Distinctive Christianity

221. Jeff Strong on LDS Disaffiliation, Why It's Happening - and Why It Matters

In this interview, we welcome Jeff Strong to discuss his book Torn: Why People We Love Are Leaving the Church and What We Can Learn From Them [https://www.amazon.com/Torn-People-Leaving-Church-Learn/dp/B0GWVV4DW9/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.fLn6DqXFQHO1qqhngd1j4J3cIjY0WLH5FsJSpQzq7Tj9rBwZc5qFkZf1upV-TShR.FjkxUUgLDW20-XQxymlpW2qkPAGbD-a4C1BTFR4O0vA&dib_tag=se&keywords=Jeff+Strong+Torn&qid=1778731764&sr=8-1]. What is disaffiliation, and how does it differ from inactivity? Drawing on extensive study and experience – as well as qualitative and quantitative research, we seek to understand truly what is happening when it comes to LDS disaffiliation, and why. Do we know how many once active and faithful Latter-Day Saints have disaffiliated and transitioned away from the LDS Church? Taking us through this answer – and seeking to properly understand it against the contextual backdrop of religion in America more generally, we then seek to understand why they have left. Describing the four main reasons as “waves”, we learn about how issues of Lifestyle, Church History, Social Issues and Church Experience have ranked in how people have identified their reasons for leaving. Listen in as Jeff takes us through this and how and why there has been a shift in what people have prioritized when it comes to the “primary pathways” that have “shaped religious conversion and commitment”. Moreover, we discuss some of the cultural tensions that religious communities face today – as well as a discussion of how to evaluate what is and what should be essential shared doctrinal confession and moral behavior at the base of the community. Book: Torn: Why People We Love Are Leaving the Church and What We Can Learn From Them [https://www.amazon.com/Torn-People-Leaving-Church-Learn/dp/B0GWVV4DW9/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.fLn6DqXFQHO1qqhngd1j4J3cIjY0WLH5FsJSpQzq7Tj9rBwZc5qFkZf1upV-TShR.FjkxUUgLDW20-XQxymlpW2qkPAGbD-a4C1BTFR4O0vA&dib_tag=se&keywords=Jeff+Strong+Torn&qid=1778731764&sr=8-1] Website: tornbyjeffstrong.com [https://www.tornbyjeffstrong.com/] Any feedback please send to distinctivechristianity@gmail.com Other resources: “LDS Church sees a record rise in converts, but why are fewer babies being added to the rolls?” [https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2026/04/04/lds-church-reports-record/] by Mark Eddington (The Salt Lake Tribune) The Next Mormons by Jana Riess "Closing Remarks" [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2019/10/57nelson?lang=eng] by President Russell M. Nelson Shaman and Sage by Michael Horton Spiritual Marketplace by Wade Clark Roof The American Religious Landscape; The Nones; The Vanishing Church by Ryan Burge Ligonier: The State of Theology Survey [https://thestateoftheology.com/] Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen [https://redcircle.com/shows/distinctive-christianity/ep/a7174969-2dfb-4884-86b5-ca104c1d77ac] No Place for Truth; The Courage to Be Protestant by David Wells The Westminster Confession of Faith, Ch. 25 [https://thewestminsterstandard.org/the-westminster-confession/#Chapter%20XXV] OPC Book of Church Order [https://opc.org/order.html]

