By-The-Bywater: A Tolkien Podcast

61. What Is It with Straight Men and Red Hair?

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Ned’s choice of topic: Terry Brooks’s debut novel The Sword of Shannara. Released in 1977 after the author had been working on it for almost a decade, The Sword of Shannara became a massive publishing success for its then-new imprint Del Rey Books, helping to establish the viability of fantasy literature as a steady and profitable part of the book business as a whole, as well as starting Brooks’s continuing writing career with a bang. At the same time, more than a few voices said in response to that success and the book itself that it was pretty clearly using The Lord of the Rings as a model, its own author having now been conveniently dead for a few years at the time of publication. This, as it happens, is a massive understatement – and more to the point it is an absolutely awful book, the success of which seen through the eyes of nearly fifty years later is almost impossible to imagine given both the expansion of the field in general and the fact that Tolkien is no longer solely the lodestone for young writers to look towards. What makes Brooks’s work so remarkably un-Tolkien-like despite taking on many of its trappings, and are those trappings used well to start with? How does Brooks’s desire to create a rollicking adventure story/page-turner play out in terms of actual story dynamics, character development and other rather important things a good book should have? How do the key themes of Tolkien in general not apply – or rather, get heavily misapplied or transformed – in Brooks’s vision of a post-apocalyptic fantasy world? And do Jared and Oriana still wish Ned ill fortune for having made them read this? (Audibly so, yes.) Show Notes. Jared’s doodle [https://bsky.app/profile/vandroidhelsing.bsky.social/post/3kohua4hajl2a]. If only the book were this exciting. Five years indeed! If you want the full story of how we all got started, as mentioned, Ned talks about that in the introduction to our live episode [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6DK27zoiJE] aka Episode 50 from last year. The big news about The Collected Poems of J.R.R. Tolkien [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/The_Collected_Poems_of_J.R.R._Tolkien], as reported on [https://wayneandchristina.wordpress.com/2024/03/12/tolkiens-collected-poems/] by Wayne Hammond and Christina Scull, its editors. The not-so-big, in fact really annoying, news [https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2024/03/04/117650-season-3-of-the-rings-of-power-already-in-development/] about The Rings of Power Season 3 already being worked on. Lovely. Really. The Sword of Shannara [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sword_of_Shannara]! It’s a book! Sure is a book! Dan Sinykin’s 2023 Slate article “The Man Who Invented Fantasy [https://slate.com/culture/2023/10/lester-del-rey-invention-fantasy-book-publishing.html],” which details Lester Del Rey’s career and role in bringing Brooks to wider attention as part of his overall plans for Del Rey with his wife Judy-Lynn. So now you know who to blame. The Brothers Hildebrandt [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothers_Hildebrandt] being recruited as the illustrators was a good move from a publishing point of view, especially then. Gene Wolfe’s defense of Brooks is in his essay “The Best Introduction to the Mountains [https://webarchive.loc.gov/all/20040113063643/http%3A//home.clara.net/andywrobertson/wolfemountains.html].” Our Dennis McKiernan/Silver Call duology episode [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/13]. Our episode on the orcs [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/23]. Gnomes they are not. Brooks’s TED talk “Why I Write About Elves [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fExrstN8TEg]”. You want to watch The Shannara Chronicles [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shannara_Chronicles]? Enjoy. Without us. Support By-The-Bywater (and our network) on Patreon [https://patreon.com/megaphonic], and you can hang out with us in a friendly Discord.

