UNAPOLOGETIC

“In Israel they are either bigots, fanatics, sometimes murderous ones… and they are cowards… and unfortunately there is no brave figure that I can see” - Offer Cassif, Israeli MP Israeli MP Offer Cassif has been staunchly against Israel’s long occupation of Palestine and has been highly critical of Israel’s genocide in Gaza. The coalition he is a part of  consists of only five seats out of 120 in the Israeli Knesset. He joined us for a second time on UNAPOLOGETIC to discuss how Israeli society is largely embracing its leadership’s descent into a “fully fledged fascist dictatorship”. Chapters 00:00 Intro 01:10 The war and Israeli society’s response 07:37  Understanding the thinking of the Israeli government - subjugation plan 16:58 The genocide and the international reaction to it 23:02 How can this war be scaled back and ICC warrants? 28:52 The make-up of the Israeli Knesset 34:02 Going back to Rafah 36:58 Unpacking the forged documents scandal 42:00 Would Gantz or Lapid be any different? 52:58 How a negotiated peace can occur - South Africa 1:03:03 Unpacking resistance inside Israel 1:07:00 Internal repression in Israel 01:11:07 Is Israel sustainable?  01:16:30 Juxtaposing Palestinian dignity with Israel

Professor Roy Casagranda is an expert in history and political science. He has hosted a series of lectures that are available on YouTube explaining the history of the Americas, the slave trade, colonialism, and the Arab world and the Middle East. In this extended interview, Casagranda takes us on a history lesson that includes the Sykes-Picot agreement, CIA-orchestrated coups in Syria and Iran, various wars, doctrines, betrayals and policies that show just how damaging and cynical US meddling in the Middle East has been over the last century.

South Africa’s former minister of international relations, Naledi Pandor, speaks to us about the why South Africa took Israel to court for genocide. We also speak about why the world has still not yet intervened decisively and has allowed Israel to continue its onslaught in Gaza, whether international institutions will break down under a new Trump presidency and in the aftermath of Israel’s impunity, changes in global power away from the North towards a more multipolar reality, and what can be done to stop Israel. Pandor grew up in a political family and as a child she was exiled from South Africa to go to Lesotho, Zambia and the United Kingdom, where her family contributed to South Africa’s freedom struggle. She draws on that experience and from her experience as being part of South Africa’s democratic government for three decades to tell us the challenges that lie ahead for Palestinian liberation and offers advice on how that road can be trodden.

“Fighting racism in silos that was invented by racism doesn’t make any sense.” Rachel Shabi is an author, journalist and commentator, and she has recently published her second book, Off-White: The Truth About Antisemitism. Shabi joined us for a conversation about her book, the fate of Arab-Jewish identity, how Israel’s war on Gaza is polarising global society and how the racist logic that defined so many colonial crimes is still at play today, justifying war crimes in the last few decades. Chapters 00:00 Intro  02:04 How significant is the war in Gaza 06:24 Why you chose to write Off-White and being an Iraqi Jew 12:30 How did 7th October impact Off-White 15:30 The wealth and loss of her Arab-Jewish identity 19:25 Arab-Jewish displacement from origin countries 27:30 Journey with Palestinian liberation 31:10 The Iraq war 36:20 The fakery of whiteness and origins of antisemitism 42:20 Haven't all empires weaponised racism? 47:54 How the US policy in the Middle East fuels antisemitic tropes 53:15 Why does racist bias self-perpetuate and its consequences 01:03:02 How can Jewish societies be safe 01:08:12 What will be the future of Israel-Palestine? 01:10:14 The single takeaway from your book, Off-White

“I think the Arab leaders are going to be the victims of this genocide in Gaza.” Wadah Khanfar is the founder and executive director of the Al-Sharq Forum. He is also the former director general of the Al Jazeera Media Network. We speak to Khanfar about Gaza, the prospect of regional war, what it means to be a Palestinian and an Arab at this moment in time, and how the frustration being felt by Arabs due to “genocide” in Gaza will manifest itself. Khanfar also recalls his time as a journalist in Afghanistan and Iraq and how the challenges he faced there compare with what journalists in Gaza are going through now. And he speaks about what inspired him to write his book, The first Spring, which is about what drove the strategic goals of the Prophet Muhammad.