It Shouldn't Be This Hard

Doing the Right Thing Shouldn’t Be This Hard| Jeffrey Hollender (Part 1)

What happens when the company you built to change the world starts drifting away from the very values it was founded on? In Part 1 of this conversation, co-hosts Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck are joined by Jeffrey Hollender — co-founder of Seventh Generation, professor at New York University Stern School of Business, social entrepreneur, and author of Built for a Better World — to unpack the uncomfortable realities behind building a purpose-driven business inside systems that are designed to reward the opposite. Jeffrey reflects candidly on the rise of Seventh Generation, the mistakes he made while scaling the business, and the painful realization that purpose alone isn’t enough to protect a mission. But this episode goes beyond one company’s story. It explores the deeper structural tension sitting at the heart of responsible business today: Why do so many businesses want to do the right thing… yet still struggle to do the right things? From investor misalignment and growth addiction to systems thinking, leadership consciousness, and the growing fear around speaking publicly about sustainability, this conversation unpacks why purpose-driven business can feel so difficult — even for the pioneers who helped define it. Key Takeaways: - What Jeffrey Hollender learned after being fired from Seventh Generation - Why mission-driven businesses often break when values collide with growth pressure - How investor misalignment can slowly erode a company’s purpose Why “doing the right thing” doesn’t always translate into “doing the right things” - The role systems thinking plays in sustainability leadership -Why businesses need cultures built around consciousness, not just compliance - How political and cultural pressure is fueling sustainability silence and green-hushing - Why community is essential for sustaining purpose-driven leadership Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction: building purpose-driven brands inside broken systems 01:00 – Jeffrey Hollender’s journey as a lifelong social entrepreneur 02:32 – The painful reality of getting fired from the company you built 05:10 – Being “ahead” without bringing people along 07:37– Why hiring and cultural alignment matter more than strategy 10:05 – Why business systems often reward unethical behavior 12:45 – Sustainability as an endless hurdle race 14:28 – Why business isn't stepping up  16:40 – The gap between doing the right thing vs. the right things 17:14 – Why not all sustainability actions are created equal About the Show: It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers navigating the messy intersection of purpose and performance — exploring why doing the right thing in business can feel far harder than it should.  Additional Resources: 🤖 Meet Gaia, Grounded’s sustainability AI: https://grounded.world/gaia 🌍 Get Grounded:  https://grounded.world/ #Sustainability #Business #ClimateLeadership #ESG #SocialEntrepreneurship #JeffreyHollender #SeventhGeneration #ItShouldntBeThisHard

Giving Just 1% Shouldn't Be This Hard | Kate Williams

Every year on Earth Day, businesses around the world make commitments, launch campaigns, and announce new sustainability goals. What happens when the Earth Month celebrations pass? Because the real test of sustainability isn’t what gets said on April 22nd—it’s what actually gets done on April 23rd, and every day after that. In this special Earth Day episode of It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, co-hosts Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck sit down with Kate Williams, CEO of 1% for the Planet, to unpack one of the most quietly powerful models in climate action today: what happens when businesses commit to just 1% - consistently, transparently, and in community. Because simple actions. Done repeatedly. In community. isn’t just the 1% For The Planet philosophy, it’s a theory of change that has already driven over $800M in environmental giving. But this conversation goes deeper than giving. It’s about the structural barrier holding sustainability back: the intention–action gap. Why do so many businesses care but still hesitate to act? Kate breaks down the tension at the heart of the system: - The pressure to be perfect vs. the need to start - The fear of criticism vs. the urgency of transparency - Greenwashing on one side, green-hushing on the other and a growing silence in between And in that silence, progress stalls. This episode explores why progress (not perfection) is the only model that scales, and why aggregated small actions are often more powerful than isolated big ones. Because the economy impacts the planet—full stop. The question is whether businesses are willing to act on that consistently enough for it to matter. This is not about Earth Day as a moment. It’s about Earth Day as a practice. Key Takeaways: - Why the intention–action gap is now one of the biggest blockers in sustainability execution - How the 1% model turns incremental commitments into over $800M in verified environmental impact - Why “progress over perfection” is a strategic advantage, not just a mindset - How greenwashing fear and green-hushing are slowing down real climate action - What it takes to build movements that scale beyond awareness into action - Why consistency—not intensity—is what actually drives systemic change Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction: The intention–action gap in sustainability 01:10 – Why businesses are stuck between intention and execution 03:40 – Kate Williams on the 1% model and $800M in impact 04:10 – The theory of change: simple actions, done repeatedly, in community 04:45 – Greenwashing vs green-hushing: the new sustainability paralysis 05:00 – Why progress over perfection is the only scalable path 06:15 – Building movements through transparency and participation 07:00 – Closing reflection: what actually drives change at scale About the Show: It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like—real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can—and must—coexist. Additional Resources: 🤖 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://grounded.world/gaia/ 🌍 Get Grounded: https://grounded.world/ #EarthDay #SustainabilityLeadership #PurposeDrivenBusiness #ClimateAction #ESG #ItShouldntBeThisHard #1PercentForThePlanet #EarthDayEveryDay

