, let's do something!" And I'm that kind of person in life, always doing something, and relaxing is really difficult for me, but that's something Luc passed on to me, he's my foster dad, but he's my dad today, and he passed that on to me. And whenever I talk about my parents, I'll say Luc and Pauline, but that's it, I think that's... we... Our family is made up of the people we decide to put at the center of our lives. That's it. Janis How would you define the concept of family for young people who have been placed under the care of Youth Protection? Annie Well, I think, I would say that Youth Protection breaks up families, if you will, but that's not their goa,l of course. We can all agree that the Youth protection services want to ensure that young people are safe, and can return to their family environment if at all possible. But the thing is, when we young people are removed from our environment, we think it's our fault. We think we're the problem. But in the end, we're not the problem. Because most young people who are placed in foster care or in shelters or homes or institutions for young people, it's not because we're the problem, but because the problem started with parents who are unable to take care of their children, who didn't take their parental responsibilities seriously and who had children for whatever reason. Then they weren't able to take on their role as parents. So I think the word "family" is something very difficult to define because we don't have a family, we don't have the standard family model.. So we have to find our bearings to create that family, which we may never have known or don't know where to situate “family” in our lives. Because it's... If I take the example of myself in elementary school. For most kids, it was their mom or dad who picked them up from school, but for me, it wasn't my mom and dad who picked me up, it was like a guardian who picked me up to take me home, and it was, you know, it's like, "OK, well, I'm different from the others." Or, on weekends, there were family dinners and stuff like that, but I never experienced that before I came to live with Luc and Pauline, family events. So you know, before, I would see my friend who had gone shopping with my mom on the weekend, but I never really experienced going shopping with my mom before I came to Luc and Pauline's, where I would go with Pauline, we would go to little shops and then we would eat a chocolate bar and it was like, Oh, that was the best weekend activity! But that's it, it's about learning to make room for the people who are really good for you, who make you feel good, who can become your family. What about you? Janis Hmmm... I think it's complicated when you're a young person in foster care because often you know you've had toxic relationships with your biological family, you know. And this is really a generalization, but you've been raised in chaos. So when you've experienced that, later on in your relationships, subconsciously, that's kind of what you're going to look for. You know, you don't want chaos, but if you're not living in chaos, it's going to be so unfamiliar that you won't feel like you belong. So I feel like with the concept of family, you really have to work on yourself, and you really have to understand where you come from, and try to heal your traumas as much as possible, so that you can then be able to accept healthy relationships. I don't know if that's clear, I don't know if it makes sense. Annie Yes, in life you have to surround yourself with people who are good for you and remove relationships that are toxic. Janis But I feel like when you haven't done the work or when there are things you don't understand, you're not going to be drawn to healthy relationships. Since you haven't experienced that kind of thing in early life. Annie Yeah, of course you want to turn to people who are like you. And I think that's how we function in life, turning to people who are going through the same things or who have experienced the same things. You know what I mean, young people in care, often end up creating a sense of family with other former youth in care, because they can relate to what the you, as a former youth in care have been through. Janis Yeah, it's like a shared generational trauma. Annie Yeah. But there are also many whose past has shaped who they are today. Their past is still very, very present. And I would say that for me, it's really, you know, I mean, we don't all have the same resources, we may not have had the same level of support. But for example, for me, on that journey, I try to leave the past behind me as much as possible because it's too toxic for me. It makes me, it makes me feel a lot of emotions. And I don't want to always feel sorry for myself because I had this or that. But yes, I'm going to talk about it sometimes because it makes me the person I am today. And you know, now I understand why my mother was... why she acted that way, why my father acted the way he did. But when I say I understand... It's not... I understand because I understand their wounds, but they're repeating the same pattern they experienced. I'm the one who decided to break that pattern, to break that pattern of living in a healthier atmosphere. Janis I'm going to answer the question a bit differently. Annie Yeah...? Janis So, how can the concept of family be redefined? I think it's about breaking generational patterns and traumas. You know, not doing what your parents did. And now that you've seen what that leads to, you know, a toxic family, you can reach out to people or recreate a family, you know, with new foundations, new values, you know, really rebuilding something for the better. Annie For the better, Yeah. And I think it's really important to highlight that it's not the children's fault in the family situation. You know, I remember a meeting I had with my progenitors, And my “dad” said to me, "Annie, you're the pillar of the family. Thanks to you, we're a