220. Shelby Fisher on Tracy Young Cannon and LDS Hymnody

In this episode, we welcome Dr. Shelby Fisher to discuss her book Tracy Y. Cannon: Tabernacle Organist and Pioneering Musician, 1879-1961 [https://www.amazon.com/Tracy-Cannon-Tabernacle-Pioneering-1879-1961/dp/1560855312/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3I9576AZML8OX&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.S_2L-IZQARHOQdDhszpUi60lpuoRqsKSvIcuwWbYfu3soQaVoxLOwWl8oOlKcUZ9ygq43KhNPii8k1A3hIXhYjca9wup2_PQ_EJaXx1zQnPRcZlVBnX_5n4qhv7KXQtVFflIoLdV3OZTiSmZeYGKTXfS_1dTPG6Mp_grLlIaMvP8Ebhkk55P4RT33f6268r0.DpTzOzGohiSTUgnhb3O4CXb-A1Bm7-EFHpFSwJLl910&dib_tag=se&keywords=Tracy+Y.+Cannon&qid=1770154284&sprefix=tracy+y.+cann%2Caps%2C276&sr=8-1]. Who was Tracy Young Cannon, and why does he matter? A highly-trained organist and accomplished musician, Tracy Cannon had a huge impact on the musical landscape of the LDS Community – both in his work as an educator, as well as his work on the General Music Committee that helped shape the development of LDS Hymnody and the music environment of Sunday services. Having trained under many then-famous experts in organ, piano and composition, Tracy Cannon had a vision of a more refined and improved musical culture among his people. This was even showcased by his playing public recitals on the famous Tabernacle organ for decades, for the enjoyment of member and non-member alike. Listen in as Dr. Fisher takes us through a tour of the development of LDS hymnody, from the Latter-day Saints Psalmody (of 1889) through to the Latter-day Saint Hymns (of 1927) to the official Hymns: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints of 1948. Tracy Young Cannon wrote the music for several of the hymns for the LDS church and people – including hymns like “Come, Rejoice”, “Praise the Lord with Heart and Voice”, and “How Beautiful Thy Temples, Lord”. In addition, Tracy Cannon wrote The Organist’s Manual – which aided in the improvement of the musical quality of wards throughout the LDS Church, which then had the organ as their official instrument for Sunday services. This tour will include names well-known and some less known, including a major part played by President Heber J. Grant, both in the desire for theological clarity when it comes to worship music – as well as his founding of the General Music Committee in 1920. Book: Tracy Y. Cannon: Tabernacle Organist and Pioneering Musician, 1879-1961 [https://www.amazon.com/Tracy-Cannon-Tabernacle-Pioneering-1879-1961/dp/1560855312/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3I9576AZML8OX&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.S_2L-IZQARHOQdDhszpUi60lpuoRqsKSvIcuwWbYfu3soQaVoxLOwWl8oOlKcUZ9ygq43KhNPii8k1A3hIXhYjca9wup2_PQ_EJaXx1zQnPRcZlVBnX_5n4qhv7KXQtVFflIoLdV3OZTiSmZeYGKTXfS_1dTPG6Mp_grLlIaMvP8Ebhkk55P4RT33f6268r0.DpTzOzGohiSTUgnhb3O4CXb-A1Bm7-EFHpFSwJLl910&dib_tag=se&keywords=Tracy+Y.+Cannon&qid=1770154284&sprefix=tracy+y.+cann%2Caps%2C276&sr=8-1] Hymns of which Tracy Y. Cannon wrote the tune, and two of which he also wrote the text: - “Come, Rejoice” [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/music/songs/come-rejoice?lang=eng] (also here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtzEqQOjFh8]) - “God of Power, God of Right” [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/music/songs/god-of-power-god-of-right?lang=eng] - “Praise the Lord with Heart and Voice” [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/music/songs/praise-the-lord-with-heart-and-voice?lang=eng] (also here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcd_d0qoN0I]) - “The Lord Be With Us” [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/music/songs/the-lord-be-with-us?lang=eng] - “Come, Let Us Sing an Evening Hymn” [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/music/songs/come-let-us-sing-an-evening-hymn?lang=eng] - “Jesus, Mighty King in Zion” [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/music/songs/jesus-mighty-king-in-zion?lang=eng] - “How Beautiful Thy Temples, Lord” [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/music/songs/how-beautiful-thy-temples-lord?lang=eng] “Sing What We Believe” [https://archive.org/details/improvementera1509unse/page/784/mode/2up] by Elder Heber J. Grant “Farewell Address of Apostle Heber J. Grant” [https://archive.org/details/improvementera0409unse/page/682/mode/2up] Hymns: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints [https://archive.org/details/hymns-1948] (1948) - “O My Father” [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/hymns/o-my-father?lang=eng] (also here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giESaOULmU0]) George Q. Cannon: Politician, Publisher, Apostle of Polygamy by Kenneth Cannon II [https://redcircle.com/shows/distinctive-christianity/ep/2b2cf615-7d10-4aad-b666-ddeb695841cf] Eduardo Balderas: Father of Church Translation, 1907-1989 by Ignacio Garcia [https://redcircle.com/shows/distinctive-christianity/ep/9b1021cc-228e-45c3-ba3b-4bdb751e44b8] A sample of Alberto Jonas [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Bx1HfGklk], Alexandre Guilmant [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU5oeXVtEUE] (and here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU5oeXVtEUE]), and Pietro Yon [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P817eU9MG4I] (and here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU5oeXVtEUE]) The English Hymn: Its Development and Use by Louis Benson

