Buy the Numbers

The Real ROI of Automation: CapEx, Capacity & the Cost of Doing Nothing, Ep #46

Recorded live from the DN Solutions open house near Chicago, this special crossover episode blends the worlds of Buy the Numbers and Lights Out into one conversation about manufacturing growth, automation, and the real numbers behind machine tool investments. Surrounded by machines making chips all around us, we dive into what actually drives smart capital expenditures in a modern machine shop. Throughout the episode, we unpack the balancing act between financial discipline and strategic growth. From twin-spindle turning centers to automated five-axis workflows, we discuss how manufacturers should think about throughput, spindle utilization, labor constraints, machine consolidation, and long-term capacity planning. More importantly, we explore how shops can avoid the trap of simply buying equipment because it looks exciting instead of because it solves a real operational need. We also pull back the curtain on how Hill Manufacturing evaluates new opportunities and plans for future growth. Mike walks through a real-world example of assessing a major customer opportunity that could dramatically increase revenue, while simultaneously forcing hard decisions around automation, throughput targets, and production capacity. The result becomes a practical conversation about how manufacturers should approach ROI calculations, CapEx strategy, and investing in capability before they absolutely need it. Along the way, we tackle one of the biggest misconceptions around automation: that it's about replacing people. In reality, we believe automation is about freeing skilled employees from repetitive, low-value tasks so they can focus on setups, process improvement, and higher-level problem solving. Whether it's unattended machining, machine monitoring, or smarter workflows, this episode is ultimately about building manufacturing businesses that run more efficiently, scale more intelligently, and create more freedom for the people inside them. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... * (0:00) A special live crossover episode from the DN Solutions open house blends "Buy the Numbers" and "Lights Out" * (2:15) Mike and Nick discuss the future "roadshow" concept and why tech centers may be the future of manufacturing events * (4:09) Mike explains how he approaches multi-year CapEx planning and evaluating future machine investments * (9:10) Why every machine shop should have a formal capital expenditure strategy * (11:24) Why we love Verdant Commercial Capital for equipment financing * (11:57) How maximizing older equipment and improving workflows can delay unnecessary machine purchases * (16:50) How automation, machine monitoring, and tool optimization work together to increase utilization * (18:30) Why the numbers matter in manufacturing decisions, even when strategic choices go beyond pure ROI * (21:56) The parallels between buying machine tools and acquiring manufacturing businesses * (24:43) The rapid pace of innovation in manufacturing software, automation, and shop-floor technology * (27:43) The true cost of downtime, DIY fixes, and underestimating the value of people's time * (31:10) Why automation is really about freeing skilled employees to do higher-value work * (33:30) Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area from FacturMFG.com/chips * (35:15) Mike walks through evaluating a major new customer opportunity and determining required capacity * (40:24) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) * (41:04) How ROI calculators and throughput modeling help justify major equipment investments * (45:37) Why service support and machine uptime are critical factors in choosing machine tool partners * (47:16) How automation improves profitability without forcing shops to lower pricing * (49:22) Why profitability is essential for taking care of employees, customers, and the broader community Resources & People Mentioned * Why we love Verdant Commercial Capital [http://verdantcc.com/chips] for equipment financing * Hennig ROI Calculator [https://hennigworldwide.com/roi-calculator] * Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) [https://www.claconnect.com/en/] * Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area from FacturMFG.com/chips [http://facturmfg.com/chips] Connect With Buy the Numbers * Follow on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/102691966/admin/dashboard/] * Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/growingvalue/] Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/buy-the-numbers/id1774286946] + Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/3dCmT5iQXMQR6O4hiicEpG?si=a70dbd82628140a0] Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK [https://www.podcastfasttrack.com]

