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Toot or Boot

Podcast de WRKdefined Podcast Network

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Toot or Boot brings you unfiltered conversations about work — straight from HR insiders who aren’t afraid to tell the truth. With a rotating crew of progressive HR leaders, we break down the latest news and trends to show what’s really happening and why it matters for your job. Whether you’re in HR or just trying to survive your 9-to-5, expect real talk, practical advice, and the occasional laugh to get you through the chaos of modern work. To find out more, check out tootorboot.com

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52 episodios

Portada del episodio When Disengagement Is Really Self-Protection

When Disengagement Is Really Self-Protection

Disengagement at work is often framed as an attitude problem. But what if it’s actually a nervous system response? In this episode of Toot or Boot, Stacey Nordwall sits down with HR leader and psychology-trained strategist Erica Spitale to unpack the deeper forces behind workplace disengagement, trust, and emotional safety. Together they explore why employees withdraw when environments feel unsafe, how organizations misunderstand emotions at work, and why productivity without humanity simply doesn’t last. The conversation digs into the complex reality of modern work: employees bringing global crises, economic stress, and personal uncertainty into the workplace while organizations attempt to maintain focus and output. Erica offers a powerful reframing — emotions are not distractions; they are data. Stacey and Erica also examine the fragile nature of trust at work, how it forms (and collapses), and why trust is less about individuals and more about the conditions organizations create. Along the way they tackle the tension between emotional expression and professional boundaries, the myth of “political neutrality” at work, and the structural forces behind disengagement. If you’ve ever wondered why employees seem checked out, why trust at work feels fragile, or how leaders can build healthier workplaces without sacrificing accountability, this conversation offers a more human framework for understanding what’s really happening. Key Takeaways 1. Workplace disengagement is often a nervous system response to perceived threat, not laziness or apathy. 2. Employees disengage when they lack psychological safety, belonging, or trust in their environment. 3. Emotions at work are data points, revealing what matters and where friction exists. 4. Organizations frequently mislabel disengagement as an individual attitude problem instead of a systemic issue. 5. Productivity without acknowledging human needs cannot be sustained long-term. 6. Trust in the workplace is not an individual trait — it is an environmental outcome created by conditions. 7. Employees maintain multiple relationships at work: with their job, their team, and the organization. 8. Leaders must balance clear expectations with humane assumptions. 9. Emotional expression and professional boundaries can coexist — workplaces need space for both engagement and retreat. 10. During economic uncertainty, organizations should invest in developing existing employees rather than relying solely on hiring. Timestamps 00:00 – Why the modern workplace feels emotionally heavy 02:00 – The idea of disengagement as a nervous system response 05:00 – Why disengagement is often misdiagnosed as an attitude problem 08:30 – Making space for emotions while maintaining workplace boundaries 12:00 – Why emotions at work provide valuable organizational data 17:00 – The myth of political neutrality in workplaces 19:00 – Why sustainable productivity requires humanity 23:00 – The complicated role of trust in organizations 28:00 – Trust as an environmental condition, not a personality trait 33:00 – AI hype, responsible leadership, and investing in existing employees

10 de mar de 2026 - 42 min
Portada del episodio The ongoing trouble with SHRM

The ongoing trouble with SHRM

For decades, SHRM has been the institution shaping HR standards, HR certifications, and workplace policy. But as political tensions rise, protections erode, and credibility questions grow louder, HR leaders are asking a new question: What happens when the largest HR organization in the world stops representing workers — and starts representing itself? In this packed, no-nonsense episode of Toot or Boot originally recorded in November 2024, Stacey Nordwall sits down with Sarika Lamont [https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarikal/], Tracie Sponenberg [https://www.linkedin.com/in/traciesponenberg/], and Morgan Williams [https://www.linkedin.com/in/morganbwilliams/] to unpack the long, complicated history of SHRM’s decisions and the ripple effects those choices have had on the HR profession, marginalized employees, and federal policy. The group traces SHRM’s evolution from “the only place HR could go” to an entity criticized for political alliances, removing equity from DEI, paywalling pandemic resources, and most recently, found responsible for discriminating and retaliating against a former employee. They also dive into something that matters even more: the rise of people-first HR communities that filled the vacuum when SHRM didn’t — and what HR practitioners can rely on now. Whether you’re SHRM-certified, SHRM-skeptical, or SHRM-conflicted, this conversation gives you the context you need to understand what’s at stake for HR, workers, and the future of workplace policy. Key takeaways 1. SHRM’s decisions shape HR policy, employment law, and workplace norms worldwide. 2. The organization’s political alignment has shifted sharply — and visibly — in recent years. 3. SHRM paywalled critical COVID resources at the height of crisis. 4. Removing the “E” from DEI sent a damaging message to marginalized workers. 5. Johnny Taylor’s public stances contradict SHRM’s stated neutrality. 6. SHRM’s lobbying often benefits employers, not employees or practitioners. 7. The ongoing discrimination lawsuit highlights internal cultural issues. 8. HR’s community-driven response during COVID created better models for learning and support. 9. Alternatives — Peak HR, Hacking HR, Safe Space, Troop HR, and others — now offer richer, people-centered resources. 10. HR leaders must stay informed because SHRM’s policy influence impacts workers, equity, and the future of the profession. Timestamps * 02:00 — How each guest’s SHRM journey shaped their perspective * 07:00 — The SHRM–HRCI split and political entanglements * 12:00 — SHRM’s silence after George Floyd and LGBTQ+ cases * 16:00 — The COVID paywall and the turning point in trust * 20:00 — Johnny Taylor’s political positioning and the Labor Secretary shortlist * 25:00 — Why SHRM’s power matters for HR and workers * 33:00 — The danger of “civility” replacing equity * 40:00 — How HR community spaces filled the gap * 50:00 — Alternatives to SHRM and where HR is going next SHRM controversy, HR policy, Johnny Taylor, DEI equity removed, SHRM lawsuit, HR community, workplace politics, HR certification, lobbying impact, alternatives to SHRM

