The New Music Business with Ari Herstand

This week Ari sits down with Marc Caruso, the CEO and co-founder of Angry Mob Music, an independent music publisher based in LA. Aside from being an advocate for independent artists in the publishing world, Marc is a composer, producer, and Emmy-nominated music editor himself. He is also a board member and former President of the LA chapter of the Association of Independent Music Publishers (AIMP), a member of the Academy of Television Arts & Sciences, a member of The Recording Academy, and a member of The Motion Picture Editors Guild. In this episode, Marc describes the evolving landscape of music publishing, particularly in the context of our streaming economy. He breaks down essential terms, like ‘music publishing’ itself, ‘copyright’, and ‘royalties’, before diving into the deeper complexities of the publishing world. Marc is incredibly transparent about how the money gets made at his publishing company—giving detailed accounts of how much sync licenses pay these days and what royalties look like for microsyncs on platforms like YouTube and TikTok. Rounding out a more global view, Marc and Ari discuss Universal’s deal with Spotify, the MLC’s failed lawsuit against Spotify and what all this means for independent publishers and independent songwriters.  https://www.instagram.com/angrymobmusic/ [https://www.instagram.com/angrymobmusic/] Chapters 00:00 The Shift from Sales to Streaming Economy 04:07 Understanding Music Publishing 12:50 The Role of Angry Mob Music 16:55 Revenue Streams in Music Publishing 21:30 The Importance of Sync Licensing 22:00 Sync Fees and Their Variability 29:44 Sync in Film and Advertising 34:34 Micro Sync and Social Media Platforms 39:41 Navigating Music Licensing for Creators 45:24 The Complexities of Music Rights on Social Media 49:11 The Role of Music Publishers and Advocacy 57:02 Inequities in the Music Industry 01:10:30 Empowering Independent Artists and Publishers Edited and mixed by Ari Davids Music by Brassroots District Produced by the team at Ari’s Take Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com [https://book.aristake.com] ---------------------------------------- Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy [https://acast.com/privacy] for more information.

This week Ari sits down with Liz Pelly, a prominent music journalist and author of the new book Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist. Liz’s journalism has appeared in NPR, The Guardian, and Pitchfork among other prestigious publications. Preceded by an exposé in Harper’s Magazine, Pelly’s latest work, Mood Machine, pulls back the curtain on Spotify’s exploitative practices and uncovers how those practices impact artists and listeners.  In this episode, Liz gives the low down on research she conducted for the book and explains how Spotify has unfairly conspired with major labels since its launch. As she does in Mood Machine, Liz calls out Spotify’s Perfect Fit Content (PFC) program and explains how its use of ghost artists degrades the integrity of their model for all. Ari and Liz discuss the value of music and how that can differ in the eyes of major corporations and individuals. Whether you’re an artist, label, or listener who uses Spotify, this episode will help you understand the impact Spotify’s model has on your relationship to music. https://www.instagram.com/lizpelly [https://www.instagram.com/lizpelly]  Harper’s article: https://harpers.org/archive/2025/01/the-ghosts-in-the-machine-liz-pelly-spotify-musicians/ [https://harpers.org/archive/2025/01/the-ghosts-in-the-machine-liz-pelly-spotify-musicians/] Chapters 00:00 The Inner Workings of Spotify 12:48 Ghost Artists and the PFC Program 37:50 Spotify's Launch and Major Label Relationships 41:26 The Evolution of Streaming Contracts 44:14 Valuing Music: A Cultural Perspective 49:43 The Impact of Streaming on Music Value 56:10 Algorithms and the Personalization of Music 01:01:20 The Role of Music in Society 01:07:23 Future Solutions for Musicians 01:19:38 Defining Success in the New Music Business Edited and mixed by Ari Davids Music by Brassroots District Produced by the team at Ari’s Take Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com [https://book.aristake.com] ---------------------------------------- Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy [https://acast.com/privacy] for more information.

This week Ari sits down with Luis Navarro and Joel Niño Jr. of the duo Twin Tribes. This dark wave band out of Brownsville, TX has been gaining impressive momentum on the gothic scene—and they’re doing it entirely DIY. Twin Tribes releases their music through DistroKid and has over 30 million streams with nearly a million monthly listeners on Spotify alone. They have toured the world and managed their growing success completely independently. In this episode, Twin Tribes tells Ari all about how they’ve built their DIY operation from the ground up. They share about how they’ve partnered with record labels to utilize their physical product offerings (CDs, cassette tapes, vinyls, etc) while still maintaining full independence as artists. Luis and Joel also break down the potent visuals behind the Twin Tribes brand and how they developed their aesthetic. This conversation is an inspiring example of how finding your niche and building a DIY community can help catapult your career.  https://www.instagram.com/twin_tribes/ [https://www.instagram.com/twin_tribes/] Chapters 00:00 The Genesis of Twin Tribes 02:53 Building a DIY Community 06:03 The Role of Aesthetics in Music 08:51 Discovering the Gothic Scene 12:13 The Cassette Era and Initial Releases 15:10 Growing Through Live Performances 17:58 Transitioning to Full-Time Musicians 20:51 Strategic Partnerships and Touring 24:04 The Evolution of Their Sound and Success 28:21 Navigating DIY Music Partnerships 30:42 Building a Digital Strategy for Streaming Success 36:24 Creating Ambitious Music Videos 44:23 Crafting a Cohesive Aesthetic and Vision 50:36 Engaging with Fans and Community 53:04 Looking Ahead: Future Plans for Twin Tribes Edited and mixed by Ari Davids Music by Brassroots District Produced by the team at Ari’s Take Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com [https://book.aristake.com] ---------------------------------------- Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy [https://acast.com/privacy] for more information.

