The Viking Chats: navigating the choppy waters of property, technology and business

You can't train someone to care! with Clare Yates & Jo Bourne

What if the biggest problem facing estate agency isn't regulation, technology or even the market itself? What if it's people? Not because we don't have enough of them, but because we're still asking the wrong questions when we recruit them, develop them and lead them. In this episode of The Viking Chats, I'm joined by two of the industry's most respected trainers and leadership specialists, Clare Yates and Jo Bourne, for a conversation that quickly challenges some of the biggest assumptions surrounding recruitment, training and professional development in property. We begin by exploring a topic that every agency owner wrestles with: should you recruit experienced agents, or look outside the industry altogether? It's a debate that struck a particular chord with me because it's something we've consciously done at Base Property Specialists from day one. Rather than simply hiring people who've always worked in estate agency, we've often looked to industries like hospitality, where customer experience, communication and genuinely caring about people are fundamental parts of the job. As Jo puts it during the conversation, technical skills can be taught. What can't be taught is whether somebody genuinely cares. That single observation becomes the thread running through the entire episode. We discuss why attitude almost always beats experience, why so many agencies still underestimate the value of emotional intelligence and customer service, and how some of the very best estate agents don't necessarily arrive with years of industry knowledge—they arrive with curiosity, empathy and a willingness to learn. The conversation then broadens into something even more important: leadership. For all the industry's talk about compliance, legislation and systems, we arguably spend far too little time developing the people responsible for leading our businesses and teams. Clare and Jo explain why leadership isn't simply about managing performance or understanding process. It's about creating environments where people feel safe enough to ask questions, admit mistakes and continue learning without fear of judgement. That philosophy sits at the heart of the Women in Estate Agency Leadership Programme, which they have developed together. Although designed specifically to support women stepping into leadership roles, many of the principles we discuss are universal. Confidence, psychological safety, self-belief and effective communication aren't gendered concepts. They're the foundations of every successful team. Along the way we explore why so many talented people underestimate their own ability, why others often overestimate theirs, and how creating opportunities for personal development can transform not only individual careers but entire business cultures. We also discuss the industry's long-standing reluctance to invest in training. Too often, learning is viewed purely through the lens of legislation or compliance, something that has to be done rather than something that should be embraced. Yet some of the most valuable development has very little to do with technical knowledge and everything to do with communication, confidence, listening and understanding people. Because estate agency has never really been about property. It's always been about people. Buying, selling, renting or letting a home is one of the most emotional experiences many of us will ever go through, and the professionals who guide people through those moments have an opportunity to make an extraordinary difference. But only if they understand that service is about far more than completing a transaction. One of my favourite moments in the episode comes when we compare estate agency to hospitality. Nobody expects to walk into a five-star hotel and receive the same experience as a budget chain, even though both ultimately provide you with a bed for the night. The difference isn't the product. It's how you're made to feel. Perhaps estate agency should start thinking about itself in exactly the same way. This is a conversation about confidence, culture, customer experience and creating better businesses by first creating better people. And if our industry genuinely wants to raise standards, maybe the answer isn't simply more regulation. Maybe it's investing more in the people delivering the service in the first place. Send us Fan Mail [https://www.buzzsprout.com/2466948/fan_mail/new]

Success Doesn't Come From Staying Comfortable with Verona Frankish

What does great leadership actually look like? Is it having all the answers? Being the loudest voice in the room? Always appearing confident? Or is it something much simpler- and much harder- than that? In this episode of The Viking Chats, I'm joined by Verona Frankish, CEO of Yopa and Chair of Women in Estate Agency (WIEA), for a conversation that starts with career progression but quickly becomes something far more interesting. Because Verona's journey to leading one of the UK's best-known estate agency brands wasn't built on having all the answers. It was built on a willingness to keep stepping into situations where she didn't. From her early career in retail and financial services, through Mortgage Advice Bureau, Purplebricks and ultimately to the CEO role at Yopa, Verona has consistently chosen growth over comfort. Time and again she has taken on responsibilities she wasn't an expert in, surrounded herself with people who knew more than she did, and focused on creating environments where those people could thrive. It's a refreshing perspective on leadership that feels increasingly relevant in today's world. We talk openly about the misconception that great leaders need to be the smartest person in the room, why building teams of genuine experts is one of the greatest strengths a leader can possess, and how psychological safety transforms both businesses and the people within them. Verona also shares the personal values that have guided her career, including the difficult decision to walk away from a senior role when the direction of the business no longer aligned with her own principles. It's an honest discussion about integrity, knowing what matters to you and recognising that success isn't simply about reaching the top- it's about being able to look yourself in the mirror when you get there. A significant part of the conversation focuses on Women in Estate Agency, an organisation that has grown from a small Facebook community during the pandemic into one of the industry's most influential movements. Verona explains how WIEA evolved, why its annual event feels so different from traditional conferences, and why creating spaces where people feel seen, heard and valued has become such an important part of her life. What becomes clear is that WIEA has never really been about women versus men. It's about helping people find the confidence to use their voice, challenge their own assumptions and realise they are capable of far more than they perhaps believed. Along the way we also discuss hybrid estate agency, leading national businesses, balancing demanding careers with family life, the lessons COVID unexpectedly taught many leaders, and why stepping outside your comfort zone is a skill that can be developed rather than a personality trait you're simply born with. One of my favourite moments in the episode comes when Verona talks about becoming CEO. Despite reaching one of the highest leadership positions in the industry, she still describes herself simply as "a Derry girl doing her best." That humility, combined with an unwavering commitment to authenticity, runs through the entire conversation. Whether you're leading a business, managing a team or simply wondering what the next chapter of your own career might look like, there is something in this episode that will resonate. Because success rarely comes from staying comfortable. It comes from being willing to take the next step, even when you don't yet know exactly where it will lead. Send us Fan Mail [https://www.buzzsprout.com/2466948/fan_mail/new]

