patheological: The Podcast for the Pastor Theologian

Marty Duren and The Disparate Ones

I scraped off the cobwebs, blew out the dust, and set up the mic to converse with my friend Marty Duren. We have been friends and have shared our writing for almost twenty years. Sometimes, the projects were collaborative. We often wanted another set of eyes on something we were putting down on paper. Today, we discuss a collection of essays Marty has put in book form. Inspired by a piece of art by Banksy and the discovery of an appropriate word in a Thesaurus, Marty draws out a more profound sense of the Christian adage, “in the world but not of the world.” Maybe you grew up in the era where the exhortation of Christian piety came wrapped in the phrase we are to be in the world but not of the world. If so, you have likely also grown to understand that the expression entails something more important, a reality that cuts both directions. What does it mean to be in? What does it mean to be not of? Indeed, it is more than an adult’s charge to avoid adolescent temptations. Yet, no one talked about what this might mean for the human pursuit of power. Take, for instance, Marty’s essay titled Evangelicals in the Room When It Happens. Too many have opted for a form of power in the world masked by a claim to be not of the world. We hope that by the end of the conversation, you want one of these pocketbooks in your back pocket and on your mind as you assess the issues on the ground that may matter differently when the question arises from within the scope of Scripture. Put another way, if we claim that the Bible gives us the Story of God, what do we do within that story to reflect the character of God when we consider issues and ideas in our day? The post Marty Duren and The Disparate Ones [http://www.toddlittleton.net/marty-duren-and-the-disparate-ones] first appeared on patheological: The Podcast for the Pastor-Theologian [http://www.toddlittleton.net]. Related posts: 1. What Are Pastors Searching For? A Conversation with Marty Duren [http://www.toddlittleton.net/what-are-pastors-searching-for-a-conversation-with-marty-duren] 2. A Complicated Pregnancy: A Conversation with Kyle Roberts [http://www.toddlittleton.net/complicated-pregnancy-conversation-kyle-roberts] 3. Disruptor(s) Needed: A Conversation with The Alan Noble [http://www.toddlittleton.net/disruptors-needed-a-conversation-with-the-alan-noble]

The God of Wild Places

My mentor preached at my ordination service. He was the third preacher to preach in the service. When he stood to preach he said, > “I am the preacher who preaches after the preacher who preached after the preacher who has already preached.” Knowing Rick, he made that observation during the service and thought it might be a moment of levity. It was. I am the interviewer who interviewed after the interviewers who have already interviewed. But, I may have read the book before the interviewers who have already interviewed. Last year Jason called and said, “Hey, would you want to make a trip to the Boundary Waters, BWCA, with Tony Jones?” “Sure.”  One of the prerequisites before arriving in Minneapolis was to read the pre-publication manuscript of The God of Wile Places. We would have conversations around the book over evening campfires or as we took turns paddling with Tony, our guide.  We cobbled together a group and last September we undertook a trip for which I thought I was prepared but was not. If you have never portaged a canoe over at least one portage trail of over 1000 feet of rock and mud, uphill then downhill, while carrying a 60lb pack, then you would not have been ready either. I had never portaged anything before. And, I have never written a book and wondered how it would turn out. Friends liken it to birthing a baby though I would expect a mother or two would object. But, like birthing a baby, there is the working and waiting to see how your nurtured child fares as he or she grows. I half apologized to Tony for the late arrival to the podcast marketing team. > “We are in month two.” “Crickets,” he said. The delay of this interview is not strategic. If Tony is counting on my little part of the Interwebs to rocket sales in month two, he will likely be sorely disappointed.  But you, dear reader and listener will not be. Tony gives me about an hour to talk around his book. Yes, around and of course about. What I mean is that I want you to both listen to the interview, buy the book, and purchase the audiobook. I don’t want to give the book away to you in the interview. If there is a teaser, this is it: If you must choose a format, go with the audio. There is nothing like hearing a person’s story in their voice. I don’t know which format produces more for the author, but you will thank me after listening. Why? Like Tony, all of us have been pigeonholed for one decision or another, for one rumor or another, for one doctrinal position or another. Often without a conversation. For example, when D.A. Carson published the book, Becoming Conversant with Emergentbut refused to have a conversation with those he condemned.  Take a listen. For those still unsure, even demotivated by my little intro, let me give you this one: Tony may have headed into the woods but he has not left Jesus behind. The post The God of Wild Places [http://www.toddlittleton.net/the-god-of-wild-places] first appeared on patheological: The Podcast for the Pastor-Theologian [http://www.toddlittleton.net]. Related posts: 1. Ingredients for the Pastor-Theologian: An Interview with Tony Jones [http://www.toddlittleton.net/ingredients-for-the-pastor-theologian-an-interview-with-tony-jones] 2. Evangelicals Need to Be Re-Evangelized!? An Interview with Lance Ford [http://www.toddlittleton.net/evangelicals-need-to-be-re-evangelized-an-interview-with-lance-ford] 3. Fleming Rutledge Had Me Chippy, I Blame Jason Micheli [http://www.toddlittleton.net/fleming-rutledge-had-me-chippy-i-blame-jason-micheli]