219. Daniel Stevens on Reading the Psalms with the Author of Hebrews

In this episode, we welcome Dr. Daniel Stevens to discuss his book Songs of the Son: Reading the Psalms with the Author of Hebrews [https://www.amazon.com/Songs-Son-Reading-Psalms-Hebrews/dp/1433592134/ref=sr_1_1?crid=19SI5LXVS8821&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.MtpIumjoOz5EblhS1_xK4TomxcRC-t7DzA3jG32oBLcemm_xC9h4QfVJjxXT4A9MA1LVjMH_2GD57DA3JN90VgxBLGf183xWbatf9EhRl7E-yLHdrtjx2MzGT8nwP0vTmj5ONviSgG4OthvC1QP2NQakx4feOF9H9hi_YZbFWtm4jXzLUnmM4cxqXwBXRrfwRT2QdX4XMljIFhjfgLoBLuaz-ePDbDpr0QuPuntgyAc.30TbCptA17Iw6iAi3JniGze6cpxMz9Gf21U1Bimrq9c&dib_tag=se&keywords=Songs+of+the+Son&qid=1770051087&sprefix=songs+of+the+%2Caps%2C597&sr=8-1]. Starting with the issue of how truly interconnected are the Old and New Testaments, we ask about how the Psalms should help us to see the Bible, in its diversity, as a unified whole. Is Christ Jesus objectively in the Psalms or is the New Testament often a collection of subjective reader-responses (with privilege)? What is the teaching of Hebrews on the matter, how does the author view the Psalms - and why does this matter when it comes to the claims of Christ? Listen in as we ask Dr. Stevens about “prosopological exegesis”, and how we can see that the one God who speaks in the Epistle includes and involves the personal voices of Father, Son and Holy Spirit – with even glimpses into the Father and the Son speaking to each other, and God the Holy Spirit speaking to the congregation. Why is the “divine conversation” between God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit key to the entire argument of the Epistle to the Hebrews, as a whole? Moreover, we hear this play out in how the Psalms point to Christ Jesus, and how the author of Hebrews helps us see greater clarity and resolution in the Psalms given the life, death, resurrection and exaltation of Jesus. The God-man himself is the source and substance of any hope fallen and sinful man has in entering the true Promised Land and being reconciled with the unique and sovereign God who created all things and upholds them in His power. Moreover, perhaps the pattern Hebrews models directly impacted the early Church’s Creeds, both in terms of doctrine and grammar. Book: Songs of the Son: Reading the Psalms with the Author of Hebrews [https://www.amazon.com/Songs-Son-Reading-Psalms-Hebrews/dp/1433592134/ref=sr_1_1?crid=19SI5LXVS8821&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.MtpIumjoOz5EblhS1_xK4TomxcRC-t7DzA3jG32oBLcemm_xC9h4QfVJjxXT4A9MA1LVjMH_2GD57DA3JN90VgxBLGf183xWbatf9EhRl7E-yLHdrtjx2MzGT8nwP0vTmj5ONviSgG4OthvC1QP2NQakx4feOF9H9hi_YZbFWtm4jXzLUnmM4cxqXwBXRrfwRT2QdX4XMljIFhjfgLoBLuaz-ePDbDpr0QuPuntgyAc.30TbCptA17Iw6iAi3JniGze6cpxMz9Gf21U1Bimrq9c&dib_tag=se&keywords=Songs+of+the+Son&qid=1770051087&sprefix=songs+of+the+%2Caps%2C597&sr=8-1] Other resources by Dr. Stevens [https://boycecollege.com/academics/faculty/daniel-stevens/]: - The Theme of Promise in the Epistle to the Hebrews: A Promise Remains [https://www.amazon.com/Theme-Promise-Epistle-Hebrews-Testament-ebook/dp/B0DVPRHFWD?psc=1&ref_=ast_author_dp&th=1] - “More Than Red Letters: Jesus’s Teaching Across the New Testament” [https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/red-letters-new-testament/] (TGC) - “Is It Valid? A Case for the Repunctuation in Hebrews 9:17” [https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.15699/jbl.1374.2018.454697] (JBL) Other resources: Divine Discourse in the Epistle to the Hebrews by Madison Pierce The Paradox of Sonship: Christology in the Epistle to the Hebrews by R.B. Jamieson The Royal Priest: Psalm 110 in Biblical Theology by Matthew Emadi [https://redcircle.com/shows/distinctive-christianity/ep/0fd5aa64-e913-41ca-b11a-2687c72490bd] God, Grace, and Righteousness in Wisdom of Solomon and Paul’s Letter to the Romans: Texts in Conversation by Jonathan Linebaugh Uncovering the Theme of Revelation in Romans 1:16-3:26 by Marcus Mininger [https://redcircle.com/shows/distinctive-christianity/ep/d6ae7332-58ed-4619-af87-9bb94c64f425] “King Follett Discourse” [http://www.ldslearning.org/lds-king-follett-discourse-a-newly-amalgamated-text-byu.pdf]; “The Sermon in the Grove” [https://emp.byui.edu/jexj/courses/sermon_in_the_grove.htm] by President-Prophet Joseph Smith - See also D&C 93 [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/93?lang=eng], 132 [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/132?lang=eng]; JST John 1 [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/jst/jst-john/1?lang=eng]; Abraham 3 [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/abr/3?lang=eng], 4 [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/abr/4?lang=eng] “Be Ye Therefore Perfect” [https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/spencer-w-kimball/ye-therefore-perfect/] by LDS President-Prophet Spencer W. Kimball Wrestling the Angel; The God Who Weeps by Terryl Givens [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg_8axJgE_4]

