The Athletics of Business

Measuring the Transformational Impact of Coaching with Kyle Craighead & Joshua Childs

What if the most powerful thing a coach does never shows up in a box score? Every athletic department tracks wins and losses. Many track all-state selections, district championships, and tournament appearances. But the metrics that often matter most — the ones tied to connection, resilience, attendance, joy, accountability, academic growth, and long-term student development — have largely gone unmeasured. Until now. In this episode of The Athletics of Business Podcast, Ed Molitor is joined by Kyle Craighead and Joshua Childs to talk about the transformational impact coaches have on student athletes and how data is finally helping bring that impact to light. Their work gives coaches, athletic directors, and school leaders a way to measure what many have always felt but have not always been able to prove: great coaching reaches far beyond wins, championships, and the scoreboard. Kyle and Joshua unpack how the Coaching Effects Survey helps uncover the hidden metrics of coaching, why fun is one of the most overlooked indicators of student engagement, and what the data reveals about the coaches who challenge athletes most effectively. The answer may surprise you. It is not simply the toughest coaches who create the most growth. It is the ones who connect first, build trust, create structure, and then challenge their athletes from a place of care. The conversation also explores one of the biggest issues facing youth sports today: the risk of pricing out and excluding the very kids who could benefit most from having a great coach in their lives. Kyle and Joshua make a powerful case that athletics should not be viewed as an extracurricular activity. It is a co-curricular experience that plays a critical role in shaping young people, building life skills, and keeping students connected to school, community, and purpose. This is a conversation about coaching, culture, data, and what it really means to measure success. Because the true impact of a coach is not always found in the final score. Sometimes, it is found in who a student becomes because someone believed in them, challenged them, and helped them see what was possible. OUR GUESTS Kyle Craighead is the President & Chief Product Officer for EverRise. With over 15 years of experience in public education as a teacher, coach, athletic director, school administrator, and district administrator, he has had the opportunity to serve various grade bands and demographics in the K-12 setting. Kyle has now brought his school-system experience to EverRise the last three years to measure the importance and effectiveness of key relationships, such as teachers with students, coaches with athletes, and administrators with teachers. He has studied the effects of interim assessments and modifying instructional practices that lead to improved outcomes on summative assessments. Kyle is an adjunct professor at Lipscomb University, teaching classes on Strategic Change, Instructional Leadership, Coaching for Change, and Collaborative Leadership in Schools. Kyle is dedicated to improving the educational and athletic experiences of students, student-athletes, teachers, coaches, and all educational leaders. Joshua Childs is the Senior Advisor of Research and Associate Professor of Educational Leadership and Policy at The University of Texas at Austin. His research examines the role of inter-organizational networks and cross-sector collaborations to address complex educational issues. He also investigates collaborative approaches involving organizations (local, state, and national) that have the potential to improve academic achievement and opportunities for students in urban and rural schools. This includes ways to improve student engagement and attendance in school, interscholastic athletics, and expanding educational opportunities through concentrated policy design and implementation. Joshua is a Co-PI (Principal Investigator) of the Expanding Computing Education Pathways Alliance, a consortium of 30 states focused on broadening participation in computer science. A former Division I athlete, Joshua graduated from Plano West High School (TX). WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: * Why the most meaningful impact of coaching often goes unmeasured * How student-athlete feedback reveals what coaches truly make possible * The six pillars that shape trust, growth, connection, and performance * Why connection and psychological safety must come before challenge * How great coaches create accountability without fear * The overlooked role fun plays in athlete engagement and development * How data can strengthen coaching without becoming punitive * Why athletics should be viewed as a co-curricular part of education * How coaches can help reduce absenteeism and improve student outcomes * Why mentorship may be the most valuable outcome sports provide RESOURCES & LINKS