Property Management Growth with DoorGrow

DGS 338: Creative Finance Secrets for Property Managers

Today, Jason sat down with Caleb Christopher to break down how creative finance is actually being used in today's real estate market, especially for property managers looking to grow beyond traditional deals. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull and Caleb Christopher discuss strategies like subject-to deals, the due on sale clause, wraparound mortgages, and other creative transaction structures, along with how property managers can use these tools to acquire more doors, help investors expand their portfolios, and even build their own. You'll Learn [00:09] Introduction to Creative Finance in Real Estate [01:01] Caleb Christopher's Entrepreneurial Journey [04:39] Understanding Subject To Deals [10:10] Opportunities for Property Management Business Owners [11:45] Navigating Legal Counsel in Creative Finance [14:17] Understanding Wraparound Mortgages [19:45] Creative Financing Structures [22:27] The Role of Creative Transaction Consulting [27:06] Building Relationships in Property Management Quotables "If you have a business and you don't know what to do with those opportunities, other people do, and you can get paid a referral fee." "The due on sale clause is always going to be a stone hanging over your head. You can't get rid of it." "Your low-interest mortgage is an asset I'm willing to buy." Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/courses/mastermind] DoorGrow Academy [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/] DoorGrow on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1mGYT2Sw0LOe32hO_QdNg/featured] DoorGrowClub [https://doorgrow.com/] DoorGrowLive [https://doorgrowlive.com/] Transcript Jason Hull (00:01) Five, four, three, two, one. All right, welcome everybody. I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. All right, so in today's episode, I'm hanging out here with Caleb Christopher. Welcome, Caleb. And we're gonna be chatting about creative finance and what it really looks like in today's real estate market. And Caleb's gonna share practical insights from his time in the industry, breaking down strategies like Sub 2, Subject 2 Deals. Caleb Christopher (00:46) All right, thank you. Jason Hull (01:01) the due on sale clause, wrap around mortgages and other creative transaction structures to give a helpful real world perspective for anyone looking to get started in creative finance. for property managers, know creative finance is how you help your investors get into more units and they all want to manage more units. So cool. Welcome Caleb. Caleb Christopher (01:24) Thank you. I live creative finance, so ask in any direction. Jason Hull (01:26) So, yeah, it's your thing. Yeah, yeah, you live it. It's your middle name, right? Yeah. So Caleb was showing me he has paint on his arm from right, like, I don't know where he, yeah, he's been doing some stuff. He's like legit into the work. He's got rental properties. So he's down in the, in the paint. So Caleb, give us a little bit of background on yourself. Caleb Christopher (01:32) Yeah. Yeah. I've got rental properties. Jason Hull (01:51) at kind of your, how did you get into doing what you're doing now? What's sort of your entrepreneurial journey for the entrepreneurs listening? Caleb Christopher (01:58) Yeah, so entrepreneurship has gone way back for me. What, I'm 38 now? I'm almost 39. 39 feels a lot closer to 40 than 38, by the way. ⁓ As an entrepreneur, I'm like, wait, that's like one of those. Anyway, so. Jason Hull (02:06) Yeah, yeah. It's a milestone, yeah. I'm a decade older than you. was born in 77. So I'm feeling even older now. Keep going. Caleb Christopher (02:18) Okay. You look fantastic. So entrepreneurship in fifth grade, I found these mechanical pencils that would come apart in the middle and they were different colors. And I bought them in bulk at Costco and resold them to my classmates in whatever color combinations they want. Mates started making money. I was like, this is kind of cool. And I like customizing stuff. So that was cool. And then a bunch of little stuff like that. And it ended up where I ran a paintball field out of my parents' house in the woods. I liked working. like work as my hobby. Jason Hull (02:23) Thank Yeah. Okay. Yes. Caleb Christopher (02:48) but also paintball. I've got a 12 year old, we're building a paintball course in my, at my house now, cause he's just starting to get into it. So, but I did that and I bought rental gear and I funded my paintball journeys by having other people rent from me. And so that was that. And then I got into IT and cybersecurity consulting. So entrepreneurship has been a thing where I'm just always adding value, always had a second job, some, some other gig where I like to help do creative problem solving. Jason Hull (02:48) Yeah, fun. Yeah, good time. Nice. Yeah. Caleb Christopher (03:15) And then I discovered real estate when I couldn't sell my house. The one I'm in right now was right next door to family, which was great, but I couldn't sell the one I was in. And so I had to rent it out and I became an accidental landlord and refinanced the property. And then I read Rich Dad Poor Dad and I was like, thank God I have a rental property. And that was the beginning of the real estate journey. Jason Hull (03:27) Yeah. Right, right. And everybody, you have to read Rich Dad Poor Dad. I think it's a requirement. And then you want to get out of the rat race and yeah, yeah. We would play. Caleb Christopher (03:41) Yeah. Yeah. Start building wealth. Just treat, treat houses like a retirement account. Slow building. Even if you don't do anything else, if you get a few rentals, you're in a pretty good shape. Jason Hull (03:56) Yeah. Have you seen Robert Kiyosaki's game, the board game? Yeah, probably. Maybe it does all the math for you. ⁓ yeah. We did it the hard way and I would just make my wife do the math. I'm like, go ahead, Sarah. You do this. She's like, she likes it. She thinks that part's fun. Yeah. Right. That's why she's the COO and not me. Caleb Christopher (03:59) Yeah. It's easier to play online than it is the board game. It does. Then you don't have all the little cards handing back and forth. So yeah, I highly recommend just running a private game on a computer. Okay, what a blessing. Jason Hull (04:25) All right, so cool. Well, let's get into this. Let's get in this topic. So tell us about the first thing mentioned in the intro was like the subject two deals, like this strategy. Caleb Christopher (04:39) Yes, so sub 2 is when you take a property subject to something else. It could be a federal IRS lien. It could be the person's mortgage. It's always, by the way, everybody does sub 2 deals and they just haven't thought of it this way. When a utility company comes to dig up a chunk of your yard and you can't say something about it, that's because you bought it subject to easements, rights of way, etc. So... Jason Hull (04:52) Okay. Yeah, easements. Caleb Christopher (05:04) There are external things that can act upon you or your property because you bought the property subject to them. What we do in subject to deals is we add the loan to the list of things taken subject to. So if the mortgage company notices that you sold a house to me without paying off the mortgage, right? The deed transfers to me and I'm making your payments now. That's a sub two. ⁓ if they notice and if they care, they can accelerate that loan because of the due on sale clause. So kind of two birds with one stone with this description. It exists in every. Jason Hull (05:24) Yeah. Yeah, doesn't that void most loans or? Caleb Christopher (05:34) loan I've ever seen. Maybe not in a seller finance loan if you explicitly exclude it. It's not required, but a due on sale is a good protection for a lender to have because if you transfer and if they care, they can accelerate. It doesn't require them to. They can. Jason Hull (05:36) Right. but they can and some terms in loans I believe also if you if it switches ownership, they it says it maybe negates the terms of the agreement or. Caleb Christopher (05:59) Nope, it doesn't cancel anything else. it's, and a lot of people are like, is sub two illegal? No, it's not illegal. Here's when it is illegal. If I'm borrowing with the intent to hand it to somebody else, the deed, it was never my intention to occupy the property or to satisfy the requirements. And I'm misrepresenting or providing materially false information. That's fraud and that's illegal. However, Jason Hull (06:04) Thank Okay. Okay. Caleb Christopher (06:24) If I buy the house and I move into it as my primary residence or whatever the occupancy requirements are, and then I decide later on to sell it subject to the mortgage, I can do that. And that's a violation, a civil violation of the mortgage contract, which says if you transfer without paying us off or without our permission, we can accelerate the loan. But it's a defined default and a defined remedy. Jason Hull (06:42) I see. So I had a client and what he was doing is he was helping facilitate deals and his way of kind of getting around stuff was he would set up a trust. He would place the business, the current owner of the property as, you know, as one of the members of that trust. So they still had that person in place. They would just decrease their ownership stake through the trust, right? So. Caleb Christopher (07:07) Still technically a violation of the due on sale clause. Some people think Garn St. Germain Act protects an investor like all trust acquisitions from a due on sale, which is not true. By the way, a little more background. I'm very technical. read laws and rules and court cases. so if anybody's got a, I'm giving you a real technical answer here, not an attorney though. The Garn St. Germain Act protects family transfers, but not an investor purchase, even if you leave the seller as a partial owner. Technically it's still a violation. Jason Hull (07:16) Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Mm-hmm. Got it. Yeah. Caleb Christopher (07:36) but it's less likely they'll notice. Jason Hull (07:38) I see the sub two guys, Pace Morby or whatever his name is. And I just see a lot of people saying, this is illegal or you can't do this. And people come after him all the time. And I don't know. I don't know what. I'm not as technical maybe as you. So I don't know. What's your take on that? Caleb Christopher (07:54) It's absolutely not illegal. It's illegal to misrepresent something at any time, but there's no duty or compunction in the contract for me to notify you as my lender that I've transferred the property. Even if there was, that would just be another violation of the mortgage contract and not something criminal. Jason Hull (08:05) Got it. Got it, okay, right. You're not going to jail over it, but okay. So if you're doing the subject two or if like some of the property management business owners listening are wanting to maybe take over the ownership of some of the rental properties that they're. Caleb Christopher (08:23) Yeah, dude. Can I say that is, think, the number one opportunity for a property management company owner is you can either do acquisitions for yourself by taking over tired landlords' properties. My goodness. Hey, are you tired of this property? I'll take the deed. I'll pay you X cash and I'll just take over the payments. Huge opportunity. Also playing middleman, if you know sub 2 investors. If you've got tired landlords, you have an opportunity. Jason Hull (08:30) Yes. Hmm. Caleb Christopher (08:51) You can be the buyer or you can be the middleman who finds the buyers who are willing to take those over. And if it's older debt with a lower interest rate, I'm telling you, I will pay more for that property than I will for to get a new, the same property with a new loan. Jason Hull (08:56) Right. Yes, yeah. So, I mean, really, the smartest thing a property management business owner can do is build up their own portfolio, right. And rather than just helping everybody else build up theirs. And we've got a client and he I think he has like he has two, three hundred doors in his business. He owns all of them. He basically just uses his property management business as a honeypot. People come to him, say, hey, I need management. And then he he said, well, let's take a look at your property situation. And then he's like, yeah, well, if you sell this, you're going to have all these taxes and all these issues. And man, if only there was a way you could still get paid on this, but avoid that. And then he convinces them to do seller financing without telling him it's seller financing, sort of. Right. And so then he like just takes over the ownership and he keeps paying them to pay them off. And so he's got this really sizable portfolio. And during the, when the Caleb Christopher (09:37) Hmm. Jason Hull (09:56) If the market shifts a certain way, he's taking on millions of dollars in assets pretty easily, you know, having these conversations. And so, yeah, I think there's definitely an opportunity for property management business owners to be paying attention to this. Is there anything else you would want to say about subject two that maybe they should be aware of or? Caleb Christopher (10:10) Yes. I mean, there's plenty of discussions to be had when you get down into the details. Knowing what it is is the first stage. I would just remind back on this last point, if you have a business and you don't know what to do with those opportunities, other people do and you can get paid a referral fee. So don't sit on the fact that you've got tired landlords. Send out a survey and like, if somebody came to you with an offer today, would you sell? Jason Hull (10:17) . Right. Yeah. And the thing is, as a property manager, they have this, they have several advantages, but one, they know the market, they know which properties would cashflow the best, they know what they could rent for. They're connected to real world reality, unlike a lot of real estate agents in the market when it comes to rentals. And they have a large portfolio of owners. So if one owner is like, want to sell, they've got a whole bunch of others. They could say, Hey, do you want this? So they could do that middleman thing that you were talking about. Okay. Love it. think it's, it's just smart. And, it sounds like the biggest challenge would be the, the sound like the, sounds like the most difficult piece of this would be, how do I get really solid legal counsel for making sure that this is done or structured the right way? Or we keep the loan intact. Caleb Christopher (11:06) That's it. We're done with the episode. That's the main point. Excellent. Yeah. So one thing, the due on sale clause is always going to be a stone hanging over your head. You can't get rid of it. And if you can't take that heat, you got to stay out of the kitchen, basically. That said, I have resolved due on sale on consumer loans, not DSCR. I've resolved due on sale with consumer slash investment property loans for the individual buyer borrower. But where was I going with that? Jason Hull (11:30) Yeah. How did you solve this? Is this like a trade secret or can you share with the audience? Caleb Christopher (11:48) Nah, so the broad strokes are pretty obvious. It's the details that kill you. it's basically, if I bought your house subject to, and they accelerate the loan, then I'm going to try to call them and negotiate them away off the cliff, right? Like, hey, I'm making the payments. What's really the problem? Can I assume this? What options do we have? If they're inflexible, the bigger banks, then I'm going to have to go with technical compliance, which is I'm going to deed the property back to you. Jason Hull (11:54) Yeah. Caleb Christopher (12:15) And then we just get into this whole thing like, yeah, but what if I deed it to you and you don't sign the next document back to me to let me continue like a master lease where I keep all the profits or whatever we want to call it. Ideally, we just restructure the transaction with paperwork that's either less visible or completely acceptable to the lender. Jason Hull (12:31) Got it. So this is just a conversation with the lender, basically, hey, this is what's happening. How do we make this work? So everybody's happy. Caleb Christopher (12:37) and the bigger banks will not tell you how to make it work. They'll just require you to show evidence that ID to the property back to you. But that's only one part of the puzzle, because we still need to restructure the transaction internally. Jason Hull (12:44) I see. Okay. Right. So then it's between you and the homeowner. Yeah. Got it. And there's just making a a deal where they're making your there's money being exchanged, even though the legal technical ownership hasn't really shifted. Caleb Christopher (13:04) Right. There's a paperwork dance around any obstacle. Now you asked about legal counsel. Lawyers are good at saying no. I'm not going to discourage. Here's my law degree right here. I don't have one. So yes, I'm never going to discourage somebody from getting an attorney involved. My concern is a lot of times they don't have the direct experience on these types of deals. And when they see risk, they say no. ⁓ Jason Hull (13:10) Right. That's their default. Right. It looks just like mine. Yeah. Yeah. That's the safest thing for them to do. Caleb Christopher (13:30) That's right. And when I go to an attorney, I'm like, I'm not, I'm paying you to tell me how not tell me no. Jason Hull (13:37) Right. The pre-frame with attorneys is everything. I say the similar thing. You don't go to the attorney and say, hey, how can I get out of this horrible contract with this franchise I'm in, for example? It's this is what I want to do. What's the best way to do this? I'm going to do it. Yeah. So you give them the right pre-frame. Caleb Christopher (13:49) Figure out how. Well, you can't because there's this risk. And I'm like, yeah, there is risk. I need to accept a few risks here because let's be outcomes oriented. And if you can coach an attorney to be outcomes oriented before you start spending a bunch of money on them, then great. That said, I've had a hard enough time finding that in every state. that's why entrepreneurial, I started Creative TC, which is transaction consulting, because I've been there and I've done that with dozens of deals per month for the last four years next. Jason Hull (13:59) Yes. Yes. Caleb Christopher (14:17) in a couple of weeks here. we've touched literally thousands of these deals. We've seen them up, down, left, right, sideways and back. Jason Hull (14:18) Got it. Yeah, so the short answer is call Caleb. Yeah, okay, cool. So the next thing is like, we talked about the do on sale clause a bit. I don't know if there's anything else to mention on that. And then we can go into wraparound mortgages. Caleb Christopher (14:27) Yeah. Yeah, I love it. Jason Hull (14:40) I'm not familiar