The Marketing 32 Show

"We Tend to Work IN the Practice, Not ON the Practice": Why Your Team Already Knows the Solution But Doesn't Know How to Articulate It

What happens when a 1992 Alaska Airlines flight attendant moves from Seattle to Eastern Washington, decides she can't leave her kids for four days at a time, falls into dentistry through a friend of a friend, and spends the next 30+ years discovering that every dental practice has essentially the same challenges but solves them so differently that results vary wildly based on culture, engagement, and systems? Callie Ward stayed with her first practice for 10 years, went back to school for a master's degree in education, taught for 3-4 years, then realized dentistry was where it was at and came back—managing single locations, multi-locations, teams from 4 to 30+ members. When her youngest graduated high school, she'd done every report for that practice and cleaned up everything, got bored, wanted more, and started understanding "the game of dentistry" beyond the day-in-day-out routine. She spent about eight years with Productive Dentist Academy, then took the entrepreneurial leap herself (because you have to walk the talk), worked with Support DDS during her non-compete year, and opened her own consulting firm. The name? Dash Dental Consulting—named after her grandma name from her grandson (who turns nine next week) because we're born, we die, and what's in the middle is our Dash—what do we do with that Dash? In this deeply practical conversation, Callie reveals why morning huddles must start with positivity and celebrating yesterday ("who can we shout out?") before unpacking opportunities (because neuroscience supports that we're more likely to try differently in safer environments), why the year you took technology from paper charts to computers you were taught "do things this way" but never told WHY (so you never questioned whether a different way might work better), and why the most successful practices aren't the ones with perfect systems but the ones willing to experiment and celebrate what they're learning as they're learning it. She shares why hiring "really nice people who are good with people" for front office doesn't mean they're great at collecting money or training patients to show up for appointments, why nobody told her at 25 that the goal of a shopper call is to get them on the schedule (basic, right?—but nobody said it), and why you can produce $3,000/hour but if you're not collecting and you've got $100K in the over-90-days bucket because Mary's been doing collections for 30 years and she's friends with everybody so it's uncomfortable to call, you'll never feel the ROI from marketing. If you've ever wondered why some practices with the same business model thrive while others struggle, how to create a culture where team members catch each other doing jobs well done instead of only focusing on negative, or what it really means to work ON your practice instead of just IN it, this episode will completely transform how you think about leadership, systems, accountability, and what it takes to build a practice where people actually want to show up. Callie Ward never planned a career in dentistry—she was an Alaska Airlines flight attendant in 1992, moved from Seattle to Eastern Washington, and realized she couldn't leave her kids for four days at a time. A friend of a friend had a dental practice looking for somebody to hire, and Callie fell into dentistry. What she absolutely loved was the heart—the people. In a small town in Eastern Washington, patients became your family, you knew their families' families, the circle just got bigger with connections. She stayed with that first doc for about 10 years, decided she needed to go back to school, got her master's degree in education, taught for 3-4 years, then decided dentistry was where it was at and came back. She's managed single locations, multi-locations, teams as small as 4-5 members up to 30+ members. She transferred into consulting when her youngest child graduated high school—she'd done every report for that practice, cleaned up everything she could, and was bored. She wanted more and was starting to understand "the game of dentistry." It wasn't just the day-in-day-out routine; the business side was intriguing, and she likes to gamify things. She fell into consulting, had a friend doing it who made it look fun, and spent about eight years with Productive Dentist Academy. She loved her time there but knew she always felt like we need to walk the talk—if she's working with entrepreneurial dentists, she should be more entrepreneurial herself. She took a year off, worked with Support DDS during her non-compete, then opened her own consulting around 2022-2023. Dash—her company name—is actually her grandma name. Her grandson (who turns nine next week) named her Dash, and it really fit into something she's passionate about: we're born and we die, and what's in the middle is our Dash. What do we do with that Dash? Looking back at being in the trenches, it was a great job, consistent, she loved it—but it wasn't feeding her, wasn't filling her cup. She was working with providers not necessarily in the mindset of having their team work ON the business. They were looked at as clock punchers (which we need), but they weren't involved in the process of growing the business. Once she got into the management role and started seeing that side, she became passionate about helping people who show up every day. How do we help them fill their cup? Even if their role is limited (there are only so many positions in a dental practice), what blew her away working with so many different practices is that we all have the same challenges, essentially the same business (different models, different sections), but how differently we solve those problems. How different the results can be based on culture, engagement, and systems. When she came into dentistry in '92, it was a book they were scheduling. She was the technology girl taking paper charts and putting them into computers. You do things the way you were taught but don't necessarily understand WHY you do it that way. In coaching, she started learning: well, why DO we do it that way? What if we tried a different way? Could we possibly see a different result? That became fun—looking at data, getting real numbers, basing decisions on facts, but then asking "what if we tried this?" and working with the team so THEY'RE telling her what their solution is, what they could try differently, instead of her telling them what to do. It comes from teaching: she can't dictate to students "this is what you do" if she wants it to stick, if she wants them thinking outside the box. She has to ask questions that lead them where she's looking to go. But oftentimes they come up with answers she wouldn't have, and when they collaborate on that system or solution, they're more likely to do it because she wasn't just telling them what to do. She loves helping people feel great at end of day, helping docs learn how to communicate. They're really great at dentistry, but there's a whole human being behind that mouth. How do we help them connect to the human being FIRST before going to dentistry? That's where we see impacts. That's how team members continue to be passionate about their practice and not leave. COVID was brutal in the industry, and the docs seeing success are the ones able to create culture where their team is engaged, wants to show up, and looks at patients as if they're THEIR patients. The game of business is: well, there's this problem, how do we solve it? Do we have to keep solving it the same way? The irony is it takes a special person to hire a coach or consultant—it's somebody holding you accountable, it's uncomfortable, change is uncomfortable. But reality is if you've tried all the tools in your toolkit and you're still seeing the same result, you need somebody else's eyes. To Callie, consulting is like raising teenagers: if she did her job right, they're going to leave and be successful on their own. They can always come home, always have a meal, always realign, but if she did her job well, they don't need her. That's different than consultants who want to be needed, want to be right. She just wants to get them excited, line them up, get them fired up to be happy—empower them. This episode is brought to you by Marketing 32—the only dental marketing team with a performance guarantee where if you’re not growing, you don’t pay. Marketing 32 is truly invested in adding value to your practice and working with doctors they know they can over-deliver for. As Denae powerfully illustrates in this episode, having a clear vision for what you’re building—both personally and professionally—is what separates practices that thrive from practices that just react by default. Marketing 32 helps you build the patient acquisition piece of that vision through strategic online presence, content creation, and growth campaigns. But as Denae emphasizes, marketing is just one lever to pull. You also need leadership, systems consistency, and communication frameworks that empower your team to make your practice work for you instead of you working for it. If you need help with marketing and growth, reach out at marketing32.com [https://marketing32.com/] for a quick 15-minute discovery call to see if it’s a good fit.

