Talk That Pod

010 - James Cridland - Podnews

James Cridland of Podnews [https://podnews.net/] --- SUMMARY James Cridland, founder of Podnews — the podcast industry's go-to daily newsletter and podcast with over 33,000 subscribers — joins Sebastian for a wide-ranging conversation about nearly a decade of covering the podcasting world. James pulls back the curtain on how he's built a sustainable, editorially independent media business, why he deliberately keeps Podnews at its current size, and the ethical tightrope of reporting on companies that also advertise with you (including one memorable story of a sponsor trying to buy his silence). The conversation moves into the current state of the industry: the rise of YouTube as a podcast platform, the video-versus-audio debate, and a frank takedown of AI-generated podcast factories like Inception Point AI. James and Sebastian also dig into podcasting's role in politics, the right-wing dominance of podcast charts, and why the democratization of audio remains one of the most exciting things happening in media today. --- IN THIS EPISODE [00:00] Introduction Sebastian introduces James Cridland and the Podnews newsletter. [00:31] The Origin Story of Podnews James recounts how Podnews was born from a single question in a bar after a radio conference: "Where do you find your news about podcasting?" With no comprehensive source available, he launched the newsletter within a month and has published it every weekday for nearly nine years without a single day off. [02:00] Building a Global, Differentiated Newsletter James explains his workflow-first philosophy — bullet points, a fixed publish time, and a one-to-two hour production window — and how writing for a global audience (not just US/NPR-focused podcasting) became a key differentiator. [04:13] A Career in Audio: Virgin Radio, the BBC, and Beyond How decades working in radio — including legal training as a presenter — shaped James's editorial instincts. He argues that running and understanding businesses makes for better journalism than a purely academic journalism background. [06:38] Editorial Judgment: What Makes the Cut James's primary editorial filter is simple: does he find it interesting? He notes, with amusement, that the stories he finds most compelling are almost never the ones that get the most clicks. [08:53] Awards, the Podcast Hall of Fame, and the Isolation of Podcasting James reflects on industry recognition and touches on a broader truth: podcasting is a lonely craft, which makes every review, rating, or piece of listener feedback feel disproportionately meaningful. [12:07] Newsletter Growth, Saturation, and Succession With ~34,000 subscribers and flat growth over 18 months, James questions whether chasing scale is even the right goal — and shares his real concern: growing just enough to one day hire and train a successor. [15:51] Editorial Independence and the Tightrope of Sponsor Relationships A deeply honest conversation about how Podnews maintains journalistic integrity with advertisers. James describes a confrontation at an industry event where a company tried to buy positive coverage — and he responded by publishing his most aggressive piece about them directly on top of their newly purchased ad spot. [21:07] YouTube: Dominant Platform or Overhyped? James pushes back on the narrative that YouTube has "won" podcasting, questioning whether usage data reflects actual podcast consumption. He warns that a YouTube-dominated world would hollow out the open podcast ecosystem — hosting companies, ad networks, and independent infrastructure would all become irrelevant. [24:37] The Video Podcast Debate Is video a must-have or a nice-to-have? James argues that the pressure to go on camera is deterring newcomers and, worse, degrading the audio product — citing an example of a popular UK podcast that opened with "as you can see..." while many listeners were, of course, only listening. [29:16] AI-Generated Podcasts and Inception Point AI A pointed critique of companies mass-producing AI podcasts — 261 new shows per day in Inception Point AI's case — that flood directories with unverified, undisclosed AI content, including fake medical advice. James shares a jaw-dropping example of an AI-generated episode that broke into English mid-show to say it was confused by its own prompts. [35:05] Where AI Can Add Legitimate Value in Podcasting James draws a line: AI for show notes, transcripts, and clip selection is genuinely useful. AI replacing human voices and creativity, without disclosure, is not. He revisits the Luddites — misunderstood as anti-technology when they were really pro-quality. [36:43] Podcast Discoverability The platforms are getting better, but there's still room to grow. James champions the open "Podroll" standard — where podcasters recommend other shows — as more valuable than any algorithm, and advocates for real-world