with wraparound mortgages. Caleb Christopher (14:42) Okay, it's like you ever go to Chipotle and they make that big fat burrito? What if they put a second tortilla around it? Jason Hull (14:47) yeah. then it's way less likely to break open. Caleb Christopher (14:53) Very good. Very good. I think there's a lot of good analogies here with wraparound mortgages. So mortgage is a contract that says, by the way, a lot of people get this backwards, a mortgage, you give the bank a mortgage, they gave you a loan. It's not the other way around. So when you give the bank a mortgage, you're saying, hey, in exchange for this $500,000, you can foreclose if I don't pay it. That's the mortgage. It gives them the right to foreclose. We want to do that to be ethical. If I bought your house subject to the existing mortgage, ideally we would do something called a mirror wrap. Now, if you had equity and you wanted to finance me a larger dollar amount than what you owe, can change that. But a mirror wrap says, hey, here's the existing loan. We're putting another one around it. That way you can foreclose on me for non-payment, just like the bank can foreclose on you. So if I don't make your payments, you can still pay your payments so that your loan is in good standing and they can't foreclose on you. But Jason Hull (15:33) Thank Caleb Christopher (15:47) when I'm not making payments, you can foreclose on me. So a mortgage basically just says, you have the right to foreclose on somebody for violating the terms of the mortgage. Jason Hull (15:58) Yeah, okay, clever. Caleb Christopher (15:59) as opposed to a naked sub 2. Like if I just took the deed and said, I'll make your payments. Cool, but yeah, yeah. It's like, but wouldn't you like the ability to foreclose if I don't? That's a wraparound mortgage. Jason Hull (16:04) Yeah, cool. If I really trust you, but trust the verify, right? So. Right, yeah, like worst case scenario, it's like, you know, just like getting into a relationship pre-nup, post-nup, like making sure there's, like if things go bad, which nobody plans on, it's not gonna be as bad. Yeah. Caleb Christopher (16:25) Right. It's a stop loss, right? It will cost you money to foreclose on me, but your credit's on the line, so you can still protect it to some degree. Jason Hull (16:34) Okay, yeah, cool. I like it. And I would imagine the owners like this too. Everybody likes this. This makes everybody feel safer. Caleb Christopher (16:42) Yes, so that's one aspect is it's the safe legal ethical way to do it. The other piece is that you can use if I've got a 4 % interest mortgage. Actually, I've got one that's a 3.625 a sub 2 in Colorado. If I sold this to a new buyer right now on seller finance, I would give them a wraparound mortgage. But what would I be doing? Would I pass that 3.625 to them? Jason Hull (16:46) huh. Mm-hmm. Well, no, you get a cut, right? Yeah. Caleb Christopher (17:07) I would rather mark it up to 8 % or seven or so, whatever's practical today. So I can keep the difference. can arbitrage the interest rate. So wraparound mortgages work not only for the ability to foreclose on a non-payer, but you can also increase either the total amount financed or the rate or both. And so wraparound mortgages can be used to transfer as a profit mechanism as well. And when you own the house that I sold you, I don't have to fix your toilet. You just have to pay me every month. Jason Hull (17:36) Right, so in the case of the audience here, like property management business owner, they don't want to, like they could take over the property themselves, but they could also facilitate the deal and for the new owner, it's a higher percentage and they're just keeping the difference. Caleb Christopher (17:41) Mm-hmm. Sometimes you've got a tenant who has lived in a property for five years and they're a great tenant. You like, you want to help them out, but they can't seem to get a loan. It's like, all right, well, I'll let you make payments on this one. I don't like rent to own. Not the same because that's up your, you're conveying interest to them monthly. It's a convoluted mess. I would rather do a straight seller finance like this, where we do a wraparound mortgage and I'll bump the rate and you're going to pay me a premium, but you're going to get ownership. Jason Hull (18:04) Yes. Yeah, got it. Okay. Yeah, that's a healthier, safer way. Caleb Christopher (18:20) And now I don't have to replace light bulbs or fix toilets or repair the roof or whatever else goes on the plate. Jason Hull (18:27) Unless you're the manager and you get paid to do that. Caleb Christopher (18:30) What? It moves out of property management at that point if it becomes a seller finance. Yeah, they're the owner now. Jason Hull (18:33) because somebody's buying it. They're not renting. Got it. Yeah. OK, cool. Yeah, I like this idea, the wraparound mortgage. OK. Are there other types of wraparound mortgages? Is that the main thing? Caleb Christopher (18:45) Now they're specific to your situation like what's best for you and what state you're in etc. I just had a conversation with somebody who used up all their available cash to get rent properties. Right, so they got three or four rentals, but they've got no cash left and they've got good interest rates and I said you could sell those on wraps and increase your cash flow every month and get a down payment from somebody and she was like what? Jason Hull (18:48) Yeah. ⁓ Caleb Christopher (19:12) I said, you want capital to do the next deal, right? Yeah. Okay. Jason Hull (19:12) yeah. Right, so yeah, because that low interest rate is an advantage. So it's kind of sellable. Caleb Christopher (19:20) It is and you can make a monthly bump. Yes, it is your low interest loan. By the way, I just say this to people. Your low interest mortgage is an asset I'm willing to buy. The same house is worth more money to me with a low interest rate than I'll buy sub two. Then it is just on the market on average. Jason Hull (19:29) No. Okay. Yeah, that's clever. Yeah, okay. Got it. Very cool. All right, so other creative structures. any others. Caleb Christopher (19:46) Yeah, so contract for deed or land contract, it's a seller, it's a type of seller finance. If I'm the seller, I like it because I hold legal title. And if I hold legal title, you can't place additional liens. Yeah, so I don't want you placing solar liens without my permission or water softener liens or a HELOC on top of whatever current balance is. So if I, if I sell to you on a wraparound mortgage, you have the full deed, legal title and everything. Jason Hull (19:53) Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Caleb Christopher (20:15) and you can place additional liens. You can use this property as security for other loans. I really don't want that complication in case I do have to foreclose and maybe take the property back if I bid what's owed. I don't want it coming back to me with an extra three liens or $40,000 worth of debt. So contract for deed is pretty ideal because I hold legal title, you get equitable title. And it's same seller finance term, same wraparound concept like markup interest rate and monthly payments and stuff. Jason Hull (20:41) Got it, okay, very cool. These are fun little vehicles. There's like these magic little tool sets that you've got in your toolbox. Any others? Caleb Christopher (20:48) I I like the master lease concept where it's like a sub 2, right? I'll make sure all your bills get paid, but I keep everything that comes back on top. I take it off your plate. I agree formally to cover any expenses related to the property, et cetera, but we're going to do it like a master lease with an option to purchase. Jason Hull (20:59) Okay. Thank Caleb Christopher (21:10) If you're scared of due on sale, or if you've got a DSCR loan that will not tolerate a contract for deed or a trust acquisition or a full on sub two, we can do this custom master lease, which replicates all the parts and pieces effectively without violating that due on sale clause. Jason Hull (21:28) Okay. And I know property managers sometimes are talking about things like, know, they want to get their investors into more property, right? So they're talking about things like maybe doing a 1031 exchange to get into a bigger property maybe, or doing cash out refinance to pull equity out to get into a next unit or next property. You know, these type of vehicles. But these additional tools you... Caleb Christopher (21:35) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Jason Hull (21:54) chat about today I think are very fascinating. I don't think a lot of them I haven't heard them talk about. Caleb Christopher (21:58) Yeah, mean, awareness is the big thing, right? You need to be aware that you can do some of these things, and then you find the person who can help structure it specifically for your scenario. But I see a lot of people who are like, I'm going to do a creative deal. And it's like, on what, though? Jason Hull (22:12) Yeah. Got it. Okay. So, I don't know if there's anything else we're missing or that you wanted to cover, but I think then the next question would be how, where do you fit into this? Cause you have a business that facilitates this or helps with this. Caleb Christopher (22:27) Yeah. So I started Creative TC four years ago and this creative transaction consulting so that we could help make these deals safe, legal and ethical. You can imagine that it's pretty easy to do somebody dirty, whether you mean to or not, with these arrangements when somebody's credits on the line, they're convoluted. And so you need a guiding light. You need somebody to hold your hand, maybe be a lighthouse so you don't crash on the rocks. That's what Creative TC is. And so we consult on these deals nationwide to help people do them safely. Jason Hull (22:35) Okay. yeah. Okay. Caleb Christopher (22:56) And then I started Creative Title this last year to fill a void in the state of Colorado where a bunch of companies were pulling out of creative deals. Jason Hull (23:04) Yeah, got it. So yeah, I get it. Yeah. And I'm sure a lot of times it's not even the, it's, everybody has good intentions, maybe from the very beginning. But when, as soon as something gets weird or sticky or confusing or challenging, then somebody's like, feels like somebody else is being unethical or do them dirty or whatever, or we don't have a, we don't have an exit path or we don't have a clear delineation of, you know, that makes everybody feel comfortable where we can split ways or part ways. so. Caleb Christopher (23:12) Yeah. Money's on the line. Jason Hull (23:32) Yeah, having something structured right from the beginning, they say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of care, right? And a lot of times I, when talking with my clients, because, know, in property management, have lease contracts, lease agreements, have the agreements or contracts they have with the owners for taking over the management of the property. And I, what I usually say to them is those are nice, but those usually only matter if you use them incorrectly. They only matter when you're at war. Caleb Christopher (23:35) yeah. Yep. 100%. Yes. ⁓ Jason Hull (24:03) It only matter when you're there. So, but if you proactively review the agreements with them and go through it with them and help them understand it, it's then an onboarding tool and it helps set the frame of the relationship and it helps everybody understand. And because it doesn't matter what's written in agreement until you're at war. But before then, what matters is what they think is written in that agreement. And so making sure that you go over things with them to make sure they understand this is paramount. And that like makes like, Caleb Christopher (24:13) Yes. I need, I need this as a sound clip for my team because this is how I train my team as well. I just need it from somebody else because it sounds better coming from not me. ⁓ it's expectations management is absolutely essential, especially in creative finance deals where I'm making your payments, your credits on the line. If I don't make your payments, it hurts your credit score and can cause a foreclosure. The buyer and seller need to have that conversation. And sometimes it requires a third party to help facilitate. Hey, here's what happens. Jason Hull (24:32) in a relationship. Right, so you can use that. Yeah. Caleb Christopher (24:59) Here's how to manage those expectations. Let's look at this. We're not just signing disclosures just because they're legally required or suggested, but we want to have a meaningful conversation and talk through the stuff so that everybody's on the same page because if the due on sale clause comes knocking, we need to be on the same team. Jason Hull (25:14) Yeah, yeah. So my wife and I got married in Mexico because that's we wanted to get married there. And usually what people will do is they'll just do it legally in the US, but they'll do it symbolically in Mexico. And Sarah's like, no, let's let's do both there. Let's do it. And they make you list out your assets. It's almost like they're like proactively making everyone have a prenup, right? Now we already had a prenup. And then our lawyer was like, you also need to have a postnup. So we did that. And it's just like we know, like if Caleb Christopher (25:34) Okay. Jason Hull (25:42) for some reason there was a problem, like things went south, then it's not gonna be all out war, right? It's clear, you own this, I own this, this is how it works, this is how we part ways, here's how we split the business. And so everything, and this is what smart business owners do with their business when they get into business partnerships. And so without that, And I think with your team, for example, the analogy that everybody understands is divorce, because 50 % of relationships in the US probably end that way. Everybody's been like maybe their parents or they've seen a family member or they've seen somebody go through this. And that's the epitome of not having a really solid planned out strategy from the beginning, because nobody was planning on this happening. But, know, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure if you have that dialed in, they're not spending. Caleb Christopher (26:10) Hmm. Jason Hull (26:26) $20,000 in legal fees where only the attorneys are winning and you know, and then you're losing a bunch of stuff and this was yours and they didn't contribute to this, but now you have to give them half and all this kind of stuff. so, yeah, and so you help them kind of make both parties and everybody involved feel comfortable and then you get paid a consulting fee for doing handling this. Cool, very cool. Cool, so I would imagine there might be some property managers listening to this. Any final words you'd like to say to them and how can they get in touch with you if they would like to help you facilitate some of stuff they're working on? Caleb Christopher (27:06) I think the value of a property manager or a realtor is very much in who they know that's vetted. Okay. A realtor, it's like, I know a foundation guy. I know a roof guy. I know a flooring guy, right? That's what I'm paying you for. Not just your commission to take photos and have some conversations. I want to know who knows who you know, you can validate. The same thing is true for property managers. I got a repair guy, very consistent. I've got three different plumbers. If it's this type, I know this guy's got the best rates. That's what I want you to know. when you're my property manager, that's what I'm paying you for. The same thing is true now with Creative Finance. It's like, hey, I know a guy that's an expert that has 255 star reviews at what they do. They only do this thing and they do it really well. So if you want to buy or sell Creative Finance, let me call Caleb. I'm that guy. Jason Hull (27:53) Yeah, mean, a lot of the best property management business owners are viewed by their clients as an investment expert or advisor. And the best investment people or advisors have a whole toolset of people in their back pocket, whether it's trust attorneys or somebody like Caleb, right? They have all these different resources, maybe lenders, you know. They have all these different resources available to facilitate deals. And that's how some property managers are able to help their clients get into more property and have more deals to manage. Or like we talked about at the outset, even better, how to get more ownership stake over all the properties that you're managing and build up your own portfolio and your own wealth. Caleb Christopher (28:37) Yeah, because I should be able to call my property manager and say, who's good at DSCRE finances in your area? Who do you like? I don't know. Okay. Maybe be a little more helpful. Jason Hull (28:44) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, got it. All right. Awesome. Well, Caleb, I appreciate you coming here on the door grow show. How can people get in touch with you? Caleb Christopher (28:57) right. The easiest way, because I own multiple companies, calebchristopher.io. That's got links to Creative TC for the consulting, Dosgard to fix due on sale, and Creative Title Company in Colorado and Tennessee. Jason Hull (29:09) Perfect, awesome. Hey, thanks for being on the DoorGrow show. All right, for those watching this, if you're listening, if you've ever felt stuck or stagnant and you wanna take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us at doorgrow.com for free training on how to get unlimited free leads. Text the word leads to 512-648-4608. Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners by going to doorgrowclub.com. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas, Caleb Christopher (29:12) It's been a pleasure. Jason Hull (29:37) to learn about our offers at DoorGrow. Subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on whatever channel you found this on. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

DGS 337: Property Management: A Teen Entrepreneur Head Start