This week Ari sits down with Alex Taggart, an expert on the Chinese music market. Alex spent 10 years in China overseeing local strategy for clients such as Dua Lipa, Diplo, Lauv, John Legend and so many more. He now works independently, managing artists through his own company, Isle of Management. Alex’s main focus is bringing globally-minded talent to local audiences worldwide. This conversation gives a comprehensive introduction to the Chinese music industry. Whether you’re well-versed in this market or know virtually nothing about it, you will learn a ton from this episode. Alex highlights various DSPs used in China (i.e. their versions of Spotify/Apple music) and explains the inner workings of Chinese social platforms. If you’re an artist looking to break into China, Alex offers actionable steps to get your music on their radar. In fact, you might already be big in China and not even realize it! Alex shares important info about how to check your music’s traction in China. If you’re interested in booking shows or touring through the country, this episode is for you, too. Enjoy this breakdown of the multifaceted Chinese music market! https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-taggart-music/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-taggart-music/]  Chapters 00:00 Collaborating for Success in China 01:51 Understanding the Chinese Music Market 07:55 Music Consumption and Streaming Platforms in China 15:59 Checking Your Traction in China 20:38 Revenue Streams for Artists 23:57 Monetization in the Chinese Music Industry 35:41 Navigating Publishing and Rights Management 37:07 Understanding China's Music Publishing Landscape 40:01 Navigating the Challenges of Music Rights in China 44:27 Exploring Touring Opportunities in China 49:50 Strategies for Artists to Break into the Chinese Market 54:12 The Role of Competition Shows in Artist Development 01:01:19 Leveraging Collaborations for Market Entry 01:12:01 Defining Success in the New Music Business Edited and mixed by Ari Davids Music by Brassroots District Produced by the team at Ari’s Take Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com [https://book.aristake.com] ---------------------------------------- Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy [https://acast.com/privacy] for more information.

This week Ari sits down with Tor Hermansen, half of the production/songwriter duo Stargate. Stargate has written and produced major hit songs for artists such as Beyonce, Rihanna, Selena Gomez, Katy Perry, and Coldplay, to name a few. Tor has billions of streams, has written and produced 10 Billboard Hot 100 #1 singles in the US and 11 in the UK. He has won 2 Grammy Awards and received the ASCAP songwriter of the year award twice. Stargate’s writer and producer credits include Beyoncé’s global hit “Irreplaceable,” Beyoncé and Shakira’s “Beautiful Liar,” extensive work with Rihanna including “Rude Boy,” “Don’t Stop The Music,” “Only Girl (In the World),” What’s My Name, “S&M, “Diamonds,” Selena Gomez’ “Come & Get It” and “Same Old Love,” Fifth Harmony’s “Worth It” and Katy Perry’s “Firework.” Most recently, the team produced Coldplay’s album A Head Full of Dreams, co-wrote and produced Julia Michael’s current hit “Issues.” Tor talks about the process of songwriting and producing, working with artists and topliners. He shares great advice on how to write and work in the room with other songwriters, producers, and topliners. Tor also shares valuable insight on demoing, writing, re-writing, scaling up a musical production, and more. Ari and Tor dive deep into the business end of songwriting and producing as well; they discuss the 9-month intensive LAAMP program (Los Angeles Academy for Artists and Music Producers) Tor and his Stargate partner Mikkel Eriksen created for aspiring artists, songwriters, and producers in LA and how to get involved. If you’re interested in how songwriting and producing works at the hit level, this episode is for you! https://www.instagram.com/stargate/ [https://www.instagram.com/stargate/] https://www.laampmusic.com/ [https://www.laampmusic.com/] Chapters 00:00 No Compromising in Music Creation 00:33 Introduction to Tora Hermanson and Stargate 02:51 Songwriting and Production Process Insights 04:41 The Evolution of Music Production 10:19 The Pitch Game: Is It Dead? 13:14 Identifying a Hit: The Unpredictable Nature 16:03 The Role of Social Media in Music Success 18:52 Adapting to New Mediums: TikTok and Streaming 21:27 The Creation of 'Issues' with Julia Michaels 24:41 Evolving Production Techniques 27:51 Collaboration and Song Development 30:33 Creative Freedom in the Final Product 32:11 The Art of Collaboration in Songwriting 37:01 Navigating the Songwriting Process 46:59 The Business of Songwriting and Representation 49:16 Building a Career as a Songwriter 56:45 Creating a Nurturing Environment for Artists 01:04:50 Defining Success in the New Music Business Edited and mixed by Ari Davids Music by Brassroots District Produced by the team at Ari’s Take Order the THIRD EDITION of How to Make It in the New Music Business: https://book.aristake.com [https://book.aristake.com] ---------------------------------------- Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy [https://acast.com/privacy] for more information.