Addiction & Recovery Conversations with Brett Lovins

SMART Recovery Explained - 12-Step Alternative or Supplement

If you’ve ever wondered whether recovery can feel more practical, more flexible, and more grounded in science, this conversation opens that door. We sit down with SMART Recovery’s executive director, Pete Rubinas, to explore a peer-led model that pairs individual agency with supportive community - without sponsors, required labels, or prescribed beliefs. Pete Rubinas shares his path from participant to facilitator to director, then takes us inside a typical SMART meeting: clear guidelines, honest check-ins, crosstalk that invites dialogue, and tool-driven conversations rooted in CBT and motivational interviewing. We dig into the Four-Point Program and the Family & Friends handbook, why writing things down reduces self-deception, and how participants use practical worksheets to make real changes between meetings. If you’re earlier in the stages of change, you’ll hear how SMART welcomes varied goals—abstinence, moderation, or harm reduction - and respects your right to change your mind as you learn. We also widen the lens beyond alcohol and drugs. Because SMART is behavioral, the same tools apply to challenges like overeating, pornography, or workaholism. That mix helps people see shared patterns and feel less alone, supported by self-compassion and mindfulness instead of shame. Pete explains SMART’s rapid growth, the rise of online and affinity meetings (including daily options for veterans and first responders), and partnerships with treatment programs and peer recovery specialists who champion multiple pathways. Throughout, we return to a simple idea: people do better when you offer real choices, clear tools, and a community where change feels possible. Ready to explore another pathway or add something new? Listen now, then try an online meeting, grab the handbook, and tell us what resonates. If this conversation helped, subscribe, share it with someone who needs hope, and leave a quick review to help others find the show. Other useful links from Brett: * Sober Curious Consulting [https://www.sobercuriousconsulting.com] - Brett's Recovery Friendly Workplace consulting business. * How Recovery Friendly is Your Workplace Quiz [https://quiz.sobercuriousconsulting.com/gen] - 3-min quiz where you learn a lot. * Brett's YouTube channel [https://www.youtube.com/@BrettLovins] * Washington Recovery Alliance [https://www.washingtonrecoveryalliance.org/] - building the capacity of the recovery community to advance substance use recovery and mental health wellness by catalyzing public understanding and shaping public policy in Washington State. * Recovery-Ready Workplace Toolkit [https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/RRW-hub/Toolkit] - providing information, tools, and resources to help employers from all sectors—government, for-profit, non-profit, and not-for-profit—effectively prevent and respond to substance misuse in the workforce from the Department of Labor. * Data on SUD in the US (2024) [https://www.samhsa.gov/data/report/2024-nsduh-companion-infographic-report] -  from SAMHSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration). Link to my favorite PDF for statistics. * Understand Substance Use Disorders and Stigma [https://youtu.be/EBErMamwytw?si=WwpdnSL_6bf6SOxh] (1 hour video) - learn about the brain science behind substance use disorders and how to addres...

From Stigma To Story: Joseph Green On Language, Art, And Healing

What if the right words could loosen shame’s grip and make change feel possible? That’s the question we chase with poet, educator, and “narrative disruptor” Joseph Green as we unpack how labels shape identity, how language can block help or build it, and why redefining recovery around health and contribution saves lives. We dig into a more generous frame: recovery as the ongoing practice of seeking health, adding value, and designing supports that fit real bodies and real lives, including medication-assisted treatment and mental health meds. Joseph shares his own regimen without shame and talks about building a tripod of care - bio support, daily practices, and honest relationships - so anxiety no longer leads. Art runs through the story. Joseph traces how performance anxiety fused with substances in college, how quitting meant stepping off stage, and how purpose brought him back. A friend’s death, a hotel room, and a poem became a literal turning point - choosing craft over the bar and using art to serve people instead of ego. We explore youth work, from coaching debate to leading a nonprofit that powered poetry slams and classroom programs across dozens of schools. He reflects on intergenerational community and how creative expression gives teens language to weather their storms. At home, Joseph and his family practice openness. He talks with his kids about addiction in plain words, teaches breathing and chanting, and centers expression over suppression. The conversation builds to a live spoken word performance - raw, precise, and unforgettable - on telling the hard truths that can keep someone alive. Come for the poetry, stay for the practical tools, and leave with a new way to talk about recovery, stigma, and the everyday rituals that make healing stick. If this moved you, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a review with your favorite line from the poem. Your words help more people find theirs. More info on Joseph Green: LMS Voice [https://lmsvoice.com] - Founded by award-winning storyteller Joseph Green, LMSvoice empowers organizations to transform harmful narratives into stories of connection and equity. Joseph on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/lmsvoice/] Other useful links from Brett: * Sober Curious Consulting [https://www.sobercuriousconsulting.com] - Brett's Recovery Friendly Workplace consulting business. * How Recovery Friendly is Your Workplace Quiz [https://quiz.sobercuriousconsulting.com/gen] - 3-min quiz where you learn a lot. * Brett's YouTube channel [https://www.youtube.com/@BrettLovins] * Washington Recovery Alliance [https://www.washingtonrecoveryalliance.org/] - building the capacity of the recovery community to advance substance use recovery and mental health wellness by catalyzing public understanding and shaping public policy in Washington State. * Recovery-Ready Workplace Toolkit [https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/RRW-hub/Toolkit] - providing information, tools, and resources to help employers from all sectors—government, for-profit, non-profit, and not-for-profit—effectively prevent and respond to substance misuse in the workforce from the Department of Labor. * Data on SUD in the US (2024) [https://www.samhsa.gov/data/report/2024-nsduh-companion-infographic-report] -  from SAMHSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration). Link to my favorite PDF for statistics. * Understand Substance Use Disorders and Stigma [https://youtu.be/EBErMamwytw?si=WwpdnSL_6bf6SOxh] (1 hour video) - learn about the brain science behind substance use disorders and how to addres...