Kyle Craighead & Joshua Childs * Website - EverRise [https://everrise.ai/] * LinkedIn - Kyle Craighead [https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyle-craighead] * LinkedIn - Joshua Childs [https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-c-a5a8a11a8] Ed Molitor * LinkedIn - Ed Molitor [https://www.linkedin.com/in/themolitorgroup/] * Website - coeffex.com [https://coeffex.com/podcast] * YouTube Channel - The Athletics of Business [https://www.youtube.com/@theathleticsofbusiness] Timestamps * [00:00] Dynamic Intro * [01:40] Welcoming Kyle Craighead & Joshua Childs * [02:17] EverRise's mission and measuring real coach impact * [03:52] The Coaching Effects Survey explained * [07:50] The six pillars: Connection, psychological safety, structure, communication, skill development, and challenge * [10:35] Thought experiment: The coaches who impacted your life * [13:30] Kyle's journey using these tools as an administrator * [18:12] Powerful story of a football coach's emotional response to his data * [24:36] How connection leads to better challenge and resilience * [31:28] How data drives daily habits and continuous improvement * [35:54] Speaking the language of decision-makers with data * [43:40] Joshua's journey and passion for expanding access to sports * [48:22] Where to learn more about EverRise * [55:50] Final thoughts and call to action

Soccer Meets America: Leadership, Culture, and the Stories That Shape Us with Phil Wall

What happens when a sport's history is bigger, deeper, and more culturally revealing than the story most people have been told? Soccer has always been part of the American sports landscape. Union soldiers played it during the Civil War. Crowds of 46,000 showed up for soccer in New York in the 1920s. Pelé brought nearly 200 journalists with him when he played for the New York Cosmos. But the real story is not just about soccer. It is about how culture is built, how momentum grows, how narratives take shape, and how the stories we choose to tell can either limit what people see or expand what they believe is possible. In this episode of The Athletics of Business Podcast, Ed Molitor welcomes back filmmaker Phil Wall to talk about his latest project, the three-part Roku docuseries Soccer Meets America. What started as a project without a personal hook became a discovery process. Phil uncovered a rich and surprising history of soccer in the United States while exploring a bigger question: what happens when we stop asking whether something matters and start looking at the impact it has already made? He also opens up about the leadership lessons behind the camera: directing a larger production team, learning to delegate, admitting what he did not know, and trusting others to help bring the vision to life. The conversation then moves into one of Phil's greatest strengths: storytelling. He shares why the best stories are not about the teller, but the audience. For leaders, coaches, and business professionals, that is where the real lesson lives. This is a conversation about culture, leadership, humility, and the power of stories to shape how people see themselves, their teams, and what is possible next. OUR GUEST Phil Wall is an award-winning writer, director, and showrunner working across features, series, and commercials. His work is rooted in nonfiction storytelling, with an interest in character-driven stories across scripted, documentary, and hybrid forms. He is the showrunner, director, and writer of Soccer Meets America, a three-part docuseries produced with Vox Creative in association with Verizon and now streaming on The Roku Channel. His feature documentaries include The Book Keepers, winner of both the Jury Prize and Audience Award for Best Documentary Feature at the Austin Film Festival, and The Standard, which debuted at #4 on the iTunes documentary chart. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: * How Phil Wall uncovered the deeper story behind Soccer Meets America * Why soccer's roots in America go far beyond the 1994 World Cup * How the 1994 World Cup helped shape the future of professional soccer in the U.S. * Why St. Louis became a powerful example of how local culture is built * How media, technology, and pop culture helped bring soccer into the mainstream * Why Phil believed soccer's place in America no longer needed to be defended * How the next wave of U.S. soccer challenges us to rethink what success really means * What leading a larger creative team taught Phil about delegation, trust, and clarity * Why admitting what you don't know can build stronger trust as a leader * How great storytelling starts with the audience, not the storyteller RESOURCES & LINKS Phil Wall * Website: philwall.film [https://philwall.film/] * Watch Soccer Meets America [https://therokuchannel.roku.com/details/9f8b13db3f1aa1430fafddcf262302a8/soccer-meets-america] - Available now on the Roku Series * GORUCK: www.goruck.com [https://www.goruck.com] * Episodes 135 [https://coeffex.com/podcast/pour-passion-into-process-with-phil-wall-part-1] and 136 [https://coeffex.com/podcast/pour-passion-into-the-process-part-2-with-phil-wall] - Phil Wall's earlier appearance on The Athletics of Business Ed Molitor * LinkedIn - Ed Molitor [https://www.linkedin.com/in/themolitorgroup/] * Website - coeffex.com [https://coeffex.com/podcast] * YouTube Channel - The Athletics of Business [https://www.youtube.com/@theathleticsofbusiness] References * The Two Escobars [https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1493943/] - ESPN 30 for 30 documentary (written by Nick Sprague) * The Book Keepers [https://www.philwall.film/the-book-keepers] - Phil Wall's documentary following his father after his mother's death * The Standard [https://www.philwall.film/the-standard] - Phil Wall's previous project * The FIFA+ app [https://www.fifa.com/originals] - Where to find classic World Cup documentaries * Telstar [https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/communications-satellite-telstar/nasm_A20070113000] - The first international transatlantic broadcast satellite (1962 Timestamps * [00:00] Dynamic intro * [01:28] Welcoming Phil Wall back to the podcast * [02:13] The origin story behind Soccer Meets America * [03:26] How personal relationships helped launch the project * [05:11] Discovering the forgotten history of soccer in America * [06:19] The World Cup bid that changed everything * [07:19] St. Louis and America's early soccer culture * [10:23] Soccer's rise, disappearance, and reemergence in American media * [14:31] Commercialization, broadcasting, and soccer's unique challenges * [16:23] The business side of building professional soccer * [17:52] Technology, television, and the growth of the sport * [19:43] The untold story of women's soccer in America * [21:20] The future of soccer heading into the 2026 World Cup * [31:23] Why soccer no longer needs validation * [33:27] How this project stretched Phil as a filmmaker * [35:37] Learning to lead and collaborate on a larger team * [38:24] Where to watch Soccer Meets America * [39:21] The fundamentals of great storytelling * [45:55] Final reflections and closing thoughts

Yes Your Way to Success: What Endurance Teaches Us About Leadership with Gavin Mlinar

Most people spend their lives trying to avoid failure. Gavin Mlinar has built his life around walking straight into it. From leaving home to pursue freestyle skiing as a teenager, to returning after multiple knee injuries to earn a starting role on the football field, to walking away from a successful executive career without a clear plan for what came next, Gavin has repeatedly chosen uncertainty over comfort. And more often than not, those decisions began with a simple phrase: "Yes, I'll figure it out." In this episode of The Athletics of Business Podcast, Ed Molitor is joined by Gavin Mlinar, a former Wall Street equity research founder, VP at a Japanese company, and two-time finisher of the 29,029 Everesting challenge. Together, they explore the surprising connections between endurance athletics, leadership, and the art of saying "yes" before you figure it out. Gavin shares his journey from Division III football and the USA Junior Olympic ski team to corporate leadership, startup life, and the humbling world of 36-hour vertical climbing challenges. He opens up about fainting before lunch on his first attempt, ignoring his coaches for 20 weeks, and finally finishing under the worst weather conditions in event history. But the real throughline? A philosophy he learned from his father, a 747 pilot who treated everyone like they were in his home: lead with help, and let the rewards take care of themselves. Because success isn't about controlling outcomes. It's about enjoying the process, embracing toddler logic, and showing up for others without expecting anything in return. OUR GUEST Gavin Mlinar is the CEO and Founding Member of Blacklisted Consulting, a sourcing and procurement consulting firm that helps organizations save money while optimizing the way they buy goods and services. A former Wall Street Equity Analyst and Investment Banker, Gavin has leveraged his negotiating and communication skills, industry expertise, and passion for problem-solving into a successful career in sourcing, procurement, and supply chain leadership. Throughout his career, he has negotiated large, complex, multi-million and multi-billion-dollar agreements with many of the world's leading IT, Professional Services, and Corporate Services suppliers, helping organizations drive efficiency, accelerate growth, and achieve significant cost savings. But Gavin's journey has been guided by a philosophy that extends far beyond business: say YES, then figure it out. That mindset has shaped everything from earning a starting spot on his high school varsity football team without a reputation, to competing on the USA Junior Olympic skiing team, to launching multiple businesses and leading teams through change and uncertainty. A husband of 19 years, proud father of two, and lifelong believer in growth over comfort, Gavin brings a practical, relatable perspective to leadership and performance. One of his proudest accomplishments was completing the 29029 Everesting Challenge on his third attempt after failing twice—a powerful reminder that failure is only final when you stop showing up. Whether negotiating billion-dollar contracts, leading organizations through transformation, or speaking to audiences about leadership and resilience, Gavin's message remains consistent: success is rarely about having all the answers. It's about having the courage to take the next step, learn along the way, and keep moving forward. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: * Why failure is often learning in disguise * Lessons from elite athletics that translate directly into leadership and business * How endurance challenges reveal strengths and blind spots under pressure * The importance of listening beyond simply hearing words * How feedback loops accelerate growth and performance * Why preparation matters more than motivation during difficult challenges * How leaders learn to embrace diverse perspectives and different motivations * What toddler logic teaches us about learning, resilience, and persistence * Why relationships create opportunities that strategy alone cannot * How serving others first can become a powerful business advantage RESOURCES & LINKS Gavin Mlinar * Website - http://yesyourway.com [http://yesyourway.com] * LinkedIn -https://www.linkedin.com/in/gavin-mlinar-2295b83/ * Blog: https://yesyourway.com/blogs/one-more-ascent * Book: https://www.amazon.com/Yes-Your-Way-Success-Dont/dp/B0FC5M9GHQ [https://www.amazon.com/Yes-Your-Way-Success-Dont/dp/B0FC5M9GHQ] Ed Molitor * LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/themolitorgroup/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/themolitorgroup/] * Website - https://coeffex.com/podcast [https://coeffex.com/podcast] * YouTube Channel - The Athletics of Business - https://www.youtube.com/@theathleticsofbusiness [https://www.youtube.com/@theathleticsofbusiness] Timestamps * [00:00] Dynamic intro * [01:35] Meet Gavin Mlinar * [02:35] Building businesses and embracing entrepreneurship from an early age * [04:00] Learning communication through cold-calling and rejection * [05:07] From freestyle skiing to collegiate football * [09:48] Choosing between athletic dreams and practical realities * [12:52] The "Say Yes and Figure It Out" mindset * [13:50] COVID, burnout, and a life-changing turning point * [15:40] Discovering the 29,029 Everesting challenge * [18:39] The first endurance challenge and a humbling setback * [21:31] Missing the lessons hidden in plain sight * [22:42] Heart rate training and endurance fundamentals * [25:19] Why failure became one of Gavin's greatest teachers * [27:44] Patience, listening, and slowing down * [29:10] Leadership lessons from managing people with different motivations * [31:27] Toddler logic and the power of continuous learning * [33:49] Building systems, feedback loops, and preparation habits * [36:37] Learning from mistakes and improving performance * [38:17] Family challenges, Alzheimer's, and staying focused * [40:14] Finishing the challenge and trusting the process * [41:46] The success of Say Yes and Figure It Out * [42:19] Leading with generosity and helping others first * [43:12] The influence of Gavin's father and treating people with respect * [46:55] How helping others unexpectedly created new opportunities * [49:20] Final reflections and closing thoughts

Captain: The Athlete's Guide to Being an Exceptional Team Leader with John O'Sullivan and Dr. Jerry Lynch

What if the best captain on your team is not the loudest, most talented, or most popular player? For John O'Sullivan and Dr. Jerry Lynch, true captaincy is not about status. It is about skill, choice, relationships, and the daily behaviors that help a team become more connected, accountable, and resilient. In this episode of The Athletics of Business, Ed Molitor is joined by John and Jerry to discuss their new book, Captain: The Athlete's Guide to Being an Exceptional Leader. Together, they unpack why leadership in sports is often misunderstood, why teams should stop automatically handing captaincy to the best player, and why every athlete has the ability to develop leadership from the inside out. John and Jerry explore what great captains actually do: they build trust, model the standard, serve their teammates, communicate with courage, and protect the culture when things get hard. They also explain why influence is relational, not positional, and why the most effective leaders are often the ones willing to do the unseen work. From self-awareness and servant leadership to tough conversations, kindness, accountability, and gratitude, this conversation is a powerful reminder that leadership is not something you wait to be given. It is