advertising over podcast-to-podcast cross-promotion. [40:34] How to Launch a Podcast with No Audience James's strategy: be where your niche audience already is. Don't spam your show — become a valued community member first. And reframe success: "self-sustaining creativity" (covering your car payment, taking your partner to dinner) is a legitimate and worthy goal. [43:57] Podcasting and Political Influence Did podcasts make Trump president? James is skeptical, arguing that people's political priors are rarely shifted by a single podcast appearance. He explores why right-wing content thrives on audio (outrage is easier to package than nuance) and what Australia's ranked-choice voting system reveals about healthier political discourse. [50:16] Podcast Regulation: How Much Is Coming? James argues podcasts are already regulated — libel law, advertising standards, copyright — and that the real tension is between two different definitions of freedom: the American "freedom to do anything" versus the European "freedom from harm." [52:48] How Will Future Media Historians View Podcasting? Podcasting reversed the soundbite era, letting people speak at length and be heard as full human beings. James sees the democratization of media — anyone on the same platform as Joe Rogan — as podcasting's most enduring contribution. [56:04] Three Podcast Recommendations James's picks: Death in Ice Valley (BBC/NRK co-production), The Bugle (long-running satirical news podcast), and This Week in Tech (nearly 20 years of video and audio podcasting done right). [58:42] Where to Find James Podnews newsletter, his personal site, and Mastodon. --- RESOURCES & LINKS James Cridland * Podnews newsletter: podnews.net [https://podnews.net/] * Personal website: james.crid.land [https://james.crid.land/] * Mastodon/Fediverse: @james@bne.social Mentioned Publications & Newsletters * Podcast Business Journal [https://podcastbusinessjournal.com/] — James's weekly newsletter focused on the business of podcasting Platforms & Tools Discussed * Apple Podcasts [https://podcasts.apple.com/] * Spotify [https://spotify.com/] * YouTube [https://youtube.com/] * Pocket Casts [https://pocketcasts.com/] — mentioned for its "Podroll" recommendation feature * Riverside.fm [https://riverside.fm/] — used to record this episode * Buzzsprout [https://buzzsprout.com/] — mentioned as a hosting platform * Captivate [https://captivate.fm/] — mentioned podcast hosting platform * Libsyn [https://libsyn.com/] — mentioned podcast hosting platform Topics & Companies Referenced * Inception Point AI [https://inceptionpoint.ai/] — AI podcast generation company discussed * iHeart / Spreaker [https://spreaker.com/] — mentioned as an ad enabler for AI-generated content * Edison Research Infinite Dial [https://www.edisonresearch.com/infinite-dial/] — cited for YouTube podcast listening data * Air America [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_America_(radio_network)] — mentioned as an example of a failed left-wing radio network Podcasts Recommended by James * Death in Ice Valley [https://pod.link/1357695290] — BBC/NRK true crime co-production * The Bugle [https://pod.link/TheBugle] — long-running satirical news podcast * This Week in Tech [https://pod.link/73329404] (TWiT) — nearly 20 years of tech podcasting in audio and video * Buzz Out Loud (CNET) — James's first podcast; no longer active * The Rest Is Politics [https://pod.link/1611374685] — popular UK politics podcast, mentioned in the video-vs-audio discussion --- TALK THAT POD Want to be on this podcast? Fill out this form. [https://talkthatpod.net/be-on-the-show/] Watch or listen to Talk That Pod on YouTube. [https://www.youtube.com/@talkthatpodshow] --- FIND THAT POD Discover the best podcasts in the world. [https://findthatpod.com/] - A podcast discovery newsletter bringing you 5 great podcasts to discover every week. Subscribe today. [https://findthatpod.com/]

009 - Spencer Ford - History for the Reckoning

Spencer Ford of History for the Reckoning [https://www.historyforthereckoning.com] --- SUMMARY Sebastian sits down with Spencer Ford, creator of History for the Reckoning — a podcast unearthing overlooked and painful chapters of American history through interviews with survivors, historians, scholars, and artists. Spencer traces the show's unlikely origins to a children's book series he co-wrote with his wife called The Little Known Heroes, which led him to the story of Frank Emi and, eventually, a five-year deep dive into the Japanese American incarceration during World War II. Spencer explains the deliberate choice behind every major decision: launching on February 19th (the anniversary of Executive Order 9066), using the term "concentration camps," and opening season one with a personal account from George Takei. At the heart of the conversation is Spencer's belief that the most powerful antidote to historical ignorance isn't a