Industrial Growth Institute

Objection Handling - Overcoming Buyers' Epistemological Truths with Ed Marsh

Why can't successful industrial leaders change — even when they know they should? It's not stubbornness. It's not bias. It's something deeper: their beliefs aren't opinions — they're truths. And you can't argue with truth. How often is that dissonance the real source of buyer objections? Understanding epistemological truths — and how to work with them instead of against them — is the key to unlocking change in your company and in your buyers. In this solo Episode #76, host Ed Marsh explores why middle-market industrial companies struggle to adapt, even when the evidence for change is overwhelming, and lays out five practical strategies for navigating buyers' deeply held beliefs. Summary In this episode, Ed Marsh introduces the concept of epistemological truths — beliefs grounded in real evidence and experience that function as unassailable truth for the person holding them. He explains why these truths, not simple bias, are the real barrier to change in middle-market manufacturing companies. Using eleven common examples from industrial sales and marketing, Ed shows how two people can hold completely contradictory yet fully justified truths — and why that makes traditional persuasion useless. He then presents five strategies for working with epistemological truths rather than against them: * Explore whether their truths are delivering the outcomes they need * Surface contradictory evidence without attacking the belief * Test predictions that their truths imply * Run premortems comparing outcomes under different assumptions * Follow a truth to its logical conclusion to reveal gaps Takeaways * What we call "bias" in business is often epistemological truth - beliefs backed by real evidence and experience * You cannot hold two contradictory truths simultaneously, which is why change feels impossible * The traits that made founders and Gen2 leaders successful become their ceiling * Telling buyers they're wrong doesn't work - their truth is as justified as yours * Companies that repeat the same messaging as competitors get deflected by buyers' existing truths * Consultative sales and marketing must help buyers examine whether their truths serve their goals * Creating new recognition beats forcing confrontation every time * The political polarization analog applies directly to B2B sales conversations * Sales reps who bring business acumen and outcomes focus can reach CEOs; those peddling specs cannot * 84% of the time vendors are contacted, the spec doesn't change - so create projects, don't just find them * Five practical strategies can help you navigate buyers' epistemological truths without attacking them Takeaway Quote from Ed Marsh * "Stop trying to convince buyers they're wrong. Start helping them discover whether their truths are serving their goals." LinkedIn: Ed Marsh [https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwardbmarsh/] Twitter: Ed Marsh [https://x.com/edbmarsh] Instagram: Ed Marsh [https://www.instagram.com/edbmarsh/] YouTube: @EdMarsh [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFA0TrzwVPYe3WrYH_459Og] Show Transcript  [https://edmarshconsulting.com/hubfs/Industrial%20Growth%20Institute%20Podcast/epistomological-truths-and-objection-handling-in-complex-b2b-sales-ed-marsh-industrial-growth-institute-podcast.pdf] Chapters 00:00 🧱 Perception Is Reality — Or Is It? 01:58 🔄 Why Smart Leaders Can't Pull the Trigger on Change 03:25 🗳️ The Political Polarization Analog 04:25 📚 Defining Absolute Truth, Epistemological Truth & Bias 06:35 🏭 11 Epistemological Truths Industrial Leaders Hold 08:59 🧠 Why You Can't Hold Two Contradictory Truths 11:26 ⚔️ The Sales Challenge: Competing Against Buyers' Truths 12:25 🛠️ Five Strategies to Navigate Epistemological Truths 15:41 💡 From Tactics to Transformation 16:48 🎯 Stop Convincing — Start Guiding