"I Reduced My Overhead by 20% Just Like That": Why Private Practices Are Paying 60% More Than DSOs for the Exact Same Supplies

What happens when a dentist who's been talking about becoming a dentist since he was eight years old (literally playing a dentist in a school play) builds a multi-practice portfolio, gets incredible vendor discounts due to economy of scale, then sells off practices one by one and watches those discounts dwindle—and realizes private practices are getting crushed while DSOs thrive on pricing advantages that shouldn't exist? Dr. John Montoya has been practicing dentistry for over 25 years in Boulder, Colorado, and after owning multiple practices throughout his career and experiencing both sides of vendor pricing (the economy-of-scale benefits and the single-practice penalty), he founded Dental Purchasing Partners to level the playing field. His revelation was brutal: single-location practices might think they're doing great with a 5% discount on supplies, but DSOs are getting 10-60% discounts on the exact same products—and the company is still making money at those lower prices. When he scaled down from multiple locations to one practice, his discounts disappeared, and he thought "this is insane—why is the private practice paying the most out of anybody in dentistry?" So he approached his vendors, asked what he needed to do to get those discounts back, built a formulary, and started Dental Purchasing Partners to help doctors stay independent while getting the same pricing as big corporations. In this eye-opening conversation, Dr. Montoya reveals how he reduced his own overhead by 20% with just a couple simple changes (money that immediately hit the bottom line), why practice brokers have to deliver devastating news to dentists producing $1-1.8M with 80% overhead versus 60% (the guy with 60% gets way more value at sale), and why dental schools desperately need to provide MBA-level business education since the lion's share of dentists graduate and open small businesses with zero clue how to run them. He shares how DSOs buy practices producing a lot but then strip out costs (supplies, credit card processing, payroll) to make investors happy by revealing the profit that was always there but hidden, why you could run a successful million-dollar practice with 80% overhead and still take home a paycheck but miss the much bigger paycheck waiting at 60% overhead, and why Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods both have coaches despite being at the top of their game—so why don't you? If you've ever wondered whether there's a better way to negotiate vendor pricing, how much overhead is really too much, or what it takes to compete with DSO buying power without selling your independence, this episode will completely transform how you think about supply costs, profitability, and what it really means to run a lean, profitable practice that's worth more when you retire. "I Reduced My Overhead by 20% Just Like That": Why Private Practices Are Paying 60% More Than DSOs for the Exact Same Supplies What happens when a dentist who's been talking about becoming a dentist since he was eight years old (literally playing a dentist in a school play) builds a multi-practice portfolio, gets incredible vendor discounts due to economy of scale, then sells off practices one by one and watches those discounts dwindle—and realizes private practices are getting crushed while DSOs thrive on pricing advantages that shouldn't exist? Dr. John Montoya has been practicing dentistry for over 25 years in Boulder, Colorado, and after owning multiple practices throughout his career and experiencing both sides of vendor pricing (the economy-of-scale benefits and the single-practice penalty), he founded Dental Purchasing Partners to level the playing field. His revelation was brutal: single-location practices might think they're doing great with a 5% discount on supplies, but DSOs are getting 10-60% discounts on the exact same products—and the company is still making money at those lower prices. When he scaled down from multiple locations to one practice, his discounts disappeared, and he thought "this is insane—why is the private practice paying the most out of anybody in dentistry?" So he approached his vendors, asked what he needed to do to get those discounts back, built a formulary, and started Dental Purchasing Partners to help doctors stay independent while getting the same pricing as big corporations. In this eye-opening conversation, Dr. Montoya reveals how he reduced his own overhead by 20% with just a couple simple changes (money that immediately hit the bottom line), why practice brokers have to deliver devastating news to dentists producing $1-1.8M with 80% overhead versus 60% (the guy with 60% gets way more value at sale), and why dental schools desperately need to provide MBA-level business education since the lion's share of dentists graduate and open small businesses with zero clue how to run them. He shares how DSOs buy practices producing a lot but then strip out costs (supplies, credit card processing, payroll) to make investors happy by revealing the profit that was always there but hidden, why you could run a successful million-dollar practice with 80% overhead and still take home a paycheck but miss the much bigger paycheck waiting at 60% overhead, and why Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods both have coaches despite being at the top of their game—so why don't you? If you've ever wondered whether there's a better way to negotiate vendor pricing, how much overhead is really too much, or what it takes to compete with DSO buying power without selling your independence, this episode will completely transform how you think about supply costs, profitability, and what it really means to run a lean, profitable practice that's worth more when you retire. Key Moments * 00:00 - Introduction and sponsor shoutout to Marketing 32's performance guarantee * 00:30 - Shoutout to Rita Zamora's episode on social media strategy * 01:00 - Meet Dr. John Montoya: 25+ years in Boulder, founder of Dental Purchasing Partners * 01:30 - Mission: Help private practices compete with DSOs without sacrificing independence * 02:00 - Laura Brenner introduction; knowing he wanted to be dentist from early age * 02:30 - Playing a dentist in school play at age 8 * 03:00 - College journey: Considering medicine vs. dentistry, interning at hospital * 03:30 - Working at gym, meeting older gentleman who turned out to be dentist * 04:00 - "What do you do?" "I'm a dentist." "No way!" * 04:30 - Interning one day a week: Dentist loved his work, staff loved it, patients loved him * 05:00 - Four days a week in college: Different dental office every day (general, ortho, endo, oral surgery) * 05:30 - Applied to Creighton University, practiced California 7 years, moved to Colorado * 06:00 - Origin of DPP: Every practice added = better vendor deals (economy of scale) * 06:30 - The Costco model: More volume = better pricing * 07:00 - Sold last practice December 19, 2019—right