The PEO Playbook: How Small Shops Compete Like Big Employers, Ep #45

If you're like most shop owners, HR, payroll, and benefits are necessary evils—important, but far from the reason you got into manufacturing in the first place. Yet those "back-office" functions can quietly drain your time, introduce risk, and even limit your ability to attract and retain great people. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, Mike sits down with Jon from Thrive PEO to unpack one of the most misunderstood tools available to small and mid-sized manufacturers: the Professional Employer Organization (PEO). What starts as a conversation about payroll quickly expands into a broader discussion about risk management, employee benefits, compliance, and how to build a business that can punch above its weight class. They break down common myths—like "we're too small" or "it's just outsourced payroll"—and reveal how PEOs actually create leverage. From accessing Fortune 500-level benefits to removing administrative burdens and reducing liability, this episode reframes HR from a cost center into a strategic advantage. But beyond the numbers, this conversation is really about focus. What happens when you reclaim hours every week? What could you do if you stopped worrying about compliance, payroll taxes, and benefits administration—and started reinvesting that time into growth, people, and profitability? If you've ever felt stretched thin trying to manage everything yourself, this episode might just introduce the "easy button" your business didn't know it needed. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... * (0:00) How PEOs give small businesses access to large-company benefits and pricing * (2:52) What a PEO is and how it consolidates HR, payroll, and benefits * (6:00) Real-world example of fragmented HR functions vs. a unified PEO solution * (8:07) Myth: "We're too small for a PEO" and why size doesn't matter * (11:33) Leveraging pooled buying power to offer better, more affordable benefits * (14:57) Breaking down the "too expensive" myth with real financial logic * (17:14) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) * (18:11) The three pillars of HR within a PEO: compliance, support, and technology * (19:55) Using PEOs as a resource for handling sensitive employee situations * (22:31) Enhancing employee experience through onboarding and HR tech * (23:39) Real example: outdated employee policies and the risk of non-compliance * (25:39) Constantly evolving employment laws and the challenge of staying compliant * (27:11) Integrating HR systems with quality management and compliance requirements * (29:38) Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area from FacturMFG.com/chips * (30:46) Opportunity cost: what business owners could do with time saved * (34:04) Hidden costs: liability, lawsuits, and compliance risks * (36:20) Expanding into retirement benefits and 401(k) access through PEOs * (39:16) Quality of life improvements for owners and leadership teams * (41:02) Why you need to have a conversation with Verdant Commercial Capital * (41:41) How to evaluate and choose the right PEO provider * (44:34) Payroll tax risks and real-world horror stories for small businesses * (46:56) Cash flow challenges and how PEOs stabilize payroll-related expenses * (49:53) Key criteria: people, processes, and platform when selecting a PEO * (53:21) How to connect with Jon to explore Thrive PEO for your business * (55:16) Final takeaway: using a PEO to "punch above your weight" in talent and growth Resources & People Mentioned * MakingChips Seasons: Small Shop Owners Can Thrive with a PEO, 349 [https://makingchips.com/makingchips-seasons-small-shop-owners-can-thrive-with-a-peo-349/] * Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) [https://www.claconnect.com/en/] * Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area from FacturMFG.com/chips [http://facturmfg.com/chips] * Why you need to have a conversation with Verdant Commercial Capital [http://verdantcc.com/numbers] * NAPEO.org [http://napeo.org] Connect with Jon Scoggins * Thrive PEO [https://www.thrivepeo.com/] * Connect on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-scoggins-b9369a1/] Connect With Buy the Numbers * Follow on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/102691966/admin/dashboard/] * Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/growingvalue/] Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/buy-the-numbers/id1774286946] + Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/3dCmT5iQXMQR6O4hiicEpG?si=a70dbd82628140a0]

Breaking the Ceiling: Systems, Data, and the Truth About Scaling a Machine Shop, Ep #44