Busting Myths and Dropping Truths About B2B Industrial Sales with Derek Baer

B2B sales in 2025 is confusing. On the one hand, it's just the same as it's been for years. We need to connect with buyers, build trust, and guide them through decisions. On the other hand, it's a completely different beast. That's why Derek Baer is in the studio this week, for a free-wheeling, no-holes-barred discussion and debate on sales topics. It's time to get comfortable being uncomfortable! We talk: * Whether to track "quotes" as a metric * Whether anyone can be trained to sell successfully * Accelerators (kickers) in sales compensation * Whether we should hire for technical/industry knowledge, and more. And the conversation is blunt. "Tell them to f$%k!ng apply" Derek says at one point! Summary Derek Baer brings a new format to the studio this week, debating and discussing B2B sales topics. He and Ed disagree about various aspects of sales, and agree about others. Topics include: * the importance of tracking quotes * the compatibility of salespeople with complex B2B sales * qualities that make a great sales rep * role of sales decks - significance of accelerators in compensation plans * how to manage underperformers and disrupters within sales teams. The conversation emphasizes the need for continuous improvement and investment in sales skills, drawing parallels between sales and other professional pursuits. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Sales Metrics and Tracking Quotes 09:04 The Compatibility of Salespeople in Complex B2B Sales 15:56 Defining Traits of a Great Sales Rep 23:24 The Role of Pitch Decks in Sales 27:29 Understanding Sales Accelerators and Compensation Plans 29:53 Explaining Sales Compensation to the Team 32:42 Managing Underperformers in Sales Teams 35:45 The Impact of Team Dynamics on Performance 41:19 Investing in Sales Skills for Long-Term Success   Resources Check out Derek's Sales Training [https://www.kurlanassociates.com/senior-consultants/] website.  LinkedIn: Derek Baer [https://www.linkedin.com/in/derek-baer-68a234b9/] and Ed Marsh [https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwardbmarsh/] Twitter: Ed Marsh [https://x.com/edbmarsh] Instagram: Derek Baer [https://www.instagram.com/constructingsuccess.fm/] and Ed Marsh [https://www.instagram.com/edbmarsh/] YouTube: @EdMarsh [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFA0TrzwVPYe3WrYH_459Og] Show Transcript  [https://edmarshconsulting.com/hubfs/Industrial%20Growth%20Institute%20Podcast/Straight%20talk%20on%20B2B%20sales%20with%20Derek%20Baer.pdf]   Insanity is Doing the Same Things and Expecting Different Results   By Einstein's definition, most industrial sales teams are insane. Buyers, their behavior, and AI have changed so much, and yet most teams are operating much the way they have for years.   Derek's straight talk deliveres an important message - so does Ed's recent paper on changes in industrial sales and marketing.   Read more from Ed's recent paper on these critical changes [https://edmarshconsulting.com/hubfs/Offer_documents/A%20Deep%20Dive%20into%20Cycles%20and%20Secular%20Changes%20in%20Industrial%20Sales%20and%20Marketing%20and%20why%202025%20is%20a%20Watershed%20Year.pdf].

Tips on How to Build an Effective Industrial Sales and Marketing Website in an AI World with Joe Jerome

If you haven't asked yourself how to build a B2B website in the new post AI world, you're site is probably underperforming. Not only has technology advanced, but buyer expectations for features, UX, navigation, and utility have changed. More importantly, the goal of your site has changed as buyer behaviors and search have changed. Today a site works mostly at the bottom of the funnel - the decision stage. So your top of the funnel marketing must be accomplished using different tools and approaches. Joe Jerome brings years of design and development experience, and a keen sense of what your industrial marketing website needs to accomplish. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Website Strategy for B2B 05:54 Aligning Website Goals with Business Objectives 12:27 The Impact of AI on Website Design 25:50 Continuous Website Evolution vs. Episodic Projects 32:42 Balancing Aesthetics and Functionality in Design 39:38 SEO and Migration Management 44:54 The Role of Websites in the Sales Process 46:29 Understanding User Behavior on Websites 57:49 The Evolution of Website Forms 01:02:37 Empowering Marketing Teams with Website Control  01:05:51 When to Redo Your Website   Resources Check out Joe's Brand Builder Solutions [https://www.brandbuildersolutions.com/]website.  LinkedIn: Joe Jerome [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jjjerome/] and Ed Marsh [https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwardbmarsh/] Twitter: Ed Marsh [https://x.com/edbmarsh] Instagram: Ed Marsh [https://www.instagram.com/edbmarsh/] YouTube: @JoeJerome [https://www.youtube.com/@joejerome4570] and @EdMarsh [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFA0TrzwVPYe3WrYH_459Og] Show Transcript  [https://edmarshconsulting.com/hubfs/Industrial%20Growth%20Institute%20Podcast/how%20to%20build%20an%20effective%20b2b%20industrial%20marketing%20website%20joe%20jerome.pdf]   The Website is NOT the Only Thing That Has to Change!   AI, Google Search, SEO, buying teams, buying journeys - it's all changing. Quickly. Yes, listen to Joe's tips on how to update your website, but beyond that, there's work to do on the rest of your manufacturing marketing, your industrial sales, and more. That's what I discuss in this guide.   Read more from Ed's recent paper on these critical changes [https://edmarshconsulting.com/hubfs/Offer_documents/A%20Deep%20Dive%20into%20Cycles%20and%20Secular%20Changes%20in%20Industrial%20Sales%20and%20Marketing%20and%20why%202025%20is%20a%20Watershed%20Year.pdf].

Unlocking Machinery Revenue Opportunities for OEMs Who Embrace the Used Machinery Market with Matt Smith