before COVID * 07:30 - As he scaled down, discounts dwindled: "Why is private practice paying most?" * 08:00 - Single practices get 5% discount; DSOs get 10-60% on same products * 08:30 - Approached vendors: "What do I need to get discounts back?" Built formulary, started DPP * 09:00 - Selfishly wanted to help himself and friends; grew into business helping doctors stay independent * 09:30 - Hard part: When had single practice initially, didn't know any different * 10:00 - Doctors don't realize options exist; margins are astronomically high * 10:30 - Sales reps: "10% off!" You think it's great; DSO pays 40-60% less * 11:00 - Many doctors don't know bundling/group rates available * 11:30 - Stay independent without selling to organization telling you what to do * 12:00 - Over 80+ vendors with 10-60% average savings * 12:30 - After COVID: Staff costs up, supply costs up, doctors not making shift * 13:00 - Even 5% overhead change drops so much profit to bottom line * 13:30 - Practice brokers' bad news: "Producing $1-1.8M but overhead's 80%" * 14:00 - "When I made couple simple changes, reduced overhead by 20%—just like that" * 14:30 - That 20%: Hire staff, give raises, 401k, benefits, buy CBCT with cash (not retail) * 15:00 - Running lean and mean machine—what DSOs do * 15:30 - DSOs strip costs: "Profit was there all along—just hidden" * 16:00 - Why DSOs having such impact: Economies of scale * 16:30 - Wish dental schools provided MBA: Lion's share of dentists open business with no clue * 17:00 - "Dentistry: We're successful despite ourselves" * 17:30 - $1M practice with 80% overhead = paycheck; 60% overhead = much bigger paycheck * 18:00 - Most don't know how to get from 80% to 60% * 18:30 - DPP has coaches available; practice consultant evaluations super important * 19:00 - Michael Jordan had coach, Tiger Woods has coach—dentists should too * 19:30 - Marketing 32 part of DPP with offers for group * 20:00 - Golden nugget: Sit down, look at industry average figures * 20:30 - Where is practice vs. where should it be? What simple changes help? * 21:00 - Don't have to do one more dime in dentistry to be more profitable * 21:30 - If someone's not going over numbers with you, maybe not right person in corner * 22:00 - Need financial advisor and accountant supporting you * 22:30 - Take time, look at numbers, understand what's going on * 23:00 - Sometimes CPAs not aware of what marketing takes * 23:30 - Contact: Visit dentalpurchasingpartners.com to see vendors, schedule call Episode Summary Dr. John Montoya knew from an early age he wanted to be a dentist—so early that he played a dentist in a school play when he was eight years old. When he got to college, dentistry was still on his mind along with medicine, so he went the medical track and interned at a hospital. But the physicians he worked with weren't excited—the insurance industry had taken the love out of medicine, and they couldn't practice the way they wanted. While working at a gym (he jokes he was in shape at one point), an older gentleman kept asking about college and his career journey. When the conversation finally turned to "what do you do?", the man revealed he was a dentist. He invited John to intern at his office one day a week, and John discovered the dentist loved what he did, his staff loved it, patients loved him—he was happy. That dentist introduced him to an orthodontist friend, then an endodontist friend, then an oral surgeon. Four days a week during college, John spent each day at a different office, falling more and more in love with dentistry. He applied to dental school, got into Creighton University in Omaha, Nebraska, graduated, practiced in California for seven years, then moved to Colorado to raise a family. He owned multiple practices throughout his career before scaling back to one while building Dental Purchasing Partners. The idea for DPP started when John began adding practices to his portfolio. Every time he added a practice, his vendor deals got better due to economy of scale. When he approached vendors asking why pricing was different now, they explained: "You're going to order more." It's the Costco model—the more volume going through, the better the pricing. Originally, John planned to build an army of practices, sell the bundle, and exit dentistry on a white horse. But he changed his business plan and sold practices one by one, selling his last practice December 19, 2019—right before COVID hit (he feels bad for the doctor who bought right before the pandemic). As he scaled down, his discounts started to dwindle, and he had a revelation: "Why is the private practice paying the most out of anybody in dentistry?" DSOs thrive because 5, 10, 50, 100, or 1,000 practices get better deals through economy of scale. Single practices might think they're doing great with a 5% discount, but other places are getting 10-60% discounts on the exact same products—and the companies are still making money at those prices. John wanted his one location to get the same opportunities multi-locations were getting, so he approached vendors asking what he needed to do to get those discounts back. He put a formulary together and started building DPP. Selfishly, he wanted to help himself and several friends, but it grew into a real business with a mission: help doctors stay independent without selling portions or all of their practice to organizations that tell them what to do, while still getting the benefits of being in a huge group. The hard part for John was that when he had only a single practice initially for ~16 years, he didn't know any different—he was paying higher prices without realizing other options existed. But then he saw the other side (the benefits of multiple locations), had it ripped away, and was back to where he started. The problem is that doctors don't realize other options are available because they're not showcased, and margins are astronomically high. Sales reps say "we'll knock 10% off this $100 widget" and you think you got the bargain of the century, while a DSO office down the street is paying 40-60% less—and the company is still making money selling at that price. Now DPP offers over 80+ vendors giving members discounts, with the suggestion to go through what you're using and price compare. On average, members see 10-60% savings depending on how aggressive they want to get. After COVID changed the industry forever with staff costs and supply costs going up while doctors haven't made the shift to adjust, even a 5% change in overhead drops so much profit to the bottom line. Thinking long-term about retirement, practice brokers often have to deliver bad news: "You're producing $1-1.8M but your overhead's 80%—the guy down the street doing $1M with 60% overhead gets more value when you sell." It's not what you're producing that matters—it's how much you spend. When John made a couple simple changes in his office, he reduced his overhead by 20% just like that, and it immediately hit the bottom line. That 20% means you can hire staff, give raises, provide 401k and benefits