The Baker Podcast

20: Alisa Arnoff

Join Host Christopher Baker and guest Alisa B. Arnoff for a compelling episode exploring leadership, workplace culture, and accountability in today's fire service. In this conversation, Alisa shares her journey working with the fire service, the International Association of Fire Chiefs, and Women in Fire — including how she first became involved and what inspired her long-standing commitment to supporting firefighters and fire service leaders. The discussion also examines the origins of the IAFC Bullying Prevention Task Force and the connection formed through Fire-Rescue International 2021. Together, Christopher and Alisa unpack some of the most pressing recruitment and retention challenges facing the fire service today and discuss how departments can create healthier, more sustainable workplace cultures. Listeners will gain insight into the role of employment law for the company officer, why leadership responsibilities and accountability matter more than ever, and how workplace expectations continue to evolve across public safety organizations. The episode also takes a deeper look at moral injury and agency betrayal — what these terms mean, how they impact firefighters and leaders alike, and why understanding these issues is critical to the future of the fire service. Biography: Alisa B. Arnoff is a founding member of the Chicago law firm of Scalambrino & Arnoff, LLC.. Alisa concentrates her practice in the areas of employment and labor law, representing privately and publicly held companies throughout the country. She also provides preventative counseling in avoiding and handling employee disputes. A big part of her practice is consulting with clients concerning everyday workplace problems, such as recruitment and selection, employee morale, absenteeism, productivity and separation from employment. Other law firms regularly retain Alisa to conduct workplace‐related investigations. Alisa has a special interest in the Fire Service and consults regularly on Fire/EMS personnel matters throughout the country, including DEI issues, reproductive rights and other compliance matters. She is also a member of the International Association of Fire Chiefs Bullying Prevention Task Force and teaches courses offering strategies and tactics for confronting bullies in the Fire Service, as well as other personnel-related courses. She serves as Fractional General Counsel for Women in Fire and The Beltane Guild. She counsels firefighters throughout the country on personnel issues, with a critical focus on trying to ensure that they can seek mental health services where needed. Alisa was elected to the College of Labor & Employment Lawyers in 2010. She was the first woman to be appointed as the Editor in Chief of the Illinois Bar Journal. She speaks regularly on topics of labor and employment law throughout the country and has been repeatedly recognized by Super Lawyers as one of the top labor and employment lawyers, as well as one of the top female lawyers, in Illinois. Show Notes: https://www.thebakerpodcast.com/blog/20-alisa-arnoff [https://www.thebakerpodcast.com/blog/20-alisa-arnoff]

19: Fire Chief John Vance

Join Host Christopher Baker and guest Fire Chief John Vance for a powerful conversation on leadership, training, and growth in the fire service. Chief Vance shares his journey into the fire service, his experience with Blue Card Command, and how structured incident command supports safer, more effective operations on the fireground. The discussion highlights the importance of clear communication, strong decision-making, and consistent training as the foundation of operational success. Throughout the episode, Chief Vance and Christopher Baker explore what it means to lead from every level of the organization, emphasizing daily training, professional accountability, and the role of company officers in setting the standard for their crews. They also reflect on mentorship, developing the next generation of firefighters, and maintaining work-life balance in a demanding career. The conversation closes with meaningful reflections on the legacy of Chief Alan V. Brunacini and the enduring impact of strong, service-driven leadership in the fire service. Biography: John Vance is a respected fire service leader with more than 35 years of experience dedicated to public safety, emergency response, and organizational leadership. Over the course of his distinguished career, he has served as Fire Chief of three departments for a combined total of more than 22 years, leading with a clear and consistent philosophy centered on community and firefighter safety, delivery of effective service, and treating people with kindness and respect. John’s career began as a fire explorer with the Plymouth Fire Department (MN). He later served as an assistant to the Public Information Officer for the City of Thousand Oaks (CA) and spent 15 years as a broadcaster, developing strong communication and public engagement skills. He also served as a paid on-call firefighter in departments in Indiana and Michigan before beginning his full-time fire service career in 1998 with the Notre Dame Fire Department. John holds a bachelor’s degree in Fire Service Management from Southern Illinois University, a Certificate in Executive Leadership from the University of Notre Dame, and is an Accredited Chief Officer through the Center for Public Safety Excellence. Following his retirement as Fire Chief of the Minnetonka Fire Department (MN) in 2024, John has continued to serve the profession as Battalion Chief and Senior Advisor for the Chanhassen Fire Department (MN). He also works full-time with B Shifter and Blue Card, supporting leadership development and fire command training nationwide.   Show Notes: https://www.thebakerpodcast.com/blog/19-fire-chief-john-vance [https://www.thebakerpodcast.com/blog/19-fire-chief-john-vance]