something you choose to practice every day. OUR GUESTS John O' Sullivan John O'Sullivan is an internationally known TEDx Speaker and the founder of the Changing the Game Project, which he started in 2012. He is the author of two #1 Bestselling books, Changing the Game and Every Moment Matters, and a leading youth sports blogger, while being a host of the Way of Champions Podcast, one of the top-rated podcasts in the world for coaches. Former collegiate and professional soccer player, and has coached for over 20 years on the youth, high school, and college levels. He has consulted with US Olympic Committee, US Soccer, USA Football, US Lacrosse, USA Swimming, Ireland Rugby, Aussie Rules Football, and many more John is on the National Advisory Board for the Positive Coaching Alliance and the National Association for Physical Literacy. Dr. Jerry Lynch Jerry first learned about extraordinary performance and excellence as a nationally ranked competitive athlete sponsored by Nike, running world-class times from 5,000 meters to the marathon, setting an American record in the half-marathon, winning a National Championship, and many other races against athletes half his age. He took what he learned about himself and life from his competitive days and parlayed it into a dynamic, successful career helping athletes and coaches in all sports to use his performance and leadership strategies to up their game and discover the best version of themselves. Dr. Lynch has been recognized as one of the top five in his profession nationwide. He has worked with teams, coaches, and athletes in the NBA, Pro Lacrosse, Major League Soccer, with men's and women's basketball, lacrosse, soccer, tennis, golf, and other sports at the universities of North Carolina, Duke, Maryland, California, Syracuse, Stanford, Harvard, and Middlebury. Dr. Lynch is the author of 18 books in over 10 languages and the founder and director of WAY OF CHAMPIONS, a human potential and performance consulting group helping others master the deeper inner game for sports, business, and life. Jerry is a dynamic, entertaining, inspirational, provocative, and humorous teacher and speaker with topics on leadership, coaching, team culture building, winning the relationship game, and core value development. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: * Why captaincy is a skill that can be taught, practiced, and developed. * Why the best player is not always the best leader on the team. * How coaches and teammates can identify real leaders through behaviors, traits, and trust. * Why influence comes from relationships, not titles or positional power. * How captains serve as the bridge between coaches, teammates, and the team culture. * Why great leaders must learn to have hard conversations with courage and respect. * The difference between being liked, being respected, being nice, and being kind. * Why self-awareness is the foundation of exceptional leadership. * How elite athletes like Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant modeled servant leadership. * Why gratitude, joy, and service can elevate both leadership and performance. RESOURCES & LINKS John O' Sullivan & Dr. Jerry Lynch * Website: https://changingthegameproject.com/ [https://changingthegameproject.com/] * Website: www.wayofchampions.com [http://www.wayofchampions.com] * Get the Book: Captain: The Athlete's Guide to Being an Exceptional Team Leader [https://amzn.to/4ubBg8Z] * Way of Champions Podcast on Apple Podcast [https://apple.co/2QuWfVb] * Jerry's LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-jerry-lynch-www-wayofchampions-com-13aa149/] * Jhon's LinkedIn [https://www.linkedin.com/in/coachjohnosullivan/] Ed Molitor * LinkedIn: Ed Molitor [https://www.linkedin.com/in/themolitorgroup/] * Website: CoEffex [https://coeffex.com/podcast] * YouTube Channel: The Athletics of Business [https://www.youtube.com/@theathleticsofbusiness] TIMESTAMPS ● 00:01:07 Why winning takes more than talent ● 00:02:00 Introducing Captain: The Athlete's Guide to Being an Exceptional Leader ● 00:03:10 Why teams often choose captains for the wrong reasons ● 00:05:24 Why captaincy should be treated as a skill ● 00:10:08 Why captains are connectors between coaches and teammates ● 00:11:53 Why influence comes from relationships ● 00:14:45 The hardest conversations captains must learn to have ● 00:16:00 Why respect matters more than being liked ● 00:19:15 The three-part structure of Captain ● 00:26:44 Why self-awareness is the competitive advantage ● 00:33:45 The difference between being nice and being kind ● 00:39:18 Tim Duncan and the power of leading by example ● 00:42:37 How Kobe Bryant learned to bring teammates along ● 00:45:36 Where to find the book, podcast, and leadership resources

The Human Side of Leadership: Building a Culture of Purpose-Driven Performance with Jeff Schaffnit

