The Art of the Zag

Did Google Just Kill the Internet?

At Google I/O this week, the company revealed that the traditional 10 blue links experience is being replaced with a Gemini-powered AI chat experience. Joe and Shane break down what this means for publishers, creators, and anyone who still thinks of the web as a place you visit. Why would Google detonate its own golden goose? Joe and Shane work through the possibilities: cognitive entrenchment, the race to AGI, an AI delusion gripping Silicon Valley executives, and the very real possibility that Google is making a generational mistake in real time.

The AI Reality Gap

AI demos look great. AI in real production work? Different story. Last quarter, Shane wrapped a TV show — a hybrid of live action and animation. Going in, the social media hype around AI animation tools suggested they could carry real production work. Shane tested them and was massively disappointed. Every frame of animation in the final show ended up being done by humans. That's the AI reality gap — and it's the topic of this conversation. Where AI did earn its keep on Shane's show: the operational side. Contract management, episode tracking, organizing assets. The admin layer, not the creative one. Joe and Shane unpack Shane's experience on set, then bring in AJ Thomas — founder of Good Trouble Ventures and former head of global talent at Google X's Moonshot Factory — to map where AI actually delivers versus where the hype outpaces reality. AJ's own career arc is the second story of the episode: nine months in a Honda Civic, a T-Mobile mall cart hustle that took her to top 1% of sales, executive recruiting, leadership at the Moonshot Factory, and now running a venture fund at the intersection of creativity and technology. Along the way: 36 job applications that all came back no — and six of those companies who later became her biggest clients. WHAT YOU'LL HEAR * What Shane learned testing AI animation tools — and why the social media hype was wrong * Where AI actually delivered: admin workflows, contract management, scheduling * "We are almost through the beautiful season of garbage" — AJ on AI slop * "We are humans, and we decide when AI gets in the loop" — flipping the industry's favorite phrase * From a T-Mobile mall cart to Google X to running a venture fund * Nine months living in a Honda Civic in the Bay Area * The "stupid question" that made AJ a top 1% salesperson * 36 job applications, all no — and the six that became clients * "AI-native skills are basic manners" — the contrarian take on AI workforce skills * "Entry-level CEOs": AJ's reframe for new grads worried about AI * Why managers who keep managing will get left behind * "If you expect to be managed, you're gonna fail" GUEST AJ Thomas — Founder, Good Trouble Ventures * Good Trouble Ventures: [TK] * Troublemaker Lab: [TK] * LinkedIn: [TK] CHAPTERS (00:00) Joe and Shane on AI on set (01:41) Where AI animation fell short (08:54) AJ Thomas joins (15:22) Nine months in a Honda Civic (26:11) I don't fit into any resume (49:32) We decide when AI gets in the loop (01:00:29) Entry-level CEOs (01:05:26) Expect to be managed, you fail LISTEN / SUBSCRIBE * Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2230ldzxpy4ghDz2WXCXJk * Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-art-of-the-zag/id1873441245 * Substack: https://storytellingedge.substack.com/podcast ABOUT THE SHOW The Art of the Zag is the podcast about people who win big by zagging when everyone else is zigging. Hosted by Joe Lazer (bestselling author of The Storytelling Edge and Super Skill) and Shane Snow (bestselling author of Smartcuts and Dream Teams). #TheArtOfTheZag #JoeLazer #ShaneSnow #AJThomas #GoodTroubleVentures #AIRealityGap #FutureOfWork #AI #VentureCapital #Storytelling

The Surprising Science of Great Stories

What if a neuroscientist could measure exactly which stories change your brain -- and which ones fall flat? Dr. Paul Zak is the neuroeconomist who spent two decades answering that question. His lab discovered that great stories spike oxytocin -- the neurochemical behind trust -- and built a platform that can predict which messages will change behavior with over 80% accuracy. Joe and Shane have written about his work extensively, and in this conversation, they go deep on the foundational science of storytelling, Zak's response to the critics, and his newest research on the science of happiness. Dr. Zak is a professor at Claremont Graduate University, founder of Immersion Neuroscience, and author of four books including his latest, The Little Book of Happiness. Website: https://pauljzak.com Free SIX App: https://your6.com The Little Book of Happiness: https://www.amazon.com/Little-Book-Happiness-Scientific-Approach/dp/1544547870 Immersion Neuroscience: https://getimmersion.com Chapters: (00:00) The scientist who made Shane cry (01:46) Dr. Paul Zak joins the show (02:28) The DARPA project behind storytelling (08:31) The 15-second rule (20:25) Does oxytocin have a dark side? (29:22) Six peak experiences a day to thrive (38:12) Isolation, Gen Z, and screen time (43:49) A video that reduced racial bias (47:49) Testosterone and political leanings (57:01) You are a weirdo

3,000 Ideas in 30 Days: The Anti-McKinsey Method

Two ex-McKinsey consultants quit the firm in the early 90s to do the opposite of what McKinsey does. The first time they tried it, one company found $400 million in earnings. Jeremy Eden and Terri Long, co-CEOs of Harvest Earnings Group and authors of the New York Times bestseller "Low-Hanging Fruit," join Joe Lazer and Shane Snow to break down the Idea Harvest methodology — a 100-day process that asks the people closest to the work, not the executives in the boardroom, where the company is broken. The answers, it turns out, are almost always already inside. Get the book "Low-Hanging Fruit: 77 Eye-Opening Ways to Improve Productivity and Profits": https://www.harvestearnings.com/lowhangingfruit More on Harvest Earnings: https://www.harvestearnings.com Jeremy and Terri's podcast "The Elephant in the Boardroom" is on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. CHAPTERS (00:00) Why companies fear edgy ideas (05:08) Jeremy and Terri join the show (11:19) Why Jeremy quit McKinsey (22:34) Why companies still hire McKinsey (24:00) Heinz: 3,000 ideas in 30 days (37:40) The AI desperation trap (1:04:32) "Relax" and the case against benchmarking

The Fiction Writer Who Built Silicon Valley's Favorite Newsletter | Mario Gabriele

How does a fiction writer build one of the most influential tech publications on the planet – by publishing 15,000-word essays for an audience that everyone says has no time to read? Mario Gabriele, founder of The Generalist (163K+ subscribers, $22/month), broke every conventional rule of media and won. In this episode, Joe and Shane sit down with Mario to steal the secrets behind his unlikely media empire – from his origin story as a VC associate writing fiction before work every morning, to his counterintuitive bet on depth over speed, to why he thinks it’s extremely good to quit things. Guest links:  The Generalist: https://www.generalist.com/  Mario on X: https://twitter.com/mariogabriele  Mario on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariogabriele/ (00:00) How long should a newsletter be?  (03:47) Mario Gabriele joins the show  (13:36) The origin story: “the right amount of delusional”  (20:04) The under-competed part of the attention stack  (28:07) Joe’s $70K bet on The Generalist  (38:30) Illogical bets on depth: what’s actually worked  (43:31) Can AI replace long-form writers?  (49:22) “It’s extremely good to quit things”