they've been asking for, buy that new CBCT with cash (but don't pay retail). You can give yourself a raise or retire early if you want—so much becomes possible when you're not worrying about paying bills every month. This is what DSOs do: they buy practices producing a lot, then strip out costs (supplies, credit card processing, payroll), getting the same services but cutting expenses, lowering overhead, and making investors super happy because the profit was there all along—it was just hidden. That's why DSOs and private equity are having such impact in the industry. John wishes dental schools provided something like an MBA because while we go to school for four years to be dentists, the lion's share of dentists graduate and open small businesses with no idea how to run one. Dentistry is unique because "we're successful despite ourselves"—you could run a successful $1M practice with 80% overhead and still take home a paycheck, but that same practice with 60% overhead means a much bigger paycheck. Most doctors don't know how to get from 80% to 60%, and that's all business practices, systems, and tracking what you spend. DPP has coaches available for members (hired separately), and John believes having a practice consultant do evaluations is a super important component—it doesn't have to be forever, but it's key. Michael Jordan had a coach, Tiger Woods has a driving coach—athletes at the top of their game have coaches, so why shouldn't dentists? His golden nugget: sit down with your accountant (hopefully a good one) and look at industry average figures. Where is your practice versus where should it be? What simple changes can help you grow? You don't have to do one more dime in dentistry to be more profitable—you could do the same amount tomorrow and beyond and still be profitable with a few key changes. Look at your numbers, identify what's out of line, figure out how to change it. If someone's not going over these numbers with you, maybe they're not the right person in your corner. You need people supporting you, not just watching you go day by day—your financial advisor to plan for retirement, your accountant to handle taxes and position your business where it should be compared to successful practices. Take time, look at your numbers, understand what's going on.

"Google Started Indexing Social Media in July 2025": Why Your Dancing Videos Won't Help AI Understand Your Dental Implant Expertise

What happens when a treatment coordinator at a startup Denver periodontist practice spends a decade helping grow it from one doctor and three team members to five periodontists, 20+ team members, and multiple locations—then starts writing a blog about social media for dentistry that takes off and leads to speaking internationally about Facebook when it was brand new? Rita Zamora is a dental social media expert, speaker, and author of "Get Found, Get Liked, Get Patients: Making the Most of Social Media," and as founder of Connect90, she helps practices increase visibility, build trust, and influence which dentists get recommended in today's AI-powered search environment. But here's what most dental teams don't know: Google started indexing public social media content as of July 2025, which means social media no longer lives in the silos of Facebook and Instagram where only followers see your content—now anyone using Google or Gemini can discover your posts, and that changes everything about how you should approach content strategy. The cookie-cutter stock photography posts that dental practices have been scheduling for $200/month? AI knows it's stock photography, so you're not helping AI understand who you are or what's unique about your practice. The dancing videos and dental skits that went viral and got 10,000 views? If they're reaching people nationally or globally through Instagram's algorithm, how many of those viewers are actually going to drive to your practice? In this eye-opening conversation, Rita reveals why the old strategy of 80% social content and 20% dental content is being flipped to 80% strategic dental topics (what you want to be known for) and 20% human/social content, why alt text is a powerful backend signal that AI can read to understand your Invisalign expertise, and why the one word that matters most for dental marketing success is "habits"—creating consistent processes to capture photos and videos that tell your practice story. She shares how one dentist grew clear aligner therapy by consistently posting team members and patients holding aligner boxes (an "old idea" that works because it creates visual and textual patterns AI can recognize), why you need to think of social media as a publishing tool for overall Google visibility rather than just trying to win over platform algorithms, and why James Clear and Arthur Brooks are right that habits are the most powerful tool you have. If you've ever wondered why your social media manager keeps posting content that doesn't convert patients, how to help AI tools answer "who's a good dentist for me" with YOUR name, or what it really means to create content that connects with patients while signaling credibility to AI, this episode will completely transform how you think about social media strategy in the AI era. Rita Zamora's journey into dental social media began at a startup periodontist practice in Denver, Colorado, where she started as one of three team members alongside a solo periodontist. Over a decade, she watched the practice grow to five periodontists, over 20 team members, and multiple locations while she worked in various roles: front desk and admin, case presentation for big perio and implant cases (treatment coordinator was one of her favorite positions), then transitioning into marketing with referral marketing and direct-to-consumer strategies. When social media entered the picture, she started writing a blog about social media for dentistry that took off organically. She got invited to speak at local meetings about Facebook when it was brand new, which led to speaking engagements across the country and internationally. That momentum led her to start Connect90, her agency that now works with clients across the US, Canada, and Australia. But social media has changed dramatically, especially with the advent of AI, and Rita believes things have "kind of gone off the rails" for dental teams. There's a tsunami of AI coming into the picture affecting online visibility for dentists, and most critically, there's a massive change most dentists are unaware of: Google started indexing public social media content as of July 2025. Marketers have known this for months, but it's a game changer because social media no longer lives in the silos of Facebook and Instagram where only followers see your content. Now anyone using Google or Gemini (Google's AI tool) can discover your social posts, which means you have to think about social content in a completely different way. The main reason dental practices spend time on social media is for marketing—converting patients, attracting patients, and letting