60. Tolkien Dropping Bars.

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Jared’s choice of topic: Beowulf. The famed Old English poem, the longest extant poetic work in general preserved in that language, almost accidentally survived over the years until it became more widely recognized in the 1700s, including surviving a fire. It has since become a cornerstone of studies of English literature, telling the story of a heroic Geat warrior who defeats two monstrous presences on a visit to an afflicted Danish kingdom, and who in later years as an aging king slays a dragon at the cost of his life and, it is strongly implied, his kingdom’s. Tolkien knew the work thoroughly and regularly taught it in his academic career, leading to both a prose translation and various notes and commentaries that Christopher Tolkien presented and edited for a 2015 publication. But besides the notable connections that can be made between the poem and elements of his own legendarium, Tolkien has a further place in Beowulf scholarship thanks to his most famed academic work, the 1936 lecture “Beowulf: The Monsters and The Critics,” which single-handedly reframed the poem from being primarily seen as a historical document to being considered as a remarkable work of imagination. What are some of the key differences between Beowulf’s world and ethos and Tolkien’s own reworking of it into his legendarium, in terms of character, society and more? What points does Tolkien bring up in his lecture that provides a deeper insight into how he was not only arguing for the Beowulf poet – whoever it might be – but also placing his own work into that lineage? How do the portrayals of the various monsters Beowulf faces differ, and what in particular makes Grendel’s mother such a fascinating character? And how many moments per episode are points raised and then suddenly realized to be maybe not accurate? (Sorry about that.) Show Notes. Jared’s doodle [https://bsky.app/profile/vandroidhelsing.bsky.social/post/3kmbs6szeb62u]. Gotta be careful with dragons. Ooooooh boy, the angst this Fellowship of Fans post [https://twitter.com/FellowshipFans/status/1760317578382090449] unleashed in some corners [https://thatparkplace.com/prime-video-reportedly-destroying-the-lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-season-2-with-terrible-false-leaks-that-confirm-destruction-of-j-r-r-tolkiens-legendarium/] when it came to Rings of Power rumors. (On a side note, RoP’s Morfydd Clark is in the new two part Agatha Christie Murder is Easy [https://www.britbox.com/us/show/Agatha_Christies_Murder_is_Easy_108115] adaptation on Britbox and is unsurprisingly really good!) The whole Matthew Weiner spoiler-war thing re Mad Men was a thing. Was it ever a thing. Here’s a sample [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/matthew-weiners-mad-men-spoiler-434598/]. Beowulf [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beowulf]! You might have heard of it. Plenty of translations freely available [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Beowulf], and of course there’s Seamus Heaney [https://wwnorton.com/books/9780393320978] and Maria Dahvana Headley [https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374110031/beowulfanewtranslation] and etc. And yes there’s Tolkien’s [https://www.harpercollins.com/products/beowulf-jrr-tolkienchristopher-tolkien?variant=39934907383842] too. “HWAET! [https://www.medievalists.net/2022/07/what-is-hwaet/]” (Tolkien allegedly really loved to get his students’ attention by delivering this full on.) If you haven’t read “Beowulf: The Monsters and the Critics [https://jenniferjsnow.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/11790039-jrr-tolkien-beowulf-the-monsters-and-the-critics.pdf],” we really do encourage this. (And picking up the full essay anthology too [https://harpercollins.co.uk/products/the-monsters-and-the-critics-j-r-r-tolkien?variant=32696019451982], key pieces like “A Secret Vice” and “On Fairy-Stories” are included among others.) Kennings [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenning] are very cool. (But please avoid ‘whale road.’) Imagining Tolkien delivering this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGKNaF0O55w] to the other Beowulf critics is something wild to think about. There’s a wide variety of pieces about the women of Beowulf out there; here’s one [https://literaturessays.wordpress.com/2013/03/23/the-role-of-women-in-beowulf/] that provides a general summary and consideration about them. If you’d like to see the Nowell Codex [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nowell_Codex], head on over to the British Library [https://www.bl.uk/], physically or virtually. We’ve mentioned E. R. Eddison [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._R._Eddison] before. Definitely NOT Tolkien. The full historical background that Beowulf draws on is definitely there, though treating the poem as a history itself is not the way to go. Here’s a useful piece [https://dcc.newberry.org/?p=14483] tackling the history as such. The Geats aren’t around as such anymore, and there are reasons for that [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish%E2%80%93Geatish_wars]… It’s not directly mentioned in the episode but Tolkien did write and lecture about one of the ‘side’ stories in Beowulf, with the results published in the book Finn and Hengest [https://www.harperreach.com/products/finn-and-hengest-j-r-r-tolkien-9780261103559/]. Did we mention we’re not impressed with Silicon Valley’s take on Tolkien [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/59]? Grendel’s mother [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grendel%27s_mother] is, no question, awesome. Kenneth Grahame [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Grahame]’s “The Reluctant Dragon [https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/21588]” – definitely not Smaug. “Sellic Spell [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Sellic_Spell]” really is interesting, and may be the most notable part of the volume it’s published in. Michael Crichton’s Eaters of the Dead [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eaters_of_the_Dead]! (But avoid The 13th Warrior [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_13th_Warrior].) A last little bonus: didn’t bring it up in the episode but Ned remembered seeing Robert Macneil’s 1986 documentary series on PBS The Story of English back when it first ran, and the second episode, “The Mother Tongue,” has a brief bit discussing Beowulf [https://youtu.be/DuyEXotPRxM?si=IuEhSvI51XB2wZ-s&t=76] and how it might have been performed as a song, as well as a separate section [https://youtu.be/FNZVSbQcpCI?si=sWB9fUcuY90e6wiv&t=147] on the impact of the Viking invasions on English as a language led by noted Tolkien scholar and academic descendant Tom Shippey. Support By-The-Bywater (and our network) on Patreon [https://patreon.com/megaphonic], and you can hang out with us in a friendly Discord.