Breaking the Ceiling: Systems, Data, and the Truth About Scaling a Machine Shop, Ep #44 Manufacturing will humble you—no matter how good you get. I was talking with someone recently about how this might be the only industry where you can perform at a world-class level and still lose money on scrap. That's just the reality we operate in. So the question becomes: how do you build a business that can actually handle that kind of pressure? In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with Scott Shortess—someone I've known and trusted for years—to talk through what it really takes to break through that next level of growth. We've both seen shops get stuck. Flat revenue, constant firefighting, and that feeling that no matter what you do, you're not gaining ground. I've been there myself. For me, one of the biggest shifts came when I realized I couldn't scale without better systems, processes, and visibility. Scott shares a similar journey—moving from a legacy system that no longer fit the business to something that completely transformed how his shop operates. And I've seen that transformation firsthand. It's not just about better data—it's about changing how your entire organization thinks and works. We also get into the reality of what's happening right now with AI, custom-built systems, and the temptation to "just figure it out yourself." I've seen a lot of people go down that road. And while it can work, the bigger question is: is that really the best use of your time as a business owner? At the end of the day, this episode is about clarity. When you have the right systems in place, you stop guessing. You stop reacting. And you start making decisions with confidence. That's what allows you to grow—and just as importantly, actually enjoy the business you've built. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... * (0:00) Why manufacturing is one of the hardest industries—and learning to accept failure as part of the game * (2:51) Scott's background, our relationship, and why collaboration matters (even among competitors) * (7:19) How ProShop is critical to your ability to operate and scale * (12:25) The chaos of operating without visibility—and how systems create accountability * (16:22) The "4 P's": People, Process, Product, Profit—and why profit can't be ignored * (18:12) Data, KPIs, and what actually matters to customers (quality, delivery, price) * (21:25) Head to the DN Solutions Manufacturing Without Limits event * (22:27) "Opportunity to cash": how to think about the flow of a manufacturing business * (27:28) You're never too small to implement an ERP * (30:02) Check out the Hennig WorkFlow Automated Pallet Delivery System * (30:55) AI, "vibe coding," and the temptation to build your own systems * (40:05) Using data to make better decisions—including when to say "no" * (41:20) Culture transformation: how systems change behavior across the business * (46:25) Why industry best practices beat homegrown systems * (49:44) Manufacturing vs. baseball: embracing imperfection in a high-stakes industry * (50:11) Real-world example of speed, planning, and execution under pressure * (52:49) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) * (53:30) The biggest operational shifts: visibility, capacity, and flow * (57:48) The ultimate benefit: getting your time back as an owner Resources & People Mentioned * ProShop ERP [https://proshoperp.com/] * Head to the DN Solutions Manufacturing Without Limits event [https://www.dn-solutions.com/] * Check out the Hennig WorkFlow Automated Pallet Delivery System [https://hennigworldwide.com/workflow] * Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) [https://www.claconnect.com/en/] Connect with Scott Shortess * Advanced PMC [https://advcosinc.com/] * Scott Shortess on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/s-scott-shortess-b30aaa1a/] Connect With Buy the Numbers * Follow on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/102691966/admin/dashboard/] * Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/growingvalue/] Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/buy-the-numbers/id1774286946] + Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/3dCmT5iQXMQR6O4hiicEpG?si=a70dbd82628140a0] Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK [https://www.podcastfasttrack.com]

Trust First, Numbers Second: The Leadership Playbook Manufacturing Shops Are Missing, Ep #43

What actually makes leadership work in a manufacturing environment? Is it KPIs, lean systems, and dashboards? Or is it something far more human? In this episode of Buy the Numbers, I sit down with Jason Woodard, COO of Geislinger Corporation and author of Manufacturing Leadership That Works, to unpack the leadership principles that drive real operational performance. While the conversation touches on KPIs, accountability, and operating cadence, the foundation is surprisingly simple: trust. Jason argues that before you can improve numbers, you have to earn credibility with your team through transparency, vulnerability, and consistency. The discussion explores the common traps leaders fall into, especially believing they're being kind by avoiding difficult conversations. In reality, that avoidance slowly erodes culture, drives away high performers, and lowers organizational standards. Jason shares practical examples of balancing empathy with accountability, and how clarity of expectations is the key to holding teams responsible without becoming the "jerk boss." From there, the conversation moves into operational discipline. Jason walks through the core KPIs every manufacturing business should track, why safety-quality-delivery-cost is the right order, and how leading indicators often reveal problems long before financials do. He also explains how daily, weekly, and monthly meeting cadence builds alignment and eliminates surprises. This episode blends leadership philosophy with actionable operational structure. Whether you're leading five people or five hundred, the takeaway is clear: strong culture drives strong numbers, and both require intentional leadership. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... * (0:00) The overarching theme leaders should take away from Jason's book * (2:00) Learn more about Jason Woodard and Geislinger Corporation * (5:19) An overview of Jason's book Manufacturing Leadership That Works * (10:17) Why trust is the foundation of leadership and business performance * (14:58) An investment in ProShop ERP is an investment in your business * (16:38) What is the biggest lie leaders tell themselves about performance issues? * (21:23) How to balance empathy, grace, and accountability with employees * (26:06) Why we created Hire MFG Leaders (and why you should use it) * (26:37) Why clear expectations must come before accountability * (32:03) What KPIs should manufacturing leaders track across the organization? * (36:30) How KPIs should cascade from leadership to the shop floor * (40:21) What does an effective daily production meeting look like? * (45:14) How weekly pulse meetings and monthly reviews prevent surprises * (46:45) Why leaders should "just start" building an operating cadence * (48:50) Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) * (49:30) What numbers quietly kill profitability if you don't track them * (52:07) Where to find the book and how teams can use it for development Resources & People Mentioned * An investment in ProShop ERP [https://proshoperp.com/] is an investment in your business * Why we created Hire MFG Leaders [https://makingchips.com/hiremfgleaders/](and why you should use it) * Grow your top and bottom line with CliftonLarsonAllen (CLA) [https://www.claconnect.com/en/] * Datanomix [https://datanomix.io/] Connect with Jason Woodard * Manufacturing Leadership That Works [https://www.amazon.com/Manufacturing-Leadership-That-Works-Performance-ebook/dp/B0GQJSYD5T] * Geislinger Corporation [https://www.geislinger.com/] * Buy 10 or more copies for your team and get two 30 minute calls with Jason (reach out on LinkedIn) Connect With Buy the Numbers * Follow on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/102691966/admin/dashboard/] * Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/growingvalue/] Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/buy-the-numbers/id1774286946] + Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/3dCmT5iQXMQR6O4hiicEpG?si=a70dbd82628140a0]