16 de dic de 2025 - 50 min
Portada del episodio The chaos inside modern hiring systems

The chaos inside modern hiring systems

Hiring has never felt more confusing — for candidates, recruiters, or the HR teams stuck in the middle. Between ATS myths, bad advice on TikTok, the Mobley v. Workday lawsuit, and a flood of AI-powered recruiting tools no one fully understands, it’s no surprise people are frustrated and misinformed. In this episode of Toot or Boot, Stacey Nordwall is joined by talent experts Dani Herrera [https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielagherrera/] and T. Tara Turk-Haynes [https://www.linkedin.com/in/ttaraturkhaynes/] to pull back the curtain on what actually happens behind the scenes of recruiting. They break down common ATS misconceptions, explain how knockout questions really work, unpack the rise of grifters targeting desperate job seekers, and explore the messy overlap between automation and AI. The trio also digs into the Mobley lawsuit: what triggers instant rejections, when discrimination comes from the humans (not the software), how automation gets misread as AI, and why companies should be terrified of buying shiny tools without asking hard questions about data, bias, legality, and accountability. If you’ve ever wondered why you got rejected in 30 seconds, who really makes hiring decisions, or why every “ATS-proof résumé” online is a scam, this episode gives you the truth — with humor, receipts, and the kind of grounded reality only seasoned recruiters can offer. Key Takeaways 1. Recruiters are not the final decision makers — hiring managers are. 2. ATS systems don’t “reject” people; knockout questions and human setup errors do. 3. Automation ≠ AI — and most instant rejections are automation, not algorithms. 4. Keywords help recruiters search, but keyword stuffing is unnecessary and harmful. 5. Résumé templates claiming to be “ATS-compliant” are pure grift. 6. Many interviewers receive no training, which derails fair hiring. 7. Workday and other large systems are only as ethical as the people who configure them. 8. The Mobley lawsuit highlights systemic, not just AI-driven, discrimination risks. 9. HR teams must ask vendors hard questions about data sources, audits, and bias. 10. Candidates should be wary of bad online advice and seek guidance from real recruiters. Timestamps * 00:00 — Why recruiting feels like a black box * 02:00 — What recruiters actually control (and don’t) * 07:00 — How ATSs really work behind the scenes * 14:00 — The truth about keyword myths and “résumé hacks” * 20:00 — How knock-out questions trigger instant rejections * 23:00 — Grifters preying on job seekers with false promises * 28:00 — Workday as ATS and HRIS — why that matters * 33:00 — The deeper problem behind Mobley v. Workday * 47:00 — When AI amplifies human bias instead of preventing it * 55:00 — The questions HR must ask AI vendors now

9 de dic de 2025 - 1 h 9 min
Portada del episodio The High Cost of Being “Nice” at Work