It Shouldn't Be This Hard | Earth Day Special ft. Kathleen Rogers, President of EarthDay.org

Every April 22nd, a billion people across 193 countries do something for the planet. Companies make bold commitments. Partnerships get announced. And then April 23rd arrives. For businesses building sustainability into how they actually operate (not just how they communicate) that day after is the real test. Because the ROI of Earth Day isn't in the moment. It's in the partnerships that outlast the press release, the operational changes that compound year over year, and the culture that doesn't need a calendar reminder to care. In this special Earth Day episode of It Shouldn't Be This Hard, co-hosts Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck sit down with Kathleen Rogers, President of EarthDay.org — one of the most recognized environmental platforms on the planet — to ask the question she returns to every single year: What do we do the day after Earth Day? From the paradox of growing awareness alongside growing powerlessness, to the equity arguments hiding inside the word "environment," to what it actually takes to keep a billion-person movement going — this is a conversation about turning caring into action. Not just on April 22nd. Every day. Key Takeaways: * Why awareness and powerlessness are growing at the same time and what that means for anyone trying to drive change * How redefining "environment" as what surrounds you reframes sustainability as an equity issue, not just an ecological one * Why the antidote to greenwashing fear isn't a better communications strategy  * How incremental progress beats absolutism when building movements that last * Why the intention–action gap is as much a strategic problem as a communications one * What "the day after Earth Day" reveals about the difference between moments and movements Timestamps: * 00:00 – Introduction: What do we do the day after Earth Day? * 01:08 – The paradox of awareness: more knowledge, more powerlessness * 03:50 – What does the ‘environment’ actually mean? And how a simple definition can change everything * 05:17 – Climate equity: who bears the real burden of environmental harm * 05:50 – Why companies are afraid to talk about climate change * 06:30 – Urban tree planting, community tools, and building the tent for the ‘do-gooders’ of the world  * 07:26 –The billion-person challenge: keeping momentum after April 22nd * 08:15 – Closing wisdom: nature as miracle, protector, and source of hope About the Show It Shouldn't Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like: real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can — and must — coexist. Hosted by Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck, the show explores how sustainability can drive business performance, especially under real commercial pressure. Season 2 continues those conversations at the intersection of purpose and performance — because the work matters every day, not just one day a year. Additional Resources: 🤖 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://grounded.world/gaia/ [https://grounded.world/gaia/] 🌍 Get Grounded: https://grounded.world/ [https://grounded.world/] #EarthDay #Sustainability #ESG #ClimateAction #ItShouldntBeThisHard #EarthDayEveryDay

It Shouldn’t Be This Hard | Season 1 Reflection with Starbucks, Plastic Bank, EarthDay.org, PMI & More

After a full season of conversations with leaders from Starbucks, Plastic Bank, Earth Day Organization, Philip Morris International, BIGGBY Coffee, Divert, and The Washington Post one theme kept surfacing: If so many people care about sustainability… why is doing the right thing in business still so hard? In this special Season 1 reflection episode of It Shouldn’t Be This Hard [https://www.youtube.com/@itshouldntbethishard], co-hosts Phil White and Heidi Schoeneck step back from the individual interviews to connect the patterns behind ESG, systems change, sustainable supply chains, and purpose-driven leadership. This is a compilation episode revisiting the most powerful insights from across Season 1 and asking what they reveal about the intention–action gap inside modern business. From corporate accountability to empathetic capitalism, this conversation explores why progress stalls and what actually makes sustainable transformation possible under real commercial pressure. Key Takeaways: * Why sustainability struggles are rarely about intention and almost always about systems design * How shareholder pressure, risk aversion, and legacy operating models create barriers to ESG progress * Why extractive business models create long-term instability in global supply chains * How behavior change scales when sustainability is operationalized * Why shame and cancel culture can slow corporate transformation and curiosity unlocks collaboration * How small, visible actions rebuild agency and close the intention–action gap Featured Voices from Season 1: * David Katz (Founder & CEO of Plastic Bank) on corporate adaptation and risk * Jenny Morgan (Author of ‘Cancel Culture in Climate’) on cancel culture and “pretty good” sustainability. * Karimah Hudda (Founder of illumine.earth) on conformity inside large institutions. * Bob & Michelle Fish (Co-Founders of One BIGG Island in Space) on direct trade and empathetic capitalism. * Amelia Landers (Former VP of Innovation, Starbucks) on designing convenience into sustainable behavior. * Jennifer Motles (Chief Sustainability Officer of Philip Morris International) on driving change inside controversial industries. * Kathy Baird (Former Chief Communications Officer of The Washington Post) on apathy and civic disengagement. * Hilary (Former CMO of Divert) on food waste and operational sustainability. Timestamps: * 00:00 – Introduction: Why “doing the right thing” still feels hard * 00:40 – Season 1 patterns and the intention–action gap * 01:15 – Plastic Bank: Risk, shareholders, and adaptation * 03:25 – Cancel Culture in Climate: Systems built to punish risk * 05:10 – Systems change and institutional conformity * 06:40 – BIGGBY Coffee: Extractive vs empathetic capitalism * 11:50 – Starbucks: Designing sustainable behavior * 14:25 – Come into Conversations with Curiosity * 15:00 – PMI: Courage inside controversial industries * 16:20 – Overwhelm, apathy, and disengagement * 17:45 – Divert: Small actions that sustain momentum against climate change * 19:05 – Closing reflections: It shouldn’t be this hard Additional Resources: 🤖 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://grounded.world/gaia/ [https://shorturl.at/fw9tF] 🌍 Get Grounded: https://grounded.world [https://grounded.world]  - - - It Shouldn’t Be This Hard [https://grounded.world/resources/#Podcast] is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like: real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can (and must) coexist. Hosted by Phil and Heidi, the show explores how sustainability can drive business performance especially under real commercial pressure. Season 1 brought together global brands, social enterprises, and systems thinkers to challenge extractive models and rethink the future of responsible business.