AI know what your practice story is. As more people use Gemini and other AI tools to ask "who's a good dentist for me?", practices need to ensure AI systems understand who they are and what makes them unique. Rita's three core action items: (1) Ditch cookie-cutter social media if you haven't already, (2) Stop using stock photography because people don't like it and AI knows it's stock (so you're not helping AI understand your uniqueness), and (3) Decide on the one or two things you want to be known for. Most dentists say dental implants and clear aligners are their top two. The critical shift is that you need to think about repeating content consistently instead of constantly creating different entertainment—skits, dancing, viral attempts. Practices have been lured by social media algorithms to entertain and chase visibility, but over the years, they've lost the ability to be found even in front of their own followers. The real mindset shift is thinking about social media's value not just for discovery within platforms, but as a publishing tool for overall Google visibility. The majority of patients still use Google, and if you're using Google, you're using Gemini (Google's AI tool) whether you know it or not. The opportunity is using Facebook and Instagram strategically as publishing tools to build your story for Google and AI visibility, not just trying to win over platform algorithms. Rita tested this with a personal Instagram reel she created for fun about meeting a friend in their twenties (they worked together at the perio practice). It got 10,000 views and hundreds of likes not because it would help her dental marketing business, but because Instagram's stated goal is getting content creators in front of new followers—nationally or globally. That raises the question: how many of those patients will actually drive to see you when your dental skit or dancing video goes viral? It's a different mindset. If you're doing social media to entertain or win algorithms, you're missing the real value: letting Google and AI tools know who you are, what you specialize in, and what kind of patient is a good fit. For actionable tips that work for both patients and AI without isolating patients, Rita shares an example of a client who wanted to grow clear aligner treatments using Invisalign. The goal wasn't just letting patients know what she offers, but helping AI understand the practice story through consistent repeated topics and content patterns—not posting once or twice monthly. They started having the dentist take pictures of team members or patients with the clear aligner box or holding an aligner. People might dismiss this as an "old idea," but it works because it visually lets patients recognize the brand while signaling to AI. In the caption, you can mention clear aligners and the brand name, but you can also use alt text (created for vision-impaired people but readable by AI) as a backend way to say "young woman holding Invisalign box, Invisalign clear aligner." Doing this consistently creates patterns AI can understand. Patients see your Instagram grid with dozens of photos (team, patients, video snippets explaining FAQs), creating a real pattern that both AI and patients recognize. Rita works with practices in two ways through Connect90: a content calendar and scheduling tool that provides content suggestions based on what you want to promote (aligners, implants, whitening), where your responsibility is taking photos/videos and uploading them to the calendar to prepare for publishing. But many busy teams want done-for-you service, so they send photos and videos and Rita's team handles everything while personalizing content for each practice's personality and what they want to be known for—no cookie cutter approaches. Success stories include practices getting started or those who fell off and haven't posted in years—sometimes they stay long-term, sometimes Rita gets them up and running and they take over internally. What's most rewarding is continuing to evolve through all the different phases of social media, from when followers on Facebook and Instagram would see all your content to now where the strategy is flipping from the old recommendation of 80% social content and 20% dental content to 80% strategic dental topics (what you want to be known for) and 20% social/human content. A dentist told Rita just last week she was elated they wouldn't focus on as many social topics: "I could talk about clear aligners or implants all day long." Dentists are excited to talk about what they're passionate about instead of worrying about algorithms, thinking of social as a publishing tool for overall visibility. Everyone has a different definition of "professional"—it doesn't mean buttoned up wearing a white coat. But staying on theme and topics prevents AI from hallucinating and making up stories about your practice when you don't have enough consistent information. Rita's golden nugget is one word: habits. She's a huge fan of James Clear and Arthur Brooks who talk extensively about habits. The most powerful tool dentists have—specifically for dental marketing and capturing photos/videos—is thinking in terms of habits and setting up a method to get consistent content. Brett shares an example from Revive Dental in Phoenix (Dr. Nate Farley and Kent Howell), his first dental client from 2014 who's still working with Marketing 32. They have high-quality before/after transformation images all over their practice, and one of their operatories was converted into a photo shoot studio for testimonial videos and before/afters—not just phone photos, but professional quality. When an all-on-X patient finishes treatment, they walk them to that room, get the testimonial and shots. It's a process that makes capturing content easy and consistent, which is exactly what creates the patterns and stories that help both patients and AI understand what you do and who you are. This episode is brought to you by Marketing 32—the only dental marketing team with a performance guarantee that if you're not growing your practice with our help, you don't pay. It's that simple. Marketing 32 doesn't work with everybody—we look for practices that would be a great fit where we can really make an impact. As Rita powerfully illustrates in this episode, the landscape of dental marketing is changing dramatically with AI and Google indexing social media content as of July 2025. Your social media isn't just about platform visibility anymore—it's a publishing tool for overall Google visibility and helping AI understand your practice story. Marketing 32 specializes in paid advertising strategies (Facebook, Instagram, Google) that complement your organic social media efforts, but as Rita emphasizes, you need consistent content patterns and habits to tell your story effectively. If you think you need help and you'd be a good fit with us, head over to marketing32.com [https://marketing32.com], set up a call, and we'll have a quick conversation to see what your goals are and if we'd be a great fit to help you.