textbook — it's friendship. If listeners come away feeling a genuine connection to the Japanese American community, they'll be far more likely to ensure that "never again" actually means something. The two also dig into the podcast's structure (main interviews plus shorter "addenda" episodes), the surprisingly polarized reception on YouTube vs. TikTok, the role of a publicist and nonprofit grant funding in getting the show off the ground, and what future seasons — including a planned look at chattel slavery in the northern states — might cover. --- IN THIS EPISODE 00:04 — Sebastian introduces Spencer Ford and History for the Reckoning 00:34 — How a children's book series called The Little Known Heroes sparked Spencer's obsession with Japanese American incarceration — and the story of resistor Frank Emi 02:33 — Visiting the incarceration sites: from Topaz, Utah as a student to the Heart Mountain pilgrimage in Wyoming — and why going with someone personally connected changes everything 05:16 — Why Spencer chose the word "reckoning" — understanding plus change, not just remembrance — and what it would mean for America to truly reckon with this history 07:39 — Launching on February 19th, the anniversary of Executive Order 9066, and why almost no Americans know what happened that day 08:55 — Opening season one with George Takei: the thinking behind leading with personal testimony rather than academic analysis 10:40 — The "addenda" episodes — shorter bonus installments that fill historical gaps and add first-person oral histories (including the story of Japanese Latin Americans hauled to U.S. concentration camps) 12:58 — The morally complicated story of the Japanese American Citizens League and community complicity — and the rare but real cases where American neighbors did speak up 16:03 — A dozen seasons of uncomfortable American history: the through-line of majority indifference to minority suffering, and what stories are coming next 17:41 — Growing a brand-new show: beta listeners, hiring a publicist, and partnering with the Japanese American Citizens League (JACL) to secure nonprofit grant funding 20:21 — Marketing difficult history — why human curiosity lowers the barrier, and the striking algorithm divide between YouTube (combative comments) and TikTok (affirming comments) 23:09 — The Substack newsletter as a "stickier" community-building tool and indicator of listener commitment 24:14 — Standing out in a crowded history podcast field — and why retention numbers beat raw download counts as an early signal 26:01 — Can podcasting's intimate, voice-driven format rebuild human empathy across racial and political divides? 28:41 — The urgency of recording first-hand testimony before the last survivors of WWII incarceration are gone — and a shout-out to oral history archives already doing that work 31:18 — Book bans, curriculum battles, and a polarized political climate: does it make the show more necessary, or harder to reach audiences? 32:18 — Why Spencer deliberately uses the term "concentration camps" — and why he wants the discomfort that word provokes 35:36 — The conversation turns: Spencer asks Sebastian about his own connection to Polish history and the Nazi camps — a candid, personal exchange 37:08 — A preview of season two: chattel slavery in the northern states and the shocking persistence of slavery in Maryland right up to the Emancipation Proclamation 38:44 — Spencer's three podcast recommendations 40:25 — Where to find History for the Reckoning online --- RESOURCES & LINKS HISTORY FOR THE RECKONING * Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/historyforthereckoning/] * TikTok [https://www.tiktok.com/@hftr_podcast] * YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuSuO8Alrps&list=PLcN4HGBliO_LS15SZQMNcSrL72Va1_-oO] BOOKS MENTIONED * The Little Known Heroes [https://thelittleknownheroes.com] — children's book series by Spencer Ford & his wife PEOPLE & SCHOLARS MENTIONED * Frank Emi [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_S._Emi] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_S._Emi— Japanese American resistor and central figure in Spencer's research * George Takei [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Takei] — actor and activist; season one opening guest * Susan Kamei [https://www.susanhkamei.com] — scholar; interviewed on the history of Japanese Americans leading up to Pearl Harbor * Emily Inouye Huey [https://emilyhuey.com] — author; discussed family stories of the incarceration period * Chizu Amorion — survivor; incarcerated at Poston, Arizona * Claudia Katayama-Nagi — activist and filmmaker; discussed the Department of Justice camps and Japanese Latin American incarceration * Arielle Nissenblatt [https://www.ariellenissenblatt.com] — publicist a podcast marketing expert credited with much of the show's early growth ORGANIZATIONS MENTIONED * Japanese American Citizens League [https://jacl.org] * Densho [https://densho.org] — oral history archive * National Japanese American Historical Society [https://www.njahs.org] INCARCERATION SITES REFERENCED * Topaz War Relocation Center — Topaz, Utah * Heart Mountain — Cody, Wyoming (hosts an annual pilgrimage) * Poston — Poston, Arizona PODCASTS SPENCER RECOMMENDS * Burn Order [https://pod.link/1854194292] https://pod.link/1854194292— MSNBC production on Japanese American incarceration * Campu [https://pod.link/1531935868] — by Densho (densho.org); life inside the concentration camps * Look toward the Mountain [https://pod.link/1552466399] — focused on Heart Mountain, Wyoming * You're Wrong About [https://pod.link/1380008439] https://pod.link/1380008439— hosted by Sarah Marshall; revisionist history and culture, check out the best episodes of You're Wrong About. [https://findthatpod.com/best-episodes-of-youre-wrong-about/] * Omnibus Project [https://pod.link/1318335827] https://pod.link/1318335827— hosted by John Roderick; wide-ranging deep dives into culture and history --- TALK THAT POD Want to be on this podcast? Fill out this form. [https://talkthatpod.net/be-on-the-show/] Watch or listen to Talk That Pod on YouTube. [https://www.youtube.com/@talkthatpodshow] --- FIND THAT POD Discover the best podcasts in the world. [https://findthatpod.com/] - A podcast discovery newsletter bringing you 5 great podcasts to discover every week. Subscribe today. [https://findthatpod.com/]

008 - Jerry Landry - Presidencies of the United States

Jerry Landry of Presidencies of the United States [https://www.presidenciespodcast.com] SUMMARY In this episode, Sebastian sits down with Jerry Landry, the creator and host of the Presidencies of the United States podcast — a long-running show that has explored American presidential history from George Washington to the present day through more than 300 episodes. Jerry shares the origin story of the podcast, tracing it back to a personal reading project, an April 2016 election that left people hungry for historical context, and a first show dedicated entirely to William Henry Harrison. Over the course of the conversation, Jerry and Sebastian dig into the philosophy behind the show — why the presidency is never just about one person, how cabinet members and first ladies can reshape everything we think we know about a president, and why a figure as vilified as Aaron Burr deserves a more nuanced second look. They also cover the practical realities of building and sustaining a history podcast over nearly a decade: navigating social media, making smart use of AI tools, guesting on other shows, building a fiercely loyal audience, and staying credible in an era of deep public distrust. Jerry closes with a passionate argument for lifelong learning, stepping outside the podcast echo chamber, and three history podcast recommendations for listeners looking to expand their queue. --- IN THIS EPISODE [00:00] — Welcome & introductions. Sebastian introduces Jerry Landry and the Presidencies of the United States podcast. [00:49] — Origin story. How the 2016 election and a personal presidential biography reading project inspired Jerry to launch the show. Why he started with William Henry Harrison, and what drove him to go back to the very beginning with George Washington. [04:06] — Research framework. The core questions Jerry uses to structure each presidential series — how each president approached the office, major events of their tenure, and lasting historical significance — and why the framework needs to stay flexible across very different eras. [07:14] — Beyond the president. Why Jerry dedicates episodes to first ladies, cabinet members ("A Seat at the Table"), and vice presidents, and how the VP series started as an April Fools' joke that took on a life of its own. [10:00] — Hidden historical gems. The case of Benjamin Stoddart — the first Secretary of the Navy under John Adams — as an example of a supporting figure who completely reframes our understanding of a presidency when viewed from his own perspective. [12:50] — Making history feel like a story. Jerry's philosophy as a "bridge" between academic scholarship and general audiences, the role of delivery and voice, and how his partner's advice — "it's not what you say, it's how you say it" — has shaped his approach to writing and recording. [16:04] — How the presidency has evolved. Reflections on nearly a decade of research and how the relationship between the federal government and everyday American life has fundamentally changed from the early Republic to the modern era. [18:40] — AI tools in research and production. How Jerry uses AI as a litmus test for historical accuracy, why he still relies on himself for the actual research, and the specific ways platforms like Riverside have made production tasks like episode summaries and title brainstorming easier. [22:30] — Growing the podcast: lessons from eight years. The first question Jerry tells every aspiring podcaster to ask themselves, why passion and sustainability matter more than growth tactics at the start, and what it felt like the first time a stranger recognized him at a history conference. [25:26] — Social media strategy. Which platforms have worked best for Presidencies, why different platforms attract different types of listeners, and why Jerry cautions new podcasters against trying to do everything at once. [29:25] — Podcast guesting and community. Jerry's 25–30 guest appearances on other shows, why the history podcasting community is unusually collaborative and supportive, and how word-of-mouth remains the single most powerful discovery tool. [31:27] — Casual listeners vs. hardcore fans. The data behind Presidencies' audience makeup, what a recent "top 15 US history podcasts" feature said about Jerry's "fiercely loyal" listeners, and how different series formats serve different listener types. [34:10] — Can podcasting be a career for historians? An honest look at monetization realities, why Jerry still has a day job, and why he believes historians should consider podcasting as part of a broader career that includes speaking engagements, book deals, and nonprofit partnerships. [36:50] — Dream tools. If Jerry could wave a magic wand: faster, smarter audio editing tools that keep things sounding organic. Where AI-assisted editing is already helping — and where it still falls short. [39:05] — Credibility in an era of distrust. How Jerry uses 300+ cited sources per presidential series, the difference between primary and secondary sources, and how he signals uncertainty to listeners rather than projecting false confidence. [43:08] — Rethinking Aaron Burr. Why the standard "villain of the early Republic" narrative falls apart under scrutiny, and Jerry's broader argument for approaching all historical figures as complex, whole human beings rather than statues or demons. [46:56] — Podcasts, echo chambers, and civic discourse. The role podcasting played in the last election cycle, whether the relative lack of algorithmic curation in podcasting is a feature or a bug, and why Jerry thinks cross-genre discovery — and collaboration between podcasters — is essential to breaking out of information bubbles. [56:36] — Three podcast recommendations. Jerry's picks for standout shows in the history podcasting community. [59:38] — Where to find Jerry. All the places to connect with Presidencies of the United States online. --- RESOURCES & LINKS GUEST * Presidencies of the United States Podcast - presidenciespodcast.com [https://presidenciespodcast.com/] * Facebook [https://www.facebook.com/presidencies] * Bluesky [https://bsky.app/profile/presidencies.bsky.social] * Twitter / X [https://x.com/presidencies89] * Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/presidenciespodcast/] * Threads [https://www.threads.com/@presidenciespodcast] PODCASTS MENTIONED / RECOMMENDED BY JERRY * Civics & Coffee [https://pod.link/1527172324] — hosted by Alicia; American history in the time it takes to drink a cup of coffee * The Turning Tides Podcast [https://pod.link/1653316649] — hosted by Joe; deep dives into special historical topics (Jerry has appeared as a guest) * Kingdom: Swedish Rulers [https://pod.link/1783392742] — hosted by Chris; deep-dive Scandinavian history, including the new Kingdom series on Swedish monarchs TOOLS & PLATFORMS MENTIONED * Riverside [https://riverside.com] — recording and remote interview platform; used by Jerry for recording and AI-assisted clip generation and episode summaries HISTORICAL FIGURES & TOPICS REFERENCED * William Henry Harrison [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Henry_Harrison] (9th President — the shortest presidential term in U.S. history) * Benjamin Stoddart [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Stoddert] — first Secretary of the Navy under John Adams * Aaron Burr [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Burr] — Vice President and historical "villain" whose story Jerry argues is far more complicated than the standard narrative suggests * Thomas Jefferson's [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson] presidency and family, including his daughters' roles --- TALK THAT POD Want to be on this podcast? Fill out this form. [https://talkthatpod.net/be-on-the-show/] Watch or listen to Talk That Pod on YouTube. [https://www.youtube.com/@talkthatpodshow] --- FIND THAT POD Discover the best podcasts in the world. [https://findthatpod.com/] - A podcast discovery newsletter bringing you 5 great podcasts to discover every week. Subscribe today. [https://findthatpod.com/]

007 - James Wolner - Dakota Spotlight