What changes when the work you lead is deeply personal? For Jeff Schaffnit, his career in the pharmaceutical industry is directly connected to his son, Carter, who was born with severe hemophilia. That personal experience shaped not only the work Jeff chose to pursue, but the kind of leader he strives to be. In this episode of The Athletics of Business, Ed Molitor and Jeff dive into what it takes to build a culture where purpose and performance strengthen one another. Jeff shares why patient stories serve as a North Star for his team, how he evaluates talent through the lens of heart, mind, and execution, and why great teammates put the patient and the team ahead of individual recognition. He also explores the human side of leadership: building trust, calling out silos, coaching instead of simply telling, developing future leaders, creating space for vulnerability, and helping people manage their time and energy in demanding environments. As AI continues to influence healthcare and business, Jeff offers a powerful reminder: technology may change how the work gets done, but the future still belongs to leaders and organizations that keep humanity at the center. OUR GUEST Jeff Schaffnit is the General Manager and Head of Rare Blood Disorders at Sanofi, where he leads work focused on serving patients and families impacted by rare blood disorders. With more than 20 years of experience in the pharmaceutical industry, Jeff is known for his ability to build and inspire high-performing teams, design effective commercial organizations, and translate complex challenges into clear, pragmatic strategies that deliver results. His leadership approach combines a strong strategic lens with disciplined execution, enabling teams to perform in dynamic and highly regulated environments. His connection to this work is deeply personal. Jeff's son, Carter, was born with severe hemophilia, an experience that helped shape Jeff's career and continues to influence the way he leads. For Jeff, the mission is not abstract. It is about helping patients live fuller lives and building teams that understand the responsibility and privilege of serving them. At his core, Jeff believes that performance is built through people—through clarity, alignment, trust, and a shared commitment to purpose. And ultimately, the true measure of success is the impact that work has on patients' lives. Jeff holds an MBA from the Northwestern University Kellogg School of Management and a Bachelor of Science in Chemical Engineering from the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE: * How Jeff's son's hemophilia diagnosis shaped his career and personal mission. * Why patient stories keep teams connected to the meaning behind their work. * How Jeff builds culture around purpose-driven performance. * Why he looks for heart, mind, and execution when building a team. * What great teammates understand about collaboration, ego, and accountability. * Why trust begins with listening, especially when leading new people or teams. * The difference between coaching someone and simply telling them what to do. * How leaders can model wellness, boundaries, and energy management. * Why Jeff's team encourages people to "Find Your Five" and reclaim meaningful time. * Why vulnerability has been one of Jeff's most important leadership growth areas. * How leaders can transform while performing without losing sight of the human impact. * Why a leader's most important job is developing the team. * Why Jeff believes the future of leadership and healthcare must remain human first. RESOURCES & LINKS Jeff Schaffnit * LinkedIn: Jeff Schaffnit [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-schaffnit-b006a948] * Sanofi: Sanofi US [https://www.sanofi.us/en] * Article: To Drive Value in Hematology Research, We Must Prioritize the Patient Experience [https://www.ajmc.com/view/to-drive-value-in-hematology-research-we-must-prioritize-the-patient-experience] Ed Molitor * LinkedIn: Ed Molitor [https://www.linkedin.com/in/themolitorgroup/] * Website: CoEffex [https://coeffex.com/podcast] * YouTube Channel: The Athletics of Business [https://www.youtube.com/@theathleticsofbusiness] TIMESTAMPS * 00:01:19 What gets Jeff out of bed every morning * 00:02:18 Jeff's personal connection to hemophilia * 00:04:40 Why patient stories anchor the team's purpose * 00:06:31 AI in healthcare and the importance of human connection * 00:07:46 Building culture through heart, strategy, and execution * 00:09:55 What makes someone a great teammate * 00:10:53 Calling out silos and protecting the culture * 00:12:51 How patient stories bring culture to life * 00:16:08 The damage caused by micromanagement * 00:17:06 How leaders build trust with new team members * 00:24:42 Owning your mindset as a leader * 00:32:20 Why vulnerability does not always come naturally * 00:35:00 Why a leader's real job is developing the team * 00:37:16 Development is a two-way street * 00:38:28 Advice Jeff would give his younger self * 00:39:54 Building meaningful networks and mentorships * 00:40:50 Why the future of leadership is still human first