Jason sat down with young entrepreneur Malcolm Keith to explore how teens can develop leadership, confidence, and entrepreneurial thinking much earlier in life, long before most people ever consider that path. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull and teen entrepreneur Malcolm Keith discuss how environment shapes mindset, why exposure matters more than pressure, and how parents can give their teenagers a powerful head start by surrounding them with the right opportunities and conversations. You'll Learn (00:00) Why Every Entrepreneur Wishes They Could Start Earlier (00:45) Malcolm Keith's Early Exposure to Entrepreneurship (02:00) How Environment Shapes an Entrepreneurial Mindset (03:50) Discovering the Power of Being in the Right Rooms (05:00) The Isolation of Young Entrepreneurs (and How He Solved It) (06:10) Building Teen Mastermind: From Idea to Community (07:30) Taking a Shot: Trying to Get on Funnel Hacking Live Stage (09:00) Turning Community Into Real-World Experiences (Live Events) (12:30) Designing Events for Growth: Community, Action, and Fun (18:30) Advice for Parents: How to Raise Entrepreneurial Thinkers Quotables "It wasn't my parents who were directly telling me like, you need to be a business owner. This is how being an entrepreneur works. It was the people on stage that were selling me on the idea of entrepreneurship." "If you don't ask, the answer is always no." "I never knew it become this big and we'd be doing live events. I just created it because I wanted a friend group." Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/courses/mastermind] DoorGrow Academy [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/] DoorGrow on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1mGYT2Sw0LOe32hO_QdNg/featured] DoorGrowClub [https://doorgrow.com/] DoorGrowLive [https://doorgrowlive.com/] Transcript Jason Hull (00:01) All right, five, four, three, two, one. Welcome everybody. I'm Jason Hull, the owner and founder of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we've brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. All right. So today this show is going to be all about giving your teenager the headstart that you wish you had as an entrepreneur. Don't you wish you could just go back and like help yourself out. So I'm hanging out here today with Malcolm. Malcolm, welcome. Welcome, Keith. Malcolm Keith (00:56) Hey, thank you. Jason Hull (00:59) welcome to the show. So I'll give you a little bit of background on Malcolm. At just 17, Malcolm launched Teen Mastermind, a growing community of more than 60 teens dedicated to leadership, entrepreneurship, and building a meaningful legacy. Now 19, Malcolm has taken that vision even further by bringing the movement into the real world with Teen Mastermind Live, a three-day immersive leadership experience designed for both teens and their parents. In a time when most conversations about young people revolve around screen addiction and disconnection and lack of direction, Malcolm represents a powerful counter narrative. As a young leader himself, he's helping teens step into confidence, develop entrepreneurial thinking and strengthen family relationships around shared purpose and growth. So Malcolm, welcome to the DoorGrow show. Malcolm Keith (01:53) Awesome. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here. Jason Hull (01:56) Cool, cool. So now tell people a little bit, how did you get started doing this and how did you kind of start your little entrepreneurial journey yourself? Malcolm Keith (02:09) Yeah, so my parents got married and opened their dojo the same year. And so I've been in the entrepreneurial world my entire life, about as long as I've been on the mats doing jujitsu. And so those two go very hand in hand in my journey. ⁓ And so I think when I was when I was nine years old is when my parents, they've been going to a mastermind for ⁓ martial arts school owners. And so they've been like, you Jason Hull (02:17) Thank Malcolm Keith (02:38) One parent would go while the other parent would stay home and take care of me and my little sister. But one day they were like, why are we continuing to do this? We, we homeschool and we have the ability to just take the whole family together and it kind of sucks when the family is split apart. So why don't we just, so they made a commitment to always take the whole family on every trip, on every business trip. And so we got to sit in the meeting rooms. and learn from these entrepreneurs. At first we were like little kids just playing with our toys quietly in the corner, reading a book quietly. But ⁓ as a little kid, you're a little information sponge. And so eventually we actually started listening and taking notes. And then I think it was probably when we went to some of Russell's events, like Funnel Hacking Live and Unlock the Secrets was when I was like, this entrepreneur stuff is super cool. And it wasn't my parents who were directly telling me like, you need to be a business owner. This is how being an entrepreneur works. It was the people on stage that, so my parents put me in these rooms where there were people on stage and they were the ones that were selling me on the idea of entrepreneurship. And so that's how, that's kind of how I got into this whole world. Jason Hull (03:56) You had entrepreneurial parents and they put you in some amazing opportunities and rooms to be exposed to think differently. And man, that's like the best homeschool education ever, right? It's a real education that actually leads you making money instead of just being a really good employee somewhere maybe. cool. And your parents are doing, have the martial arts school and doing the martial arts thing. And do you do martial arts? ⁓ Malcolm Keith (04:08) yeah. Yeah, I've been doing it since I I learned how to walk and talk on the mats. So I've been, yeah, whole life. Jason Hull (04:26) Yeah, okay. So right. I mean, don't let the glasses fool you. This guy could probably kick your butt. So, all right. So very cool. So Malcolm, and you've been doing this mastermind, you've got this event coming up. So tell people about like, why did you decide to start this and get this thing going? Malcolm Keith (04:47) Yeah, so I've been going to these, like, there's been, we've been going to Russell's events for a while and I would sometimes meet a couple of the teens there. ⁓ There'd be occasionally a few teens, but we would never stay connected. And ⁓ as I was homeschooled, we were part of kind of a co-op. And so I still had like classmates that I would meet with every week and it was great. But every time I'd come back home from these events, I'd come back to class and talk with my classmates there. And they just didn't understand it, this whole world of entrepreneurship and being a business owner and having a big vision and actually knowing that you can achieve it. so they didn't get exposed to that world ⁓ the same way that I did. And so ⁓ that felt a bit isolating. ⁓ Jason Hull (05:32) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Malcolm Keith (05:44) It was at like, I think it was Unlock the Secrets that I saw that, there are actually other teens that ⁓ are not only interested, but doing business already. But then I kept going to those events and we would never stay connected. ⁓ And so eventually it was ⁓ Unlock the Secrets in Paradise in 2024. And I realized, and I made the decision like, okay, this time is going to be different. Jason Hull (06:01) Yeah. Malcolm Keith (06:13) I'm going to make a Discord server and invite all the teams that I meet there. And we're just going to make a commitment to stay connected. Then we had, so I invited everybody there that I had met. We did our own little like in-person mastermind ⁓ during like one of the off sessions during the event, which is super fun. And then ⁓ one of us had the idea to start doing a call every week. So that's how that started happening. We could stay connected, keep each other updated on. what we're all doing with our businesses. And that's how that started. Eventually the idea came along to, ⁓ we had this idea to try to get on the FHL 10 stage. And it's crazy idea, like, cause only the best of the best get on that stage. But. Jason Hull (06:44) Yeah. So let's pause for a second. So I wanna explain to people listening. So he's mentioning Russell. We're talking about Russell Brunson. He's like the sort of the founder of ClickFunnels and brilliant entrepreneur, probably one of the greatest marketing minds ⁓ period of this generation. And ⁓ that's how we met you and your parents is we're in Russell Brunson's inner circle. ⁓ which is not an inexpensive thing to be part of. So getting access to that as a teenager is pretty amazing. So really awesome. And you were wanting to get on stage at Funnel Hacking Live, which was like this massive event. I think they have like sometimes 5,000, 6,000 people at these conferences, these events. And you're like, how can we maybe get on stage at this event as teenagers? So I love it. All right, so continue. Malcolm Keith (07:53) Yeah, biggest marketing business event like ever. So rock concert for entrepreneurs. ⁓ So we had this idea, what if we try to get on stage? It's probably not going to happen, but you might as well try. If you don't ask, the answer is always no. So, yeah, we put together a video made sure to include as many little like nods to all the stuff that Russell says to show that you actually listen to him. ⁓ And he really appreciated it. He said that Jason Hull (07:59) Yeah. Right, yeah. Yeah. Malcolm Keith (08:24) The lineup for the main stage was already chosen like a while before we had sent the video. But they were doing this new thing called round tables while actually bringing it back to this last event. So it was like 60 round tables each hosted by a high level entrepreneur. And they're like, maybe we can try to give you one of these round tables, which ended up being way better because we can actually talk directly to the other teens who came to that event, which there are a ton, which is Jason Hull (08:30) I'm sure. Yeah. Malcolm Keith (08:53) So cool to see. So we did that. And the team mastermind grew a lot after that event. was, I think, we were able to get our own separate room during that event. They were able to give one to us. And we had just our own in-person mastermind during FHL with 20 or more teens all in the room talking about our goals for the next 10 years. Jason Hull (09:11) Yeah. Malcolm Keith (09:23) and figuring out like what are the things that we're going to do today and this next week after we come back home that's actually going to bring us closer to those goals. So that was that was super fun. Jason Hull (09:24) That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah, that's really cool. So ⁓ you're 19th over, right? What happens to this teen mastermind when you're not a teenager? Like that's within the next year. Malcolm Keith (09:40) I am, yes. Yeah, that's been something that I've been thinking about almost since the inception of it. Although at the beginning of it, I never knew it become this big and we'd be doing live events. Like I just created it because I wanted a friend group. ⁓ But they're like, this is super valuable. You got to monetize it. And so that took me a while to do that, ⁓ to kind of get over that block of like, I don't want to charge people who are my friends for something that I created. Jason Hull (09:54) Sure, yeah. Yeah. Malcolm Keith (10:17) as a community, ⁓ but they were telling me like, it is super valuable and people value it more if you actually do charge money for it. Attention, yep, exactly. So I finally did that and that immediately started to grow the team mastermind. And then they were asking for live events. And so we're like, okay, yeah, we should do a live event just for our group. ⁓ Jason Hull (10:25) Yeah, like Russell says, when people pay, they pay attention. Malcolm Keith (10:44) because there's Jason Hull (10:44) Yeah. Malcolm Keith (10:45) people, not just, a lot of them at the start were from Russell's Circles, going to Funnel Hacking Live together, but then there were teens from other places as well. And so we needed one kind of ⁓ our own place to all get together. So that's how the live event came about. ⁓ And I started with something else. I totally forgot. went off. Jason Hull (11:05) Well, yeah, it's ideas like what comes next? are you going to keep doing this? I mean, I imagine you could keep doing it, but you you're about to turn 20, so you're not a teen. But that's the main thing, can't run the team mastermind, but at some point you might be like, my friend group's getting a little young here, so. Malcolm Keith (11:08) Yeah. Yeah, so I got another year left. Yeah, I mean, the thing is, the friends that are in there right now, ⁓ they're all growing up to. And so I think once all of those people quote unquote age out as well, I'll always have like my own inner circle of people that are similar to my age. We won't always all be teens, but we'll all be around the same distance apart. And so I think there'll be a mastermind afterwards, but Jason Hull (11:39) Yeah. Malcolm Keith (11:53) I'll always be part of the Teen Mastermind in some way, maybe not in the same role that I am right now. ⁓ I'm the person that's just a couple of steps ahead. ⁓ Jason Hull (12:06) Yeah. Well, maybe you pick a teenager to kind of head it up or maybe they vote or something, but then you've got, you, give them the IP, you set up the frameworks, you help them know this, how to run the events. can ask you for guidance and you're always going to be a step ahead. know, so. Malcolm Keith (12:23) Yeah, so that's, that was a really cool part of the mastermind was that it was created by a team and led by a team for teens. And so I always wanted to keep it that way. ⁓ and a couple of the teens in the group have kind of stepped up and become their own leaders in the group. and so I've been, ⁓ recruiting them a little bit here and there, and it's been really awesome so far. And so that's, ⁓ Jason Hull (12:34) Yeah. Yeah. Malcolm Keith (12:52) That's working out a lot. Jason Hull (12:54) Right. Yeah. Now you're like Willy Wonka and you're just trying to find Charlie at the, who do I give the golden ticket to and teach them the ways and let them run this place. All right. So really cool. So what are some of the things that happen at the, at the event that you're gearing up? Malcolm Keith (13:01) Yep. Yeah, so the idea first came, let's see, that's actually, okay, I'll save that. There's the grand finale part, which is my favorite and kind of the first idea that came about. ⁓ But so at the event, ⁓ I'm going to take pieces of previous events that I had been to the things that I really liked and implement them, but also look at the things that I, you know, didn't like as much or things that I think could be improved and kind of take that into it. And so the whole event is built around community implementation and fun. At a lot of events, you know, if it's the event of like thousands of people, you can't really do this. But if it's an event of maybe a hundred or less, then you could very easily as the host, make sure that everybody knows each other. And so we start the event with Jason Hull (13:52) Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Malcolm Keith (14:10) having all the families introduce each other or introduce themselves so that everyone kind of knows like who it is that they're actually sitting next to because it's like to be at an event and have no clue who the person who the how cool the person in the chair to the right of you is. So that's how we start it. And then we love the walk and talks. Russell does that with Inner Circle. ⁓ Walk and talks are amazing. So we do that between every speaker and then. ⁓ Jason Hull (14:26) Right, yeah. Okay. Malcolm Keith (14:39) All of the, everybody sat at a round table and that's very specific because, ⁓ means that everybody is kind of grouped together and they get to talk, you know, across from each other instead of like talking all the way over to the table there, they're ⁓ sitting around and that automatically like subconsciously creates that sense of community. ⁓ so everything is built around that creating opportunities. for people to have conversations. And then implementation, we want to make sure that the teens aren't just sitting there in a room having speakers just talk at them for hours. ⁓ We make sure that all those speakers have something like some kind of workshop and the teens are doing something active. And you learn more that way and you actually get stuff done during the event. And you can take that momentum with you back home. Jason Hull (15:32) Yeah. Malcolm Keith (15:36) and continue on from there. So many events give you a ton of ideas, but you're like, have no clue what to do when you get back home. Jason Hull (15:45) Yeah, I got it. Some people call that experiential learning instead of just, you know, sitting there and listening the whole time and then eventually zoning out, making sure that I like the walk and talks. I like that there's this experiential learning where you're taking action, each of the speakers, it sounds like a challenge to do like get people to do something or implement something. So. Malcolm Keith (16:07) Yeah, so we're super intentional about that. And then fun, of course. I think that's the most important because if I really do any of this, if it isn't fun along the way, entrepreneurship should be fun. Jason Hull (16:21) Yeah, business owners, don't think of that a lot. Entrepreneurs are like, wait, like, let's make money. But yeah, but fun is nice, right? So how do you make it fun? Maybe you can teach the grownup here how to how to be more fun. So. Malcolm Keith (16:31) So again, all the speakers are. Yeah, the, mean, every speaker and all the workshops are meant to be fun. ⁓ and then we also have, excursion, like a special trip that we do for each day. So the first one is usually something kind of unique to the area for the one we did here in Oregon. ⁓ we went to wildlife safari, which I sometimes call it a zoo, but it's way more than that. It's, it is like an actual safari. we did like a bus tour and got to see a bunch of, ⁓ cool animals. Jason Hull (17:01) Yeah. Malcolm Keith (17:05) ⁓ in Arizona, we went to, ⁓ a like super car show, which is super fun. And then for this next event in Illinois, we'll be going like a ⁓ hiking trip and seeing some of the cool scenery there. So that's what we do for the first day, something kind of unique to the area that we go to. ⁓ on day two, we do jujitsu and so bringing my family's business routes there. ⁓ and there's. Jason Hull (17:13) Nice. Yeah. Malcolm Keith (17:35) As my dad always says, jujitsu is a metaphor for pretty much everything. ⁓ It's constantly in the cars, what we talk about is how does jujitsu relate. Jason Hull (17:40) Right. Is this Brazilian jujitsu or jujitsu or are you like throwing people like what are doing during the Malcolm Keith (17:52) No, we usually teach like some basic self-defense stuff. So, wrist grab escapes, and then we do kind of more of what you would see if you actually watched a Jujutsu match, which is kind of like the grappling on the ground, ⁓ like a trap and roll. If someone's sitting on top of you, how to like get them over and escape. ⁓ So, some of the basic stuff like that. Jason Hull (18:08) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Malcolm Keith (18:19) No throws and stuff. You need to learn how to fall first before you can throw. so yeah. Yeah. Jason Hull (18:23) Sure, yeah, Breakfall, yeah, got it. So like mount, guard. Okay, got it, okay. And these are with parents and kids? Malcolm Keith (18:30) Mm-hmm. Yeah, that all that kind of stuff Yes, so the whole event is supposed to be not just for teens, but for the whole family, because that's how our family does it. We always go together and we want to continue to be that example and start to like influence that mindset in other families to be a family together. so ⁓ and the jujitsu really helps with that. A lot of the like most successful students in ⁓ our dojo are families that all do it together. ⁓ Jason Hull (19:07) I see. Okay, got it. So when you're doing the second day, and is it just two days? Malcolm Keith (19:14) And then we have a final third day and we end the event with the Teenpreneur Ball. And that's an opportunity for all the teens, the whole family to ⁓ dress nice, dress fancy, which is very rare nowadays, especially for kids and teens. ⁓ And so I wanted to provide that opportunity to dress nice and fancy. We have a dinner and so that gives us an opportunity to learn about. Jason Hull (19:16) Third day. Malcolm Keith (19:43) like table etiquette, and then we do English dancing. So have you ever seen like pride and prejudice that movie? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So big. Yeah. Big rows of, ⁓ of dance of, yeah, dancing. They all dance together. Jason Hull (19:51) I think I know what you're talking about, where they're like all kind of doing their thing in circle and like turning. like ancient English line dancing or something. Okay. Okay. Yeah. All right. Cool. So a little teenpreneur ball. Malcolm Keith (20:06) Yeah, I think it's called English country dancing, but yeah, I just call it English dancing. yeah. So and that's yeah, so and that's our grand finale and the teens and the parents especially actually really love it. Jason Hull (20:21) Yeah, okay. Yeah, you have an excuse to dress nice and dance with each other. all right. Yeah, I love it. That sounds, it sounds like fun. So, sounds really cool. So when is your, when's your next one? Malcolm Keith (20:28) Yeah. Our next one is April 30th to May 2nd in Marion, Illinois. Jason Hull (20:39) April 30th to May 2nd. Sorry, what were you saying? Malcolm Keith (20:45) It'll be in Marion, Illinois. Jason Hull (20:50) Cool. How do you pick the locations? Malcolm Keith (20:53) well, the first location that's where we live, we had a couple of members in Arizona and they were like really adamant about like, Scottsdale is amazing. So we went there and then a couple of our founding members who've been just so supportive since the beginning are in Illinois. So they're, they've been a huge help. Jason Hull (20:56) Yep. ⁓ got it. So you've got some boots on the ground in each area assisting you. Malcolm Keith (21:16) yeah, yeah, it's, I'm so grateful for, yeah, the patents. They are awesome. Jason Hull (21:21) Yeah, very cool. Well, hey, Malcolm, really awesome. As adults, we love seeing this, ⁓ seeing the youth doing cool stuff like this. It's inspiring. And there's probably a lot of entrepreneurs listening to this. They're man, I wish my kid would just stop playing video games and be more like me and be more entrepreneurial. But sometimes kids are not entrepreneurial like their parents are. So. they might feel like forcing them into this. So what would you say to some of those parents that might be trying to push their kid into being an entrepreneur and maybe the kids like, this isn't my thing. Malcolm Keith (21:58) Yeah, I'd say my parents didn't necessarily push me. They just put me in the rooms where I learned that that was a path that was available to me. And I think that's the most important because the school system, I mean, it's a fact at this point. It is designed for the employee path. That's just a straight fact. Yeah, but and so there was no yeah, there's no teaching of the entrepreneurial way. Jason Hull (22:09) Yeah. Right. It makes good employees. Good factory worker. Malcolm Keith (22:27) And so, and I totally agree that not everybody is built to be an entrepreneur, not everybody's built to be an employee either. And so having that option ⁓ just allows for your team to make a choice and to make an educated choice. And that's what, that's kind of what it's all about is giving them that opportunity and it's up to them whether or not they take it. ⁓ But there are so many lessons from entrepreneurship anyway that can apply to the ⁓ Jason Hull (22:31) Yeah. Malcolm Keith (22:57) employee path anyway. Jason Hull (22:59) Yeah, cool. Well, Malcolm, I really appreciate you being here on the DoorGrowth show. How can people find out about the Teen Mastermind, this event, and connect with you? Malcolm Keith (23:11) Yeah, the best place ⁓ probably for the event would be teammastermylive.com. Jason Hull (23:17) teenmastermindlive.com. Cool. So if you're a parent listening to this and you're like, man, I got a teenager and they might be interested in this and this sounds cool. Maybe this would be exciting for them. Then go check out teenmastermind. That's what it is, teenmastermind.com. Live. Okay, teenmastermindlive.com. Cool. Malcolm, thanks for coming here on the DoorGro show and hanging out with me for a bit. Keep going. Excited to see what you do next as you move into. Malcolm Keith (23:33) Yeah. Jason Hull (23:46) adulthood outside of being just a teenager, right? So very cool. All right. I've got a whining dog here in my office, so it might be time to go. for those, if you're a property management business owner and you enjoyed this episode, if you've ever felt stuck or stagnant and you want to take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us at door, go.com for free training on how to get unlimited free leads. Text the word leads to five one two six four eight four six zero eight. Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners at doorgro club.com. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas to learn about our offers, subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgro.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it until next time. Remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone.

DGS 336: A capital partner to enable your growth

In this episode, Jason sat down with Brian Seidensticker of Mount North Capital to unpack one of the biggest growth constraints property management business owners face: access to capital at the exact moment opportunity appears. In today's show of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull and investor Brian Seidensticker discuss how strategic funding partnerships work, what makes an ideal market and operator, and how property managers can scale faster by combining capital, systems, and the right long-term investment mindset. You'll Learn (05:01) How Mount North Capital helps property management firms with funding: This is the heart of the episode: what they actually do and why it matters. (06:26) Partnership models for property managers and investors: Defines the structure of the opportunity, how both sides work together. (08:45) The win-win scenario for property managers and investors: The philosophy behind the model; why this isn't just financing, but alignment. (09:58) Ideal property management partners and market criteria: Who this is really for, and who it isn't. (11:19) Market selection and geographic focus for investments: Critical filter: where this strategy works in reality. (12:48) The importance of systems and scaling in property management: Without this, everything else breaks. This is the operational truth. (14:29) Overcoming growth ceilings with the right mindset and resources: The deeper constraint isn't capital, it's capability and mindset. (16:39) Evaluating deals in secondary and tertiary markets: Where the actual opportunity lives, beyond obvious markets. (19:17) Advice for property managers ready to grow: The moment where theory turns into direction. (21:46) Partnership requirements and collaboration with DoorGrow: The non-negotiables, this sets the bar for entry into the model. Quotables "The reality is most would never even if they knew what you were doing, most wouldn't even do it. Like most people don't implement. That's just reality in life." "The best scenario for property managers is to manage their own portfolio." "One of my requirements is we do want to scale on a significant level." Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/courses/mastermind] DoorGrow Academy [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/] DoorGrow on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1mGYT2Sw0LOe32hO_QdNg/featured] DoorGrowClub [https://doorgrow.com/] DoorGrowLive [https://doorgrowlive.com/] Transcript Jason Hull (00:01) Five, four, three, two, one. All right, I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we've brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses, the business owners, and change their lives. want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. So today's episode, our guest is Brian Seidensticker of Mount North Capital. We're going to talk about one of the biggest challenges property management entrepreneurs face having access to capital at the exact moment opportunity strikes. So If you've ever been presented with an incredible acquisition expansion opportunity or growth moment and you wish you had immediate access to funds to confidently move forward, we're going to unpack that today. And that's what we're going to chat about. So welcome to the show, Brian. Brian Seidensticker (01:18) Thanks Jason. Thanks for having me. Thanks having me back, right? Jason Hull (01:21) Yeah. Yes, it's good to have you. So cool. So let's get into let's get into this. So ⁓ let's give everybody a little bit of background first. And ⁓ what what you know, what do people need to know about Brian that have listened to this? This is the first episode first time. Brian Seidensticker (01:47) Well, think maybe a brief history of ⁓ how myself and we, which is ⁓ Mountain with Capital, came to be. I'm actually an engineer by trade and I'd say in a different life, Jason, I would be reaching out to you for help on how to figure out this business that I randomly went off and ⁓ created and then found myself eight years later going, man, this is outgrown my capabilities. What do I do? ⁓ I got a similar help in the form of a group that I joined called Entrepreneurs Organization. And it's been transforming, getting that help from somebody that knows how to take what you build to the next level. So. As part of that, really what we ended up doing is we went from a data software company that had reached a ceiling. We had a really unique data set and then we built a fund, is Mountain with Capital, around the ability or really the model of using that data and acquiring assets in certain markets where we felt with this analytics, we could buy properties that have really great discount, right? Using, you know, not only the platform, but then the style of auctions that we attend. But a key component of that was the partners that we worked with, right? And still work with today. And we were very successful in building partnerships with boots on the ground and folks that knew what to do with these properties. Because we, A, we had a great way of identifying and we had the capital available to acquire those assets, right? At the time, these are auctions that Jason Hull (03:28) . Brian Seidensticker (03:28) that required cash, right? And that's the hard part. And it worked out really well. We went from, you know, a million dollar, you know, proof of concept fund. Last month, we were about 58 million of assets under management. And so it's, it's been great, but it certainly has also uncovered other opportunities for us along the way. The typical partner that we work with is kind of a fix and flip strategy, right? But Jason Hull (03:47) Hmm. Yeah. Brian Seidensticker (03:55) we felt a lot of the opportunities that we were seeing is much more in the, I'll say fixed to buying rent, right? It was the long-term hold strategy where we had an excellent avenue of acquiring, right, and getting them there, right? But what we were looking for and lacked is really the property managers that we want to partner with in those areas. our I don't want to give away all of the special sauce or we can dive into the details, but that's really what's led us to where we're at today is we're kind of at this pivot point and we've built a couple relationships with great partners in a couple markets and now we're wanting to grow that, right, and find more partners in more markets. Jason Hull (04:40) Yeah, we want all the special sauce, Brian. Give it to us. I'm just kidding. So, I mean, the reality is most would never even if they knew what you were doing, most wouldn't even do it. Like most people don't implement. That's just reality in life. Right. Like a lot of people like what's how's door grow helping people grow? I'll tell you, I give away free videos that teach you like what we do. But until they join our program, they find it difficult or hard to figure stuff out on their own. They just they don't do it. So. So awesome. So Brian, obviously you believe in mentorship and coaching and you've gotten, you you have had resources that have helped you get to where you're at now. So let's get into the topic at hand. So let's unpack. How is Mountain North Capital helping property management business owners unlock strategic funding solutions that fuel growth, right? Like, how do we do this? Brian Seidensticker (05:37) Yeah, I think, you know, kind of thinking out loud here a little bit, right? But, you know, I'll, I'm a big fan of, you know, it sound cliche, like win-win, right? Is we're not sick. We're not a bank, right? It's like, Hey, I got a better rate than you do. And we're not in it, you know, purely for ourselves. And so everything we go into, we, we look at it as a partnership, right? But it also has to make sense for the folks that we're going to partner with. And so, you know, Really what we are looking for are, and the partnerships that we found to be very successful are scenarios where ⁓ if there's a property manager or I guess a property manager that will. maybe wants to get into the business, You know, an aspiring property manager, if you will. ⁓ And they have access to a, you know, either it's a deal or a market or a ⁓ portfolio, right? Where maybe they don't have the ability to take that down themselves, right? because I know full well, right? Why would you partner with somebody? you know, for the capital access, if you have the ability to buy it yourself, it always makes sense to buy it yourself, right? And so really what we're looking for are folks that maybe have, you know, scenarios or deals that come across, right, that would allow them to grow their portfolio that they're managing, right, grow their business, right? ⁓ Especially if they think of it as a business, ⁓ but maybe don't necessarily have the capital stack that allow them to to pursue that to its fullest, then we might be a partner, and it is a partner partnership, to help them grow that business really with a different tool in their belt than they maybe have ever had before. And that's really, know, when we were talking with, I'll say potential partners, you know, on this concept initially was, hey, we were only interested in the acquisition and the you know, get it ready for rent. then Mount Norris typical model was let's refinance or sell it out. Let's get it out. We get out of the fund as quickly as possible. And we had success in doing that. But a lot of times, you know, the partners that we're working with, we really, they wanted to build, do that, but they wanted to keep it in their portfolio, make it a rental, right? Hold it for the longterm. ⁓ And so it was like a partial solution for them. And we, I guess, went out on a limb and built a structure with a couple of them that Jason Hull (08:10) Thank Brian Seidensticker (08:11) that it took it beyond just that initial acquisition and they'll say fix and flip stage to a, okay, now we've got another tool that we can bring to the table from our end, a new fund that allows us to take on those assets for the long term. And so we can partner with you beyond just that acquisition and disposition. it's so far has been, you ⁓ I'll say immensely ⁓ rewarding, right? But it's still early, right? And we're definitely in the growth phase. And so it's an exciting adventure to embark on. Jason Hull (08:43) Yeah, I see it as this awesome win-win. There's three sort of challenges. One, there needs to be somebody with capital to deploy. There needs to be a really good property manager. But most property managers aren't good. Most suck. And then we need somebody maybe to help bring those together, door grow, and help those property managers be good. And so I'm excited to maybe find you some... Brian Seidensticker (08:59) you Exactly. Jason Hull (09:13) connect some of our potential clients, because this might be a way that our clients can grow their portfolios, maybe even have some ownership stake in some of these investments. And you bring your capital and stuff to the table, they're able to add value by making sure the properties are managed well. And then DoorGrow, we're able to help them be able to do that so that they are able to not be a sucky property management company and that they're able to continually grow out the other arm of their portfolio. with their direct third party owners, but the best properties for property managers to manage that make the most sense would be their own. It would be something they have some sort of ownership stake in. ⁓ We've got a client, we've got a client in our program and he basically uses his property management business as a honey potter, flight, flight trapper, whatever you want to call it to just like people look at it and go, ⁓ he offers property management and they reach out to him and he convinces them to. Brian Seidensticker (09:52) Exactly. Jason Hull (10:14) sell him their properties and then he manages those. So which is some most of the portfolio he has ownership stake in. He just works deals out, you know. And so a lot of property managers leave a lot of money on the table because they're not even focused on building their own portfolio. They're helping just manage other people's portfolios. Brian Seidensticker (10:33) Right. Right. And I think that's you're exactly right. I think the best scenario for property managers is to manage their own portfolio. Right. And I think what we can allow, you know, property managers, partners, right, to do is think of acquisitions, you know, maybe where they didn't feel like that was an opportunity before. And so, you know, one recent example was a property manager working with in Mississippi who had an amazing opportunity to buy a couple of large multifamily buildings. And ⁓ she is a fantastic property manager, but didn't necessarily have all of the requirements that the bank wanted to see in order to take down underperforming. ⁓ One needed a full remodel, but the end goal is going to be a fantastic ⁓ asset to work on and to manage in the long run. And so we were able to partner on that. so That's like the perfect scenario that we're looking for is when somebody that is familiar with their