Property, AI & the Future of Trust with Sandra Jones of PriceHubble

There’s a fascinating shift happening across the property industry right now. On the surface, most of the conversation appears to revolve around legislation. The Renter’s Rights Act. Tribunal reform. EPC targets. Compliance changes. Data transparency. AI. New expectations from consumers. But underneath all of that sits something much bigger: Trust. Who has the information. Who controls the process. And what happens when technology fundamentally changes the balance between the two. In this episode of The Viking Chats, I sit down with Sandra Jones, formerly of Dataloft and now part of global property technology business PriceHubble, for a conversation that starts with housing market data and gradually expands into the future architecture of the property industry itself. Sandra has spent decades analysing property markets, understanding behavioural trends and helping agents translate complex data into something meaningful, visual and commercially useful. Following PriceHubble’s acquisition of Dataloft in 2023, that capability has now merged with vast property-level data infrastructure, AI tools and predictive analytics operating across multiple international markets. And what emerges from this conversation is a fascinating insight into where the industry may be heading next. We explore why data has become one of the most valuable assets within modern property businesses, not simply from a valuation or market analysis perspective, but because consumers increasingly expect transparency around almost every aspect of housing. From rental pricing and affordability to energy efficiency and local market movement, the demand for evidence-backed communication is only increasing. One of the most compelling parts of the discussion centres around the rental market and the implications of the Renter’s Rights Act. Sandra explains how PriceHubble’s new Rental Evidence Report is designed to help agents and landlords justify rent increases transparently through real achieved rental data rather than vague market assumptions. Because as we discuss throughout the episode, the days of simply telling consumers “that’s the market rate” without evidence behind it are rapidly disappearing. And AI is likely to accelerate that change dramatically. We dive deep into the growing role of artificial intelligence within property and what happens when consumers no longer need specialist industry knowledge to understand their rights, challenge decisions or navigate increasingly complex legislation. If AI can instantly interpret tenancy agreements, identify compliance gaps or assess the fairness of rent increases, then the entire relationship between agents, landlords and tenants starts evolving very quickly. That creates both opportunity and risk. On one hand, greater transparency should drive professionalism, consistency and trust across the sector. On the other, it may also create a more litigious and process-heavy environment if technology removes friction from disputes entirely. We also discuss: *  why 'achieved rental' data matters more than asking prices  *  the unintended consequences of banning rental bidding wars  *  the growing complexity around EPC legislation and retrofit  *  how consumer expectations around information are changing  *  and why evidence-backed communication is becoming commercially essential for agents  Alongside all of that, there’s a broader conversation around London, affordability, generational change and how societal attitudes towards renting and home ownership continue evolving. What makes this episode particularly interesting is that it never drifts into “tech for tech’s sake” territory. Sandra brings a hugely grounded perspective to the discussion, consistently bringing the conversation back to people, behaviour and communication rather than simply platforms and software. Because ultimately, this isn’t really a conversation about data alone. It’s about what happens when information becomes universally accessible. And why the future winners in property may not simply be the businesses with the best technology, but the ones most capable of building trust in a world where everyone can increasingly verify everything for themselves. Send us Fan Mail [https://www.buzzsprout.com/2466948/fan_mail/new]

Stress, Survival & the Cost of Trying to Be Everything to Everyone with Heather Foster