58. What an Absolute Nightmare This Man Would Have Been to Work With.

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Ned’s choice of topic: The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien. Following the publication of his official biography of Tolkien, Humphrey Carpenter worked with Christopher Tolkien to edit and present a selection of Tolkien’s letters across the decades, originally appearing in 1981. Containing both a large swathe of personal detail about his life as an aspiring academic and young father, then an established professor and finally an increasingly popular author, it also presented a large amount of background information on Middle-earth via his exchanges with publishers, writers and readers, including some long letters that have remained touchstones of information on his creative process since. In late 2023, a new edition was published, which featured the entirety of the original selection that Carpenter and Christopher had created but had to trim down for initial publication, revealing various new facets of interest in particular about his own personal beliefs and philosophies across time. What areas of Tolkien’s life remain relatively undiscussed or absent from the presented letters, and what can we deduce from the estate’s choices to possibly not let that material be shared out? How do the ‘new’ letters in particular fill out our understanding of Tolkien’s Catholic beliefs, especially in the context of mass and creative culture? Is there something to be said in how Tolkien may have changed or otherwise introduced more nuance into some of his more sweeping statements about women in his private correspondence as he aged, especially in contrast to his fellow Inklings? And finally, who wouldn’t want to be the fly on the wall for that conversation between Tolkien, Robert Graves and Ava Gardner? Show Notes. Jared’s doodle [https://bsky.app/profile/vandroidhelsing.bsky.social/post/3ki2jyxyjx32r]. Something about a lovely start to a letter… Remember, join the Megaphonic Patreon [https://www.patreon.com/megaphonic]! Listen to us and everyone else talk about the movie musical Scrooge [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrooge_(1970_film)]! (Spoiler: we were not pleased.) Did we mention preordering Jared’s book? Let’s mention it again [https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250884831/thewestpassage]. Here’s preorder info [https://www.seetickets.com/event/twenty-first-century-tolkien/british-library/2838039] for that British Library talk on Twenty First Century Tolkien. Looks like it could be good! In which writing an unauthorized sequel to The Lord of the Rings further goes askew [https://wapo.st/3tEgm9y]. Demetrious Polychron really, really does try. But. Our Dennis McKiernan/Silver Call duology episode [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/13]. It really is better in comparison! Ah, cotillions [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotillion]. Look, you want them, have them, but maybe not around the Shire? AO3 [https://archiveofourown.org/]…waits. The letters! (New edition that is!) [https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-letters-of-jrr-tolkien-jrr-tolkien?variant=41069561872418] It is a very, very thick book. Letter 131 [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Letter_131] is a doozy! These days it’s most often seen appended to the more recent edition of The Silmarillion. That withdrawn article on Edith Bratt [https://scholar.valpo.edu/journaloftolkienresearch/vol8/iss1/9/], as much as remains in the journal listing. Who knows? Zero inbox [https://todoist.com/inspiration/inbox-zero], the blessed and unachievable state. Worth briefly noting The Tolkien Family Album [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/The_Tolkien_Family_Album], written and presented by John (the younger) and Priscilla Tolkien. Vatican II [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Vatican_Council]’s impact is still very much with us… The Power Broker [https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/24312/the-power-broker-by-robert-a-caro/] once again. (Consider our episode on evil [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/38].) Yeahhhhhh the Spanish Civil War [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Civil_War]. Not pretty at all. Tolkien and anarchism [https://www.theculturecrush.com/feature/tolkien-the-anarchist], there’s a lot of talk about that out there. (Tolkien balancing out anarchism and monarchism? Somehow he did it…) As for the Shire as society and what it does or doesn’t have, consider our episode [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/35] (and the Gollum one [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/47] with the murder mystery!) The Song of Bernadette [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_of_Bernadette_(film)]! It really hit Tolkien hard, this film. (Vincent Price in fact played “Vital Dutour, Imperial Prosecutor” but he would have been a great Mary.) And hey if you ever want to visit Lourdes [https://www.lourdes-france.org/en/]… Milton and Tolkien would have been at total odds in terms of religion but they absolutely agreed on the joy of sex [https://poets.org/poem/paradise-lost-book-iv-argument]. (Do