Guitarist Chris Haugen - Three Years Sober and Playing Better Than Ever

Chris Haugen's transformation from a touring guitarist juggling substance issues to a focused recording artist with nearly half a million monthly Spotify listeners stands as powerful testimony to what happens when creative energy finds proper channeling. "Taking a lot of chaotic energy and streaming it down to one solid, focused beam" is how Chris describes his current creative process three years into sobriety. The results speak volumes—his monthly listeners jumped from 3,000 to 480,000, a testament not to diminished creativity but to enhanced focus and artistic direction. The conversation explores Chris's journey through recovery, including his initial resistance to labels and programs. What makes this story particularly compelling is his honesty about the subtle whispers that preceded his decision to get sober—what he calls "guardian angel moments" where circumstances mysteriously intervened just as he was about to make destructive choices. One night at a Zen monastery, his car lights inexplicably failed as he contemplated driving to a liquor store, a small intervention that spoke volumes. Perhaps most encouraging is Chris's experience finding community with other musicians who don't drink—a natural gravitation toward healthier environments that nurture rather than threaten his growth. His poetic description of sobriety as "a blinking neon light that never turns off, a glass of water balanced on my head, a good surf lesson, a clear mind" captures the vigilance, responsibility, self-care, and clarity that come with the journey. Want to experience the musical results of this transformation? Check out Chris Haugen's compositions on Spotify or catch him performing at Imagine Fest on Orcas Island. His journey reminds us that sometimes our greatest creative breakthroughs happen not when we dull our senses, but when we sharpen them through clarity and presence. * Chris Haugen Website [https://chrishaugen.net] * Chris Haugen on Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/artist/2lD7A7VWRgToPFUUKm58kZ?si=19QdV81gQziDX5TQ_dRZ2A] * Chris Haugen on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/@ChrisHaugenChannel] * YouTube Studio (you'll need to be logged in) [https://studio.youtube.com/channel/UC4VX1PYvWSSWWcrwJ-oTztQ/music] * Chris's Facebook post  [https://www.facebook.com/share/19unsWuKyt/] Other useful links from Brett: * Sober Curious Consulting [https://www.sobercuriousconsulting.com] - Brett's Recovery Friendly Workplace consulting business. * How Recovery Friendly is Your Workplace Quiz [https://quiz.sobercuriousconsulting.com/gen] - 3-min quiz where you learn a lot. * Brett's YouTube channel [https://www.youtube.com/@BrettLovins] * Washington Recovery Alliance [https://www.washingtonrecoveryalliance.org/] - building the capacity of the recovery community to advance substance use recovery and mental health wellness by catalyzing public understanding and shaping public policy in Washington State. * Recovery-Ready Workplace Toolkit [https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/RRW-hub/Toolkit] - providing information, tools, and resources to help employers from all sectors—government, for-profit, non-profit, and not-for-profit—effectively prevent and respond to substance misuse in the workforce from the Department of Labor. * Data on SUD in the US (2024) [https://www.samhsa.gov/data/report/2024-nsduh-companion-infographic-report] -  from SAMHSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration). Link to my favorite PDF for statistics. * Understand Substance Use Disorders and Stigma [https://youtu.be/EBErMamwytw?si=WwpdnSL_6bf6SOxh] (1 hour video) - learn about the brain science behind substance use disorders and how to addres...