family." But I'm 16 at that point, I'm not supposed to be the pillar of the family. You know, the foundations should have been laid and upheld by my progenitors back then, not by me. I was like, I should have been the roof of the house, who's going to climb the ladder and live on into the future, all that. But instead I’m being the pillar, I'm the one supporting everyone. Like... as a child, you just have to learn to live and then, when you turn 18, you have to fly the nest. That's what it should have been. But that's not what my experience has been. So there you go. Janis Yeah, you were under a lot of pressure. Annie But that's how it was. Janis Having to grow up too fast. Annie Well, that's why we, youth in care, often mature too quickly, and then we skip parts of our lives that we should have perhaps lived more fully when we were young. Janis Well said. How can relationships with other people, whether friends or mentors, replace or complement what biological kinship cannot offer? Annie Well, I would say that... I always say that family is just, it's not a question. It's... like, my mother gave me life, she gave me some of her blood, but that's all. I don't mean to sound heartless, but she really just gave me life, that's all she did. But it's still a lot what she did, because otherwise I wouldn't be here today. But she didn't teach me anything about life. You know, I had to learn on my own, I had to learn from the people around me. And I think, you know, I was in foster care from age 2 to 10. And those people are no longer in my life today, but when I arrived at Luc and Pauline's house, who are now my parents and whom I consider my parents. You know, they worked hard, they made me the woman I am today. You know, they took the time to sit down with me. They took the time to listen to me. They took the time… Janis To get you to talk more? Annie To get me to talk, yes, that's something I didn't do before them, but to get me to talk, but also to take the time to be there for my successes. You know, when I first went to live with them, they made me repeat my fourth year. And you know, I was really angry. In fourth grade, we agree that it's still young, but I was like, I'm going to be the youngest in my class, the oldest in my class the following year. Then all summer long, Luc and Pauline bought a math workbook. I remember it was black and orange, I really remember the workbook, and every day I had to do math problems. And at first, I think it was like two or three problems a day, at first, I could spend the whole day at the table doing that, and I would cry and be like, don't make me do this, and it was like, whether you cry or you don't cry, like you don't want to do it, you're going to stay seated, you have to do it, you have to grow from this learning experience. We were going camping as a family. We brought my workbook, I did this the math problems on the camping picnic table. I sat it in the woods, and I had to do my math while my brothers and her foster family went to play in the pool or at the park. I did my problem. And as the weeks went by during the summer, well, it took me five minutes. I did my problem and then I had the whole day to myself. Because something just clicked. So when I started fourth grade again in September, I was the best in my class. I was the one who knew everything. So, you know, at first I was really angry. Then, when it got easier, I was really... My God, I can do this. And you know, Luc and Pauline didn't just give me a roof over my head, a room, and clothes; they gave me support, they encouraged me. You know, at school, Luc and Pauline always demanded I get grades of 70% or higher. At first, I was like, "Oh, that's ridiculous." But when I got 70% or higher, I was proud of myself. Then when I got below that, well, yes, it's true that I was like, "Oh, really? I failed to do well, I didn't succeed," but at least I understood more. Out of 100% of the material, I understood at least 70% of what we had to learn, I was, and still am, performing better than I absolutely needed to, and that's something they passed on to me too. And now, as the mother of a 2-year-old boy... You know, my model of a family, is Luc and Pauline. It's, you know, dinners at the table. For me, I think it's important to spend time with the family. I think it's important to go out, do things like that, and pass on something healthy to Mathis because the foundation of our family is me and Martin, not Mathis. So that's something that's really, really important to me. And I also think that family, once again, isn't about blood ties, because the person I consider my sister, my best friend, is Julie. She knows me inside out. And when I'm not doing well, when I'm doing well, she can tell. She's be able to tell me the truth, like a big sister would, on a daily basis. Today, Cassiel, who is my godson, is Julie's son, but that means we're a family. I mean, we're going to be together for life. And Julie is my son's godmother, so you know, we created this family, and yeah, Julie and I really have a certain chemistry that people don't understand. I mean, we see each other or call each other in the morning, we chat about life, but we'll see each other or talk again at the end of the afternoon, and we'll be like, we see each other in the morning, we chat about everything, but we'll see each other at the end of the afternoon, and we'll have as much to say to each other as if we hadn’t seen each other in the morning, and people were like, come on, that's crazy. And yeah, but that's how it is, we always have something to say. And we call each other all the time, we're always on FaceTime, you know, we really have a certain connection and we have it. We told our husbands when we met, like when she met her boyfriend, and when I met my boyfriend: “I'm becoming your girlfriend, but I just want to tell you that my best friend isn't far away, like she'll be in the background, and she'll approve a lot of