a search for the line “This said unanimous, and other rites” and read further.) Our episode [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/4] on Aldarion and Erendis. Still a remarkable story. Gloria Steinem [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Steinem] as a Tolkien correspondent, that’s a vision. C.S Lewis and women…well THAT’S a subject [https://medium.com/the-establishment/the-lion-the-bitch-and-the-wardrobe-c-s-lewis-complex-views-on-women-607dcff314f3]. The 1955 radio version of The Lord of the Rings [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings_(1955_radio_series)] is lost as noted but as the Wikipedia entry notes, the script itself survives at least. As for the 1968 radio Hobbit adaptation [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hobbit_(radio_series)], indeed curious that there’s nothing from Tolkien about it… Robert Graves [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Graves]! Was he a snack in his youth, Sigurd-like? Hey, you be the judge [https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:720/format:webp/1*7x4EKF--uskJCa4EwKxVzQ.jpeg]. Ava Gardner [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ava_Gardner]! Pretty awesome, really. (And she did live in the UK for the last decades of her life so why not attend an Oxford lecture?) One of John Scalzi’s various posts [https://twitter.com/scalzi/status/1641184213926834179] talking about the idea of ‘convention famous.’ Makes total sense! Again, consider supporting our network, Megaphonic [https://patreon.com/megaphonic], to help us make the show, and to join us on a friendly little Discord! Thank you if you do.

57. There’s No Rule That Says a Girl Can’t Kill the Witch-king!

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss their collective choice of topic: Peter Jackson’s version of The Return of the King. It’s been twenty years since the conclusion of Jackson’s three-film effort to adapt the entire Lord of the Rings was released, and it was easily the biggest profile release of the series, coming in with massive interest and attention, setting a variety of box office records in the process along with gaining widespread critical acclaim. It all resulted in a series of worldwide film awards and honors culminating with a famed clean sweep of Oscar wins including best picture, resulting in a tie with Titanic and Ben-Hur with eleven Oscars total but also the only one of those three films to literally win every category it was nominated for, a combined record that still stands. The film’s general impact and that of the series as a whole is at this point undeniable, but how it holds up in a look back, caught somewhat between Fellowship’s own unquestionable triumph and Two Towers’s more stop-and-go successes, warrants its own discussion. What are the many changes made to the tangled relationship between Frodo, Sam and Gollum, and how does that play out as a result for both the film and the wider themes? How does the use of practical models and actual landscapes feed into the feeling of how the film both landed in the moment and held up upon later rewatching, even while it was also the biggest demonstration yet of the possibilities for CGI with massive military clashes and the like? Is it possible to actually lose count of just how many remarkable moments on a grand scale exist throughout the film, even as there are various “well, but…” caveats and questions to raise along the way? How has the whole series of film changed both the perceptions of Tolkien and the film industry in general? And how many endings are there, after all? (Surprise! It never ended, it’s running somewhere in a theater right now, maybe.) Show Notes. Jared’s doodle [https://bsky.app/profile/vandroidhelsing.bsky.social/post/3kfldmv5pzu22]. And that’s another epic trilogy down. (The earlier entries here [https://twitter.com/vandroidhelsing/status/1462612918566932485] and here [https://twitter.com/vandroidhelsing/status/1598739029276897280].) Hurrah for the SAG-AFTRA strike ending [https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-67364587] and better (not perfect!) terms won. Our episode on evil [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/38]. Evil! TheOneRing.net report [https://www.theonering.net/torwp/2023/10/27/117090-tolkien-pub-eagle-child-to-be-resurrected-by-oracle-tech-titan-larry-ellison/] on the return of the Eagle & Child pub.  Jason Horowitz’s New York Times story [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/17/world/europe/italy-tolkien-exhibition-meloni.html] about that Italian Tolkien exhibition encouraged by Italy’s favorite fascists. Sorry, did we say the quiet part out loud? (In the Guardian [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/03/the-lord-of-the-rings-italy-giorgia-meloni-tolkien], Jamie Mackey with more context.) Our episodes on Peter Jackson’s The Fellowship of the Ring [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/33] and The Two Towers [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/45], with lots of notes about the series as a whole so we won’t repeat everything here… The sole trailer [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5X-hFf6Bwo] for The Return of the King. But that’s all they needed. Trilogy Tuesday [http://archives.theonering.net/features/newsroom/files/102003_trilogytuesday_aftermath.html]! It was a crazy time and it was great. Here’s a photo of the all-day pass [https://www.flickr.com/photos/57949901@N00/3279646320/] given out, and here’s an example of that film frame memento [https://www.reddit.com/r/lotr/comments/bu5q2h/trilogy_tuesday_2003_sideshow_gift_from_new_line/] given out as well.  