market and familiar with the portfolios that are out there for sale or familiar with that, we want to be looked at as a partner that can help them either A, keep assets they already have under management, maybe moving from an owner that wants to sell and keep them in house, right? it makes sense. Maybe acquire assets in a little larger Jason Hull (11:32) Yeah. Brian Seidensticker (11:56) size than maybe they would typically be qualified for, right? The single family home is very different than a 44 unit multifamily, right? But the management of those two isn't wildly different, right? It just, the bank doesn't see, you know, the sponsor, right? And all the requirements the bank requires is wildly different, right? As far as the equity that you need to bring to the table. And those are the scenarios where it truly, I think, can be that win-win. Jason Hull (12:07) Yeah. Brian Seidensticker (12:25) Um, and, you know, long story short, Jason, that's exactly what we're looking for. Jason Hull (12:31) Awesome. So I think a question for those listening, because, you know, I love the story of the example you gave. Excuse my voice. I love that example. You know, we see it all the time. Property managers get big portfolios from some investor or they get an opportunity to get into a property in this scenario. They don't have the money to do it. So they have a partner like you that has access to capital. But then the next step is they need systems. And a lot of times they don't have the systems to be able to handle that level of growth. taking on another hundred units, another 200 units, like this starts to break some things in the business. So they're like, man, I need systems for hiring. I need systems for planning. I need systems for processes. And so at DoorGrowth, if you're listening and you want to grow fast, like we built a program around that called the Super System. those three systems, people planning a process. And when we get those things really well built out, those businesses become what I call infinitely scalable. So then they can work with somebody like you and just go crazy. They could just add lots of business, lots of doors, build things out. And if they're, if they're building equity as they're doing this, if they're taking ownership stake in this, that's even better. And so they're bringing deals to the table. You're bringing money to the table. Now, sometimes you're bringing money and a deal. It sounds like, but you need a property manager. Brian Seidensticker (14:00) Yes, right. that's the yes, there are certainly scenarios where we have assets we'd like to move into this model. And so having those ready made, hey, you know, we're looking for the partner, right, to take that that portfolio to the next level, right or next phase. But we're not just looking for any property manager to your exact point. And I think maybe Jason Hull (14:01) Thank Brian Seidensticker (14:23) speaking to the wrong audience, because I think anybody listening to this is already in the right mindset because they are thinking about how to grow. their business and how to learn, right, and how to have the right mindset, right? But a lot of problem managers out there, quite frankly, don't have that right mindset. And, you when you and I were speaking offline, Jason, it was like so many light bulbs were going off. And, you know, this was such a perfect scenario where, you know, for somebody to grow, they need lots of things, right? Capital is one, right? And flexible partners, one, which we can bring. Jason Hull (14:38) Yeah. Brian Seidensticker (14:59) but they're going to inevitably like any business, they're going to inevitably hit a ceiling where they, you know, they, they're limited, right? A limited typically by time, right? And that time can be, you know, re gained right by, like you said, people systems and, Jason Hull (14:59) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you buy time. Brian Seidensticker (15:17) Yeah, so it's a, how do you, but you need to, you need to be willing to implement those things in order to grow beyond that, you know, ceiling. And so it's having that right mindset. And I'd say most, if not everybody listening here already has what sounds like, you know, could be that mindset. ⁓ And that's where I thought I got really excited about how can we work more together with your, you your audience and your ⁓ really your members, the people that are implementing the systems that you have. That's the exact recipe that I feel like has such great potential for success. If you can't tell, I'm rather excited. Jason Hull (15:59) Yeah, I'm excited about it too because all of our clients want to build their portfolios. They all want to build equity. They want to build ownership stake. They want investments. They usually believe in the vehicle of investing. Otherwise, why would they be selling property management, which is selling that vehicle? so, ⁓ yeah, so I think it's a solid win-win-win for all three parties. And I'm excited to connect you with clients that I think would be good fit. How do you decide markets that make sense for you? So if property managers come to you and like, Brian, like, I want to get more doors. Like, let's get let's let's do some deals together. What markets would you say no to? You're like, this doesn't make sense. We aren't going to deploy capital into that state or that area. Brian Seidensticker (16:46) Yeah, it's probably easier to paint the picture of the hard nos, right? And then ⁓ maybe back into the areas because the hard nos are, I'd say in the general, very sought after, grade A rentals and markets where everyone wants to be is probably not exact fit for what we're looking for, right? Or the partnerships we're looking for. Jason Hull (16:55) Yes, let's do that. Brian Seidensticker (17:11) So where where do I mean? I would say that it breaks off most of California, most of New York, right? Most, you know, I'd say, you know, hot markets of even like where I'm from, ⁓ which is Western Montana. Unfortunately, this stone. Sorry, the show Yellowstone has totally ruined the market there as far as things at a rate that you could make a decent rental income. Jason Hull (17:14) an example. Really? Brian Seidensticker (17:37) from, right? And those are the areas where it just doesn't quite make sense. Right. And I'm looking at it from both our and right. The property manager's perspective. There's got to be enough meat on the bone for everybody. But if it's in a, I'll say a secondary tertiary market, right. So maybe not Austin directly downtown, but maybe around Austin, right. Where you can, you can, you can have at least 20 or more units up and running within a 12 month period, which is a pretty wide net. Right. Jason Hull (17:38) Yeah. And yeah. Brian Seidensticker (18:07) But then you can also have enough rent to say, loosely 1 % of the value of the property as a gross rental amount. And you can fit those two requirements as far as growth potential and rental income potential. And you have a need or an opportunity that can turn into an amazing ⁓ long-term hold scenario. Jason Hull (18:18) Yeah. Brian Seidensticker (18:36) I say that only because it doesn't have to be existing cash flow. can, that multifamily unit I talked about, right? ⁓ It's actually two buildings and one of the buildings is entirely empty, right? That's what, right? When it's done and stabilized, it will be an amazing opportunity to hold, right, in the long term. So anybody that's listening that says, man, I'm in the right market. Yeah, I can get the rate you're talking about. And I see those type of deals all day long, right? That's exactly who we want to talk to. Jason Hull (18:48) Okay. about, you know, there's areas like Florida right now where like the people cannot their rent rate is now dipped below mortgage rates in areas. You know, it doesn't make sense cash flow wise, but long term, it still may make sense. Brian Seidensticker (19:22) Yeah, think it really depends, right? Because we do some work in Florida, but the acquisition has to be ⁓ special, right? And so I can't say a hard no on all instances, but in most cases, it's going to be very, very difficult. And the cases where it makes a lot of sense is typically those scenarios where there's a lot of urgency to an acquisition because Jason Hull (19:31) Yeah. Thank Brian Seidensticker (19:46) The deal is here today, but it's not going to be there in two weeks. Right. And we can come to the table and say, okay, right. If, the numbers make a lot of sense, sure. We can close in two weeks. That's one of the things that we bring to the table is that flexibility from a capital standpoint. So it can work in Florida, but it's not going to work as well as it does in some other areas of like in Georgia, right. Or Ohio or Michigan or Indiana or Texas. Jason Hull (19:57) you Brian Seidensticker (20:14) Those are some areas that we've done a lot of partnerships in and want to do more. Jason Hull (20:19) Okay. So let's let's have you say a message to everybody that's listening because there's a lot of property managers that might hear this. My message to them is look, if your business stuff isn't tight, if you operationally right now, your capacity without having to hire a bunch of people or build out new systems, your capacity right now is 200 doors. You could add into the business in a short time period. That's healthy. If it's a hundred, then that's okay. If you say, we can handle another 50 units, that's bad. And that could happen very fast. If you, if you start growing, if we start helping you grow, if you get a BDM, anything, so you need to fix some things. assuming there's people listening that have a decent or a healthy capacity right now to grow their business. What would you, what would be your mess? What would be your message to them? Like, Hey, if your area is like this, then let's have a conversation. Brian Seidensticker (20:55) Mm-hmm. Jason Hull (21:19) Maybe go talk to Dorgo and get cleaned up, like, let's have a conversation. Maybe we can do some deals. Brian Seidensticker (21:25) Well, one of my requirements is we do want to scale on a significant level. And so one of the things that I'm asking everybody is almost a requirement. You need to be signed up through DoorGrow or something similar and not trying to solve all of those scale problems yourselves. And so if you're listening right now and you are already on board with DoorGrow, great, reach out to us directly. If you're listening right now and you aren't Jason Hull (21:31) Mm-hmm. Brian Seidensticker (21:52) signed up for DoorGrowl, right, or something similar, then I would request, right, that you do that, or at least be planning to do that, because that's going to be one of our requirements. Just, you know, trying to be straight with everybody out there right now. Jason Hull (22:07) OK, I I'm not going to complain about that. That sounds cool. So then your existing partners that you had before you met DoorGrow, some of them are probably going to start running into some scaling issues because you've got capital and you keep throwing property at them. So then maybe the idea is where DoorGrow is going to start helping them with some of that stuff then potentially. Brian Seidensticker (22:11) Hahaha! Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I'm not kidding where it's going to be a requirement where all of our property managers that we're working with are working with DoorGrow or something. don't even know if there's anything even remotely close to what DoorGrow provides, but they have to have some solution of enabling and helping them. The only one that comes to mind would be like a YPO, which is usually really large organizations or an EO, entrepreneurs organization that provide. Jason Hull (22:44) Yeah, I don't know either. Yeah. Brian Seidensticker (22:57) resources that help you get beyond. if you have none of that, you're going to, and I'm just speaking from experience, right? I didn't have that. Um, and that ceiling that stood there for almost four or five years felt impossible to break through unless you have those, those, um, those resources available to you. Um, and so it may sound, you know, like a weird requirement, but, uh, trust me, we're, we're both going to be a lot happier in that. Jason Hull (23:16) Yeah. Brian Seidensticker (23:25) partnership if you're willing to take that leap and make that a part of our joint plan going forward. Jason Hull (23:33) Yeah, I'm not the only property management coach out there. I think I'm biased, but I'm the best ⁓ and our company is the best. Sarah, my wife, also amazing. Like we're the best, I think, in the world. And you don't have to work with DoorGro, but you got to work with somebody. I agree. I was that guy that thought I knew everything in the beginning, trying to get my business to grow, struggling, struggling to pay team members, struggling to make cash flow. Like, you know, that's early stage entrepreneurism. And eventually I realized, ⁓ I could go a lot faster with a mentor in any money I spent on a decent mentor. I made back 10 times that usually. So it was like the eventually became the biggest no brainer ever. I'm like, let's spend six figures on coaches and mentors annually. Like, let's just, if we make a little bit of progress and it feeds my addiction to learning. you know, so I've always got multiple coaches and mentors going at any given time and. And yeah, I love learning, but it also allows me to be able to facilitate and turn around and benefit others, which I also just really love and enjoy doing. OK, so let's say you've got some people that are their business is ready to grow. They've got the things to scale ⁓ and they think their market has growth potential and income potential. Then ⁓ then those. That's the ideal. You want those people to reach out and everyone's going to start making some money together. Brian Seidensticker (25:05) Yes, exactly. Right. So if you're again, you know, if you're listening to this, you probably already have that right mindset. So you're partially already there. Right. If you've got a market that you feel meets those rough requirements that I laid out, if you already are planning to engage, you know, door grow or some similar organization that you've found on your own and you can check those three boxes, then ⁓ Yeah, you can check us out. can go to lastbestpartners.com, but reach out through that contact page and just mention, saw Brian on Jason's podcast. I'd like to talk to him more. That would be fantastic. Jason Hull (25:46) So let's make this crystal clear for those that maybe they're newer, that maybe they are just property managers. They're not super seasoned in investments. Explain just one more time, what are you looking for market wise? Brian Seidensticker (26:00) So there needs to be the potential, right, within 12 months of getting to 20 or more units, right? There's really no maximum. ⁓ In one market, we've got... Jason Hull (26:11) This is just like new construction builds is kind what you're talking about or. Brian Seidensticker (26:15) Well, we've done new construction in some markets, right? We've done full remodels and others, right? We've bought ⁓ existing cash flowing, know, multifamily distressed assets, right? Meaning that, you know, the seller was in a very distressed state. We've done all three of those. And so ⁓ you don't have to have a very specific model. are, you know, our requirements are the cash flow. peace, right? The, the mindset piece, right? And that ultimately when we leave the conversation, we both feel like it's going to be a win-win partnership because the, the hard, I it's not a requirement, right? But the hard thing to express here, right? Or say you're definitely in is it really comes down to, ⁓ we look at a partnership. It's just like a marriage, right? ⁓ you really need to both have a lot of comfort going into that because, ⁓ breaking up a partnership is as painful, if not more painful in some cases than a divorce, right? ⁓ And so we're definitely gonna be able to get to that conclusion right after we meet and talk through some stuff. ⁓ And so if you're listening right now and you're like, don't know if I like this guy, Brian, well, chances of us getting along the long run probably ⁓ minimal. But if you're, hey, I kinda like what Brian's listed, he sounds like a reasonable guy, I'm a reasonable person too. We should chat, right? Then that's exactly who we want to talk to. Jason Hull (27:45) Got it. So worst case scenario, if you're listening to this, you're a property management business owner. You would like to get a bunch of doors fed to you, but not just doors for you to manage. You'll get that and you'll be, you you're not managing for free. You're going to get man management, but you want to get investments. Like you want to build equity and, whatever. Then, ⁓ this may, it may be worth talking to Brian, having a conversation and, ⁓ and then. You know, if you're listening to this and you're struggling in your business, you like want to have capacity, you're getting your burnt out currently, you want systems, you want to figure out growth, which is not a hard problem to figure out and just getting some doors locally, third party or whatnot, then reach out to reach out to us at DoorGrowth. So how can they reach you, Brian? Brian Seidensticker (28:36) Well, the easiest thing is go to lastbestpartners.com. There's a contact link there. Reach out. It goes to me and my right-hand person. So you'll be speaking to one of the two people that you eventually talk to anyway. And that way, you'll get a reply as quick as possible. Jason Hull (28:57) Awesome. Cool. Anything else you wanted to add before we wrap up? Brian Seidensticker (29:01) No, I guess, you know, on the on the topic of what are we not looking for? So if you're if you're listening right now and you're like, you know, I might be able to use them, but I got I got capital. I don't need them. I am at five hundred units. You know, why would I want to then don't. Jason Hull (29:06) Yeah. Brian Seidensticker (29:19) It's fine, right? You've got the running solution. That's not the type of partnership that I think will be successful for both of us. And so kudos to those that have got to that point. ⁓ But I guess no need to reach out to us to try and find something that may not be there. Jason Hull (29:39) Got it, yeah, awesome. Cool, well anybody listening, if you've ever felt stuck or stagnant, you wanna take your business to next level, check us out at doorgrow.com. For a free training on how to get unlimited leads for free, text the word leads to 512-648-4608. Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners by going to doorgrowclub.com. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas, and to learn about our offers, subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe on whatever channel you saw this on and leave us a review. We would really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye, everyone.