People Don't Buy Solutions to Problems They Don't Perceive to Have": Why 95% of Case Acceptance Happens Before You Ever Mention the Crown

What happens when a business degree graduate joins his father-in-law's dental practice expecting to learn entrepreneurship for a few years, hates it for the first four or five months, then discovers mentors who show him there's a better way to avoid burnout—and eventually doubles the practice to a million dollars by 2000 by focusing on communication skills instead of clinical expertise? Eric Vickery spent over a decade managing dental practices before becoming a coach in 2001, and he's since coached more than 250 dental offices nationwide through All-Star Dental Academy, where he's now president of coaching alongside 13+ coaches working with approximately 150 offices monthly. His core philosophy is simple but powerful: most practices are MAG-level, level-10 clinical practitioners, but their communication skills are level five—and patients only perceive value at that level. Dale Carnegie said 85% of your success is in your people skills, not your technical skills. So when doctors look in patients' mouths and rattle off dental jargon—"You have an MODL amalgam with defective margins, class five on the buccal, you need a crown buildup and a crown"—all the patient hears is "dollar, dollar, dollar," and the doctor walks out thinking they crushed it because the patient said "no questions" like Ricky Bobby talking to the smartest person in the room. Then the patient immediately turns to the hygienist asking "what did he say?" and tells the front desk "it's not bothering me, I'm gonna wait." In this revealing conversation, Eric unpacks the 95-5 rule for case acceptance (spend 95% of communication on the problem, condition, and consequences, only 5% on treatment), why an 80% new patient call conversion rate is incredibly difficult to achieve without pressure tactics, and why practices shouldn't pay insurance companies 42% of revenue (working four months a year for free) when they could invest that money in their team, retirement, and fair compensation instead. He shares killer words that crush case acceptance (little, tiny, small, kinda, maybe, possibly), the reverse-engineered math showing that 20 new patients requires 40 converted calls which requires 80 total calls including after-hours, and why the hero's journey matters—because the patient is the hero and you're Obi-Wan Kenobi, not the other way around. If you've ever wondered why patients say "I'll wait until it hurts," why recording calls and listening to AI coaching feedback is non-negotiable, or how an analogy about a sledgehammer splitting a log can replace confusing dental jargon and transform case acceptance, this episode will completely change how you think about communication, value perception, and what it really takes to help patients get healthier faster. Eric Vickery never anticipated a career in dentistry—he had a business degree and was climbing the banking ladder when his father-in-law, a dentist, made an offer: come learn how to run a business, be entrepreneurial, and then go do something else. Eric managed his practice for six of ten total years in practice management, and for the first four or five months, he hated it. He thought joining dentistry was a huge mistake, couldn't believe he'd left banking for this. But he was blessed with mentors early on who showed him there's a better way to practice effectively without burnout, without the hamster wheel exhaustion. They implemented systems from 1998 through 2000 focused on communication skills and human skills—the soft skill side of dentistry. His father-in-law was an MAG-D level, level-10 clinical practitioner, but their communication skills were level five. Because of that gap, patients only perceived value at the communication level, not the clinical level. They doubled the practice to a million dollars (incredible at the time) by recognizing that Dale Carnegie was right: 85% of success is in people skills, not technical expertise. You need to be an expert clinician AND expert at people skills so patients can get healthier faster. Eric got into coaching in 2001, met Alex and Heather at All-Star Dental Academy around 2014-15, became partners in 2021 on the coaching and events side, and now leads 13+ coaches across North America working with approximately 150 offices live every month on KPIs, leadership coaching, phone skills, case acceptance, stopping cancellations, and insurance freedom. Everyone should be recording their calls—there are only two options: growing or declining, and the only people declining are coasting. AI will coach you at the end of sessions telling you what you could have done better. The minimum is picking two calls monthly: one you crushed and one that didn't go well, then identifying the difference. All-Star offers call grading services where team members listen to new patient calls, grade them, and send feedback to you and your doctor. An 80% new patient call conversion rate is very difficult to achieve, and most people don't understand how hard that is without pressure tactics, over-promising, ugly sales techniques, or bait-and-switch "free" offers. They use simple Excel trackers: how many calls taken, how many converted, what was the marketing source for both converted and non-converted. The principle is simple: you improve what you measure. Every patient has an annual value ($900-$1,000 minimum for high-quality practices), but new patient value is much higher—average treatment plan size should be $4,500 or more. The ideal isn't 100 new patients or 60—it's 15-20 adult comprehensive exam new patients (not kids, not emergencies, not one-and-done freebies). Reverse engineer the numbers: if you want 20 new patients (half referred, half from online marketing like Marketing 32), and you have 50% conversion, you need 40 answered calls between 8am-5pm. But there were probably another 40 calls outside those hours you