James Wolner of Dakota Spotlight [https://dakotaspotlight.com] SUMMARY In this episode, host Sebastian sits down with James Wolner, the creator and host of Dakota Spotlight — an acclaimed true crime podcast with 12 seasons and counting, rooted in stories from North Dakota and the broader Upper Midwest. What began as a bar conversation about a suspicious death in western North Dakota has grown into one of the most respected independent investigative audio journalism projects in the region, earning a place in the Dakota State Archives and spawning an Emmy award-winning documentary. James opens up about the unexpected origins of his show — born largely out of frustration with the erosion of facts and journalistic trust in 2019 — and how he channeled a career in photojournalism and IT into a passion for rigorous, story-driven research. The conversation spans the full arc of James's journey: working with Forum Communications, going independent again, navigating the ethical tightrope of true crime storytelling, and his deeply held belief in the power of the "slow burn" documentary format in an age of short-form content. James also shares what it was like living in Sweden for 22 years and how that cross-cultural perspective has quietly shaped his work. This is a rich, candid conversation about storytelling, journalism, independence, and why the right 100 listeners matter more than a million casual ones. --- IN THIS EPISODE [00:07] — Sebastian introduces Talk That Pod and welcomes James Wolner, creator of Dakota Spotlight, a true crime podcast now covering the wider Upper Midwest region with 12 seasons. [01:03] — James traces the unlikely origin of Dakota Spotlight to a 2019 bar conversation about a suspicious death (Victor Newberry) in western North Dakota and his growing unease about the erosion of facts and journalistic trust in public life. [04:28] — James reflects on his unconventional career arc: studying photojournalism in college, spending years in web and database development, and how Dakota Spotlight became his long-delayed return to investigative journalism. [04:57] — Dakota Spotlight became the first podcast ever preserved by the Dakota State Archives. James shares how the timing of the archives' move toward digital preservation played a role — and what that milestone meant to him. [05:54] — Season 3 of Dakota Spotlight ("The House on Sweet and Seventh") was adapted into an Emmy award-winning documentary alongside filmmaker Derek Fletcher. James breaks down how what started as bonus content evolved into a full film produced in under three months — largely during the pandemic. [09:37] — James previews his upcoming film Call Me Shelley, based on Season 7 — the unsolved disappearance of Shelley Juleson in Bismarck, North Dakota. He discusses working again with Derek Fletcher and hopes to screen it locally in Fargo and Bismarck. [10:19] — Ethical storytelling in true crime: how James decides what detail to include or exclude, and why instinct and empathy play a bigger role than any fixed rulebook. [12:47] — A standout example of sensitive storytelling: Season 9, the Mandan Murders. James describes writing a handwritten letter to the perpetrator's family, ultimately resulting in the mother and two sisters reading an open letter directly on the podcast — a moment he's most proud of. [15:39] — Why James returned to producing Dakota Spotlight independently after several years employed by Forum Communications in Fargo. He reflects on the constraints of institutional decision-making (even for small expenses like a $100 records request) versus the freedom of calling his own shots. [18:07] — True crime podcasts typically chase high-profile national stories. James discusses what he thinks draws listeners from outside the region into hyper-local Midwestern stories — including the cultural pull of the Coen Brothers' Fargo. [20:17] — James makes the case for the slow burn documentary format in an era of infinite scroll. He describes going five days down a research rabbit hole to produce a single line of podcast script — and why that kind of deep focus feels like meditation. [23:22] — How AI fits (and doesn't fit) into James's research process. He finds it useful for searching large documents and transcripts, but wary of leaning on it for story direction or creative decisions. [25:33] — Advice for new podcasters entering a saturated true crime market. James talks about geographic niching, the value of starting with zero audience expectations, and why making something you would want to listen to is still the best north star. [29:54] — The moment Dakota Spotlight had its biggest organic spike in listeners: Season 5 and the story of missing Barbara Cotton from Williston, ND. James pre-produced five episodes and released one per day — by day three, the Williston Police Department was calling him. The season culminated in a public event on the 40th anniversary of her disappearance. [32:01] — Keeping listeners engaged between seasons. James shares his approach: releasing shorter "case snapshot" episodes and interviews with other true