The opening scene [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxN2Mewamj0&pp=ygUgcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIG9wZW5pbmcgc2NlbmU%3D] is really something, no lie. Friendly little worm there. The screenwriting guru Ned mentions is Robert McKee [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_McKee] – per Brian Sibley’s Peter Jackson biography [https://www.amazon.com/Peter-Jackson-Film-makers-Brian-Sibley/dp/0007440723], McKee had come to Wellington, New Zealand to give one of his lectures in 1988, and the New Zealand Film Commission invited Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh and future contributing screenwriter for The Two Towers Stephen Sinclair to it and they all apparently took it very much to heart. So a long term impact but even so. The opening exchange [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW9z3Mk3Kh4] between Sam, Frodo and Gollum. Really are some beautifully shot moments in this sequence. Oh did Christopher Lee have things to say [https://collider.com/lord-of-the-rings-return-of-the-king-christopher-lee-saruman-death/] in the run-up to the theatrical release. Our episode on the Rankin-Bass Return of the King [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/49]. It is NOT very good. Yeah yeah the Arwen vision [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5y99rpk8to&pp=ygUjcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGFyd2VuIGFuZCBlbHJvbmQ%3D] and Arwen dying [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olGboZY1MWk&pp=ygUjcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGFyd2VuIGFuZCBlbHJvbmQ%3D] and…well whatever. But boy that introduction to Minas Tirith [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHKmBMq7FMo&pp=ygUvcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGludHJvZHVjdGlvbiB0byBtaW5hcyB0aXJpdGg%3D]. THAT’S how to make an entrance. And the beacons sequence [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIjoXv6Y-0&pp=ygUacmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGJlY2FvbnM%3D], wow, still. Time zone issues aside. For examples of the Gondor theme earlier on in the series, skip ahead to about a minute into this clip [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k3ABfmCr2I&ab_channel=EgalmothOfGondolin01]. Ride the Empire Builder [https://www.amtrak.com/empire-builder-train]! If you like. Hurrah for John Noble [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Noble] (and hurrah for Fringe [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fringe_(TV_series)]). Skip ahead three minutes [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX_AMRM_UsI&ab_channel=CihatYILDIZ] for “The rule of Gondor is MINE!” moment, and the parting between Denethor and Faramir [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5F2kRZabpg&pp=ygUjcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGRlbmV0aG9yIGZhcmFtaXI%3D], phew. Minas Morgul [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enbLZaUyr3s], a triumph of John Howe design, glowing and clamped. (The skybeam is the skybeam but the sonic buildup rules.) The Holdo maneuver [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiVdQlxyUEg&pp=ygUZbGFzdCBqZWRpIGhvbGRvIG1hbmV1dmVyIA%3D%3D] (it really was great, like the film itself) When Theoden and Eowyn part at Dunharrow [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZuA9Wjd960&pp=ygUkcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIHRoZW9kZW4gYW5kIGVvd3lu], boy that’ll ruin ya. That’s two good actors very much in the moment. When Aragorn and Eowyn part at Dunharrow [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXUxDp_pI-g&pp=ygUkcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGFyYWdvcm4gYW5kIGVvd3lu], it is very…shippy. “...and Rohan will answer!” [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDBPmEAheCY&pp=ygUncmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGdvbmRvciBjYWxscyBmb3IgYWlk] Perfect. “The stars are veiled.” [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4YU8899sIQ] Are they, Legolas? Oh you know the Shelob scene [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpLpkfFFsnI]. You know.  “The Edge of Night” sequence [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3d2KNgjXCk] is unnerving, beautiful and horribly sad. The Nazgul as the angels of death [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ElxL76ZBg&pp=ygUgcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIG5hemd1bCBhdHRhY2s%3D], in essence. However petty. Grond [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9-Jx-DjDaU&pp=ygUYcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGdyb25k]! It is great design for sure, plus armored trolls. Gothmog isn’t bothered with your petty trebuchets [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bFTw95pJp8&pp=ygUkcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIHRyZWJ1Y2hldCBnb3RobW9n]. The Ride of the Rohirrim [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pis3veqKl8k&pp=ygUncmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIHJpZGUgb2YgdGhlIHJvaGlycmlt]. No notes. But here come the mumakil [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuJ1fGAxMD0&pp=ygUacmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIG11bWFraWw%3D]… “I am no man!” [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ_-rmuPZC4&pp=ygUjcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGVvd3luIHdpdGNoIGtpbmc%3D] Yeah, it rules. Air Bud [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jvf0WWxrYRM&pp=ygURYWlyIGJ1ZCBydWxlcyBkb2c%3D], the lingua franca of us all. That crazy Witch-king mace [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAO4t8672hc&pp=ygUzcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGJlaGluZCB0aGUgc2NlbmVzIHdpdGNoa2luZyBtYWNl]. Gotta love it. And indeed skip ahead to the end of the clip [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYEvmnTghPk&pp=ygUlcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGFyYWdvcm4gbXVtYWsgZGVhZA%3D%3D] for that mumak takedown by the scrubbing bubbles. Plus Tracy Jordan with the wisdom [https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c3688388-2be6-46b4-8cd4-d00b3694a06d].  It still only counts as one [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9gQ-gqVWp4&pp=ygUgcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGxlZ29sYXMgbXVtYWs%3D], we guess. Sam finds Frodo in Cirith Ungol [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMdSAGOXYZc&pp=ygUpcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGZyb2RvIHNhbSBjaXJpdGggdW5nb2w%3D] – it’s a good moment! “On this good earth!” [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjZY2EfR-f8&pp=ygUccmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIHN0YW5kIG1lbg%3D%3D] (Well, maybe not GREAT earth.) “I can carry you!” [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKIgv8AhffA&pp=ygUfcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIHNhdXJvbiBmcm9kbw%3D%3D] A beautiful sequence, no doubt. The Crack of Doom [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c24-0Amwyik&pp=ygUdcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIG1vdW50IGRvb20%3D]. Great acting moments, wonderful moment for Gollum, but not over the cliff again… And yeah when Mount Doom completely explodes [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyzE9thQIPo&pp=ygUmcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIG1vdW50IGRvb20gZXhwbG9kZXM%3D]… Will they? Won’t they? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOnhBKPSuWA&pp=ygUscmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGZyb2RvIHNhbSBtb3VudCBkb29tIGZhZGU%3D] A great way to do individual bows [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgtMW38vsUs&pp=ygUgcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGZyb2RvIGdhbmRhbGY%3D] via a movie. “You bow to NO one.” [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H4Q_aA4QiQ&pp=ygUkcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIHlvdSBib3cgdG8gbm8gb25l] (Cue big emotions.) A wordless toast indeed [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-za-KhzS1g&pp=ygUfcmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGdyZWVuIGRyYWdvbg%3D%3D]. And a pumpkin. (And a case of the not gays.) The Grey Havens [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTstBMkeAH8&pp=ygUecmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIHNhbSB3ZWRkaW5n] sends us off. It really is a great Turner-inspired scene. “Into the West” and the end credit portraits [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvismXx43uQ&pp=ygUocmV0dXJuIG9mIHRoZSBraW5nIGludG8gdGhlIHdlc3QgY3JlZGl0cw%3D%3D]. Great job Annie. (The young filmmaker who passed was Cameron Duncan [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameron_Duncan], to correct Ned there.) The Triplets of Belleville [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Triplets_of_Belleville] is a real treat, see it when you can. Enjoy all the Oscar wins! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ChewHkeYSk&list=PL4YJRrqFxIAmC3gL3lgdhdul6PGCdFrRW] Ah yes the Eragon movie [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eragon_(film)]. Welp. And the Chronicles of Narnia tried [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chronicles_of_Narnia_(film_series)]. But. (Good luck Greta! [https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/nov/10/greta-gerwig-narnia-netflix-cs-lewis]) This ran after the episode was recorded but the LA Times had a piece [https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2023-11-28/lord-of-the-rings-return-of-the-king-20th-oscars-new-zealand-film-industry] on the movie anniversary and its impact, especially in New Zealand itself. Our Rings of Power [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/44] and Hobbit films [https://megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/50] episodes have more about our general qualms there. Want to hear those exclusive podcasts we’re talking about on Megaphonic? Join the Patreon [https://www.patreon.com/megaphonic]! And you can check out Kitchen Party [https://www.megaphonic.fm/kitchenparty] here.