DGS 335: Mission, Clarity, and Leadership Under Pressure

When building a business, have you ever felt like working harder should be the answer, but the more you push, the more exhausted, misaligned, or stuck you become? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, Jason Hull sits down with Sean Patton, former U.S. Army Special Forces Commander, executive coach, and leadership speaker, to unpack what entrepreneurs can learn from military leadership, self-leadership, and mission-driven culture. They discuss the dangers of hustle without recovery, why so many business owners never learn to lead themselves, and how clarity of mission, roles, and outcomes can transform the way a team operates. Jason and Sean also explore why the military is far more collaborative than most people assume, how strong leaders facilitate input without losing ownership, and why mission dictates culture in both combat and business. Along the way, they dive into personal purpose, team alignment, trust in sales, and the mindset shifts required to build a business that creates both impact and freedom instead of burnout. You'll Learn (00:00) Introduction and Guest Background (01:15) Sean Patton's Military and Entrepreneurial Journey (04:16) Leadership in Difficult Situations: Military vs. Business (08:29) Dispelling Myths About Military Leadership (10:35) Collaborative Decision-Making in Special Forces (12:56) The Role of Extreme Ownership in Leadership (16:08) Culture as a Mission-Driven Concept (19:16) Aligning Mission, Culture, and Outcomes (20:51) The Power of Mission and Vision in Business (25:41) The Why Behind Business Success (29:24) The Entrepreneurial Hierarchy of Needs (35:19) Applying Military Clarity to Business Operations (37:31) The Importance of Clear Roles and Responsibilities (41:37) Closing Remarks and Contact Information Quotables "Leadership isn't a title, it's a person you become." "Sometimes the loudest voice in the room isn't the smartest voice in the room." "Mission dictates culture." Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/courses/mastermind] DoorGrow Academy [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/] DoorGrow on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1mGYT2Sw0LOe32hO_QdNg/featured] DoorGrowClub [https://doorgrow.com/] DoorGrowLive [https://doorgrowlive.com/] Transcript Jason Hull (00:01) Five, four, three, two, one. All right. Welcome everybody to the DoorGro show. I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGro, the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. For over a decade and a half, we've brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now, let's get into the show. All right, so I have an awesome guest today. I'm hanging out here with Sean Patton. Welcome, Sean. I'm going to brag about you a little bit. Thanks for being here. Sean Patton (00:53) Yeah, alright, you go for it. Thanks for having me, man. Jason Hull (00:54) All right. All right. So Sean is a former U.S. Army Special Forces Commander, Meta Performance Executive Coach at Novus Global and a leadership keynote speaker. Sean helps leaders accomplish seemingly impossible and thrilling visions through transformation. This is your bio. As a former U.S. Army Special Forces Commander, Sean brings a rare combination of battlefield tested leadership, real world business ownership. and success back to human performance principles to every stage and coaching session. His work is grounded in one belief, leadership isn't a title, it's a person you become. As an ICF certified executive coach, host of the No Limit Leadership Podcast and author of A Warrior's Mindset, The Six Keys to Greatness. Awesome. Sean, so glad to have you here. Welcome to the show. Sean Patton (01:48) Thanks, man. I'm excited to be here. Jason Hull (01:50) Cool. So Sean, for those listening, I'd love for them to get a little bit of background on you. I gave a little bio, but tell them a little bit about how did you get into entrepreneurism? When did you wake up and go, hey, you know what? I'm an entrepreneur. Sean Patton (02:04) Well, it took a little bit. was maybe a little late to the game. I originally went from a small town in Kansas. I went to the United States Military Academy at West Point, graduated and then spent 10 years as an active duty officer in the army. So I was an infantry officer and then a special forces officer in the special forces group commanding two different Green Beret attachments. So it was a busy time. I feel like I crammed a lifetime of leadership lessons into those 14 years, right? Like West Point is most intense leadership training that our nation has. And then, you know, was a rifle platoon leader and sniper platoon leader in Iraq. Then I was an Afghanistan with my team. So I was doing really difficult things and complex things with elite performing teams. And, you know, despite all of that and 22 months in combat and 30 months to point overseas, I was never really the gun guy or the gear guy. Uh, it was all, it always about the people and the problems that we were solving. And so in 2015, a little before that, I decided that I was going to get out of the military in transition. And I just had this entrepreneurship itch that I wanted to scratch. Plus, you know, I want to check out with this freedom thing that I had been hearing about all these years was all about. And so I decided to try it and. Jason Hull (03:04) Yeah. Yeah. Sean Patton (03:31) It was a rocky start. I had a lot of, I think I had some strengths coming out of the military and those experiences, but also some real gaps. And one of them was a, I think my risk tolerance was so high from things I had been doing. then also Jason Hull (03:33) Yeah. Yeah. Sean Patton (03:59) The answer in the military so often, at least in the units I was in was when things got hard, right? When the, when the darkness came, when it seemed like the weight was unmanageable, the answer was just go harder. Like, you know, like the mission is going to end, you're going to redeploy, like you, know, the sun's going to come up, just keep going, keep going, keep going. And what I didn't appreciate was when you get into the entrepreneurship space is that in the military, even in those units, there was this like, Jason Hull (04:11) Okay, yeah. Yeah. Sean Patton (04:28) mechanism around us almost protecting us. Like they had honed us into this machine that could push ourselves to these extreme limits. But they told us when it was time to turn it off and when it was time to refit and when it was time to recover. And then I got in entrepreneur space and when things got difficult and you know, I made some really bad financial decisions which we can get into and all of that. I found myself with all of that weight with the only answer I had was just go harder. Jason Hull (04:52) Yeah. Yeah. Sean Patton (04:59) And so three years later, I was in the hospital ⁓ and I had stress hives and my appendix almost burst and all these health issues and going through my first bankruptcy or my only bankruptcy, but bankruptcy after three years. And so it was a rough start to the whole thing. I had to learn a lot of lessons about myself in that. Jason Hull (05:07) Wow. Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, early stage entrepreneurism, there's some similar patterns I've noticed because, you know, I've talked to thousands of entrepreneurs. I've gone through this sort of journey. in the beginning, yeah, we do a lot of stupid stuff. Like we make mistakes and that's part of learning. You know, we believe weird things like I just like your first hire should be a clone of yourself. If I could just clone myself, I call it the clone myth. Like we believe like You know, we think we can do everything ourselves. it'd be cheaper if I just figure out how to do it myself. If I just read the right book, watch the right YouTube video. And so we do dumb stuff like we don't get support. We don't get help. We don't get mentors. like it. had to things had to get really hard before I started getting mentors, getting help, getting coaches, getting support. And I had to be humble, you know, before I was willing to do that. And. And yeah, and so I see, I see this, you know, a lot of people play out this journey and then early stage as an entrepreneur. Yeah. We're, we're, it's almost like the hustle's glamorized. And so we go through this process of like, I got a hustle. I got to work harder. That's what you do if you own a company, if you're a CEO, if you're a boss. And so you just burn yourself out. I remember I was at end of a sales call trying to wrap it up. I was in so much pain because I like I think I'd slipped some sort of disc or was bulging in my back. And I was like by the end of the call and doing this call, I was laying on the floor and I ended the call and I was like, and I was in so much pain. I wasn't able to work and had to lay down for like two weeks. Yeah. And then I realized because I hadn't been eating, I'd been just working. hadn't been sleeping. Sean Patton (07:04) my gosh. Jason Hull (07:11) very well, I'd been just working. I thought I just need to work harder, work faster. And I didn't realize that probably I was like probably operating at like 10 % of my effectiveness mentally. I was being stupid. And I thought, I just need to work harder, I gotta hustle. And I wasn't taking care of myself. And then that's when I realized, if I don't take care of my body, I don't have a vehicle to achieve stuff or to get results. And I'm not even really present. Sean Patton (07:23) Thank Jason Hull (07:40) when I'm there with people because I'm hungry and I'm tired and I'm I'm everywhere else and I haven't even produced the, or my brain hasn't had a chance to clean itself like it does every night. And I haven't gotten food to fuel my brain. I don't have all the chemicals my brain needs. I'm lacking dopamine and serotonin and GABA and like, I'm just, I'm an absolute mess, right? And I see people do this all the time, all the time. Sean Patton (08:05) It's so true. I, in my lens, how I look through that is through a leadership lens. And I learned in the military so many great things about leading others. And as I look back at it, what I had to learn in entrepreneurship, what you're kind of talking about is like, I never really had to master leading myself. Jason Hull (08:31) Yeah. Sean Patton (08:32) I never had to look at myself as like, how am going to lead myself? Cause the way you mentioned there, like I would never treat one of my soldiers or one of my employees or have an expectation of them the way I was, I was treating myself. And so it's like, how would you. Jason Hull (08:41) Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't do I wouldn't I wouldn't push my spouse to be like this. I'd be like, hey, come on, clean more. Work harder. Do this. Right. Yeah. Then marriage would be over real fast. I wouldn't like I wouldn't do that to my kids. Come on, go. Yeah. But to ourselves, we can sometimes be a cruel leader. Right. Can you dispel a myth? Because, you know, I got I kind of got a sense of this. I've never been in the military. And God bless you. Thank you for your service. I appreciate that. Sean Patton (08:55) Yeah. Jason Hull (09:15) ⁓ but I've realized I've been listening to, ⁓ Chaka Willa, Willick and Leaf, whatever their, their book, ⁓ the dichotomy of leadership. And I had this belief that in the military, I think a lot of people maybe that haven't been involved in it have this perception. Military, just, you either give orders or you take orders. It's rigid. There's no thinking. You just were told what to do. And, ⁓ you know, I've kind of gotten a very different picture of that. that there's a lot of decisions and there's planning and know, this is lives are on the line and it's painted a very different picture. Can you just touch on that? Cause I think some people here, you've got this background in the military and to you, it's just, you know this stuff cause you had lived it. But for those that have never been in the military, what advantage did that give you in business and how is that different that maybe people perceive it? Sean Patton (10:09) It's a great question. I do think that there is this idea from either whether it's like movies about basic training or, you know, the, or, know, about like submarines. Yeah. You just shut up and go. Right. And, know, there is in basic training or when you're, I would say when you're being transformed from a free citizen to a soldier, there is a bit of a breaking down of Jason Hull (10:16) in movies. Yeah. You blindly follow and you're told what to do. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Sean Patton (10:39) some of that, that needs to come back. But then as you build that foundation of like, when it's time to go, I go ⁓ and I have some discipline and I can, can integrate with the unit, let's say. ⁓ Then you start getting more and more responsibility. And especially as you move up in the military, you become, I mean, it's not that long, like two or three years later, even the regular military, regular army, you're going to be a team leader. So you're going to be a leader. And a of those kids are like 20, 19, and they're in charge of three people. And so they're no longer just like, it would make no sense to have someone to stand here and like, what do I need to do? This is what need to do. ⁓ That's not, not, that wouldn't like, that doesn't work in a company and that wouldn't work in a unit. And so there needs to be input on each side. And then especially when you get into like the Navy SEALs, like Jaco was talking about, or in a special forces team. mean, the planning, I was a facilitator of mission plan. Jason Hull (11:11) Yeah. Yeah. Sean Patton (11:38) but I was by no means the smartest person in the room and it was a very collaborative experience. And so my job as the commander of a 12 man special forces ODA was to receive the mission that we had been given. And that mission doesn't come down and tell us this is how you're going to do it. It says, here's the effect we need to have in the area. Here's the questions we have. And then it was up for us to sit down and I had, you know, I have a warrant officer who's Jason Hull (11:43) Hmm. Sean Patton (12:08) trained in human intelligence to a level of a CIA operative. I have an intelligence officer or an intelligence sergeant who does the same work the NSA does. My average age on my team is 30 years old, people with multiple combat experiences. I remember one time I was in Lebanon and one of my younger soldiers, Greenbright, we were talking about why there was this conflict going on and how we were trying to influence it. And I said, well, you know, it's probably because of this rift between this Hezbollah and the Shia sect and the Sunni sect of Muslims in the area. And, you my 26 year old soldier is like, actually, sir, that's incorrect. This conflict in the Becca Valley actually goes back hundreds of years. It's actually over like water rights. mean, like that's the level of conversation we're having in the planning session. And it is very much a collaborative Jason Hull (13:00) Yeah. Sean Patton (13:07) ⁓ discussion and we come up with multiple courses of action, but here's, I will say where it kind of converges to, ⁓ the lesson that comes from the military and maybe an issue, this is where the people maybe have this misconception, but I think it's an important one for when it comes to the, company is that at the end of the day, kind of go back to Jaco's first bunk on book, honestly, extreme ownership, has to be someone in charge as the commander is my dis Jason Hull (13:11) Yeah. Sean Patton (13:35) was my decision. was like, okay, I've heard everyone's input. We're going with, this is how we're going to do that. And immediately, because everyone had given their input, even if we didn't pick what their choice was, it was, okay, Roger that. Now we're going to execute that as if it was our own. And so that level of ownership when it comes to planning and execution is where we turn and say, okay, now we're on the same page. the rich discussion and input that happens before that is an important job. And that's why I think whether it's in the military or in the civilian world, as a leader of an organization like that, you need to be a master facilitator. It's not your ideas. It's how can we be the composer of the group in front of us? And if someone is taking over, how do we calm them down? How do we... Jason Hull (14:20) Yes, yeah. Sean Patton (14:31) recognize when someone's voice is being stomped out and their valuable input isn't being contributed. You know, like how do you handle that and get the idea so that the best concept comes to the top and then get buy-in to execute. Jason Hull (14:37) Bye. I mean, what I'm hearing is like, you know, this picture you're painting is you've got this team of specialists. They each bring some value and some wisdom and some knowledge to the table. They're experts at this one particular craft. They see everything through a different lens and you're getting feedback from all these different lenses. And then as a leader, you have to decide which things are valid, which things do we incorporate? And, know, and it's up to each individual that's a specialist to really put some pressure on the leader to say, this is significant, this is important. And it's up to the leader to make sure that, you know, maybe that quieter voice, but to recognize what is significant if they're not making it present, because sometimes the loudest voice in the room isn't the smartest voice in the room. And so, yeah, so that's fascinating. And, business is a lot like that, but a lot of business owners, they don't even run their teams like that. They think it's a dictatorship. They mistakenly think that's how the military works. They're like, I'm the dictator and I have all the best ideas and I'm smarter than all of you. And they do, they end up as the emperor with no clothes. Cause everybody in the team were like, yes boss, we don't want to get fired. Sean Patton (15:56) Absolutely. And that's why I think that the, main job of, let's say that entrepreneur, that business owner, that even commander, right. Is your job is to craft the vision of what you're trying to create. And yes, the outcome and clarity of outcome, clarity of vision of why does this company, why do we exist and what impact are we trying to have in the world? And once people are bought into that and aligned on that. Jason Hull (16:09) The outcome, clarity of outcome. Okay. Sean Patton (16:26) then we can have a great and rich discussion on the how, the strategy. Jason Hull (16:30) Got it. that, you know, that's, so now we're talking about culture, right? Which is the foundation before we get into tactics, we have to have culture and the military, you have all kind of chosen into a particular culture. There's a set of beliefs and that's a foundation. It's kind of like, you might maybe even take it for granted, but the military has that and a lot of businesses don't. They don't have that set culture where it's defined. Sean Patton (16:57) So can I, what I will say is that this is true in the military and I'll give you some military examples just because they're maybe interesting to your audience and then we can talk business is that mission dictates culture. So, know, for example, you might have, you know, especially a lot of the movies, right? You see like the Marines, That's stereotypical. We'll be super stereotypical right now. Marines mission, their core mission is secure the beach to land ships. Jason Hull (17:04) Yeah, I love this. Yeah. Yeah, OK. Mm-hmm. Okay. Sean Patton (17:27) So if you notice, are a bit like, just go get in line, full frontal assault, you're getting off ships on an uncovered area and you're just massive violence of action. That's how you win that battle, okay? So they need to have a certain kind of mentality and I'm generous. Okay. A special forces team will operate by, with and through an indigenous force. So we're a US sponsored insurgent. we've got, I will go on target with. Jason Hull (17:42) Yes. Sean Patton (17:54) 10 Americans and 300 Afghani commandos. Like that dictates a certain mission, right? And so ⁓ the difference between the Marines and then maybe the Navy SEALs who are operating and their job is to take over a ship underway with 30 SEALs that all live together, work together. They know each other in their ear, like synchronize their