decisions”, but that means that today she's my family, she's someone close to me. And I want to say, Julie and her parents are like my parents too, like we're close, I know them, I go to family dinners. Julie, my family knows Julie and vice versa. So it's really, she's part of my family, and the whole family that lives with Luc and Pauline. Well, you know, Pauline's mother and father, you know, they became my grandparents, the aunts who are there. You know, even today, Ben, my aunt Linda, Ben is Luc's sister. Ben, you know, I see her regularly, we talk. So all these people are really important, and also. It's just that Luc and Pauline when... I keep saying Luc. And Pauline, but it's Luc and Pauline, when we go into their foster family environment, we're not... They didn't tell the other family members... "Annie has been placed here for such and such a reason." It's like: Annie is at home, she's here so we can help her, so we can support her. Then as they grew up, they learned my story. Then it was like, "Oh, I see..." So you know, my aunt Linda, I see her regularly, and she's only come to know my story for just a few years now. Janis Yeah, sometimes it takes longer to tell them your story, yeah. I don't have any specific examples, maybe a few friends. But I would say that what mentors or friends have given me is emotional and psychological support. You know, I really missed out on that when I was younger, and the fact of feeling seen, listened to, understood too, that's something that helped me a lot. I think that the friends and mentors we have in our lives are people we've chosen, so they're often people we have more affinity with, more chemistry with, as you were saying with Julie, and they're people who see us for who we really are. You know, they're people who, I feel, love us for who we are, who sometimes see our value more than even we see for ourselves. And I feel like it's like... It fills a certain void that my family wasn't able to fill when I was growing up. You know, I say a lot that they're not present, but it's true that not only are they not physically present today, but also when I was younger, psychologically, emotionally, they weren't present nor were they emotionally intelligent people. It's a void I've had in my life. So meeting people today who see me for who I am, who make me feel listened to and understood, that really, really helps me heal, and to trust myself more and love myself more. Annie But I think it's also important to say that sometimes the people who are going to help us, who are going to accept us, are the ones who don't label us as "a ward of the state." And it feels good in society not to feel different from others, because people are often like, "Oh, they're a ward of that state, that's why they..."; But in the end, we have basic needs, and other needslike everyone else, in the sense that we just want to be loved and appreciated for our true worth. Well, I think you know today, you know, Luc and Pauline, I mean Julie and my in-laws, you know, they're people who accept me for who I am now, in the present day. And even if I've been through this or that, it doesn't change anything in how they see me, in the person I am today. And again, it also informs the image we want to project, well, the image I want to project- that young people care can absolutely succeed in life. So, that's something I really want to promote and... But that's it, to change this image that young people in care won't succeed, and that we're really different. You know, we can build ourselves up, we can rebuild ourselves and move forward. Janis Yeah, I really feel like society has a negative perception of young people who are in care or who leave care. You know, they often think we're bums or that we'll end up homeless or that we have no ambition, that we'll be on welfare our whole lives. You know, it's often really negative stuff. But talking about it like we are today, you know, talking about our dreams, saying where we are in life, I think small actions like that can change society's perception. Then at one point, someone asked me, are there people who feel sorry for you or who have felt sorry for you because you were a ward of the state? And I was like, yeah, in my own family some people think that way, you know, because whether you like it or not, on my father's side, my father is the black sheep. You know, he's the only one in the family whose children were placed into care. All his other brothers and sisters have done well in life. They have good jobs, they're highly educated, they're mentally healthy, and their children are doing well. So my grandmother, you know, she feels sorry for us when she sees that. She's like, “oh my God, my only son has failed.” Plus, he's her only son. Every time she sees me, my grandmother is like: "I'm so proud of you, it wasn't easy, was it? How did you get through all that?" Yes, I find that nice because she has compassion. But at the same time, I'm like, I don't want to be seen like that my whole life. Yes, I didn't have it easy, yes my father had the life he had, but at some point, you also have to look at who I am today and what I've accomplished. You can't just look at what I didn't have. Annie But you see, I find that... You know, on the one hand, your grandmother reacts like that, I find that... It's good, but at the same time, on my side, no one cared where I was when I was taken into care. Since I don't have any family who came to me and said, "Oh, you could come stay with me”. Because usually, before placement into other care arrangement, they usually try and place you with a family member, such as an aunt, a grandmother, a grandparent. But that never happened for me. No one decided to take me under their wing to help me. It's only at 16-17 years old that family members revealed: “Ah, we knew you existed, but…” Well, basically “we knew you existed” but nothing else. OK, so you waited 16 years of my life to tell me you were alive, that