When Your Pen Pal Is Your Son

Sharing Your Faith Is Not A Single Format Opportunity Those who know me know I am a talker. The corollary is that I tend to process my thinking out loud. Now you know why posts are sometimes infrequent and my podcast frequency is worse. Can We Talk? is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. Subscribed My penmanship is terrible. Were my maternal grandmother alive, she would be pounding the Like Button. I don’t recall if it was my senior year of high school or my freshman year of college. I had to type a paper for an assignment. Nan, as we called her, offered to type it for me. I dropped it off to her. When I returned to pick it up, she said she would gladly do that again for me but never to leave her a draft with such poor penmanship.  Lesson learned.  I never took her another draft. Period. Who has time to improve their penmanship at that late date? Nan had great penmanship. She never sent a birthday card or anniversary card without including a handwritten note. Hallmark could never capture all that she wanted to say. The handwriting in her journals is a work of art. My first podcast of the new year is not about perfect handwriting. It is about letter writing. Specifically, my new virtual friend Curtis Freeman wrote Pilgrim Letters: Instruction in The Basic Teaching of Christ. Curtis wanted to talk to his son about faith in Jesus Christ. His son was unsure he was ready for that kind of conversation. Curtis asked his son if he could write him some letters. The result? Pilgrim Letters. We all may know someone who prefers to communicate the more serious and particular things of life by handwriting a note. I do. If you do, then you will find my conversation with Curtis helpful. You may even pick up Pilgrim Letters [https://amzn.to/49u8AOR] and Pilgrim Journey: Instructions in the Mystery of the Gospel [https://amzn.to/49okZDU].  Enjoy. The post When Your Pen Pal Is Your Son [http://www.toddlittleton.net/when-your-pen-pal-is-your-son] first appeared on patheological: The Podcast for the Pastor-Theologian [http://www.toddlittleton.net]. Related posts: 1. Dad, Transmission, and Translatability, Part 1 [http://www.toddlittleton.net/dad-transmission-and-translatability-part-1] 2. Whips and Systems or, The Better Question May Be, “Why Them?” [http://www.toddlittleton.net/whips-and-systems-or-the-better-question-may-be-why-them] 3. Voices of Hope [http://www.toddlittleton.net/voices-of-hope]

An Influential Mentor

Marv Levy takes his dry humor around the globe in the comedy series The Reluctant Traveler. Levy’s travels leave him perplexed and curious. His episode-ending reflections include themes he picks up along the way. Often sounding surprised, he finds that folks living in Finland enjoy life outdoors, even if it is cold. Smiles greet him, and he cannot figure out why. After a few episodes, you get the feeling that he may enjoy a habit he never dreamed he would. Maina Mwara describes his recent book as a project that called him. And after our conversation, I wondered if Howard Hendricks could be described as The Reluctant Mentor. Not resistant but reluctant.  Mentoring hit the craze level some years ago in Christian leadership circles. Books on mentoring, how to be a mentor, and successful mentoring became the rage. I recall receiving a free book or two at a conference on the subject. The desire to be a mentor has a dark side. It feeds a nascent narcissism that may be latent in all of us. “You need to listen to me.” Like Hendricks to those who saw him as their mentor, my mentors have not self-identified as such. I have recognized they are my mentors. The relationship developed into a mentoring relationship. Rick did not tell me one day as Darth told Luke, “I am your mentor.” Reluctant does not mean resistant. Influential does not always mean intentional. Relationships predicated on a contractual arrangement seldom reach the depths of mentoring relationships. And lack of intention does not mean accidental. Christian discipleship is organic, not programmatic. “Don’t pluck the weeds lest you pluck the wheat also.” Time and interactions are the soil in which mentoring relationships emerge. Howard Hendricks’s story as an influential mentor rises from within an uncomfortable context, reaching diverse people, and results in an investment that yet survives his short sojourn. Remember, no matter how long we live; it is like a vapor. Pick up a copy and observe what it means to be an influential mentor. You don’t need a program. You only need an interest in people. The post An Influential Mentor [http://www.toddlittleton.net/an-influential-mentor] first appeared on patheological: The Podcast for the Pastor-Theologian [http://www.toddlittleton.net]. Related posts: 1. He Didn’t Know My Name: An Interview with Teer Hardy [http://www.toddlittleton.net/he-didnt-know-my-name-an-interview-with-teer-hardy]

Interrogate the Language

We deconstruct everything so why the bugaboo? Mark Driscoll famously attacked deconstruction, or Deconstruction, with the caricature that the goal is to reduce everything to its nub so it may be dismissed. He used the schtick to strike fear in those who dared question what they had been taught, particularly at Mars Hill.  We all know how that turned out. Just this week, I listened to a sermon where Driscoll was the illustration for the need to deconstruct what preachers say. “God hates sin and the sinner.” It is as if the Serpent returned upon hearing that “God so loved the world” and whispered in the congregation’s ear, “Did Jesus really say he loved the world?” My friend Greg Hortin joins me for another conversation on deconstruction, or Deconstruction. When we listen to policymakers and elected officials, how do we discern what they are saying, or not, with the words they choose? This has become important in Oklahoma, given the rhetoric of our State School Superintendent and his constant use of “woke ideology.” Listeners need to interrogate the language – that is, deconstruction or Deconstruction. https://traffic.libsyn.com/patheological/HortonDeconstruction.mp3 [https://traffic.libsyn.com/patheological/HortonDeconstruction.mp3] The post Interrogate the Language [http://www.toddlittleton.net/interrogate-the-language] first appeared on patheological: The Podcast for the Pastor-Theologian [http://www.toddlittleton.net]. Related posts: 1. Jesus Spit In Your Soup: An Interview with Tripp Fuller [http://www.toddlittleton.net/jesus-spit-in-your-soup-an-interview-with-tripp-fuller] 2. The Rapture Betrays the Incarnation: An Interview with Jeffrey C. Pugh [http://www.toddlittleton.net/the-rapture-betrays-the-incarnation-an-interview-with-jeffrey-c-pugh] 3. Mr. Miyagi, Joan of Arc and God: An Interview with Eric E. Hall [http://www.toddlittleton.net/mr-miyagi-joan-of-arc-and-god-an-interview-with-eric-e-hall]