precise, you know, cause you've got to be right. You're, you're firing weapons inside of a ship corridor. Like Jason Hull (17:57) Okay. Yeah. Sean Patton (18:23) You have to be so precise. I can't do that on the ground with 300 Afghanis running around. I'm just like guns pointed this way. You know, like we've got to you've to be much more flexible and and how you plan that and how you think about success and all that is a different animal than the Marines who are on you're trying to storm a beach together. A SEAL team is operating with 30 people who've worked closely together and then. where you've got 12 of us trying to work by with and through a different unit to do a different thing. Like the culture inside each one of those units would be completely different. In the Marines, you might have a bit more like go here, do that. Yes, sir. How, how jump high, jump faster. You know, you might need that because that's you need to storm a beach. You made, you need very precise, very black and white, right? And wrong, like precision to take down a ship with 30 people. you need to be very clear about larger intent and what is the big thing we're trying to operate here and how do we control sort of an uncontrollable mass and chaos to operate a Green Break team. If you took the culture of each one of those, if you gave that mission to a bunch of Marines who are just like, where do I go? Where do need to blow up? And you're trying to like do a sensitive political operation with 300 indigenous, it would be a disaster. Jason Hull (19:29) Yeah. Sean Patton (19:46) And if you tried to set the precision of, cause we tried to do this sometimes, like you would work with an indigenous force. If you tried to set the precision and standard of a US special operator, whether it's a SEAL or a Green Beret on this indigenous force, you drive yourself crazy. Like it's not going to happen. All right. And so all of those different units have different missions. And so they all have different cultures. And to your point on your company, if you're not clear on missions, If you're not clear on the vision and like why you exist and what you're trying to do, you will end up chasing your tail on culture because you'll just start grabbing like every other leadership book and culture. just like, what about this works here? This works here. This works here. Instead of saying, what are we trying to accomplish and what is the optimal culture for our mission set? Jason Hull (20:36) I love that. Yeah, one of our guiding documents at DoorGrow is our, we call it our client-centric mission statement. And it talks about who we want to serve in detail, how we will help them, what our goal is, our plan, and then what kind of the long-term sort of vision that maybe we'll never achieve, but it's the goal we're striving for. And this is what we coach our clients on getting defined because it creates culture. Then we have our how we do things. That's the company core values. And then we get into personal why statements for the business owner, business why statements. Creating all of this is, we call this the culture materials. There's like six key elements that I coach them on getting in place that help kind of make the culture visible to everybody on the team. And you're right, mission dictates culture. I love this idea because the mission of the business which most people mistakenly think is just to make money, is actually to provide some sort of value and to solve a real problem in the marketplace. And that mission, whether you're good at it or not, and the team are conscious of it or not, and you're focused on it or not, dictates whether or not you have good culture that actually achieves outcomes. That makes a lot of sense. Sean Patton (21:53) Yeah, absolutely. Cause yeah, I love that you have that structure and I love how you also tied that down to personal why statements because this is another leadership issue that I see with a lot of entrepreneurs. We're big companies, honestly too, is that there is this assumption that you've accepted this job description and here's what matters to the company and therefore what matters to maybe me as your leader or boss or the division or the company is also the most important thing to you as an individual or like the reason you're here is not really explored. So I think one of the most critical conversations you can have, and it sounds like you have a structured format for that, which is fantastic, is just sitting down with each member of your team, like, why are you here? What matters to you? Because often, right, I'm sure you've had this, I've had employees where you assume a salesperson, the most important thing is compensation, right? It's how much money you can make. And that's great. Maybe it is, but then it's actually like, well, yeah, that's important. And also, you know, my, my youngest is a senior in high school and this is the last baseball season we have with, and man, the games start at four and it's so hard for me to get to games at four because you have me work till five. And it's like, if I could just make those baseball games, that would be amazing. And then all of sudden, Once you know like what matters to them and why they're doing this, then you can adjust and say, cool, how do we align what matters to you? What your personal why statement as you mentioned it and the company why statement. And now you've got alignment. And when you align those two things where what matters most to them contributes to what matters most to the company, you just, create transformative effects. Jason Hull (23:36) Thank Yeah, the big challenge I've noticed, the biggest transformation I can get is to help the business owner get clear on their why. Because when the business owner isn't clear on why they do what they do, they end up doing the wrong things in the business. Because you're the business owner, you can do anything in the business. And so some business owners are like, well, I have to do the accounting. I'm the business owner. Do you really? If you hate accounting, you probably shouldn't be doing the accounting. You're not the right personality fit for that, which means you're actually probably not the best person to do that. So some business owners love sales. Some love accounting. Some hate it. Some love operations. Some are really bad at that. And so if we can get clear on their personal why, and then we can look at their role and see if their role is helping align with that, we can then reorganize the entire business. But most business owners, the first team they build is they transition from solopreneur to having a team. I find is a mess. The first team they have is built around the wrong person. And it's kind of like they're like, I'm this shape puzzle piece, but it's not really them. They're like, I'm doing accounting. I'm doing this and a little bit this. And then they're like, now I'm going to get team members. I'm going to puzzle pieces around this misshapen puzzle piece. And they fit that puzzle piece, but that's not even me. So I hate being in it. I'm uncomfortable in my own business. In property management, this is where they get to two to 400 doors. call it the second sand trap or the team sand trap. They've made it through that transition of finally having a team from being a solopreneur and they're the most miserable they've ever been in their business. And adding more doors makes their life personally worse, not better. Because adding more doors just means they're working harder. They're doing more work instead of getting the right support and the right team, because they didn't build the right team around the right person from the beginning. So if I get them clear on their why, They're like, my gosh, I'm a circle. I'm not a square. I need to build this whole different team around me. And then like when I got clarity on this many years ago, I think within a month I had fired like half my team. I changed everything. I changed the type of clients I was willing to work with. I changed my business model. Like I didn't want to tolerate certain things anymore because you know, I woke up one morning and I was like, I would rather stream Netflix and avoid growing my business. even though I need money, then deal with the clients I'm dealing with at that time. I'm like, why is this so, why am I so out of alignment? Then I saw Simon's the next start with why, like presentation on the golden circle, why, how, what? And I was like, what? And I'm like, ⁓ what's my why? And so I went to, I've like, I need to figure this out. And my personal why is to inspire others to love true principles. What that means is I love finding the better way to do things. I love learning what works. and sharing it with other people, I would do that for free for fun. If you're listening to this podcast, I'm doing it for free for fun right now. Like I love this. I love learning what's working for other people. And then I get to turn around and share that with clients and I get paid to do that. That's crazy. And that's the role I get to live in my business. And so my business, it feeds me my why. Sean Patton (26:47) Yeah, it's all true. Jason Hull (26:55) And so our why statement of door goes to transform property management, business owners and their businesses. So we get to create transformation. Everybody on my team buys into this vision. We all celebrate when our clients are winning. And so that's the culture we've created in the business. That's our mission, transformation. And we know if we transform the business owner, we transform the business. We transform the business, we transform the team. We transform the business and the team. We transform hundreds, maybe thousands of tenants and rental property owners lives. There's this ripple effect and that's exciting to me. We're having impact, right? And so the thing I can get on a sales call and confidently say to a property management business owner, here's why you should trust me because if I'm selfish in getting what I want out of life, my why, my business is going to give you what you need and you are going to win. And we can always trust motives. And so I call that the golden bridge. The golden bridge is find out the prospects why. Sean Patton (27:31) Yeah. Jason Hull (27:54) and you build a bridge to it, the bridge is the business. It's what gives you both what you want. That's where the deal happens. And there's my why, there's the prospect's why, the business why is what connects us. And that's the golden bridge. And if I can relate that formula verbally, all the objections drop by the wayside, because the only real objection is, I don't trust you. If they're like, what about these features? And what do you do with my property? And what do you do? How do you handle evictions? All they're saying is blah, blah, blah, I don't trust you yet. And so that's, I just teach my clients the golden bridge formula and that we have, and then they become great at selling because sales is about trust. That's it. Sean Patton (28:35) Yeah, I love that, ⁓ that framework. And also I want to call out an important mindset shift that I know I struggled with. And I think a lot of other owners struggle with it. You mentioned there, which is this belief that if we're not suffering, Jason Hull (28:57) ⁓ yeah. It's like suffering's a badge of honor in entrepreneurism. Sean Patton (29:02) Yeah, like if we had, if we're actually enjoying what we're doing, if we're having time off, if we're like, you mentioned, we're taking care of ourselves and we're like inspired and energetic and it doesn't feel that hard, we must be doing something wrong or being lazy or we're not doing enough. And so then we're like constantly pushing ourselves to this point of, uh, I need to be overwhelmed. I need to be, and when things are going well, we'll crash the plane. Jason Hull (29:11) ⁓ yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sean Patton (29:30) just so we can feel the pain again, so we feel like we're being productive. And so I love the fact that you, sounds like you sort of, we're running into that or identified that. And now the shift that it sounds like you've made around your mindset is like, what if this could be fun? Jason Hull (29:32) Yeah. Yeah. What if you actually love doing what you were doing in your business? I'll tell you what happens because I hope a lot of people do this. You make way more money when you focus on the money instead of the mission and you're not focused on your why you make way less money. But it's money is easy when you are focused on helping people get what they want. You're outward focus and it's you're being selfish enough to focus on your actual purpose. Money is not your purpose. If I say, do you want money? There's a whole level of depth beneath that. Right. And so, yeah, but you're right. Like we're struggling, we're suffering, and it's like a badge of honor. Look at my hustle culture. And I'm like, it's so hard. And then we start succeeding and we get, the world gives us feedback because the world isn't supportive of entrepreneurs. The world cares about safety and certainty more than freedom. Entrepreneurs care about freedom and fulfillment more. Sean Patton (30:24) Yes. Jason Hull (30:48) than safety and security. And that's why we start businesses. That's a risk. But as soon as we start winning, what do we hear from people? ⁓ it must be nice. Sean Patton (31:00) Yeah. Jason Hull (31:01) it must be nice that you have this. Jason got his cyber truck or he's in his million dollar house. It must be nice. ⁓ know, and so you hear things like this and you're like, did I do something wrong? maybe I need to be small because I'm making some people feel uncomfortable because, know, it's to be a struggle. I can't show that I'm having success because it's got to be hard. I didn't I didn't work hard enough to earn this. Maybe it's that feeling or, know, it has to Sean Patton (31:20) Yeah. Or enjoyment, yeah, it's gotta be. Yeah, I think there's a lot of that. I know my relationship as I've reflected back with, with money, um, with success is, know, I grew up with a, with a single mom and she was phenomenal. I mean, raised me, worked full time as a waitress and bar center to put herself through undergrad and grad school to be a school psychologist, to work with special needs kids so that she could impact the world and take care of me. But in that, yeah. Yeah. Jason Hull (31:31) Hard. Yeah. And love was working hard. That's what you saw. Like she was hustling. You knew she loved you. She was serving. Yeah. Sean Patton (32:02) Absolutely. And so I would say there's two sides of that coin. One, what I tell people all the time is like, when you see your mom do that or that's your leader, like mediocrity is no longer acceptable. That's one thing I took away from it. then the, but there was this idea when we say we drove through nice neighborhoods or we saw big houses or we saw people with money. was like, ⁓ those it's like those people. Like it was very much put into, I feel like subconsciously that Jason Hull (32:10) Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Sean Patton (32:31) I think that it was just a matter of like, ⁓ there's this idea of that good people or hardworking, working class folks like us, we're doing sort of this noble thing and these other people either just got lucky or they're just different or they were born into it or, it's this idea of like, we're not those people. Jason Hull (32:49) Or even worse, were unethical or hurt people to get there. Those rich people, those evil billionaires and those evil millionaires, and nobody should have that kind of money. They must have hurt people to get there and yeah, yeah, yeah. Sean Patton (32:54) 100 exactly. And so that was like a story, even a money story and success story that over the last 10 years as an entrepreneur with different businesses, and I was, and I was as a coach of leaders inside companies, ⁓ and, business owners that I've had to overcome. And I have found myself to your point, sort of sabotaging or questioning when I do have certain levels of success or impact and downplaying it almost because I have this. Jason Hull (33:17) Yeah. Sean Patton (33:34) subconscious belief that like, wait a if I make this amount of money or if I get to do these things is like, am I, as you said, am I deserving of that? Or is that even like an ethical thing to be able to do? I need to suffer more and drive myself back to the suffering conversation. Jason Hull (33:40) Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the feedback we get from the world as entrepreneurs. So one of my frameworks is the four, I call it the four reasons for starting a business. The first reason is fulfillment in life. That should be primary. We should be getting fulfillment in life, living our why, living our purpose. Number two, it should be more and more freedom. The business should give us more and more freedom. Now, we initially as entrepreneurs, when we start our journey, we make more and more money. And the reason we want more money is we think it will give us more fulfillment and more freedom. But the default is, I've seen this over and over again, I live this, is we make more and more money and we have less fulfillment and freedom in our business initially. Until we get clear on this, because we're aiming for the wrong goal, we're aiming for money, not the four reasons. Once we have fulfillment and freedom though, once we figure that out, we're like, why am I doing this? I need to shift things. And we get alignment there, then we want to benefit others. That's contribution. And that's actually why businesses exist. Businesses exist to contribute to the marketplace something of value, solve real problems. Otherwise, they're just snake oil and they're stealing people's money. And so true entrepreneurs, like they might start with just the motive of money, which maybe isn't the highest motive. But if they're going to be successful, eventually they graduate usually to contribution. because that's the only thing that actually works in the marketplace. The marketplace is brutal to anything else. So it's almost like God tricks us into becoming good people by getting us to start businesses, you know? And so the fourth reason, once we have contribution, we have fulfillment, freedom, we get to, we're living a life where we feel like we're benefiting others, making a difference. And we love, we can't have those first three without the fourth, which is support. There's no, Sean Patton (35:22) Yeah, yeah. Jason Hull (35:41) business owner that I know of that enjoys doing every hat, wearing every hat in their own business. And so we have to have a good team. We have to have a good support. Just like you were talking about in the, in the military, like if you're going on a mission, you need some specialists that have expertise in different areas to make this work. Not everybody has the same personality, the same skills, the same intellectual abilities. And so we need other people if we want to stay in those first three. We can't have fulfillment, freedom and contribution if we're doing stuff we don't enjoy. That's the opposite. And so we have to have team members. And that's why we build the vehicle of a business instead of just be a freelancer and do it all on our own. And that's the, so those are my four reasons. Now there is the fifth reason. The fifth reason is what everybody else wants. And we want this too as entrepreneurs, but the fifth reason is safety and security. This is what makes us different. Everybody else on the planet wants all five of these things. But most people on the planet play safety and security first. They're like, forget your freedom. We saw this during the pandemic. It's like, fuck your freedom. Like, we don't care about your freedom. I want to feel safe. Make everyone feel safe. Force it on everybody. Make everybody feel safe first. And then freedom would be a really nice afterthought. And then entrepreneurial people were like, this what crazy planet am I on? Sean Patton (37:04) Mm-hmm. Jason Hull (37:08) Am I hanging out with aliens? Like, I don't understand. I thought we were in the land of the free home of the brave here in the US and like, what's going on? And we have all these different basic hierarchy of needs, but the hierarchy is different for entrepreneurs versus everybody else. And there's nothing wrong with that. Like I need people on my team that don't want to be the business owner. Sean Patton (37:21) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah Jason Hull (37:32) You know, I need them to be with me and enjoy it, right? And they need somebody that like me, that's crazy, that's willing to take some of the risks. They just don't realize they're working for a crazy person, right? So that values freedom more than safety. So yeah, but look, I love safety and security too. That's why I process documentation. I have systems that makes me feel safe. If I lose somebody, right? So we need all of these things. So I love, I love that you were pointing that out. ⁓ Where should we go from here? Sean Patton (37:42) Hahaha Yeah. Jason Hull (38:01) Like we're almost at the time and I love hearing the ⁓ how the military works because the military works its life or death. It's it's ⁓ and there's clear objectives and I feel like in business things get so fuzzy and there's so much BS. And when we hear it in terms of military, we're like, ⁓ duh, this would translate. I should do my business this way. Sean Patton (38:04) Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a good way to wrap in last couple of minutes is like, what are some key points there? think that what the military does, because not everything in the military is from personal experience translates perfectly over, right? But that there's certain things. Yeah, it's all the same. There are some similarities. I think that if there's an overarching word of why, and it's just true, Jason Hull (38:43) Sure, it's not all exactly the same, yeah. Sean Patton (38:58) military, good military units are able to accomplish the seemingly impossible tasks ⁓ is clarity, like extreme clarity and no nonsense around no clarity. And so whether that's clarity of mission, clarity of roles and responsibilities, who's doing what when and what are they committing to? There's so much... ⁓ Jason Hull (39:05) Yeah. Hmm. Sean Patton (39:26) sort of expectation or unsaid agreements that happen inside business, where we make assumptions about what we think other people understand or what they think success is or roles is. Instead of saying here's our clear mission, here's our outcomes, here's my role and responsibility, here's what I'm gonna own. I mean, the amount of times I work with a company or entrepreneur and we go in and they say, yeah, here are like the 12 things that are important before the next meeting, but there's no one's name next to it with a date. Jason Hull (39:28) Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like who? Who's responsible? Who's accountable? Yeah. Sean Patton (39:55) It's like, Hey, what'd we talk about last meeting? Who's doing that? Yeah. Who's taking, who's accountable. So I think they're very clear about like what role and responsibility do you have so that you can lean into that. So clarity around roles, responsibilities, clarity around mission, then clarity around, you know, end state. Like what does success look like for this? Those are. Jason Hull (40:14) What's the definition of done on this? How do we know this is accomplished? I love it. Sean Patton (40:19) Mm-hmm. And so I think if companies could really take that approach of clarity in those three areas, it could be transformative. Jason Hull (40:29) Totally agree. One of my mentors that really taught me operational stuff was a mentor named Alex Sharpen. And Alex would talk about outcome transparency and accountability. He was like a three-legged stool. And he said, there has to be a clear outcome. Like, who's responsible ⁓ is also, right? that's like outcome transparency, accountability. Accountability is who? What are we trying to accomplish is the outcome. And then what's the scoreboard? How do we measure success? How do we know if it's done? And he said he would watch billionaires and follow them around and they go into a meeting. They didn't know what was going on, what was being discussed, but there was a problem. He would just walk in and he would ask three questions and the problems were solved. Cool. What are we trying to accomplish? Okay. Who's responsible for this? Awesome. How do we know if it's done or not? And it was that simple. And then you walk out of the room, everyone's like, man, he's magic. So glad we have him. What a great leader. And I love it. Clarity is massive. one of the things, like a lot of businesses don't even have the clear role or job descriptions defined for their existing team members. If I went to, anyone listen to this, I went to your team member, ask yourself this question. And I asked them, what are you responsible to achieve on a weekly, monthly basis? What is your job? Sean Patton (41:27) Yeah. Jason Hull (41:52) What are your roles? What are you supposed to do? And then I went to the business owner. I went to you listening and said, what is their responsibility? What are these? I usually get two very different set of directions. But if you come to my team or hopefully some of my clients that I'm coaching and you ask that question, they would say, cool, let me pull up my document that is super clear that we review regularly. This is it. We've agreed on this. We're literally on the same page. And it's that simple. And so they know what outcomes they're responsible for. And the outcomes are more important than the responsibilities. So on our job descriptions, we have results. What results or expected accomplishments are there? so little things like that. One of the things I love saying lately is, this is one of my little phrases, is any action we take without clarity is a little bit wrong. Sometimes a lot, a lot wrong. Sean Patton (42:21) Yes. Mmm, I love that. I love that. Jason Hull (42:51) Yeah, and so that's dangerous. like the last thing you want to do in on the battlefield is just rush out with a lot of gusto guns a blazing with no plan and a lack of clarity. But in business, sometimes that's how we operate for shooting from the hip. We're like, Woo, yeah. Sean Patton (43:08) Yeah, it is. That's the thing is because of the mission that the military has, the culture demands extreme clarity. And because of the mission of businesses, people can get away with leakage and mistakes because, you know, it's not life or death. But if you treat your business like that, that's how you get to the next level of performance. Jason Hull (43:18) you Love it. Cool. Sean, awesome having you on. Always fun to chat with you. We have some good conversations. ⁓ This is really interesting to me. I love hearing how ⁓ this all works and the contrast with military and whatnot. You brought up some really great points that really made me think. How can people get in touch with you? Tell them what you do real quick and all that. Sean Patton (43:40) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. So you wanna, my personal site is SeanPatton.me. Super easy to find. I'm very active on LinkedIn. And I am a part of a larger firm called Novus Global, where we focus on creating meta performance leaders. A lot of the transformation we're talking about today. So yeah, LinkedIn and my website, easiest ways to get me. also the host of the No Limit Leadership Podcast. Please check that out and. Jason, you have a scheduled day. I'm excited to have you on that podcast in the future. Jason Hull (44:29) Yeah, I'm excited to be on that. That'll be great. It's been great having you. Cool. Thanks for being here. All right. Yeah, absolutely. So for those of you that are property management business owners and you felt maybe stuck, stagnant, you want to take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us at doorgrow.com for free training on how to get unlimited free leads. Text the word leads to 512-648-4608. Sean Patton (44:35) Thanks, Jason. Appreciate the opportunity. Jason Hull (44:57) Also join our free Facebook community just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com. And if you want tips, tricks, ideas, and to learn about our offers, subscribe to our newsletter by going to doorgrow.com slash subscribe. And if you found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review on wherever you saw this. We'd really appreciate it. And until next time, remember the slowest path to growth is to do it alone. So let's grow together. Bye everyone. All right, and we are out in five, four, three, two, one. Sean Patton (45:33) Thanks brother.

DGS 333: Unlocking New Thinking for Business Growth

When trying to grow your property management business, have you ever thought to yourself, "Man, it would be great if I just had more leads?" In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss the Leads Myth and how "just having more leads" will not actually help you grow your business. We talk about the importance of exposing yourself to something unique and different to escape your current rut of thinking. You'll Learn (00:00) Exploring Meow Wolf: An Immersive Experience (02:34) The Importance of Thinking Differently (05:36) Discovery and Exploration in Business (08:18) Unlocking Hidden Opportunities (09:59) The Joy of Problem-Solving in Business Quotables "Sometimes we just need to put ourselves in an environment in which we're going to be exposed to something unique, different, in order to get us out of our current rut of our current level of thinking." "Our current level of thinking is what's causing us to stay stuck or to stay trapped." "Business should be a problem that we enjoy working on, because I think that's the secret to happiness is to have a problem that's fun." Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/courses/mastermind] DoorGrow Academy [https://www.doorgrowacademy.com/] DoorGrow on YouTube [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCC1mGYT2Sw0LOe32hO_QdNg/featured] DoorGrowClub [https://doorgrow.com/] DoorGrowLive [https://doorgrowlive.com/] Transcript Jason & Sarah Hull (00:00) All right, welcome everybody to the DoorGrow show. So we're going to skip all the lengthy intro, just know DoorGrow is awesome and you should be working with us and we've helped hundreds of property managers grow their business. So we're going to do a quick episode today. So Sarah and I just got back from Las Vegas and one of the cool things we got to do, got to do a lot of cool things over there, go see some shows. But one of the cool things we went and did is Meow Wolf. So what is Meow Wolf? God only knows. I don't know how to explain this at all. It's a combination of like a museum, an art gallery installation, I don't know, an art exhibit maybe. ⁓ Sort of like an escape room. of. It's not like you're locked in there. you're out puzzles and Yeah, there's like puzzles along the way to figure out. And also there's a story. Yeah. So it's not, you you go through like an art exhibit and you just look at things. This is interactive, this is immersive. You are meant to touch things and interact with them. ⁓ And there's a whole story that you're trying to figure out and solve the mystery if you want to. If you don't want to do that part, then you don't have to do it. You can just walk through and go, wow, that's cool looking. So it's that. So Meow Wolf is- How would you explain it? I don't, I don't know. That's pretty good. That's why you make me explain it? Yeah. Okay. I just like watching you struggle. don't know. that's okay. That was on camera, ladies and gentlemen. Recorded. right. So- my evidence. No, she actually described it really well. So Meow Wolf, ⁓ I think they have like maybe five locations that like we've been to. This was our third one that we went This is our third. And each one is designed on the surface like something normal that we're used to, right? Like the one in Vegas is designed as a grocery store. Another one was a radio station and another one was a house, like a family's home. But as you dig into it, you can like open up things you didn't think you should be able to open that become better doors into secret areas. It gets really weird once you get past the surface level. and things get even stranger. And it's just, it's really kind of a magical place where you really get to focus on discovery and exploration. And it really gets you to think differently. And so we're like, what should we talk about on today's podcast? I was like, let's talk about Meow Wolf and how important it is to think differently or to expose ourselves to something new or different from what we've been doing. Cause this is what we do with our coaching clients. A lot of our stuff is very contrary to what they've been told or what they've been taught or ⁓ what they think they should be doing. And so we focus and get into, you know, different ideas, different ideas of how to do pricing from what everybody else is doing, different ideas of how to do growth and build these growth engines than everybody else is doing. And sometimes we just need to put ourselves in an environment in which we're going to be exposed to something unique, different. in order to get us out of our current rut of our current level of thinking. Because our current level of thinking is what's causing us to stay stuck or to stay trapped. And this is why I value a lot getting coaches, getting mentors, joining masterminds, joining programs, because it exposes us to new ideas and new things and gets us to think differently. And it challenges our current thinking, allows others to challenge our current thinking. And they can see things that we can't see because we're too close to the fire sometimes to see it. And I can tell you how many times I've had one of my coaches give me some advice or point out something should have been super obvious to me. And I thought that's exactly what I would have told the client to do. And I'm just like, just kind of kicking myself. And but it's good medicine and it's really helpful. like, yeah, that makes sense. Let's do that. So, um, yeah, we'll feel like you might open up the refrigerator in the house and find out it is actually a hallway that leads into a whole different area. Um, if you're in the grocery store, you might open up one of the, the refrigerator freezer door sections and the whole thing opens, including what you see in the glass door. And then you can walk into a whole different area. And so, It's just, there's multiple floors in each of the ones we've been in. there's like stairways and elevators and it's just pretty wild. And the deeper you get into it, the weirder it all gets. And it gets really, really weird. And so it's totally outside of your current normal reality. In fact, that's kind of the idea between all the three we've been to is you're kind of stepping into, there's always this theme of alternate realities. and multiple realities and sometimes weird alternate life forms and non-human creatures and things are just really strange. it's really fun to get into because you don't know what to expect. so what I thought is brilliant is it puts you into a state that we usually only experience as children, which is this state of discovery and this joy of exploration and of discovery. And I feel like that's where we should be as business owners, but business gets hard. and we learn through pain and we have a lot of trauma as business owners. And so we start avoiding, we start avoiding like new things and discovery and getting excited about making changes. And this is something I think we've been really good at at DoorGrow is bringing this newness, almost like they're starting their business fresh with a new lens and a new set of, you know, ideas to... look at their business and it's like starting a business, which is over again, which is the exciting part. And so that's my challenge to everybody listening is make sure to expose yourself to new ideas. It doesn't have to be us. It doesn't have to be door grow. I think we're the best in the industry at doing this. We're very different, very unique, ⁓ but get something, get something ⁓ that's going to inject some new ideas and some new life into what you're doing. So yeah, so that was my that was kind of my thought or take on it. I think one of the cool things about Meow Wolf is as you're kind of walking through it, there's these seemingly normal items or objects that don't function as you would think they would. They're actually a portal or a secret door or there's more to it than you would think. For example, the first one we went to in the house, you're walking through and you see the laundry room. And there's normal items that would be in a laundry room, like a washer and a dryer. And I think they had a sink and some detergent and things like that. And if you didn't ever stop to look or really stop to explore, you would have looked at it for surface value and went, OK, washer and dryer. Yeah, cool. Laundry room, whatever. Let's move on to the next thing because I don't know why we're supposed to be in here. if you actually stopped to explore it and you opened the washer and the dryer, they were both actually this way, it was one was a slide and one was like this tunnel that you had to like crawl through. You remember like when McDonald's used to be fun as a kid and you'd have all the like nets and the tubes and slides and all, it's that. It's not that extensive, but so one was a slide and one was like this tunnel that you crawl through and then it takes you to a whole. different area and a whole different room and that's kind of their alternate universe is back through that way and that's one of the many ways that you can reach that alternate. But if you don't actually stop to explore it and really check it out instead of just looking at it and thinking ⁓ this is useless okay why is there a washer and dryer here and that's stupid well then you would miss the whole other part. that you would only find if you explore it. So really, it's like this whole secret world back there and this portal that can transport you to somewhere else. And I think there's a lot of things in life that are like that. How many times have we looked at something, I do this all the time because I'm a J and Myers-Briggs, I look at something and I go, useless, stupid, not worth my time. This is an important, I don't need this. I don't need to worry about this. We all do it in different ways and in business, it's one of them. Right? How many times did you hear an idea or research a tool or you know think about something, doing something a different way and then go, yeah I'm not gonna do that because on the surface all you were seeing was washer and dryer and perhaps you failed to see what was deeper is yeah it's a washer and dryer but there's so much more that you didn't even check out, you didn't even get to learn about because you immediately brushed it off. You know, I realized that ⁓ I think that's what DoorGrow is for a lot of clients. Like we look like the normal thing on the surface. People are like, yeah, they focus on growth. They probably do some sort of lead gen service or marketing or something. But when they start asking questions or talking to us, they start going, hey, this is pretty unique. This is different. They're telling me like they're explaining to me why what everybody else is telling me to do doesn't actually work or should be different. And when people join our program and get into it, they're always like surprised. There's so much available, so many new ideas, so many things they can fix or tweak in their business, ways that could work less ways they could generate more revenue. And, ⁓ and they're always surprised because they've been to all the conferences. They've learned all the stuff that is generally out there, they think. And so, yeah, we give them that. Aladdin experience, all new. Right. Maybe I'm not. No, it's time to end. A whole new world. All right. So, yeah. So, yeah. So that's kind of, you know, like there's this state of wonder learning and that's what business I think should be. Business should be a problem that we enjoy working on, because I think that's the secret to happiness is to have a problem where that's fun. It's a challenge going through and figuring out all the spaces and how to reach all the areas and me. It's a challenge, but it's fun. Yeah, it's really enjoyable. And now I want to go visit all the other ones that we haven't seen yet. So we might plan trips just to go see these because it's just so interesting and unique. Yeah. Cool. So that's that's our message today. And so we'll go ahead and wrap up. But if you are struggling to think differently or get new ideas, you feel like you know it all, maybe reach out to DoorGro and let us blow your mind a little bit. You can check us out at door.com.