The High Cost of Being “Nice” at Work

We’ve been taught that “nice” is the goal at work — be pleasant, be agreeable, don’t rock the boat. But what if niceness is actually keeping us stuck, silencing truth-tellers, and protecting the status quo? In this episode of Toot or Boot, Stacey Nordwall sits down with author and communications strategist Amira Barger [https://www.linkedin.com/in/amirabarger/] to unpack her new book The Price of Nice — a fierce, funny, deeply human guide to understanding how performative niceness, forced neutrality, and “civility” are used to silence real people and reinforce harmful systems. They explore why truth-telling gets punished, how identity and politics always enter the workplace, why leaders cling to neutrality, and what “nerve” really looks like in practice. If you’ve ever swallowed your truth to keep the peace — this episode will give you language, tools, and permission to show up differently and to challenge harm without self-abandoning. Key Takeaways 1. “Niceness” often demands self-abandonment in service of others’ comfort. 2. Kindness and niceness are not the same — kindness requires honesty. 3. Neutrality is not neutral; it protects power, not people. 4. Identity, politics, and lived experience always walk into work with us. 5. Civility can be weaponized to silence truth-tellers and maintain the status quo. 6. The “nerve vs. nice” continuum explains how we’re socialized to stay small. 7. Micro-actions of courage matter as much as big acts of resistance. 8. Leaders need both advocacy and inquiry to create real change. 9. Perfectly assertive communication helps challenge harm without blowing things up. 10. DEI work still happens in micro-spheres — influence what you can control. Timestamps * 00:00 — Welcome + why Amira’s work resonates * 01:19 — Defining “the price of nice” * 03:17 — The story that exposed the harm of niceness * 06:41 — Nice vs. nerve: the continuum * 10:22 — Kids, truth-telling, and naming what adults ignore * 12:03 — Why politics and identity cannot be separated from work * 15:42 — The myth of neutrality — and who it protects * 20:52 — The weaponization of civility and tone policing * 25:19 — Advocacy + inquiry: a better leadership model * 30:03 — The Four W Model: navigating hard moments with clarity * 36:48 — Micro-actions as everyday nerve * 40:31 — The “relay” model of shared resistance Top Keywords niceness vs kindness, workplace neutrality, nerve vs nice, psychological safety, performative civility, identity at work, DEI backlash, assertive communication, leadership inquiry tools, speaking up at work

2 de dic de 2025 - 46 min
Portada del episodio What authenticity at work really means

What authenticity at work really means

Work shouldn’t be the worst part of your week — but for too many people, it still is. In this episode of Toot or Boot, Stacey Nordwall talks with Madison Butler [https://www.linkedin.com/in/bluehairedunicorn/] — author of Let Them See You — about what it really means to show up as yourself at work, even when systems weren’t built for you. Together, they unpack authenticity, burnout, boundaries, and what happens when companies say they value “culture fit” but really mean “sameness.” Madison shares the story that sparked her journey toward radical authenticity — from code-switching and corporate conformity to refusing to straighten her hair for anyone again — and how that moment changed everything. She and Stacey get candid about navigating fear-based leadership, detaching self-worth from productivity, and finding joy when the world (and the workplace) keeps serving chaos. It’s real talk about identity, healing, and humanity at work — the messy, necessary kind that actually makes things better. Key Takeaways: 1. Authenticity isn’t about performance — it’s about liberation. 2. “Culture fit” is just code for exclusion; hire for value add. 3. Fear-based leadership thrives because it protects power, not people. 4. You can’t heal burnout inside the system that caused it. 5. Detaching your worth from work is an act of resistance. 6. Boundaries are a form of self-preservation, not rebellion. 7. Leaders set the tone — your behavior teaches your team what’s safe. 8. Joy at work isn’t frivolous; it’s fuel for survival. 9. Therapy isn’t a luxury — it’s a leadership skill. 10. Creating space for real humans makes better work, period. Timestamps: * 00:00 — Why work shouldn’t send you to therapy * 02:00 — How Madison learned to show up as herself * 06:00 — The moment she stopped code-switching at work * 10:00 — The myth of “authenticity” on social media * 15:00 — Burnout, dopamine, and chasing the next thing * 20:00 — Fear-based leadership and caring less (on purpose) * 23:00 — Detaching identity from job titles * 28:00 — Culture fit vs. value add: the truth * 33:00 — Likability bias and who gets punished for honesty * 36:00 — Leading with joy when everything’s on fire Top Keywords: authenticity at work, burnout recovery, fear-based leadership, work identity, culture fit vs value add, psychological safety, trauma-informed leadership, HR and mental health, joy at work, boundaries and burnout

25 de nov de 2025 - 51 min
Soy muy de podcasts. Mientras hago la cama, mientras recojo la casa, mientras trabajo… Y en Podimo encuentro podcast que me encantan. De emprendimiento, de salid, de humor… De lo que quiera! Estoy encantada 👍
Soy muy de podcasts. Mientras hago la cama, mientras recojo la casa, mientras trabajo… Y en Podimo encuentro podcast que me encantan. De emprendimiento, de salid, de humor… De lo que quiera! Estoy encantada 👍
MI TOC es feliz, que maravilla. Ordenador, limpio, sugerencias de categorías nuevas a explorar!!!
Me suscribi con los 14 días de prueba para escuchar el Podcast de Misterios Cotidianos, pero al final me quedo mas tiempo porque hacia tiempo que no me reía tanto. Tiene Podcast muy buenos y la aplicación funciona bien.
App ligera, eficiente, encuentras rápido tus podcast favoritos. Diseño sencillo y bonito. me gustó.
contenidos frescos e inteligentes
La App va francamente bien y el precio me parece muy justo para pagar a gente que nos da horas y horas de contenido. Espero poder seguir usándola asiduamente.

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