There are some conversations that end up becoming far more personal, reflective and emotionally honest than either person expected when the microphones first switched on. This was one of those conversations. In this episode of The Viking Chats, I sit down with Heather Foster of Relocation Agent Network for what begins as a chat about career, agency and the evolution of the industry, before unfolding into something much deeper about pressure, identity, survival and the dangerous normality of modern life. Because over the last 18 months, Heather has been fighting breast cancer. Diagnosed at just 41 years old with invasive ductal carcinoma, she has since undergone multiple rounds of chemotherapy, surgery, radiotherapy, targeted treatment and ongoing hormone therapy, all whilst continuing to work, parent, navigate family life and somehow hold onto a sense of self through the middle of it all. But what makes this conversation so powerful is that it is not simply about cancer itself. It’s about what cancer exposed. Heather speaks incredibly openly about the life she had built before her diagnosis. A life many people will instantly recognise. Working full-time, parenting, managing a home, trying to support everyone around her and carrying an ever-growing mental load that slowly became normal simply because there never seemed to be another option. Like so many high-performing people, particularly working parents, she had gradually become trapped inside a cycle of responsibility where being needed by everyone else quietly replaced taking care of herself. And then life forced everything to stop. We talk candidly about the brutal reality of chemotherapy, the emotional impact of losing her hair, the physical exhaustion that followed treatment and the strange psychological process of trying to maintain “normality” whilst simultaneously dealing with something deeply traumatic. But alongside all of that sits a much bigger conversation around stress, relationships and identity. Heather reflects on how illness forced her and her husband to completely reassess the way they operated as a couple and as parents. From learning to ask for help to rediscovering each other outside of work and family pressures, there’s an incredibly honest discussion around how easy it is for people to slowly lose themselves within modern life without even realising it’s happening. We also explore the idea that resilience is often misunderstood. That being “strong” does not necessarily mean carrying everything alone. That sometimes survival itself becomes the victory. And that difficult experiences, whilst never welcome, can still fundamentally reshape your perspective in ways that ultimately create growth, clarity and healthier boundaries moving forward. There are moments in this episode that are emotional, moments that are funny and moments that I suspect will hit uncomfortably close to home for a lot of listeners. Because, although not everyone will experience cancer, almost everyone will recognise some version of the pressure Heather describes. The endless balancing act. The feeling of being responsible for everything. The slow erosion of self underneath work, parenting, stress and expectation. And perhaps most importantly, the realisation that you cannot continue carrying all of that forever without eventually paying a price somewhere. This is ultimately a conversation about survival in every sense of the word. Not just physically, but emotionally too. And why, sometimes, the hardest thing any of us ever learns is that asking for help does not make us weak. It makes us human. Send us Fan Mail [https://www.buzzsprout.com/2466948/fan_mail/new]

“The Mountain Didn’t Break Me” - Sarka Wilde on Survival, Failure & Starting Again

When Sarka Wilde first joined me on The Viking Chats, the focus was very different. She was preparing to take on Aconcagua, the highest mountain outside of Asia, raising money for the Propertymark Trust through what would become one of the most physically and mentally demanding challenges of her life. The training was relentless, the commitment extraordinary and the purpose behind it deeply personal. Then everything changed. In this follow-up episode, Sarka returns not to talk about summiting the mountain, but about what happened when the expedition went catastrophically wrong. What unfolds is one of the most raw, honest and emotionally intelligent conversations we’ve ever had on the podcast. Sarka talks openly about developing acute pulmonary oedema high on the mountain, the terrifying moment she realised something was fundamentally wrong, and the decision that ultimately saved her life. From being airlifted off the mountain by helicopter to being moved between multiple hospitals in Argentina, she shares the reality of an experience that was physically dangerous, emotionally traumatic and psychologically far more complex than simply “failing to complete a challenge.” Because this episode isn’t really about mountaineering. It’s about identity. It’s about what happens when you spend months, sometimes years, building your life around a singular purpose and then suddenly have that purpose taken away from you. It’s about the emotional aftermath of not reaching the summit, the guilt of feeling like you’ve let people down, and the strange psychological void that can follow the collapse of something you’ve poured everything into. Sarka speaks incredibly honestly about the difficult months that followed. The exhaustion, the recovery, the self-doubt and the challenge of coming to terms with the fact that despite doing everything “right”, things still didn’t go to plan. We also explore the psychology of resilience, the danger of tying self-worth too tightly to outcomes, and why learning to be honest with yourself about failure can actually become a form of freedom. There’s a particularly powerful section around the idea that setbacks in life aren’t necessarily failures at all, but feedback — opportunities to learn, recalibrate and rebuild with greater perspective. Alongside all of that, there are also moments of real warmth and humanity throughout this conversation. Sarka reflects on the extraordinary kindness she experienced from strangers in Argentina, the support she received from friends and colleagues within the property industry, and the importance of having people around you who help you navigate difficult periods honestly rather than allowing you to disappear into your own head. And despite everything that happened, there is an incredible positive outcome sitting at the centre of this story. The expedition raised more than £25,000 for the Propertymark Trust, massively exceeding the original target and helping raise awareness for a charity that quietly supports people within the property industry through periods of hardship, crisis and personal difficulty. In many ways, this episode became something neither of us expected. It’s a conversation about survival, perspective, emotional resilience and the uncomfortable reality that sometimes doing your absolute best still doesn’t guarantee the outcome you wanted. But it’s also about what comes next. And why not reaching the summit doesn’t necessarily mean the mountain beat you. Send us Fan Mail [https://www.buzzsprout.com/2466948/fan_mail/new]