218. Matt O'Reilly on Free to Be Holy

In this episode, we welcome Dr. Matt O’Reilly to discuss his book Free To Be Holy: A Biblical Theology of Sanctification [https://www.amazon.com/Free-Be-Holy-Matt-OReilly/dp/B0D9WXHCMH/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1O6Z7OK6NRRJ4&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.9oA3wrW6OjcWff_6QyCSc8BxlrU1j43STJsORBud-M3cVgf35notMq8vvINE-IsNquGJAO9RrND9a9px01Wsm3Uhxo3qEyEjFxkVFFs8h6D1d65Z-421dHghuz7Yxc0Uk_hB9W1fhSHWrox5tYNLkVoDlewch3jJ4C_wQJ7GjIXM44pkLZpNy2p90x31YCYqY4mBhv_a6SmNPgu1FJ4lVu16fvmK6SUPiwZ9WFowMsg.0bnqO_p2Fw34nraEs_O9NSwDRyIovqehEybHHxPZN-U&dib_tag=se&keywords=Matt+O%26%2339%3BReilly&qid=1773066589&sprefix=matt+o%26%2339%3Breil%2Caps%2C361&sr=8-1]. What is biblical holiness – and how does biblical holiness relate to the Gospel of Grace? What does it mean to “be holy” as God is holy, and what is the role of God, the Holy Spirit in the sanctification of the believer? From the Garden of Eden to Isaiah 6, and from the “Holiness Code” of Leviticus to our Savior’s Sermon on the Mount, Dr. O’Reilly argues that holiness is an “integrative doctrine” - aiding the attentive reader to understand one of the deep threads of Bible, from our creation in the image of God to being conformed to the image of Christ. How do we properly understand holiness and sanctification without compromising the Gospel of Grace? Does man have a “sin nature”? And when Christ calls us to “be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect” – how do we properly understand the text, in context? Listen in as Dr. O’Reilly helps deepen our understanding of God, man, sin, nature – and the entire purpose God has for those who are made in his image and likeness. Book: Free To Be Holy: A Biblical Theology of Sanctification [https://www.amazon.com/Free-Be-Holy-Matt-OReilly/dp/B0D9WXHCMH/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1O6Z7OK6NRRJ4&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.9oA3wrW6OjcWff_6QyCSc8BxlrU1j43STJsORBud-M3cVgf35notMq8vvINE-IsNquGJAO9RrND9a9px01Wsm3Uhxo3qEyEjFxkVFFs8h6D1d65Z-421dHghuz7Yxc0Uk_hB9W1fhSHWrox5tYNLkVoDlewch3jJ4C_wQJ7GjIXM44pkLZpNy2p90x31YCYqY4mBhv_a6SmNPgu1FJ4lVu16fvmK6SUPiwZ9WFowMsg.0bnqO_p2Fw34nraEs_O9NSwDRyIovqehEybHHxPZN-U&dib_tag=se&keywords=Matt+O%26%2339%3BReilly&qid=1773066589&sprefix=matt+o%26%2339%3Breil%2Caps%2C361&sr=8-1] Also, by Dr. O’Reilly [https://wbs.edu/faculty/matt-oreilly/]: Reconstructing Methodism: Crucial Issues Facing the Global Methodist Church Paul and the Resurrected Body: Social Identity and Ethical Practice Other resources: Christianity and Liberalism by J. Gresham Machen Against God and Nature: The Doctrine of Sin by Thomas McCall Desiring the Kingdom; Imagining the Kingdom by James K. A. Smith Paul and the Person: Reframing Paul’s Anthropology by Susan Grove Eastman The Holiness of God by R.C. Sproul [https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL30acyfm60fVpGc7Eo--3S6w1kdhXY9Cb&v=eIGAjoqBhhU] Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Harold B. Lee [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-harold-b-lee/chapter-21?lang=eng] The Miracle of Forgiveness by President Spencer W. Kimball (also here [https://redcircle.com/shows/distinctive-christianity/ep/cb7fa84b-1871-4ded-810a-7ff8406d95e8]) “Call to the Holy Apostleship” [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1984/04/call-to-the-holy-apostleship?lang=eng] by President (then-Elder) Russell M. Nelson [https://redcircle.com/shows/distinctive-christianity/ep/5299bdcf-e59a-4c8c-8d5a-e34b77b51fff] 1 Ne. 3:7 [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/3?lang=eng]; D&C 82:7 [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/82?lang=eng]; 130:20-21 [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/130?lang=eng] Scourby: Romans [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o91Jp1JENtw]; Isaiah [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyFpmO3IMHM]; Matthew [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHvCzDGgvuQ]