you were my sister, that you were my brother. And meanwhile, I was just trying to survive in this crazy world, trying to understand what I had been and was being put through... I thought I only had a mother and a father. So you know, the whole cousin thing, grandparents, I didn't really know what that was like when I was young. It was only really when I arrived at Luc and Pauline's house that I understood that family wasn't just a mother and a father. But that's just it. There's no one who decided to help me. You know, today, well, I decided to cut ties with members of my bio family because it's... you know, people telling me that I think I'm better than others because I went to school and worked to get a good job. I don’t need that. I'm like, well, I helped myself and that’s what got me to where I am today. That's what I often say to people, well, to young people who are like, but I don't have this, that, that... well, I didn't have all that either, handed to me on a silver platter. I worked, and above all, I took the help that came my way, you know? Someone reached out to me, and I accepted it. And that's how I think the people who make up your family are, a little bit like that, they want to help you, they're there for you, and they want to see you grow and move forward in life. Janis What role does family or chosen family play in your future plans? Annie Well, I became a mother. I became Mathis's mom in 2022. It was a dream that, despite everything I had been through, I cherished from the bottom of my heart. Then, when I became a mother, I was told that trauma from my past might re-emerge from the fact of becoming a parent, that I would relive things that had affected me deeply. Matisse, is now 2 years old, and at the age of 2, that's when I was put into care, it was my first placement. So right now, I would say that it's a bit of a challenging period, as I sometimes doubt my role as a mother and wonder if Matisse will have a good life. You know, those are the questions I ask myself, but at the same time, I know that Mathis is in good hands. I mean, I'm a great mom. I'm really there for my son, but at the same time, I look at Mathis, and I think, well, at that age, my body was covered in bruises. And you know, I had things that were difficult, but again, I look at Matisse and the only thing I want to do is give him big hugs and kisses, play with him, and all that. So sometimes I don't understand. Once again, little Annie doesn't understand, why my progenitors put me through all of that. When I was in my twenties, I'd give talks in schools, and at the end ofone talk, a lady came up to me. She told me she was really touched by my story and that she would write to me on Facebook. She wrote to me on Facebook, and we chatted and exchanged messages. It was really strange, you know, not strange in a bad way, but she said, know how it's really strange, like there are so many similarities in our families. So we're talking and she says, "Do you know so-and-so?" And I'm like, you know, I don't really know my biological family, so I have no idea. We keep talking and talking. Well this woman has a name, her name is Nancy. So turns out Nancy is my cousin, but my biological cousin. And her father is my mother's brother. It's like life really do work out so well, so Nancy and I decided to stay in touch, and we're still in touch today, and I met her father, who is my mother's brother, and I was able to find answers about why my mother was like that, and why she did certain things. And you know, Nancy's dad told me that he had cut ties with my mother because she was taking advantage of the system and having children for the money. Because every time they took a child away from her, it was like, no big deal, I'll just have another one. So I knew I was made for financial benefits. I'm at peace with that decision today, but also, I know I was create and born for financial gain, and that's why she gave me life. And you knos, as the young girl I used to be, that's the question I often asked myself. Why am I here, why was I born, why am I part of this world? Why give me life and then leave me to my own devices? I didn't ask for any of this, and yet I was made to live through it all. And the only reason I can understand is that you just wanted to have children for money, but now I have trauma and I have wounds, I have scars. It's a crime. You could have just not given me life. And you know find another way to make money, like getting a job. Janis You're really strong to see look at it like that. If it were me, I’d be… Annie …But also like that, during an activity that you and I did together, there was a man who shared how much he didn't understand how we could come to call our mother and father “progenitor”, and that he was frustrated, and then he looked me straight in the eye and said, "How would you react if your son called you a procreator? " And you know, I'm still reeling from it today. I feel like if Mathis ever called me that, I will have failed in my role as a mother, even though I give 110% every day with Mathis to live up to being a good mom, that one day he would call me that because...Well, I really don’t think it will turn out that way… Like, I decided to have a child, and I'm going to take care of him until I can't take care of him anymore, which is to say until I'm in my grave. I want Mathis to have... I want Mathis to have a family life, the family life that I would have liked to have had from the age of 2 onward. And you know, they often say that the emotional bond starts when you're a baby, so I'm that bond. At age 2, the only bond we need, is mainly the closeness of our parents, the warmth, the love I never had. So now, you know, it makes me kind of emotionally dependent, and I always need to be reassured. I need to, but you know, today I'm able to work on that. Janis Yeah, it's about learning to live with it, and that takes time—it's normal. Annie Yes. And I don't want to