didn't see, so you actually need 80 calls. Then calculate how many website clicks to get those 80 calls. Most admin people (Eric admits he's guilty of this) treated the phone like an alarm clock going off too early instead of recognizing it as opportunity. What distorted the phone view was cancellations—patients calling saying "I'm so glad you called, I was getting ready to call you, that tooth isn't bothering me." The hero's journey matters because the patient is the hero and you're the guide—you're Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're Yoda, you're not Harry Potter. You put your hand out to help the heroes. When a $4,500 new patient doesn't show up, you've lost all that value plus all the marketing costs and energy spent to get them there. Marketing teams often focus on rankings, traffic, and social media likes, but practices need to connect different metrics: marketing spend → calls → booked → came in for treatment. If you can pay $100-$200 to acquire a new patient with $4,500 treatment plan value, do it all day long. Their KPI tracker shows by marketing source how many new patients divided by dollars spent. If you're spending $3K on online marketing and getting only two new patients, there's a problem. But $3K for 10 new patients = $300 per patient with $4,500 value = worth it. Some clients spend $50K monthly on marketing for all-on-4 and full mouth cosmetics/reconstruction, getting 10 patients and 10Xing their investment. Case acceptance goals: 80% of patients should schedule something, and 60% of treatment plan dollars should be scheduled. If you're presenting $100K monthly, $60K should be scheduled. If your average exam value is only $1K, you either have a really healthy patient base or you're approval addicted and not treatment planning properly. Eric's signature framework is the 95-5 Rule for case acceptance. Doctors focus on solutions, looking in mouths and rattling off dental jargon—"You have an MODL amalgam with defective margins, class five on the buccal, you need a crown buildup and a crown." Or they call out to their assistant "crown on #3, crown on #4, crown on #5" and all the patient hears is "dollar, dollar, dollar." The core problem: people don't buy solutions to problems they don't perceive to have. When patients say "it's not bothering me, I'm gonna wait," they don't perceive there's a problem because they think crowns are for pain. The 95-5 Rule says spend 95% of communication on the problem, the condition, and the consequences if they don't do anything—only 5% on treatment. There are three categories of killer words to eliminate: (1) Minimizing severity ("little decay," "tiny pinhole cavity," "small amount of bleeding")—when a $350 composite is described as "small cavity," it doesn't align with the "not small" price. (2) Filler words that permit doubt ("um," "kinda," "maybe," "possibly," "might," "someday," "considering")—submissive, uncertain language that lets the husband tell his wife "he said it MIGHT be a problem." (3) Dental jargon patients don't understand—like a physician saying "breathe in, exhale, schedule surgery stat" with no connection. Doctors walk out thinking they crushed it because the patient said "no questions, Ricky Bobby" (smartest person in the room), then the patient immediately asks the hygienist "what did he say?" and tells the front desk "I'm gonna wait." Replace killer words with analogies that don't exaggerate: "That old metal filling is operating on your tooth like a wedge in a log you're chopping wood with, but you don't have an ax, you have a sledgehammer pounding, fracturing the log vertically, allowing decay to go to the nerve—like the center of a Tootsie Pop. Once decay hits the center, you have sensitivity, toothache, root canal. Two potential outcomes: the log splits vertically and you lose the tooth (extraction), or decay reaches the center (root canal). Or you could prevent all that. How concerned are you with stopping that from happening?" Then look to your assistant and say "foundation, full coverage"—not "crown," which makes them think dollars. Eric's golden nugget is insurance freedom—being an out-of-network provider, not necessarily fee-for-service, but not struggling to pay bills or running out of money at month's end. The average in-network dentist writes off 42% for plans, which means working four to four-and-a-half months every year for free. Single to four-doctor practices aren't wired for PPO networks—they're not hospitals, they don't get grants, they don't have donors. Why would you pay a marketing company 42% to bring in new patients when you could invest that money in paying your team well, investing in your business, setting aside retirement, and getting fair compensation? All-Star has systems to help practices successfully get out of insurance, growing practices by tens of thousands monthly. Explore getting free of insurance—it's the trend in dentistry as people recognize the cost and get tired of working for insurance companies despite the fear and uncertainty of making that leap. This episode is brought to you by Marketing 32—the only dental marketing agency with a performance guarantee: you'll grow or you don't pay. It's really that simple. Marketing 32 is truly invested in those they work with. They don't work with everybody—they try to find great fits with practices they know they can crush it for and kill it. As Eric powerfully illustrates in this episode, marketing is just one piece of the patient acquisition puzzle. You need the calls to actually answer (not go to voicemail), you need front desk teams converting at 60-80% instead of 10-15%, and you need case acceptance systems so patients don't say "it's not bothering me, I'll wait." Marketing gets patients to call—but what happens after that determines whether your marketing investment pays off. If you need help with growth, check out marketing32.com [https://marketing32.com] for a quick discovery call to see if it's a great fit together.