crime podcasters, while acknowledging the tension between feeding the audience and protecting bandwidth for the main season. [34:15] — The philosophy behind Spotlight Plus and Patreon ($5/month): ad-free listening, full season binge access on day one, and why James sees the subscription tier as a "cozy place where everyone wins a little bit." [36:31] — What growth actually means to James: not video-first platforms, not millions of followers — but finding the right listeners who appreciate long-form, immersive storytelling and will remember exactly where they were when they heard it. [40:45] — The real-world responsibility that comes with true crime podcasting. James reflects on the tension between putting pressure on law enforcement and protecting families — and shares his admiration for shows like In the Dark that have moved the needle on cold cases through public pressure. [43:26] — James lived in Sweden for 22 years. He shares how that cross-cultural experience gave him perspective on the subtle differences between how American and European audiences consume and emotionally engage with story. [46:19] — Are independent audio journalists closing the coverage gap that shrinking local newsrooms left behind? James thinks they are — but worries about the sustainability of doing that work without reliable income. [48:33] — Listener tips and crowd-sourced investigation: the good, the wild ("The Zodiac killer also did it"), and what it taught James about the overwhelming volume of tips that cold case detectives deal with. [51:16] — James's vision for Dakota Spotlight's long-term contribution. He's less concerned with legacy statements about crime and justice, and more moved by the idea that a handful of families feel heard — and that a few hundred listeners will carry a fond memory of experiencing one of his seasons. [52:57] — James turns the tables and asks Sebastian about his podcast discovery newsletter, Find That Pod. Sebastian shares how he saw an editorial gap in podcast discovery and decided to fill it. [57:33] — James recommends three podcasts: My Only Story Season 1 (Dion Wiggett, South Africa), Valley Heat (for laughs), and Pretend (Harvey Oeur). [59:43] — Where to find Dakota Spotlight and closing thoughts. --- RESOURCES & LINKS Dakota Spotlight * Website: dakotaspotlight.com [https://dakotaspotlight.com/] * Available on all major podcast platforms Support the Show * Spotlight Plus & Patreon: $5/month — ad-free listening and full season binge access on day one Projects Mentioned * The House on Sweet and Seventh [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt21833760/] — Season 3 of Dakota Spotlight; adapted into a regional Emmy award-winning documentary * Call Me Shelley — Upcoming documentary film based on Season 7 (the disappearance of Shelley Juleson, Bismarck, ND); produced with filmmaker Derek Fletcher * Forum Communications [https://www.forumcomm.com] (Fargo) — James's former employer during his staff podcasting years Podcasts Recommended by James * 🎙️ My Only Story [https://pod.link/1485543075] — Season 1 by Dion Wiggett (South Africa) — 4-episode true crime and investigative journalism * 🎙️ Valley Heat [https://pod.link/1530344328] — Recommended for laughs * 🎙️ Pretend [https://pod.link/1245307962] — by Harvey Oeur --- TALK THAT POD Want to be on this podcast? Fill out this form. [https://talkthatpod.net/be-on-the-show/] Watch or listen to Talk That Pod on YouTube. [https://www.youtube.com/@talkthatpodshow] --- FIND THAT POD * Discover the best podcasts in the world. [https://findthatpod.com/] - A podcast discovery newsletter bringing you 5 great podcasts to discover every week. Subscribe today. [https://findthatpod.com/]

006 - Drew Frohmann - Sorry About The Murder

Drew Frohmann of Sorry About the Murder SUMMARY Sebastian sits down with Drew Frohmann, the writer and creator behind Sorry About the Murder, [https://www.sorryaboutthemurder.ca] a scripted audio drama set in the fictional small Canadian town of BeaverMount, Ontario, where a Quebecois Zamboni driver is compelled to solve a grisly murder while still getting the ice ready for the game. The show has two seasons and a third in development. Drew grew up in Wawa, Ontario, and spent 20 years working in advertising, specializing in audio and radio. In this wide-ranging conversation, he unpacks how a quirky childhood, a love of audio craft, and an 80s skateboarding movie all collided to produce one of indie audio fiction's most distinctive shows. He also gets refreshingly candid about the grind of writing, promoting, and sustaining a scripted podcast as an indie creator, and shares a piece of advice that every aspiring podcaster needs to hear. --- IN THIS EPISODE [00:04] Sebastian introduces the show and guest — Drew Frohmann, creator of Sorry About the Murder [00:44] Growing up in Wawa, Ontario — and how a rich cast of small-town characters became the DNA of