18: Fire Chief Clare Frank

Join Host Christopher Baker as he connects with retired Fire Chief Clare Frank to explore her remarkable journey in the fire service—beginning with how she got her start at just 17 and rising through the ranks to become the first female Chief of Fire Protection. In this episode, Chief Frank shares what firefighter mentorship means to her and how it has shaped her leadership along the way. She also opens up about the inspiration behind her book Burnt: A Memoir of Fighting Fire, offering insight into the challenges of burnout and resilience. The conversation continues with the importance of maintaining work-life balance in such a demanding profession, followed by a discussion of her newer book, Just One More Game: A Pickleball Quest—why she wrote it and what readers can take from it. Chief Frank reflects on the value of having hobbies and creative outlets, and how they can help sustain both personal well-being and professional longevity. Biography: Clare Frank served as the State of California's first female Chief of Fire Protection. She began firefighting at age 17 and worked her way through the ranks, handling fire and rescue emergencies and major disasters in both urban and rural settings, as well as completing peace officer training and serving as part of CAL FIRE's arson and law enforcement program. Along the way, she earned a spot on an elite state command team, a bachelor's in fire administration, a law degree, a master's in creative writing, and several leadership awards. Now, she brings humor and candor to her stories about first responders, lawyers, and life, and is on the faculty for UNR-at-Tahoe's masters program for creative writing. Burnt: A Memoir of Fighting Fire is Clare's highly acclaimed debut and has been featured in the New York Times, New York Post, San Francisco Chronicle, CNN Opinion, Shondaland, FireRescue1, and others. Clare just released her second book, Just One More Game: A Pickleball Quest, about her latest passion. She lives near Lake Tahoe with her husband Bud and always a dog or two. Show Notes: https://www.thebakerpodcast.com/blog/18-fire-chief-clare-frank [https://www.thebakerpodcast.com/blog/18-fire-chief-clare-frank]

17: State Fire and Rescue Chief Kim Zagaris

Join Host Christopher Baker and guest, State Fire and Rescue Chief (Retired) Kim Zagaris, for an in-depth conversation about the fire service—from starting a career on the front lines to leading at the statewide level as California's OES State Fire and Rescue Chief. In this episode, they discuss the importance of mentorship, the growing challenges of recruitment and retention across California and across the nation, and why the fire service remains one of the most meaningful and purpose-driven careers someone can pursue. Biography: Kim Zagaris—often known as "Chief Z"—is a veteran fire service leader and emergency management expert with more than four decades of experience. He currently serves as the Wildfire Policy and Technology Advisor for the Western Fire Chiefs Association, a role created in response to the growing severity and frequency of wildfires across the western United States. Chief Zagaris spent 18 years as the State Fire and Rescue Chief for the California Governor's Office of Emergency Services, where he oversaw statewide fire and rescue operations. Across a 48-year career, he worked with local, state, federal, and international agencies, playing a key role in nearly every major emergency in California during his tenure, as well as several national incidents. He served under six governors, reflecting both continuity and trust in his leadership. A central part of his work involved coordinating large-scale systems and programs. As Executive Coordinator for the Cal OES Fire and Rescue Services Advisory Committee and the FIRESCOPE Board of Directors, he helped guide statewide policy on mutual aid, the Incident Command System, training standards, safety, and resource coordination. He also managed major initiatives, including the California Incident Command Certification System and the California Fire Assistance Agreement. During his tenure, Chief Zagaris significantly expanded California's fire apparatus fleet—from 106 to 300 units—and helped manage a vast mutual aid system involving more than 1,100 fire agencies and roughly 55,000 firefighters operating around 6,000 engines statewide. His contributions have been widely recognized. In 2007, the California Fire Chiefs Association named him Fire Chief of the Year. In 2010, James Lee Witt awarded him the American Hero Award for his work in strengthening national disaster preparedness. That same year, the International Association of Fire Chiefs honored him with the President's Recognition Award, citing his leadership in large-scale incident response. In 2016, he was inducted into the Hall of Fame by the California State Firefighters' Association for exceptional contributions to the fire service. Known for his direct leadership style and deep operational experience, Chief Zagaris is widely regarded as a national authority on incident command and emergency response coordination. Show Notes: https://www.thebakerpodcast.com/blog/17-state-fire-and-rescue-chief-kim-zagaris

16: Jeremy Wade

Join Host Christopher Baker and guest Jeremy Wade, a retired Seattle police officer, for a powerful conversation on faith, family, and the calling of public safety service. Jeremy, the founder and Executive Director of Mission First Alliance, shares his heart for a national movement that brings the hope of Christ to first responders. Mission First Alliance is dedicated to bridging the gap between the Church and the courageous men and women serving on the front lines.  In this episode, we dive into what it truly means to find our identity—not in a uniform or badge—but in Christ. Biography: Jeremy served for the Seattle Police Department for 13 years, but struggled with his identity in Christ vs his identity in the badge early in his career. After a few years on the department he fully surrendered his life to the Lord, which started an amazing journey that the Lord has been blessing along the way. While not free from challenges like the Seattle riots, and many critical incidents, Jeremy could see God's hand in directing his paths. On the Seattle PD, Jeremy was awarded Officer of the Year, and Medal of Valor. He worked in patrol, in the training unit, as a peer support coordinator, and assisted in developing the department's first wellness unit. He co-founded the SPD Beds for Kids Program with Ryan Gallagher, which continues on today. Jeremy also served as the executive director of the Seattle Police Chaplains Association and came alongside many other local and national first responder ministries. In 2021, Jeremy, his wife Ketryna, and four kids felt God calling them to move to Tennessee and step out in faith to do full-time ministry, supporting first responders nationwide. This led to serving as the Training & Development Coordinator for the Fellowship of Christian Peace Officers- USA until God started directing his path and opening doors to start Mission First Alliance. Show Notes: https://www.thebakerpodcast.com/blog/16-jeremy-wade