217. Paul Gutacker on The Old Faith in a New Nation

In this episode, we welcome Dr. Paul Gutacker to discuss his book The Old Faith in a New Nation: American Protestants and the Christian Past [https://www.amazon.com/Old-Faith-New-Nation-Protestants/dp/0197639151/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.9DjqsQkoObgaEDcmN5MZfAWaB0erpNDjy7VEE5-Vn1hooExZsm75C7pjJEwwpfvX.zw6j-Ykc2PvJ3WPhlSPClqrpQlzrG_yGm-1NJ71J9zU&dib_tag=se&qid=1772589229&sr=8-2]. Given a construct of “biblicism” - the standard narrative of American evangelicalism often assumes or involves the ahistoric and anti-traditional. Yet, as Dr. Gutacker both argues and writes: “American Protestants never read, or argued over, the Bible alone.” What was the place, role, and priority of the past in the polemics of early American history? Indeed, how does the key role that history played in the arguments all throughout the period of 1780-1864 contribute to a proper understanding of the “democratization of American Christianity”? What were the sources so often studied and cited in debates among all the Christian denominations – as well as their historiographical tendencies and patterns of analysis? From many of the Founding Fathers to Baptist minister James P. Boyce and the founding of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary – to even Restorationism, or the “Christian movement” - the arguments among Christians are saturated with appeals to history, and past Christian thinkers. Indeed, “religious memory contributed to denominational competition”. Moreover, far from “biblicism” alone leading to an inevitable impasse during the crisis surrounding the Civil War, tradition was no more able to settle the debates regarding slavery and even the place of the Church, either. Listen in as we hear Dr. Gutacker take us into this, and even more regarding questions of the Great Tradition, the place of history, and even how the blind spots of the past may help us be more sensitive to the blind spots of the present. Book: The Old Faith in a New Nation: American Protestants and the Christian Past [https://www.amazon.com/Old-Faith-New-Nation-Protestants/dp/0197639151/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.9DjqsQkoObgaEDcmN5MZfAWaB0erpNDjy7VEE5-Vn1hooExZsm75C7pjJEwwpfvX.zw6j-Ykc2PvJ3WPhlSPClqrpQlzrG_yGm-1NJ71J9zU&dib_tag=se&qid=1772589229&sr=8-2] Also check out: Brazos Fellows [https://www.brazosfellows.com/staff--team.html] The Democratization of American Christianity by Nathan O. Hatch The Civil War as a Theological Crisis by Mark Noll How To Think by Alan Jacobs Dominion by Tom Holland Evangelicals and Tradition by D. H. Williams The Spirit of Early Christian Thought; Liberty in the Things of God by Robert Louis Wilken “General History of the Baptist Denomination” [https://archive.org/details/generalhistoryof02bene/page/n3/mode/1up] by David Benedict