CMMC Is Coming — What It Means for Your Shop, Your Costs, and Your Customers, Ep #42

CMMC is no longer something manufacturers can afford to ignore. If you're doing work in the defense supply chain—or even thinking about it—this is quickly becoming a requirement, not a "nice to have." And what makes it challenging is that it's not just about passing an audit. It's about how your entire business handles data, systems, and security. In this episode of Buy the Numbers, we break down what CMMC actually means for manufacturers in practical terms. What does it require? What does it cost? And how do you even begin to approach something that touches everything from your ERP to who can access your building? We walk through the full scope of compliance—from documentation and system requirements to concepts like FedRAMP, POAMs, and shared responsibility across your vendor network. We also dig into the financial side, including how to think about ROI, the real cost and timeline, and why this could become a barrier to entry for some shops. If you're unsure whether CMMC applies to you—or how serious you need to take it yet—this episode will give you a clear, practical starting point. You will want to hear this episode if you are interested in... * (0:00) CMMC requirements and what manufacturers need to know * (3:30) Why compliance is becoming a real financial consideration * (8:52) The process of CMMC: systems, documentation, and process changes * (16:51) A discussion about FedRAMP compliance * (19:35) User access, building control, and security considerations * (22:57) Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area at FacturMFG.com/chips [http://facturmfg.com/chips] * (24:01) Get advice from a Registered Practitioner Organizations (RPOs) * (25:01) How ProShop helps you reach CMMC compliance * (31:26) The real cost of compliance and how to think about ROI * (33:51) POAM: Plan of Actions and Milestones * (35:40) CMMC compliance may be a barrier to entry for some shops—but not all * (41:47) The vendors you use must also protect CUI * (45:40) Grow your top and bottom line with CLA * (46:51) Cost and timeline for CMMC compliance * (50:04) Do your due diligence on any consultant you may use * (51:40) Ask your supplier for a "Shared Responsibility Matrix" * (54:46) Why we love SMW Autoblok for workholding * (55:30) Who is currently FedRamp compliant? * (59:41) The opportunities that will be available if you're CMMC compliant * (1:04:31) Does the math make sense for your shop to become compliant? * (1:09:10) Assess your readiness and build systems around it Resources & People Mentioned * CMMC Acronym Cheat Sheet for Manufacturers [https://makingchips.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/03/Terminology-Cheat-Sheet.pdf] * NIST SP 800-0171 Document [https://csrc.nist.gov/pubs/sp/800/171/r3/final] * Get a free report of sales opportunities in your area at FacturMFG.com/chips [http://facturmfg.com/chips] * Grow your top and bottom line with CLA [https://www.claconnect.com/en/] * Why we love SMW Autoblok [https://www.smwautoblok.com/us/en/home/] for workholding * Ask your supplier for a "Shared Responsibility Matrix [https://proshoperp.com/cmmc-level-2-compliance/]" * GroundControl [https://gndctl.com/] * HighQA [https://www.highqa.com/] Connect with Paul Van Metre * ProShop ERP [https://proshoperp.com/] * ProShop's CMMC Starter Guide [https://proshoperp.com/product/cmmc-starter-guide/] * Connect with Paul on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulvanmetre/] Connect With Buy the Numbers * Follow on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/102691966/admin/dashboard/] * Connect with Mike Payne on LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/growingvalue/] Subscribe to Buy the Numbers on Apple [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/buy-the-numbers/id1774286946] + Spotify [https://open.spotify.com/show/3dCmT5iQXMQR6O4hiicEpG?si=a70dbd82628140a0] Audio Production and Show Notes by - PODCAST FAST TRACK [https://www.podcastfasttrack.com]