Coffee and Convenience Shouldn’t Be This Hard | Amelia Landers

People don’t want to “be sustainable”... and Starbucks learned that the hard way. In this episode of It Shouldn’t Be This Hard, we learn from Amelia Landers, VP of Innovation at Starbucks, for a rare inside look at how one of the world’s most iconic brands is trying to close the intention–action gap for convenient -yet conscious- coffee.  For Starbucks, convenience is everything. Millions of people move through stores every day with deeply ingrained habits, emotional attachments, and morning rituals that are hard to change. Yet these same rituals are where some of the biggest opportunities for sustainable behavior change actually live. Amelia Landers unpacks what she’s learned designing sustainability inside a global retail ecosystem where speed, consistency, and emotional comfort often outrank environmental intent. From reusable cup systems to packaging innovation, she shares how Starbucks is navigating circularity, consumer psychology, and systems change in real time. This conversation is honest, practical, human — and required listening for anyone trying to make corporate sustainability work at scale. Key Takeaways: * Why “being sustainable” doesn’t motivate customers — but “making their world better” does: Sustainability is a polarizing identity; personal impact is a universal motivator. * How Starbucks is tackling the convenience vs. sustainability paradox: Behavior change happens when sustainable choices are just as easy, seamless, and convenient as the familiar ones. * Reusable cups as behavior design — not just waste reduction: A small but passionate group of customers proved that ritual, identity, and emotional connection drive adoption. * Why circularity requires collaboration, not competition: Infrastructure, regulation, and recycling systems can’t be solved by one brand alone — “there is no IP in sustainability.” * Progress over perfection in corporate sustainability: Sustainable innovation demands humility, experimentation, and the courage to move without all the answers. * How Starbucks uses data, customer insights, and waste tracking to measure real impact: Metrics matter — especially when they reinforce behavior change and customer engagement. Timestamps: 00:00 – Introduction 02:00 – Amelia’s path from brand building at P&G to sustainable innovation at Starbucks 06:00 – Entering sustainability naively and discovering the complexity of systems change 08:04 – The convenience paradox: why “easy” always wins (and what Starbucks is doing about it) 10:30 – Designing reusable cup programs and customer-driven packaging innovation 14:07 – The hard parts: regulation, infrastructure, and the limits of what one company can control 16:01 – EPR legislation and the messy reality of circularity 17:49 – Progress, not perfection: leadership lessons from Starbucks’ sustainability evolution 19:46 – Influence without authority: navigating internal tensions 25:37 – Why tracking matters: measuring waste, behavior change, and customer engagement 28:38 – How different customer groups perceive Starbucks’ sustainability work 29:51 – Amelia’s closing wisdom: “Action is the antidote to despair.” Additional Resources: 🤖 Meet Gaia, our sustainability AI: https://shorturl.at/zHp81 [https://shorturl.at/zHp81] 🌍 Get Grounded: https://shorturl.at/SXFdo [https://shorturl.at/SXFdo]  _ It Shouldn’t Be This Hard is the podcast for leaders, founders, and change-makers reimagining what good business looks like — real conversations, radical ideas, and the belief that purpose and profit can (and must) coexist.