56. The Long Defeat Is Maybe Going on a Little Too Long.

Jared, Oriana and Ned discuss Oriana’s choice of topic: the Noldor. Also termed the Deep-elves and, in early versions of the legendarium, the Gnomes – thankfully changed given unavoidable associations – they were one of the three ethnicities of the Eldar in general, the first Children of Iluvatar. As compared to the serene Vanyar and the many generally lower-key societies of the Teleri, the Noldor were the ones most driven by the desire to create and to learn about the world in general, though these tendencies, exacerbated by Melkor in his Valinorean captivity and the internal family strife of their royal house, resulted in all the many deeds of fame in Middle-earth on the one hand but also their near total destruction and eventual fading away on the other. By the time of The Lord of the Rings, only small societies and remnants were left, casting an influence on the course of events but not directing them. What can we learn from the stories of the women of the Noldor in particular, not just Galadriel but other figures such as Fëanor’s mother Míriel and his wife Nerdanel or the Nargothrond princess Finduilas? What throughlines did Tolkien suggest in terms of how the Noldor both seemed the most human of the Elves as well as being driven by the same ambiguous creative impulses that haunted any number of beings in the legendarium? How does the decision to keep them from the center of the many arcs of The Lord of the Rings help shape the book into being the story that it is? And just how much of an obsessive creative type do you have to be to not only devise the writing system for your culture but to insist on sticking to a particular pronunciation because you’re still mad about how things ended up with your family? Show Notes. Jared’s doodle [https://bsky.app/profile/vandroidhelsing.bsky.social/post/3kcevlpro3m23]. Plus a bonus Galadriel-as-Carmen Miranda sketch. (The episode provides context. Sorta.) Negotiations, negotiations. The SAG-AFTRA strike has a lot of it [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/sag-aftra-negotiations-continue-weekend-studio-offer-1235636972/]. The new edition of the letters [https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-letters-of-jrr-tolkien-jrr-tolkien?variant=41069561872418] will be out in mid-November. Holly Ordway’s book Tolkien’s Faith [https://books.wordonfire.org/tolkiensfaith]. The Bandcamp Daily story [https://daily.bandcamp.com/features/jim-kirkwood-where-shadows-lie-interview] on Jim Kirkwood and his early Tolkien-inspired work. Some details on Starve Acre [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/morfydd-clark-matt-smith-starve-acre-us-uk-sale-1235632350/], the new Morfydd Clark/Mat Smith folk horror film. I mean if you WANT the Tolkien Gateway definition of the Noldor [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Noldor]… Recommending the Andy Serkis reading of The Silmarillion [https://www.amazon.com/Audible-The-Silmarillion/dp/B0C5MRBGFV] once more! Our episode on Galadriel [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/5]. Turgon [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Turgon] via Tolkien Gateway; relatedly, our episode on The Fall of Gondolin [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/30]. Gildor Inglorion [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Gildor], a truly fascinating character, as is Voronwë [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Voronw%C3%AB]. Míriel [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/M%C3%ADriel] and Nerdanel [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Nerdanel] – and they have stories that were not fully told… Glorfindel [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Glorfindel] seems like he’s about to be a major character in The Lord of the Rings…and then he’s not! We discussed the Kinslaying as part of our episode on evil [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/38]. Ah yes, The Shibboleth of Fëanor [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/The_Shibboleth_of_F%C3%ABanor]. Boy this is nuts. And great at the same time.  Then there’s the Oath of Fëanor [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Oath_of_F%C3%ABanor]. Maybe review the language first before you sign a contract. Our episodes on “Leaf by Niggle” [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/34] (as part of Tree and Leaf) and Smith of Wootton Major [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/22]. Finduilas [https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Finduilas] – again, would be good to learn more about her! See also our episode on The Children of Húrin [https://www.megaphonic.fm/bythebywater/28]. And yes The Wheel of Time [https://ew.com/tv/the-wheel-of-time-season-2-finale-showrunner-interview/] is really good. Really! Support By-The-Bywater and our network, Megaphonic, on Patreon [https://patreon.com/megaphonic], and hang out with us in a friendly Discord!