recreate the same pattern. You know, Mathis, I don't want him to experience the same "shit " that I did. And, like, yes, right now, it's hard in some ways, in the sense that I see him growing up. And I'm like, Oh my God, I went through things like that! It's hard for me because I'm reliving things from my past, but I know Mathis won't go through that. And that's okay, it's 100% okay! Janis Yeah! Annie It's 100% fine, but... That's it. And you know, like Mathis, he's a little baby, well he's a little... He's a spoiled little boy. He's really spoiled. Then I. It's something that Martin and I are like, he'll know that he's spoiled, and that he's really lucky to have a family that loves him, buys him things, and is there for him. And that's something that in life, you always have to be grateful to those around you. And I'm super grateful that my mother-in-law, and Aunt Sylvie, and my parents look after Mathis when we need them to, and that they are there to help us and make us meals because sometimes during the week we can't manage, because Mathis is sick, because I'm tired, or whatnot. So that's what family is all about, supporting each other when times are tough, but also being there when things are good and everything is going well. So that's it. Janis I have a difficult question, you don't have to answer... Annie Go ahead, yeah…. Janis If child protective services came back into your life to take Mathis away, how would you feel? Annie Oh wow, that would be like…. I would have failed somewhere, for sure. But I would really... I can't even imagine Mathis being taken away from me. I don't understand how my parents agreed to have their own children taken away from them. I mean, I go away for a weekend to a cabin with my best friend or with friends, and you know, my God, I miss my son. If he were taken away from me permanently, every day? I would have really failed as a mother. No! I can't even imagine Mathis being taken away from me. It's something that, that... No, I... No, I can't answer you any other way. It really makes me feel so... It gets to me, it's... You can't take Mathis away from me. And you know, when you're a mom, you wonder a little bit about what you were like before you were a mom. Like, what did I do before I had a child? It's like I don't know anymore. You know, there are a lot of people who, well, a lot... our family members like to look after Mathis, and they enjoy having him for a few days, and it's good for me because I can rest, but sometimes I feel like, Ah, I have a day off, what in the world will I do? But it's also about taking the time to rediscover myself as a woman and as a person, because before I was a mom, I was someone. Well, I am someone, I am a woman, I am a friend, I am a partner, I am... am a friend. So, that's also about finding a certain balance in who I am as a person. Janis And from what I understand, how you see the future with Mathis and with your family is that you want to create something you would have liked to have had as a child, is that right? Annie Yes. I want to, you know, I want to raise Mathis as best I can, and you know my role models are definitely Luc and Pauline in terms of what they taught me, whether it's in...Whether it's succeeding in school or, you know, just giving an example, but you know, let's say Luc, who's really good with his hands, he works in construction and has his own business. But you know, Luc, before he starts a project, he always makes a plan, always a plan on paper, you make a draft. But today, I'm like that, I'll make a draft and then I'll execute my plan. Because I already have a foundation, so these are things I want to focus on with Mathis, but I also want Matisse to have happy childhood memories, filled with love. And you know what? I want that. Once again, I say that Mathis is really spoiled because I mean, my life isn't just about getting gifts, but it's about those precious moments with family that I would have liked to have had. It's family dinners. And Christmas isn't just about gifts, and it's not just Santa Claus saying, "Oh, I'm bringing you lots of gifts." But you know, it's family dinners, it's games during the evening. It's about sharing, taking the time to connect with the people you love, and that's really important. Janis For me? For me, I would say that since things are a little unclear right now, my relationship with my family is about accepting them the way they are today and not expecting too much. Not to hope that overnight they'll be more present or that it will be more reciprocal. Just to accept the situation as it is and, for my part, focus on the people who are there for me, my friends. Maybe eventually I'll be in a relationship, and then I'll be able to start my own family, but really focus on the people who show me they love me and with whom I can really invest my time in the long term. Annie That's beautiful. What advice would you give to young people who are perhaps searching for themselves? Who are trying to find their place in society, who are trying to build themselves up, build a world around them? Janis I would say that it's really about taking the time to get to know yourself. I think that's what really helps lay the foundation. Then you can build your own path. What about you? Annie Well, I say, once again, it's about trusting in life. I think that life is still good despite the obstacles. And I say that in life, nothing happens for no reason. It's something I say every day, and I still believe it. If your parents are no longer your parents, there's something else in store for you. If you've decided that they're no longer your parents, there's something else that's going to happen. Someone will come along at the right time and be there for you. Because, you know, we all end up alone, we're all going to die alone, but in our lives today, we have the right to be surrounded by people and to receive all the love we need.
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