If you're a machinery OEM you probably would like to ignore used machines. They're a hassle. For customers who own them, you have to provide support as components become obsolete and tribal knowledge dwindles. When you compete against yourself, that's particularly frustrating, especially when it seems like buyers are just trying to save a few bucks and don't care about the hard work of R&D and improvement that you've invested in. But buyers may see it differently, and Matt Smith draws on years of deep insight in global used machinery markets to explain why it's an entirely rational (not cheap) decision for some buyers in some situations, and why OEMs may cost themselves years of profitable new machinery and after-market sales by ignoring used machines. Stop ignoring and scoffing at used machines, and consider incorporating them into your overall offering using some of Matt's recommendations. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Challenge of Self-Competition 04:03 Understanding Global Asset Optimization 10:17 The Dynamics of the Used Machinery Market 19:23 Leveraging Lead Time and Flexibility 24:08 The Role of OEMs in the Used Machinery Market 31:48 Navigating Capital Investment Decisions 40:09 The Importance of Risk Management in Equipment Purchases 46:05 Conclusion and Key Takeaways   Resources Check out Matt's website and other recommended used machinery resources: AOTCO Surface Finishing [https://www.aotco.com]   Asset Industry Resources Mentioned in the Episode: Investment Recovery Association [https://www.invrecovery.org] EquipNet [https://www.equipnet.com] BidSpotter [https://www.bidspotter.com] LabX [https://www.labx.com] Surplus Solutions [https://www.ssllc.com] Surplus Sherpa [https://www.surplussherpa.com]  LinkedIn: Matt Smith [https://www.linkedin.com/in/smithmattheww/] and Ed Marsh [https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwardbmarsh/] Twitter: Ed Marsh [https://x.com/edbmarsh] Instagram: Ed Marsh [https://www.instagram.com/edbmarsh/] YouTube: @EdMarsh [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFA0TrzwVPYe3WrYH_459Og] Show Transcript  [https://edmarshconsulting.com/hubfs/Industrial%20Growth%20Institute%20Podcast/matt%20smith%20sales%20competition%20and%20understanding%20the%20used%20machinery%20transcript.pdf] Rethinking Our Market Attitudes and Assumptions   Recognizing the potential of used machines as a business benefit rather than a threat is just one example of how we should adjust our market assumptions.   Buyer habits and expectations are changing, just as AI is shifting how buyers search and consider complex decisions.   Read more from Ed's recent paper on these critical changes [https://edmarshconsulting.com/hubfs/Offer_documents/A%20Deep%20Dive%20into%20Cycles%20and%20Secular%20Changes%20in%20Industrial%20Sales%20and%20Marketing%20and%20why%202025%20is%20a%20Watershed%20Year.pdf].

Public Relations and Industrial Marketing in a Post SEO Content Apocalypse with Greg Matusky

If you're not embracing PR as a key pillar of your industrial marketing strategy, you're probably not going to survive the collapse of traditional SEO driven content marketing! AI is disrupting everything about how buyers think, research, learn, evaluate and buy. It's overwhelming and we can only guess about where we'll be in five years. In the meantime, we have to position ourselves to thrive amidst the trends and changes we see. That means that we must become known and trusted - and SEO experts like Rand Fishkin and Marcus Sheridan suggest that the playbook of Public Relations is an important element of that. But you have to do it right..... So this week, Greg Matusky, founder of one of the 40 largest PR firms in America, joins me to talk about AI, marketing, disruption, and the reshaped role of PR as an element of manufacturing marketing. If you're ready to go from worrying about traffic to making an industrial marketing impact, hit play and learn from Greg. Chapters 02:12 Understanding the Role of PR 06:04 The Evolving Landscape of PR and Manufacturing Marketing 23:31 Building Relationships Through Video 30:36 Navigating PR Strategies 33:15 The Future of SEO, PR, and Industrial Manufacturing Revenue Growth 54:09 The Future of AI and PR 01:07:08 Managing Long-Term PR Trends 01:10:20 The Board's Role in PR 01:13:34 The Critical Role of PR in Industrial Marketing   Resources Check out Greg's website and podcast: Gregory FCA [https://gregoryfca.com/] and The Disruption is Now [https://gregoryfca.com/the-disruption-is-now/] LinkedIn: Greg Matusky [https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregmatusky/] and Ed Marsh [https://www.linkedin.com/in/edwardbmarsh/] Twitter: Greg Matusky [https://x.com/GMatusky] and Ed Marsh [https://x.com/edbmarsh] Instagram: Ed Marsh [https://www.instagram.com/edbmarsh/] YouTube: @GregoryFCA [https://www.youtube.com/@GregoryFCA] and @EdMarsh [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFA0TrzwVPYe3WrYH_459Og] Show Transcript  [https://edmarshconsulting.com/hubfs/Industrial%20Growth%20Institute%20Podcast/Greg%20Matusky%20on%20Public%20Relations%20as%20Part%20of%20Industrial%20Marketing.pdf] You're Marketing and Selling to YESTERDAY'S Buyers!   Buyers' behaviors are shifting quickly. Industrial sales and manufacturing marketing teams must adapt radically and quickly. Traditional approaches are failing. We need to change, but first we need to understand how buyers are changing, how their behaviors are evolving, and what that means to us.   Read more from Ed's recent paper on these critical changes [https://edmarshconsulting.com/hubfs/Offer_documents/A%20Deep%20Dive%20into%20Cycles%20and%20Secular%20Changes%20in%20Industrial%20Sales%20and%20Marketing%20and%20why%202025%20is%20a%20Watershed%20Year.pdf].