"If We're Not Failing, We're Not Trying": How Turning Dentistry Into a Trade and Celebrating Failures Built a Multi-Location Powerhouse

What happens when someone who didn't know what a prophy was—or even understand what a root canal really involved—answers phones at a dental practice, falls in love with the leadership piece, and eventually becomes director of operations for a growing group practice with a weekly executive cadence focused on celebrating failures? Denae Black has turned dentistry into her trade over 20 years, climbing from front desk to office manager to director of operations, learning that the key to scaling from one location to multiple practices isn't about having perfect systems—it's about having consistent systems that everyone follows the same way, giving yourself grace for the 20% that will be different based on team and patient base, and getting comfortable with difficult conversations. After her husband's Air Force orders relocated them from Arizona to North Carolina, she joined a practice where she sat on the executive level team with Eric Roman as visionary, working alongside directors of marketing, hygiene, and finance in structured weekly meetings where the mantra was clear: if you're not failing, you're not trying. Now as owner and consultant of Dental DNA Consulting, she takes clients through a three-phase journey—Dream It (define what you're building), Narrate (create a customized plan), Accelerate (roll up sleeves and implement)—partnering closely with practices navigating transitions like expanding locations, dropping insurance, reducing clinical days, or preparing for retirement. In this conversation, Denae reveals why leadership is the most common barrier holding practices back (you know the hard conversations you need to have, you're just not prioritizing them), why annual performance reviews are useless (you're really only reviewing the last 2-3 months anyway), and why communication isn't just important—it's the difference between being a proactive leader versus a reactive one who has no idea the hygienist was unhappy until she puts in her notice. She shares her trust tracker system for managing weekly check-ins without formal calendar blocks, the paper airplane exercise that proves consistent systems beat perfect systems every time, and why her biggest wins aren't revenue numbers—they're when dentists finally take month-long international vacations because their practice works for them instead of them working for their practice. If you've ever wondered how to transition from operator to CEO, why quarterly reviews replace annual ones, or what it really takes to build a practice with intention rather than just reacting by default, this episode will give you the clarity and vision you've been missing. Denae Black never imagined dentistry would become her trade, but when she started answering phones at a group practice in Arizona—not knowing what a prophy was or really understanding what a root canal involved—the practice took her under their wing and taught her everything: phones, check-in, check-out, treatment planning, eventually office management. She fell in love with the leadership piece. When her husband got Air Force orders to relocate to North Carolina, she took a director of operations position that unlocked her passion for the business side of dentistry. This was where she learned the foundation of systems, best practices, and what it takes to scale from one location to two to three and beyond. She eventually consulted with various groups before launching Dental DNA Consulting independently in May 2024, turning her 20-year journey from knowing nothing into a comprehensive trade mastery. Her background with Eric Roman and Josie Sewell taught her that growing a group practice isn't about perfection—it's about structure, consistency, and culture. She sat on an executive team of five (visionary, director of ops, director of marketing, director of hygiene, finance) with structured weekly cadence meetings focused on one mantra: if you're not failing, you're not trying. Getting uncomfortable and celebrating failures was essential. The key insight: 80% of what happens in a practice can be duplicated, but 20% will be different based on team, patient base, and flow—so give yourself grace while maintaining strong systems. The DNA approach she developed takes clients through three phases: Dream It (D), Narrate (N), and Accelerate (A). The Dream It phase locks in what you're building—defining your vision and ensuring team structure supports that dream. Many dentists have ideas but don't know how to communicate them, so this phase creates clarity. The Narrate phase builds a customized plan to actually make it happen, and the Accelerate phase is where Denae rolls up her sleeves and partners with the team to bring everything to life. Her ideal clients are practices navigating transitions: expanding from one to two locations, dropping from five clinical days to three or four, navigating dropping insurance, or preparing for retirement. These clients are goal-oriented, which aligns perfectly with her approach. The most common barrier she encounters is leadership—specifically, that practices know the hard conversations they need to have and the shifts they need to make, but they're not prioritizing them. Maybe they're uncomfortable, maybe they don't know how to squeeze time in, but the leadership deficit is what holds most practices back from reaching the next level. Communication is Denae's foundation for everything. She recommends weekly or bi-weekly check-ins with three simple questions: What's working well? What's not working well? How can I support you? These don't need to be formal calendar appointments—they're hallway conversations, casual touchpoints that build the trust triangle so team members know you have their best interests in mind. The key is not owning all their problems. When they raise issues, respond with "I have some ideas, but I'd love to hear your thoughts first"—building solution-focused team members instead of becoming the problem dump or the vent they eventually stop talking to. This proactive approach prevents the reactive leadership nightmare: "I had no idea the hygienist wasn't happy until she put in her notice." Leaders often avoid these conversations because they don't want to hear problems, but solution-focused communication is make-or-break. Denae provides clients with a "trust tracker"—an Excel spreadsheet to organize conversations and action items. Every conversation should result in an action item, even if it's just "I'll check back in two weeks." With large teams, it's easy to lose track of commitments, so the trust tracker ensures follow-through. She completely eliminates annual performance reviews (which only reflect the last 2-3 months anyway) in favor of quarterly reviews covering core values and performance. The other major bottleneck is systems consistency. Denae uses a paper airplane exercise to illustrate this: when everyone builds planes differently, they go everywhere—some drop at their feet, others left, others right, others far. But when one person shows everyone the same method, they all go farther in the same direction. The system doesn't have to be perfect (there's no such thing), but it has to be consistent. Even great leadership can't overcome inconsistent systems. Her partnerships typically involve meeting 1-2 times monthly—one meeting with leadership on business, one meeting with team on systems and alignment. She's based in Michigan but works with practices nationwide, flying out about twice a year for big initiatives like annual goal-setting with full team buy-in. She's available Monday-Friday and gets nervous if she doesn't hear from clients between meetings ("what fires are you putting out?"). Her biggest wins aren't revenue numbers—they're personal life transformations. When a stressed dentist with low cash flow builds reserves to weather bad months without panic, or drops to three days a week and takes month-long international vacations because their practice finally works for them instead of them working for it—that's the win. Dentistry is unique because people need it, so practices can run without deeply knowing numbers. But when you know what levers to pull, the impact on your life is huge. Whether clients want 10 locations working seven days a week or want to retire in five years, Denae helps them build what works for them. Her golden nugget: Have a vision. Be crystal clear on what you're building in personal and professional life. When you can see what you're trying to build, how to get there becomes much clearer. That's purpose—living life with intention instead of living by default, just reacting to whatever comes your way. This episode is brought to you by Marketing 32—the only dental marketing team with a performance guarantee where if you're not growing, you don't pay. Marketing 32 is truly invested in adding value to your practice and working with doctors they know they can over-deliver for. As Denae powerfully illustrates in this episode, having a clear vision for what you're building—both personally and professionally—is what separates practices that thrive from practices that just react by default. Marketing 32 helps you build the patient acquisition piece of that vision through strategic online presence, content creation, and growth campaigns. But as Denae emphasizes, marketing is just one lever to pull. You also need leadership, systems consistency, and communication frameworks that empower your team to make your practice work for you instead of you working for it. If you need help with marketing and growth, reach out at marketing32.com [https://marketing32.com] for a quick 15-minute discovery call to see if it's a good fit.