Comprehensive Healthcare - SUD Division Chief in Yakima - Jon Schlenske

What if everything you thought you knew about addiction treatment was rooted in outdated thinking? After 26 years in the substance use disorder field, Jon Schlenske brings a perspective that challenges conventional wisdom while offering genuine hope for those struggling with addiction. Jon is Division Chief, Substance Use Disorders and Integrated Services at Comprehensive Healthcare in Yakima, WA. This conversation traces Schlenske's journey from grassroots case management to his current role leading Integrated Care at Comprehensive Healthcare. His experience spans treating pregnant women with opioid addiction at Vanderbilt to developing hospital diversion and outreach programs. At the heart of our discussion is a powerful reframing of addiction as a legitimate disease. Schlenske explains how it meets all the clinical criteria of other diseases – it has symptoms, it's progressive, it involves withdrawal, and it can be fatal. Yet society continues to treat those with addiction differently than people with cancer, diabetes, or heart disease. This stigma creates barriers to treatment while adding unnecessary shame. The conversation doesn’t shy away from uncomfortable truths. With only one in eight people maintaining sobriety six months after treatment, Schlenske questions why outdated approaches remain dominant despite poor outcomes. He makes a compelling case for medication-assisted treatment, emphasizing how pharmaceuticals can provide the stability needed for deeper healing. Perhaps most powerful is Schlenske's emphasis on hope and human connection. Instead of focusing solely on complex modalities, he suggests that recovery begins when we treat people with dignity and address the trauma that often precedes addiction. The path forward requires not just better treatment but a shift in how society views and supports those battling substance use disorders. Whether you're struggling, supporting someone, or just trying to understand, this episode offers insights that could change how you think about recovery. Listen now to join the conversation about building more compassionate, effective paths to healing. Comprehensive Healthcare [https://comphc.org/] Jon Schlenske on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonschlenske/] Other useful links from Brett: * Sober Curious Consulting [https://www.sobercuriousconsulting.com] - Brett's Recovery Friendly Workplace consulting business. * How Recovery Friendly is Your Workplace Quiz [https://quiz.sobercuriousconsulting.com/gen] - 3-min quiz where you learn a lot. * Brett's YouTube channel [https://www.youtube.com/@BrettLovins] * Washington Recovery Alliance [https://www.washingtonrecoveryalliance.org/] - building the capacity of the recovery community to advance substance use recovery and mental health wellness by catalyzing public understanding and shaping public policy in Washington State. * Recovery-Ready Workplace Toolkit [https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/RRW-hub/Toolkit] - providing information, tools, and resources to help employers from all sectors—government, for-profit, non-profit, and not-for-profit—effectively prevent and respond to substance misuse in the workforce from the Department of Labor. * Data on SUD in the US (2024) [https://www.samhsa.gov/data/report/2024-nsduh-companion-infographic-report] -  from SAMHSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration). Link to my favorite PDF for statistics. * Understand Substance Use Disorders and Stigma [https://youtu.be/EBErMamwytw?si=WwpdnSL_6bf6SOxh] (1 hour video) - learn about the brain science behind substance use disorders and how to addres...

HR's Role in Supporting Recovery Friendly Workplaces: A Conversation with Michael Erisman

This eye-opening conversation with HR executive Michael Erisman discusses some barriers that can prevent meaningful support for employees in or seeking recovery. Michael shares his powerful personal journey, beginning with a sobering realization on his 25th birthday that changed everything: "If you don't make radical changes, you won't see 30." Since that moment in 1989, his path through recovery has intertwined with a distinguished HR career spanning companies like Microsoft and GE across 160 countries. Together we explore why companies default to the "box-checking exercise" of Employee Assistance Programs rather than creating truly recovery-friendly cultures. Michael challenges the common objections—fears of litigation, concerns about maintaining workplace social events, and uncertainties about appropriate boundaries—while offering practical wisdom for organizations ready to evolve. What makes this conversation particularly valuable is how it bridges personal experience with professional expertise. Michael articulates what he calls "the air, food and water" of effective management: clear goals, feedback loops, and creating environments where people feel valued. These fundamentals create the psychological safety necessary for employees to seek help when struggling with substance use issues. The potential impact extends far beyond those currently in recovery. As Michael puts it, "On the other side of recovery are some of the most amazing employees you can ever possibly get." People who have walked through addiction and recovery often bring extraordinary gratitude, honesty, and perspective to their work—qualities any employer should value. Ready to explore how recovery-friendly practices could transform your workplace? This conversation provides both inspiration and practical next steps for creating environments where recovery is visible, normalized, and celebrated. Other useful links from Brett: * Sober Curious Consulting [https://www.sobercuriousconsulting.com] - Brett's Recovery Friendly Workplace consulting business. * How Recovery Friendly is Your Workplace Quiz [https://quiz.sobercuriousconsulting.com/gen] - 3-min quiz where you learn a lot. * Brett's YouTube channel [https://www.youtube.com/@BrettLovins] * Washington Recovery Alliance [https://www.washingtonrecoveryalliance.org/] - building the capacity of the recovery community to advance substance use recovery and mental health wellness by catalyzing public understanding and shaping public policy in Washington State. * Recovery-Ready Workplace Toolkit [https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/RRW-hub/Toolkit] - providing information, tools, and resources to help employers from all sectors—government, for-profit, non-profit, and not-for-profit—effectively prevent and respond to substance misuse in the workforce from the Department of Labor. * Data on SUD in the US (2024) [https://www.samhsa.gov/data/report/2024-nsduh-companion-infographic-report] -  from SAMHSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration). Link to my favorite PDF for statistics. * Understand Substance Use Disorders and Stigma [https://youtu.be/EBErMamwytw?si=WwpdnSL_6bf6SOxh] (1 hour video) - learn about the brain science behind substance use disorders and how to addres...