Beaver Mount [03:19] Why Drew didn't want to just write a Trailer Park Boys-style show, and the search for a strong dramatic premise [04:43] The origin story: how the 1980s film Gleaming the Cube sparked the idea of a Zamboni driver solving a murder [05:34] The importance of podcast cover artwork — the process of creating the show's distinctive retro-illustrated look using AI tools combined with art direction from Michelle Lang [08:40] How audience taste for AI-generated imagery has shifted, and why Drew plans to hire a traditional artist for Season 3 [10:36] Diving into the show's premise — why a Quebecois protagonist in an English Ontario small town creates inherent dramatic tension and comedy [12:29] The "unassuming genius" character archetype — how Columbo influenced the lead character, Frenchie [13:49] How the title Sorry About the Murder was born — the earlier working title, Two Minutes for Murder, and why the final title perfectly captures the show's mix of politeness and violence [16:31] How Drew's 20 years in advertising audio shaped the sound design, scene transitions, and production ambition of the show [18:18] The writing process — from Google Docs full of Canadian motives and small-town stories, to plotting clues, to the brutal slog of a first draft [22:00] The difference between advertising copywriting (sprinting) and long-form fiction writing (marathon running) [24:41] Promoting a scripted fiction podcast — why discovery is harder than in true crime or interview formats [25:06] Joining the Fable and Folly Network, crafting a killer trailer, and how feed swaps became the most effective growth tool [27:18] Why true crime listeners rarely cross over to audio fiction — and what that means for targeting [30:39] Sustaining listener engagement between seasons — newsletters, Patreon, feed swaps, and behind-the-scenes content [34:08] YouTube as a podcast discovery platform — and how it's changing Drew's plans for Season 3 [35:04] Navigating monetization: Apple Podcast subscriptions, Patreon, and the challenge of balancing free audience growth with paid subscriber value [39:25] How comedy in podcasting functions as a "court jester" — letting uncomfortable truths land through laughter [40:35] Audio fiction's unique storytelling demands vs. passive listening formats — why it requires more active attention from listeners [42:21] Sorry About the Murder as a refuge from political noise — keeping Beaver Mount as an idealized, rose-coloured Canada [43:56] The "Sorry" maple leaf merch — and whether it still resonates in the current Canadian cultural moment [45:37] Where does deeply crafted audio fiction fit in a media diet dominated by short-form content? Drew's take on audio fiction as "accompaniment" --- RESOURCES & LINKS The Show * Sorry About the Murder [https://www.sorryaboutthemurder.ca] https://www.sorryaboutthemurder.ca— search on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or your favorite podcast app * Instagram: @sorryaboutthemurder [https://www.instagram.com/sorryaboutthemurder] * Facebook: Sorry About the Murder [https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61560356437712] Referenced in the Episode * Gleaming the Cube [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gleaming_the_Cube] (1989) — the 80s skateboarding film that sparked the premise for Sorry About the Murder * Fable and Folly Network [https://fableandfolly.com/] — the audio fiction network Drew credits as a key early growth channel (120–130 shows) * Trailer Park Boys [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trailer_Park_Boys] — referenced as an example of small-town Canadian comedy done well * Stephen Leacock / Stuart McLean's Vinyl Cafe [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vinyl_Cafe] — the "idyllic, homespun" Canadian tone that influenced the show's vibe * Columbo [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbo] — a key character reference for Frenchie's "unassuming genius" detective archetype * Hindenburg Journalist [https://hindenburg.com] (Faden) — the audio editing software Drew uses for scripting and production * Tattoo Sound + Music [https://www.ta2music.com] — the world-class studio Drew works with for sound design Podcasts Recommended by Drew * Harvey in Hell [https://pod.link/1837566056] (by the creator of The Milkman of St. Gads) — a noirish audio drama set during the Satanic Panic of the 80s * Sick Man Talking [https://pod.link/1741077689] https://pod.link/1741077689 / The Fake Cop Chronicles of Newmarket — raw, honest storytelling from a voiceover artist with chronic illness, featuring deeply weird and funny character work * Hanna-pocalypse [https://pod.link/1536198867] — a post-apocalyptic audio fiction following the last zombie, described as deeply character-driven and hangout-worthy --- TALK THAT POD Want to be on this podcast? 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